Influence of Islam on Rambam(Maimonides)

Conversation started May 20, 2013 at 18:53.

Daniel

May 20, 2013 18:53

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob you are right that Rambam opposed Jews becoming Muslim

but his thought was also influenced by Muslim thought

Nobody can live in a place and interact with the non-Jewish residents of that place and not be affected by it at all

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Yes that influence is called reading Islamic sources and writing against them although he couldn't do it so vividly because he would be killed especially as he was the main Doctor physician of Egypt and worked in the sultans house

However, he added nothing new to jewish thought or religion

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I'm not suggesting that he added anything new

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Then what was the influence?

Daniel

I'm suggesting that his interpretation of Torah was influenced by an Islamic version of Aristotelianism

outside influence does not invalidate thought

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Because Ashkenazim were influenced by the Christian empire in Italy n Constantinople and indeed added new things because they lost ther mesorah

Daniel

May 20, 2013 18:58

Rather, it provides another angle from which to look at it

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I'm not talking about Ashkenazim, and I prefer that you not needlessly slander them

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Not true because muslims believe in shaitans and dibuk while rambam doesn't

he says its not true n they don't exist

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Did I ever say that Rambam is a Muslim or that Rambam believes everything that Muslims believe?

It's not an attack on Rambam to say that he was influenced by the culture around him. That's something praiseworthy

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

So I'm waiting for proof on him being influenced by muslims. Because there is nothing there

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I've already sent you this link which is an entire research paper dedicated to answering that

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I can give a research paper saying holocauast fake

there are many claims bout rambam because he is famous throughout the witls

Daniel

May 20, 2013 19:02

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Ok, so why don't you read the paper?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

for. Arabs n Jews

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Well if you will just reject any proof that I give, I cannot argue with you

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

I know the claims already. They are coming from an Ashkenazi way of thinking because they are assuming Ashkenazi is real deal

You are not giving good proof

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob That is a secular research paper

Has nothing to do with ashkenazi/sephardi

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob What would be an example of good proof?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

i can give you hHachom faur's papers and you compare the. To what is in your paper

iys day m night

Thas the point it's secular n looking at "mainstream" judaism which is predinently Ashkenazi based m comparing it to rbam

Daniel

May 20, 2013 19:06

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Ok here's the problem. You reject secular papers. You will reject Ashkenazi opinions because you think they are corrupted. The only opinions you will accept are the ones that already agree with you

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Good proof is seforim from that time period showing rambam used Muslim philosophy or was influenced by it

Mill a

Ill accept Ashkenazi proof as long as its good

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob What is good?

Just something that agrees with you

I can't argue with you

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Good research from that time period

Daniel

It is common sense to say that he was influenced by Islam because he lived among Muslims. The burden of proof that he wasn't is on you

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

accepting doesn't mean agreeing

The burden of proof is on me when you give me good sources for a claim

You need to define in what way he was influenced by islam

if it was changing holochoth then bring proof. If it was commentaries on torah then bring proof also he didn't write commentaries on torah

if it was learning the gamoro then bring proof because he obviously learned like the Jaonim since they agree with what he says in most places

Daniel

May 20, 2013 19:12

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob I'm not saying that he changed halacha. I'm saying that his philosophy was influenced by Islam

Which likely had an effect on his interpretation of halacha

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

No it was influenced only by Aristotle just like Aristotle influenced the Arab Muslim n Christians of that era

and he only took Aristotle to a certain point everything else he dropped

midla

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob Why is the idea that Rambam was affected by Islam so troubling for you, but the idea that he was affected by Aristotle is not?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

philosophers in Egypt no matters of religion were going on philosophy n less bout religion

only rambam incorporated the ideas he learned from Aristotle the rest were saying religion didn't matter

It's not bothering being proof then I will see

Daniel

Q: Was Rambam affected by Islam?

This question is inspired by an ongoing conversation in chat, a representative bit of it beginning here. Was Rambam's philosophy affected in any way by Islamic culture or religion? If so, could that influence have influenced his interpretation of halacha?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

mad for now he n the rest of the religious scholars in those areas were influenced by Aristotle. Rbam rejected Aristotle idea about HaShem and called him n apikorus but islam accepted it

same with Christian

Conversation ended May 20, 2013 at 19:17.

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