Conversation started Jun 2, 2012 at 20:54.
Jun 2, 2012 20:54
A category $\mathbb{C}$ comprises the following data: a set $C_0$, a set $C_1$, a map $s : C_0 \to C_1$, a map $t : C_0 \to C_1$, a map $\rho : C_0 \to C_1$, and a map $\tau : C_2 \to C_1$, where $C_2 = \{ (g, f) \in C_1 \times C_1 : s(g) = t(f) \}$, and all these are required to satisfy various axioms.
Hey ho! Is there some name for basis of the form $e_{1} = b$, $e_{2} = Ae_{1}+b$, ..., $e_{n} = Ae_{n-1}+b$?
But first, some visualisation: we think of $C_0$ as the set of vertices of a graph, and $C_1$ as the set of edges.
$\int sin^2x cos^2 x$ = $\int (1-cos2x)/2 * (1+cos2x)/2$ = $\frac{1}{4} \int 1 - cos^2 2x$ = $x/4 + \frac{1}{4} -1 \int cos^2 2x$
I then work with just cos^2 2x
This is not an ordinary graph: the edges are directed, and there can be more than one edge between any two vertices, and loops are allowed.
$s$ gives the "source" of an arrow/edge, and $t$ gives the "target".
$C_2$ is then seen to be the set of pairs of edges which can be joined head-to-tail.
u = 2x $\frac{-1}{8} \int cos^2 u du$ = $\frac{-1}{8} \int \frac{1+cos2u}{2}$ = $ \frac{-1}{16} \int cos 2u$
Jun 2, 2012 20:57
We require $s(\rho(x)) = t(\rho(x)) = x$: $\rho : C_0 \to C_1$ is the witness of the reflexivity of this graph; in other words, $\rho(x)$ is a distinguished edge from $x$ to $x$.
then I just subsitute again and get sin but sin goes away with 0 and pi so that doesn't even matter
On the other hand, $\tau : C_2 \to C_1$ witnesses "transitivity", but not in the usual graph-theoretic sense.
@ZhenLin Sorry, shouldn't the set of edges then be $C_0$?
Please don't contradict me.
@PeterTamaroff Since you didn't backlink, I don't know to what you are referring.
Jun 2, 2012 20:58
@Nimza If you're free to choose $A$, then every basis has that form.
@HenningMakholm no, A is fixed
@Nimza I didn't even know it was broken :-)
Hi @robjohn!
@HenningMakholm Hey Henning! Long time, no type!
The main axiom for $\tau$ is associativity: $\tau(\tau(h, g), f) = \tau(h, \tau(g, f))$.
Jun 2, 2012 21:00
@robjohn Indeed. I think I've kicked the habit.
We also require $s(\tau(g, f)) = s(f)$ and $t(\tau(g, f)) = t(g)$.
@HenningMakholm You mean visiting MSE or just chat?
@robjohn Either. I did pop by to vote for you in the mod election, but it didn't seem to work.
118 messages since I left
this is getting active!
@Jordan The last equation doesn't make sense to me.
Jun 2, 2012 21:01
The picture to draw here is a triangle: we have three vertices $x$, $y$, and $z$, and three edges $f$, $g$, and $\tau(g, f)$, where $f$ goes from $x$ to $y$, $g$ goes from $y$ to $z$, and $\tau(g, f)$ goes from $x$ to $z$.
I don't even know anymore
I am so sick of this problem
@robjohn The one about $${s_n(a+1) \over {ns_n(a)}}$$
Then the final axioms relate $\rho$ and $\tau$: if $s(f) = x$, then $\tau(f, \rho(x)) = f$, and if $t(f) = y$, then $\tau(\rho(y), f) = f$.
I have never done one thing for so long, I am just angry I need to do something else
@Jordan Hey, just keep doing. That was quite right and good. Only the last part wasn't correct. Take a look at it now and tell me if you can find where was the mistake.
Jun 2, 2012 21:03
I have failed to do this one thing for about 2 hours now
This basically says that $\rho(x)$ is a degenerate edge: joining it to another edge doesn't change anything.
And these are all the axioms for a category.
I fixed the last aprt and the answer is still wrong
Of course, traditionally $C_0$ is called the set of "objects", $C_1$ is called the set of "morphisms", $s$ is normally called $\textrm{dom}$, $t$ is normally called $\textrm{codom}$, $\rho(x)$ is normally written $\textrm{id}_x$, and $\tau(g, f)$ is normally written $g \circ f$... but I find this tends to put certain, uh, preconceptions in people's minds.
