Discussion on Yogic & Vedantic Dhyana

Pandya

Feb 13, 2017 13:33

@Tezz I want to discuss about Yoga and Vedanta with you when you're free.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Explain in detail. two lines answers with no citations are converted to comments or may be deleted.

Rakesh Joshi

i have deleted it ...

looks like quantity is more important than quality ! :)

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi How that gives quality?

Rakesh Joshi

the answer need not be lengthy everytime ..
short answers can also be useful

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi It's not about length, it about quality. As this site is religious., Sastra Paramana is important than Pratyaksha Pramana. So, this site gives importance to Scriptures than opinions.

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 13:38

scriputes have been already quoted by others ..
what use of quoting same thing again and again.. anyways will try to make elaborate answers ..

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi That answer looks like opinion. You should explain in detail by citing scriptures (any specific verses how Rudra is different from Shiva).

@RakeshJoshi No. For comprehensive understanding, the community made it mandatory. If you cite slokas, it will really helpful. People also have different interpretations. So, it is useful in either ways.

Rakesh Joshi

looks like keshaw is the main person whom i have to oppose here

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi why to oppose?

Rakesh Joshi

ideology, principles ...

The Destroyer

This site belongs to all. Not Keshav or someone else.

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 13:42

opinions

The Destroyer

This may be helpful for you

11

Q: What kind of references are valid in answers? Are modern works allowed?

This is a question about what kind of references have to be provided when writing answers on Hinduism.SE. My basic question is: Are modern shlokas, scriptures, views, sayings etc. valid when using them as references? Or are only references from the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas and other ancient te...

@RakeshJoshi ok. We already had many such discussions with him.

Rakesh Joshi

i dont know but not all topics have authentic sources.
my reference name of Vamadeva kalpam was rejected ...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I think it's fine. It would be still better if you quote exact verses. You don't need to provide an online source always.

See Tezz's answers. He doesn't give online links but cite exact verses.

@RakeshJoshi Don't always think downvote as rejection. If someone downvotes your answer when you cite exact verses, it means downvoter doesn't agree with that interpretation of verse or doesn't agree with scripture.

@RakeshJoshi Your answer on religious restrictions is good. if you provide slokas from Atharveda, then it will be best answer.

Rakesh Joshi

but if sometimes we only know the name of the grantha and do not have access to its copy then is it waste ?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi But reader can't check authencity either. Best is if you provide exact verses. Except Agamas, we can find other scriptures online easily.

See this answer or ask us in chat. We can provide you.

11

Q: What are some online sources to get unabridged Hindu Scriptures or to learn Hinduism?

What are some good websites to find unabridged versions of Hindu Scriptures and to learn Hinduism (with proper interpretations)? Also, see: Where can I find/get basic information about Hinduism on the web? Where can I find the Hindu scriptures in Sanskrit with Hindi rendition/translation? Com...

scripture resource

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 13:52

not all the texts are available on net.. still i wil avoid it

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi This site is about religion. There are many chances people misinterpret verses. If you give vague references, then it makes the situation still worse. If you know verse, why to give online source? Just mention sloka and translation. That's it.

@RakeshJoshi if you have hardcopy, just mention exact verse and location. Simple.

@RakeshJoshi If you avoid providing exact slokas or words, community members may delete your answers. Strict rules need to followed for quality answers. We are helpless either.

Pandya

Feb 13, 2017 14:15

@RakeshJoshi Be Nice

Rakesh Joshi

if opposite person is not nice then i will also do the same.

who is the owner of Stack exchange ?

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi yes, self question and answer is allowed... I have many questions and self answers... eg you may find this hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/16594/… and this hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/13649/… useful...

Rakesh Joshi

what is the purpose of self question and answer ? fame ?

Tezz

@Pandya Okay we may discuss...

@RakeshJoshi it is sharing of knowledge... also it helps to increase % answered data...

Rakesh Joshi

ohh

Pandya

Feb 13, 2017 14:38

@Tezz As I understand both philosophy, both preach Dhyaya. Yoga preach to Dhyana on Man and Chitt whereas Vedanta on Atman/Brahman right?

@Tezz I mean Dhyana is essential according to both philosophy.

Rakesh Joshi

dhyana is a vital part of every religion or cult .. without it no progress

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi no one. it is run by us.

Rakesh Joshi

ohh

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi May i know your age if you don't mind?

