"Can't tell if messing with Logan" or "On trust and cuteness of girls""

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:14

@JNat Trusting Google is probably a bad idea.

Krazer

@Eric don't trust the internet

user1306322

@Krazer says a guy on the internet

Krazer

@user1306322 especially not comments

Eric

@user1306322 It's like the bad guy in every movie ever. "Trust no one."

user1306322

@Eric he usually stays alive for the entire run, so

Logan M

Jun 24, 2014 17:23

@Eric No you can trust cute girls

Eric

@user1306322 Long enough to brag that you shouldn't have trusted him.

@LoganM Not exclusively. You cannot trust a yandere.

Logan M

@Eric y not?

user1306322

coz mirai nikki that's why

Logan M

Didn't watch/read it.

user1306322

now you must

Logan M

Jun 24, 2014 17:25

not very interested right now

how cute are the girls?

Eric

@LoganM Hard to say they're cute from the bloody end of a kitchen knife

Logan M

@Eric Yeah if they aren't cute you don't have to trust them

Eric

@LoganM But they appear cute at first. That's why you can't trust any cute ones.

Logan M

@Eric No you can trust them if they're cute

Cuteness isn't about appearances.

user1306322

if they're genuinely cute

faking cuteness convincingly may also be a reason to trust them

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:32

I disagree. They could appear cute (even in behavior) for just long enough to make you THINK it's safe. Then go butcher on your ass.

It's dangerous to go alone.

Logan M

@Eric There are two problems with this statement

1. If they're cute, you can trust them. It's not a matter of how they appear or whether they seem cute, but whether they are cute.

2. You're putting your own personal safety above the importance of cute girls. You might as well live in solitary confinement if that's your world view.

Eric

@LoganM There is no way to determine whether or not they are cute except by appearance, behavior, etc. Therefore you cannot trust them.

@LoganM Safety != life. If I die, they can't be cute anymore.

Logan M

@Eric The winners in life are the ones who experienced the most cuteness.

user1306322

but what if they're cute, but are actively trying not to be, in order to gain your trust?

Eric

Ahaha.

user1306322

Jun 24, 2014 17:35

then you'd be mistakenly befriending an actually cute girl!

[trust issues intensify]

Logan M

Anyway you guys are trying to debate semantics, but what I'm actually saying is not even slightly controversial. Cute girls are cute. You can trust them because the most important thing is cuteness, and since they're cute, you can trust them to be cute. Hence they are trustworthy.

Eric

@LoganM And what I'm saying is that there is no way to determine if they are cute. Therefore you cannot trust anyone.

Logan M

@Eric No you can trust cute girls.

Maybe you can't determine whether something is cute, but most people know what cute means.

user1306322

@Eric see, he must mean that you can trust a girl while she is cute, but while she isn't, she can't be trusted

sounds logical, but it's gonna be hard to flip that trust switch all the time

Logan M

@user1306322 No you can trust her because she is cute.

Because the only thing worth trusting people about anyways is whether they are cute.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:40

@LoganM ... You're completely missing the point. There is no way to determine whether a girl is cute, according to you.

Logan M

@Eric Of course there is a way

Eric

@LoganM Do tell

user1306322

do tell

Eric

According to you, appearance and behavior are not indicative of cuteness.

Logan M

Go watch anime/read manga/etc. Then ask yourself "is this girl cute?". The answer to this question tells you everything.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:41

Circular logic, ftw.

They are cute, because they are cute.

I think that basically ends today's round table.

Logan M

Yes they are cute because they are cute

Cute is empirically defined.

Eric

@LoganM -1

Best I can do since stars are only positive.

Logan M

If you have a purely formal definition of cuteness, I'd be interested in it, but every working definition I know of is fundamentally heuristic in nature. I suspect that a complete top-down description is beyond the capabilities of modern science.

user1306322

I feel inclined to give it a try

Logan M

I suspect you'll fail, but perhaps you will be the first to succeed where all others have not.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:48

@LoganM That's my point. It's heuristic, therefore it's subjective. Anyone can be fooled into thinking something is cute. There is no objective measure of whether something is cute, so if it appears cute, we see it as cute, and then, to us, it is cute. But it may not be.

