Conversation started May 30, 2013 at 3:17.
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:17
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob The problem is that ,the fatwas in almud have become the part of torah
@Ali not everything in the talmud is fatwas
@Ali things rabbis said in the talmud are indeed torah
Ali
Ali
11 hours ago, by Ali
(Rabbinic))Torah=Torah+Talmud(sanhedrin+rambam+rashi+....)
you are not understanding what torah or sanhadreen or rambam or rashi is
lol
Ali
Ali
The traditional meaning of Torah is Tanach alone
no the traditional meaning of torah is torah
nach is not torah
if you mean a literal translation
@Ali you need to learn more than talking
all you do is talk and talk but you dont know basics
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:20
So people at the time of moses pbuh did not have the complete torah right
?
they didnt have nach
nach came later..
nach is not torah
nach is nach
thats the difference between islam and judaism
islam only has quran hadeeths and fatwas
Ali
Ali
Torah (; , "Instruction", "Teaching") is a central concept in the Jewish tradition. It has a range of meanings: it can most specifically mean the first five books of the Tanakh, it can mean this, plus the rabbinic commentaries on it, it can mean the continued narrative from Genesis to the end of the Tanakh, it can even mean the totality of Jewish teaching and practice. Common to all these meanings, Torah consists of the foundational narrative of the Jewish people: their call into being by Yahweh (euphemistically called HaShem by Jews and denoted in English translations of the Bible as t...
@Ali It has a range of meanings: it can most specifically mean the first five books of the Tanakh,
did you read that?
you answered your own question
Ali
Ali
So it does have the tanach
@Ali .....................
@Ali do you even know the books of the tanach?
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:23
Dont you see the Karaite Jews have the tanach as their torah?
@Ali that statement is so bad that i dont even want to talk to you lol
@Ali no one has tanach as their torah
they have Torah as their Torah
and Nach as their Nach
Ali
Ali
Ofcourse I mean the five books
do you know what nach means
....
Ali
Ali
Karaite Judaism or Karaism ( or ; ") is a Jewish movement characterized by the recognition of the Tanakh alone as its supreme legal authority in Halakha (Jewish religious law) and theology. It is distinct from mainstream Rabbinic Judaism, which considers the Oral Torah, the legal decisions of the Sanhedrin as codified in the Talmud, and subsequent works to be authoritative interpretations of the Torah. Karaites maintain that all of the divine commandments handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah, without additional Oral Law or explanation. As a result, Karaite Jews ...
@Ali dont dodge the question
what means tanach
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:29
The Tanakh (, or ; also Tenakh, Tenak, Tanach) is a name used in Judaism for the canon of the Hebrew Bible. The Tanakh is also known as the Masoretic Text or the Miqra. The name is an acronym formed from the initial Hebrew letters of the Masoretic Text's three traditional subdivisions: The Torah ("Teaching", also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")—hence TaNaKh. The name "Miqra" (מקרא), meaning "that which is read", is an alternative Hebrew term for the Tanakh. The books of the Tanakh were relayed with an accompanying oral tradition pas...
and thats according to the Jews
@Ali stop linking me wiki and give me a definition from yourself
if you depend on wiki then you obviously dont know anything
Ali
Ali
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob so is what the wiki saying is obviously wrong?
@Ali ill be waiting for an answer without wiki ty
Ali
Ali
The problem is that the cannonification of the tanakh(ie what is included and what is not) is itself controversial. So what can I do but link to wiki which summarizes it
Formal closure of the canon has often been ascribed to Rabbinic Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD. Heinrich Graetz proposed in 1871 that it was concluded at a Council of Jamnia (or Yavne in Hebrew), some time in the period 70–90 AD. However, Rabbinical writings seem to indicate that certain books were disputed as accepted canon (such as Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs and Esther, see also Antilegomena),
So again the rabbinic judaism decides what is included and what is not
it is known even to little kids why they were disputed
its in the talmud itself
given the reason...
you not bringing nothing new
you just reading wiki and trying to understand something without any background knowledge
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:39
What is mentioned in the Quran is the Torah, which is the book of MOSES
nothing
it doesnt exist in that time period...
Ali
Ali
@MoriDoweedhYaAgob The wiki reflects the Jewish standpoint anyway
Ali
Ali
What is mentioned in the Quran is the Torah, which is the book of MOSES and that alongwith the teachings of MOSES ALONE is the law
yes noone disputes that...
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:43
وَكَيْفَ يُحَكِّمُونَكَ وَعِندَهُمُ التَّوْرَاةُ فِيهَا حُكْمُ اللّهِ ثُمَّ يَتَوَلَّوْنَ مِن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ وَمَا أُوْلَـئِكَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ {43
005:043 Khan
:
But how do they come to you for decision while they have the Taurat (Torah), in which is the (plain) Decision of Allah; yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.
@Ali idc about your wiki links and your quran quotes
@Ali get to the point if you have one
Ali
Ali
"Who revealed the Book which Moses brought, a light and guidance for mankind, which ye have put on parchments which ye show, but ye hide much (thereof), and by which ye were taught that which ye knew not yourselves nor (did) your fathers (know it)? Say: Allah...." Qur'an 6: 91
The point is that Torah is the law
@Ali like i said no one argues on that
@Ali now get to the point or im ending the convo
Ali
Ali
to be more clear point is Torah != Torah+sanhedrin+rambam+rashi...
@Ali i told you already before. you dont know what anything of those things you mentioned are
@Ali once you understand what those are then you can talk
Ali
Ali
May 30, 2013 03:52
And how do they make thee a judge and they have the Torah wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn away after that! And these are not believers.
@Ali go to sleep
Ali
Ali
I know sanhedrin is the council of scholars who added cannonical interpretations... and then came rambam...
we disagree on the cannonization \ closure of the torah
 
Conversation ended May 30, 2013 at 3:54.