Rakesh Joshi

30

The Destroyer

Feb 13, 2017 14:52

ok.

Rakesh Joshi

u

The Destroyer

23.

Tezz

@Pandya yes Dhyana is necessary in both...

@Pandya Dharana Dhyana and Samadhi are the final steps of Yoga...

Rakesh Joshi

:)

Pandya

@Tezz ok. Now, the difference as I understand is Yoga preach Dhyana on Mind/Chitt and Vedanta on Atman/Brahman right?

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 15:02

vedana is more of a dry philoso[phy

Pandya

@RakeshJoshi let me discuss with Tezz

Tezz

@Pandya Yoga holds that true knowledge comes only when chitta is Shanta (Yoga chitta vriti Nirodha).. whereas Vedanta focuses on Brahman...

@Pandya I suggest you to read Swami Vivekananda commentary on Patanjali Yoga Sutras...

Pandya

I've some work, will be back after half an hour.

Tezz

Ok... @Pandya

Pandya

Feb 13, 2017 15:36

@Tezz Does Yoga-Dhyana necessarily include Kundalini-Jagruti or Passing through all Chakra?

Tezz

@Pandya No, it doesn't necessarily include... Kundalini Jagarana is just one of the method among the many...

Pandya

@Tezz Are you referring to Rajayoga by Commentary of Swami Vivekananda?

Tezz

@Pandya I don't know whether it is same or not... does it contain commentaries of Sutras.. ?

Pandya

@Tezz Yes.

Tezz

Feb 13, 2017 15:51

@Pandya oh I think it's same... have you read it... ?

Pandya

@Tezz I've read Yoga Sutras of Patanjali with simple translation. No, I've not read Commentary by Swami Vivekananda yet.

Tezz

@Pandya Oh ok... what I think is Yoga deals more with practicality than Vedanta...

Pandya

@Tezz I've a book of Rajayoga which contains two part. One explains Rajayoga terminology, philosophy etc. And second contains original Yoga Sutra with commentary. I've read somewhat first part. Your recommendation just reminded me to complete it. I'll consider to read and complete commentary on Yoga Sutras.

@Tezz and then will (may) discuss with you later on this topic

Tezz

@Pandya Oh ok.. btw when I read commentaries and Yoga Sutras then I feel my concenteration power is increasing greatly....

I just go on practicing what Sutras and commentaries say...

@Pandya Oh ok... we will discuss latter then on this topic...

Pandya

@Tezz Btw, regarding to Dhyana, Upanishads/Vedanta briefly preach to Dhyana on Atman and Brahman. It doesn't explain how to deeply.

@Tezz Whereas if one want to learn Dhyana then I think Yoga is what it is about right?

Tezz

Feb 13, 2017 16:04

@Pandya yes you are right .... however Svetasvatara Upanishad gives somehow information like position of body etc... while performing Dhyana...

@Pandya Yes, Yogic Dhyana helps to give more clear perception to understand Vedantic Brahman...

Pandya

@Tezz now, the question is Can one go through Upanishads only for approaching to Brahman or he should refer to Yoga for learning Dhyana? (As we know Upanishads are purly spiritual and represents Atman/Brahman, it doesn't provide much information on Dhyana, rathet they do describe Param Satya directly)

Tezz

लघुत्वमारोग्यमलोलुपत्वं 
        वर्णप्रसादः स्वरसौष्ठवं च । 
गन्धः शुभो मूत्रपुरीषमल्पं 
        योगप्रवृत्तिं प्रथमां वदन्ति ॥ १३॥ 
The precursors of perfection in yoga, they say, are lightness and healthiness of the body, absence of desire, clear complexion, pleasantness of voice, sweet odour and slight excretions.

As gold covered by earth shines bright after it has been purified, so also the yogi, realising the truth of Atman, becomes one with the non−dual Atman, attains the goal and is free from grief.

Pandya

Html codes and entity don't worth with chat.

Tezz

It is automatically generated..

Pandya

oh! ok

The Destroyer

Feb 13, 2017 16:09

@Pandya Yoga helps to expand our consciousness with help of body but Vedanta does it with Knowledge but second one is very slow.

@Pandya Everything procedure we do for mingling (for union) with Brahman is Yoga. Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga. it's not mandatory to always to sit in Padmasana in yoga.

