Conversation started Oct 25, 2014 at 5:41.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Oct 25, 2014 05:41
Ok, so reading the various skills in ARRPG:
They never have more than one application for creating advantages or attacking (if either)
trogdor
trogdor
Science = super bargain
as in,.. each skill either lets you create advantage or attack, but never both?
(if it lets you do either at all)
BESW
BESW
No, he means no skill lets you create advantages in two uniquely different ways and never lets you attack in two uniquely different ways.
trogdor
trogdor
Ah ok
I see
BESW
BESW
But sometimes a skill will let you overcome or defend in two (or more) uniquely different ways.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Yes.
"Counter attacks" and "Counter attempts to create an advantage against you" are always their own Defend application.
Though there are also some unique and broader defences that do not care about the action involved.

Stealth: Foil any attempt to pinpoint your location, seek you out, or find evidence of your passage.

Notice: Watch over an area to detect people trying to use Stealth or Burglary to infiltrate it.

Empathy: See through lies and deceptions to someone’s true intent.

Burglary: Make a building (or something else) secure with locks or traps. This includes foiling investigation efforts and blocking attempts at infiltration by others using the same skill.
The Overcome applications are less clear though. Stealth has "keep yourself hidden" and "keep other things hidden." Deceive has "bluff" and "disguise".
But other things have super broad Overcomes, like Burglary: "engage in theft and infiltration." Hiding your tracks, breaking and entering, picking locks, all fall under this.
BESW
BESW
Oct 25, 2014 05:51
In part, I think this is a reflection of how much spotlight ARRPG wants to put on different things.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
How so?
I think it is also in part the fact that Athletics has extremely broad use, such that trying to narrow it down does more harm than good. Climb, sprint, swim, dodge, jump, how do you divide those up except with "Do things that involve moving your body"?
BESW
BESW
My brain isn't working well enough right now to articulate it.
Something about skill point expenditure being commensurate to the use of the skill's applications in the narrative.
An expensive skill pushes out access to other skills. That's important.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
That's true. And it does seem to me they deliberately expanded some of these skills to make them weigh more points.
e.g. Deceive has bluff and create a convincing disguise for overcome; that's definitely a conscious decision to divide those two!!
BESW
BESW
The other thing is narrative.
"Can you imagine someone with this skill being an expert in X application but not in Y application?"
Like an expert liar who can't disguise himself.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Sure, but I mean you could just put those two things into one overcome.
BESW
BESW
Oct 25, 2014 06:06
Right.
It's a gestalt decision.
I'd think this is important: if your entire application is sufficiently narrow that a stunt giving a +2 to it would be reasonable, you're too narrow.
trogdor
trogdor
and one key thing is your narrative
If you decided your character is good at lying but not quite as good, or inclined, to disguise stuff or themselves
BESW
BESW
ARRPG is a robots-punching-werewolves story, not a journalists-photocopying-classified-documents story.
trogdor
trogdor
they aren't going to attempt it as often
and if you decide you want to do it anyway, the DC for lying is gonna be lower than for disguising stuff, I would think
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Oct 25, 2014 06:23
@BESW so it should be broad enough that giving a +2 to it is unreasonable..?
BESW
BESW
I think so.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
ARRPG skills come in at...

1: Burglary, Contacts, Notice, Physique, Provoke, Rapport, Will
2: Athletics, Combat, Deceive, Stealth, Vehicles
3: Empathy
BESW
BESW
And in terms of frequency in standard modes:
1: Burglary, Combat, Empathy, Physique, Rapport, Stealth, Vehicles
2: Athletics, Contacts, Deceive, Provoke, Will
3: Notice
Not sure if it's useful to compare those, but it might be!
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Oct 25, 2014 06:39
2 defences:
Athletics (CA, A)
Combat (CA, A)
Empathy (see lies, CA)
Will (CA, A)

2 overcomes:
Deceive (bluff, disguise)
Empathy (perceive changes in attitude, remove mental consequences)
Stealth (hide yourself, hide anything else)
part of my confusion is: why divide at all?
why have applications, other than "counter physical attacks and advantages" etc
naturally to create cost, and that's good
BESW
BESW
To make it clearer when a mechanic is and isn't triggered by the narrative.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Oct 25, 2014 07:13
That's true, but the same can be achieved with a bullet-point list beside: "This can be used to Overcome with these things:"
so there's a deliberate choice to make it cost more
 
Conversation ended Oct 25, 2014 at 7:13.