Just like you may appear dead, but actually be alive and unconscious.

Logan M

@Eric It's heuristic and subjective, but you can't be fooled precisely because it isn't an objective measure.

Eric

@LoganM ... Uh? That's exactly why you CAN be fooled.

Logan M

Cuteness is always observer-dependent

Eric

But you're asserting that cuteness never changes, then

You're making the point that you can trust all cute girls without exception.

However, if a cute girl ceases to be cute, she can no longer be trusted, since she is not cute.

Logan M

@Eric Yes, that's a simple consequence of the definition.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:50

Therefore, since we never know when a cute girl may cease to be cute, we cannot trust cute girls.

Logan M

@Eric There's no time-dependence in my prescription

Eric

@LoganM Thus,

Logan M

At any given time, you can trust all girls who are cute at that time.

Eric

1 min ago, by Eric

But you're asserting that cuteness never changes, then

Logan M

@Eric No, not at all

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:51

Okay, consider this situation:

A cute girl tells you to do action A. She then stops being cute, and tells you to do action B.

You have no way of knowing whether she was secretly not cute when issuing order A.

Your heuristic analysis may have been incorrect in interpreting her as cute.

Logan M

She can't possibly be secretly not cute.

Eric

@LoganM That's not an objective fact, that's a guess.

Logan M

For the same reason that you can't secretly dislike cats.

Eric

Why not?

I know someone who pretended to like dogs so that their girlfriend would like them more.

Logan M

Do you like cats or dislike cats?

Pretending to another person is fine

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:53

@LoganM I like cats. Do you trust me enough to believe that's true?

Logan M

But you can't keep a secret from yourself

Eric

Of course not.

Logan M

@Eric I don't care whether you like cats or dislike cats

Eric

The cute girl secretly knows she is not cute.

But you, an observer, do not know that.

Logan M

You, as an observer, have the absolute power to assign cuteness however you choose

Cute girls are cute because you decide this, not for any other reason

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:54

Tell me something: Should I trust you?

Logan M

No

why would you?

Eric

Okay. I arbitrarily say you are cute now.

Logan M

do I look cute to you?

Eric

I still shouldn't trust you.

Logan M

Okay then you should trust me

Why not?

For that to be true you have to have some goal in life other than maximizing cuteness.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:55

No, my interpretation of you should not affect trustworthiness. Just because one agent (just me, no one else) thinks you are cute, that doesn't change anything.

@LoganM Trusting someone who is cute does not increase cuteness.

Logan M

Of course it changes everything, because cuteness is the only thing that matters.

@Eric But you can trust things that are cute to be cute.

Eric

For example: Let's say I trust someone who is not cute to procure two cute girls for me.

And they do so.

That's basically QED.

Logan M

I don't understand what you mean by "trust" here.

By trust, I mean that I trust them to be cute. Nothing more, nothing less.

Eric

Take at face value that their word is true.

Logan M

That's a very strange definition.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 17:57

That's what trust is.

Logan M

You're now talking about their words rather than their person.

Eric

Trust is not objectively correlated to cuteness.

Logan M

I trust people to behave in certain ways. I don't trust anything people tell me unless I can confirm it myself.

In particular, I trust cute girls to be cute, which is really the only thing that matters.

But as for whether I'd trust them to tell me the truth, that's not something I'm equipped to answer in any sort of generality.

Eric

Perhaps my definition is slightly narrow in that regard, but I would say that if I can't trust their word, I can't trust their actions. (And vice versa.)

Because speaking is an action.

This is getting a tad too philosophical.

Logan M

With that said, if there was a cute girl who did lie to me, it would be worth being lied to if she was cute.

I can't think of such a situation off-hand, but just by definition it's worth being lied to.

Eric

Jun 24, 2014 18:00

Conclusion: Cute things are cute. Trust is weird. @LoganM is maybe human.

"Can't tell if messing with Logan" or "On trust and cuteness of girls""

Maid Café (メイド喫茶)

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