Tezz

@Pandya what I think is Yogic Dhyana is needed to perceive Atman/Brahman clearly... although we know "This universe is illusion." But still we do not perceive universe as illusion..so Knowing should actually be experiencing (not just knowing) which is possible through Regular practice concenteration and yoga...

The Destroyer

@Tezz one such method is Jnana Yoga through Upanishads. It is also yoga.

Pandya

@Tezz to be honest I want to clear Upanishadic and Yogic Dhyana for the approach to Param Satya.

The Destroyer

@Pandya Swami Sivanananda site may help you.

Pandya

@TheDestroyer I know it's not mandatory to sit in Padmasana in Yoga.

Tezz

Feb 13, 2017 16:14

@Pandya Svet upan. 2.9 also says:

The yogi of well regulated endeavours should control the pranas; when they are quieted he should breathe out through the nostrils. Then let him undistractedly restrain his mind, as a charioteer restrains his vicious horses.

The Destroyer

@Pandya Best way is utilizing Physical Yoga and Vedanta (Jnana). Quick and best as per my opinion, with Karma Yoga.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes ... Jnana yoga..

Pandya

@TheDestroyer I'm not looking for resources this time, instead I need fruitful discussion with knowledge person that's why I've said earlier "let me discuss with Tezz" ; don't mind.

The Destroyer

@Pandya ohh ok. Site has basic intro.

Tezz

@Pandya we can do Pranayamas and Dharanas by yogic method so that we can have clear perceptions and intellect.. and in the same time we can also go with Vedantic teachings... like meditations on Mahavakyas and Brahmavidyas... In this way I think one reaches to Parama Satyam...

@Pandya Gita also says "Mind is the cause of bondage and liberation..." So, any method which helps to control mind are useful...

Pandya

Feb 13, 2017 16:20

@Tezz Yes. Btw, whay do you think Adi Shankaracharya should had followed Yoga path or not?

@Tezz Yes, thanks for your valuable suggestion.

The Destroyer

@Tezz @Pandya BTW, best translation of Patanjali Yoga Sutras with Vyasa Bhasya is by Pandit Usharbudh Arya.

Tezz

@Pandya "Adi Shankaracharya should had followed"... ? (I don't understand clearly)...

Rakesh Joshi

@Tezz nice points shared by you (i m in agreement with many of them)

Tezz

@TheDestroyer Oh... ok..

The Destroyer

@Tezz but I have only Samadhi Pada.

Tezz

Feb 13, 2017 16:23

@RakeshJoshi Thank you!...

Pandya

@Tezz I mean आदि शंकरचार्य ने योग-ध्यान से परम सत्य को जाना होगा या सिर्फ उपनिषद्-ध्यान से या combination of both?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer do you have Swami Vivekanandas commentary on it ?..

The Destroyer

@Tezz Ganghadar Jha also made a translation but Pandit Usharbudh Arya is best as he explains each sutra very clearly.

Pandya

@TheDestroyer Do you have it?

The Destroyer

@Tezz Yeah. I have it. I think that is included in complete works.

Tezz

Feb 13, 2017 16:25

@Pandya I think he knew through combination of both... actually Yoga and Vedanta are intertwined...so one can't say that I do only one...

2

The Destroyer

@Pandya Yes. but i was able to get only Volume 1. I searched a lot for volume 2.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer Oh ok...

Rakesh Joshi

but i want to add that dhyana is integral part of every system. wheter indian or western

further Adi shankaras approach did have yogic and tantrirc methods

there will be certainly activation of chakras / kundalini as it happens during the progress in spiritual path.

even if a moslem or christian , if they advance in the spiritual path, there will be kundalini come into play . though he may or may not be aware of concept of kundalini

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Yoga is Indian or Hindu Science. Don't say western. Shiva is Adi Yogi.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi are you initiated in Kashmiri Shaivism.. ?..

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 16:27

i m saying whoever progresses in spiritual path will surely have these experences

Pandya

@Tezz ok. I'm decided to go with Yoga-Dhyana with Upanishada Preaching. (Combination). Btw, Upanishads are our favourite, we can't forget it's preaching for just a moment!

Rakesh Joshi

i m initiated into yoga (with some tantric injunctions )

The Destroyer

@Pandya I think some Vedantins reject Yoga because of Philosophical differences but Practically Yoga is best.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Oh... I think you know about Shaktipaata ... do you?...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi who initiated you?

