Conversation started Dec 16, 2020 at 7:41.
Dec 16, 2020 07:41
@JohnRennie Hi again! :)
@KevinN hi :-)
How are you doing?
I'm good :-) How are you?
I'm fine :)
@JohnRennie I have a PC question :) Apart from HDDs and SSDs, are there any non-volatile memory in a regular desktop PC?
Yes, the PC had some memory where it stores the BIOS settings. This is powered by a battery on the motherboard so the memory is retained even when the PC is powered off.
Some PCs can take SDCards, though I guess that is really a form of SSD.
Dec 16, 2020 07:51
@JohnRennie Ahh I see :) Does the BIOS store hardware information? Like GPU, CPU specs and such.
I don't think so. The CPU info is stored on the CPU i.e. when you do a hardware report the CPU info in the report was read from the CPU. Likewise any peripherals like GPUs.
@JohnRennie Thanks for the info :)
Are you into SSDs, like in detail?
It depends on what you mean by "detail" I suppose.
Do you mean how they work at the individual transistor level?
Dec 16, 2020 08:10
Probably not that far :) But like SLC, MLC, IOPS
@KevinN In that case yes.
@JohnRennie Great then ;) What exactly determines the responsiveness when opening an app, chrome for example?
I heard that sequential read/write speeds don't really matter in quick burst processes.
But IOPS does
Is that true?
Sir how much reputation is needed to talk here
@PrateekMourya I can't remember. 20 I think.
@KevinN the sequential speeds tend to matter only when you are reading or writing a large file, where large means many GB.
Starting an app like Chrome requires lots of reads to different areas of the disk. Basically reading from random locations.
So random read speed would be the more important indicator?
Dec 16, 2020 08:20
The IOPS is the number of read or write instructions per second the disk can manage, so yes it is going to be a big factor starting Chrome because each of the random reads is one IOP.
But disk speed is heavily influenced by the caching algorithm a disk uses, especially for writes.
It's hard to pick out a single metric and say this is the important one.
I have something to do for ten minutes. Back soon ...
@JohnRennie Alright :)
@KevinN I'm back! It was a short 10 minutes.
@JohnRennie That was barely 8 minutes :)
As a general rule it's hard to look at the stats for a disk and say exactly how fast it's going to feel in everyday use.
@JohnRennie What about queue depth and thread? I've been a bit confused on which one reflects real daily usage.
Like Q32T16
I know that Q32 is very hard to achieve for day to day use.
Dec 16, 2020 08:33
Those metrics are OK as a general guide e.g. a disk that scores highly is likely to feel faster than a disk that stores low, but it's only a general guide.
Are you asking just out of curiousity, or are you trying to choose a disk?
I'm trying to choose a disk :)
An Nvme
But I'm pretty budget tight
In my country, the Transcend MTE220S seem to have the best value for me
I've used lots of different disks and I struggle to see any difference between them in everyday use. When I last needed an SSD (for my laptop) I bought a Kingston A2000 SSD, this one, and it's been great.
I have a tendency to buy Western Digital SSDs as they bought the business from SanDisk and I have had nothing but good experiences from SanDisk SSDs. They are a bit more expensive though.
SanDisks are quite costly here :)
But as costly as an SSD get, why is Samsung always the most expensive?
@KevinN Samsung tend to make the highest performance disks, and everyone knows this so the Samsung disks carry a premium.
But really you won't notice any difference between a top end Samsung disk and a mid range disk except possible in extreme situations.
@JohnRennie Yeah, it's crazy expensive in here, their 250 Gigs variant could cost more than a budget 1TB drive. Ridiculous :)
@JohnRennie Is it true that you should avoid DRAM-less SSDs?
Dec 16, 2020 08:48
@KevinN yes, very much so. It doesn't make a big difference for reads but no DRAM cache has a big effect on writes (not a good one!)
But only the cheapest SSDs have no DRAM cache.
Ahh I see, people everywhere has also been warning about it too :)
@JohnRennie Another question :) What exactly is Intel Optane? I've been very confused on what it actually does even after reading their official site.
Optane is like an SSD but it's typically used as a cache for a mechanical drive.
The idea is that when you read from the mechanical drive you'll probably want to read from the same region of the drive next. So when you do a read the Optane cache copies a large chunk of data from the drive in the background.
Then when you do the next read there's a good chance the data you want is already in the Optane cache and the read will be very fast.
Isn't this similar to RAM?
It also speeds up writes because the written data is temporarily stored in the Optane cache then written out to the drive when there's a quiet moment.
@KevinN yes, it's like the way the CPU cache speeds up memory access.
Or did you mean the way RAM caches data from the disk?
I'll wouldn't go that far yet :)
But is it fair to say that having 16GB of Intel Optane is like having an additional 16GB of RAM?
Dec 16, 2020 08:58
No. Optane can't be used as RAM. It only acts as a disk cache and it's only any use with a mechanical drive. SSDs don't benefit from Optane as they're already fast.
Is it because Optane is still much slower than RAM?
Yes. Optane is basically a form of SSD.
It's fast by the standards of disk speeds, but RAM is another order of magnitude faster.
How do you actually calculate the speed of RAM? I'm only familiar with RAM in their respective frequency(Hz)
I don't know to be honest
Yea, I've been wondering this for quite a while. There aren't really any many articles about this
@JohnRennie When manufacturers make their CPUs, not all of them perform equally, so does this mean they're binned?
Are the worse performing one made into lower end CPUs
Or straight up recycled
Dec 16, 2020 09:09
@KevinN do you mean some CPUs can be overclocked more than others?
In a sense Yes :)
If you buy, e.g., a 3GHz CPU and run it at 3GHz then all the CPUs will be the same.
If you want to try and run the CPU at a higher frequency than its spec you can try, and some CPUs will be able to reach a higher frequency than others.
But honestly overclocking is mostly a waste of time and money.
@JohnRennie Some even use LN2 and all sorts of weird experiments :))
It gives them something to do :-)
Some people have too much free time :-)
Ahahahaaha agree :)
@JohnRennie Is there any reason on why Intel still uses a 14nm process when AMD has started using 7nm since forever?
Dec 16, 2020 09:20
First note that the Intel 10nm process is equivalent to the AMD 7nm process, and likewise the Intel 7nm process is equivalent to the AMD 5nm process. They measure the sizes in different ways. That's why they get different numbers.
And Intel do have their 10nm (i.e. AMD 7nm) process working. It's just that they screwed up somewhere and they were very slow to get it working.
@JohnRennie I legitimately never knew about that size difference thing :)
Great info
I don't know what went wrong at Intel. They aren't saying :-)
They messed up big time :)
They have indeed. They handed AMD a free pass.
When the Ryzen 5000 series came out, they said something which basically translates "Ryzen's impressive, but..........."
Dec 16, 2020 09:27
My guess is that there have been some stressful meetings at Intel :-)
Definitely :)
Dec 16, 2020 09:53
@JohnRennie I need to go. See you later :)
@KevinN Bye :-)
 
Conversation ended Dec 16, 2020 at 9:54.