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 16:28

again shaktipaata is also ESSENTIAL part of GENUINE INITIATION irrespective of religion or cult

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi did you receive Shaktipaata initiation?..

Rakesh Joshi

my guru was not famous in public . he used to live in Kerela . His name Sri Yogi Mohan. 2015 august he left his physical body\

yes if there is no shaktipaat then there is no actual initiation itself.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi There are many charlatans in India who say they do Shaktipata but nothing happens. fraudsters are increasing.

@RakeshJoshi ok.

Pandya

@TheDestroyer Yes, @KeshavSrinivasan has raised that Yoga Darshana is rejected in Brahma Sutra. That's why I was little confused but I think we can use Yoga in the approach of Parama Satya with basing Upanishadic Preaching - Clear /cc @Tezz

Tezz

@Pandya @TheDestroyer Yoga says Dhyana ia necessary.. Vedanta says knowledge of Brahman is necessary.. now If I do Dhyana on Vedantic teachings (like Mahavakyas and soon)... then we do both: Yoga and Vedanta...

2

The Destroyer

Feb 13, 2017 16:31

@RakeshJoshi What is your experience of Shaktipaata?

Pandya

@Tezz Absolutely Right!

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Isn't Shaktipaata instant enlightenment... ?..

Rakesh Joshi

at present if you want to try then best is mahayoga (siddhayoga) of maharastra

they do distant initiation also (i havent taken but heard its genuine)

Kaka maharaj was of that lineage and quite famous he was for this but he left body recenrly

there is nothing called as "instant enlightenment" if shaktipaat is enough then what is the need of sadhana? this word will hold no meaning then.

The Destroyer

@Tezz What made Vedantins to reject Yoga? I only know philosophy of Kundalini Yoga. They also feel world as real and more Shiva oriented. What's exact philosphical difference?

Pandya

Star this; it's Tezananda's Preaching!

Tezz

Feb 13, 2017 16:34

@RakeshJoshi can one feel movement of energy on chakras like Muladhara etc.. during Shaktipata ?...

Rakesh Joshi

Yes I also hold the view that world is REAL and not ILLUSION. as opposed to vedanta

moreover vedas do not call world as unreal.

Tezz

Haha lol.. @Pandya

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi See Kala Suktha of Atharva VEda.

Rakesh Joshi

@Tezz yes there is some sensations of energy which can be felt in physical body also

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi well it depends on intrepretations of Vedas which make one think whether World is real or illusion...

Keshav Srinivasan

Feb 13, 2017 16:35

@RakeshJoshi So you believe in Kashmiri Shaivism? I'm curious, given that you're a Tamil person how did you come to believe in Kashmiri Shaivism rather than Shaiva Siddhanta?

Rakesh Joshi

@Tezz yes but as such no word as jagat mithya etc in the main veda as far as i know

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Not all Vedanta philosophies call the world an illusion. I believe in Visistadvaita, which says that the world is real.

The Destroyer

@Tezz Kundalini raising should be very gradual for stable results. Unfortunately, it became business.

Pandya

@Tezz actually I would have similar conclusion before starting discussion but by discussion with you, it get more clear and दृढ! Thanks

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi yes but there are statements like "There is in it no diversity"... "This all is this self"... "World kept in time is seen as many"..

@RakeshJoshi did you personally experienced energy in Chakras during Shaktipata initiation... ?..

Rakesh Joshi

Feb 13, 2017 16:38

i do believe in kashmir shaivism but that is not the ONLY ideology i believe. i m born and raised in chennai i m naively from gujarat

but regions dont matter to me .. as i belive vasudhaiva kutumbakam

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan He is of Gujarathi origin settled in Tamilnadu.

@RakeshJoshi who is your Ista Deva?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes it has become business... if you see in Youtube we can find tons of nonsense videos related to chakras...

Rakesh Joshi

yes i did feel but i can share only up to a certain extent.

Yes Vedas do say "self alone exist" "there is only one reality"

but jagat is not unreal because jagat , me , you all are same part of creation . ( its willing manifestation )

Pandya

Ok. Continue your discussion and Best of Luck to @RakeshJoshi I think you'll surely get some more information/knowledge here.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer "Isochronic tones for chakra activation" full 3 hrs. 8hrs. etc... Lol...😀😀

Pandya

Feb 13, 2017 16:40

Good-bye!

Tezz

@Pandya Thank you also... I got opportunity to discuss with you...

Vedanta and Philosophy

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