@Jordan Hang on, I'll read the rest of it.
I get x/4 - x/16 -sin4x/8 or something but sin is 0 so it doesn't matter what sin is
I need to make the first two terms equal pi/16
which seems impossible, I have tried to solve that equation but it doesn't work
Jun 2, 2012 21:07
Very good. Thank you. Ignore my previous comment.
So a category is a graph with some additional structure.
Indeed.
Conversely, every directed graph $\Gamma$ generates a "free" category, whose "morphisms" are just finite head-to-tail strings of directed edges of $\Gamma$.
The "identity morphism" is the empty string (for each vertex separately).
But if you have a strongly connected directed graph (with a unique loop on each vertex), then that's already a category.
@HenningMakholm I was third, but not that close.
@robjohn I couldn't find results in a human-readable format.
No, wait, sorry. Don't ignore my previous comment: $s$ and $t$ give us the start and end point (respectively) of an edge in $C_1$. So why are they maps $C_0 \to C_1$ instead of $C_1 \to C_0$?
@Jordan First: $\int sin^2x cos^2 x$ = $\int (1-cos2x)/2 * (1+cos2x)/2$ = $\frac{1}{4} \int 1 - cos^2 2x$ = $x/4 - \frac{1}{4} \int cos^2 2x$
Jun 2, 2012 21:15
@HenningMakholm Bill posted them here
What is wrong with my way?
Ah, now that was a typo...
@Jordan I'm talking about your way! There are much easier ways to do it but we're trying to find out what you're doing wrong.
I changed the last equation there.
@robjohn How is that supposed to be read?
I got 11 votes?
I hope it's correct since it's 0200 a.m here!
Jun 2, 2012 21:17
I don't think there are easier ways to do it really, the easier ways involve memorization of very complex idetnities
@Jordan Okay, did you understand what I changed?
@Jordan You want to evaluate $\int \sin^2 x\cos^2 x dx$?
@Jordan Then about your substitution, it was mostly right except you needed to do another substitution.
Jun 2, 2012 21:19
@robjohn Thanks. It seems the chatroom constituency isn't as strong as we'd like to think. :-)
$\frac{-1}{8} \int cos^2 u du$ = $\frac{-1}{8} \int \frac{1+cos2u}{2}$ = $ \frac{-1}{16} \int cos 2u$
@Jordan What integral are you trying to evaluate?
@PeterTamaroff Wait, I'll finish talking to him and then you can ask him questions!
Are you following @Jordan?
$\tau$ gives us $\circ$ for morphisms -- how do we get $+$?
@PeterTamaroff The way I read it, you were first choice for 11 voters and second choice for 6 of the voters who put Bill as first choice.
Jun 2, 2012 21:21
I did 2 subsitutions
@MattN: One step at a time! Abelian categories is still some way off.
@ZhenLin I was aiming for pre-additive categories only : )
@Jordan What did you get? $s = 2u $\
Here's a fun example of a "abstract" category which isn't really all that abstract.
Jun 2, 2012 21:22
something like that
$C_0 = \mathbb{N}$.
Let $C_1$ be the set of all matrices over some field $k$.
@PeterTamaroff Then afterwards, you were not second choice for the single voter who put checkmath first (who didn'r provide any alternative vote, by the way), nor third choice for any of the two voters who voted 1-Bill, 2-checkmath (their third votes went to Eric and Benjamin).
Define $s : C_1 \to C_0$ to be the number of columns of a matrix, and $t : C_1 \to C_0$ to be the number of rows.
Define $\rho(n)$ to be the $n \times n$ identity matrix, and $\tau(B, A)$ to be the product matrix $B A$.
@gigili I dont think that changes the answer though since sin goes to 0
@HenningMakholm I can't understand it well.
Nevermind.
Jun 2, 2012 21:24
I am evaluating from 0 to 2pi
I see. Wait: $\rho(n)$ could be any $n \times n$ matrix, no?
This is a category! And it's equivalent to a well-known one: the category of finite-dimensional vector spaces over $k$ and $k$-linear maps.
@Jordan You missed the "1"
And it just so happens to be a preadditive and even abelian category.
@MattN: In principle. But then the axioms wouldn't be satisfied here.
Jun 2, 2012 21:26
@Jordan If you're evaluating the integral in $(0,2 \pi)$ then you should be explicit about it.
Put the limits of integration in the integral.
it doesnt matter until the end
I really do not have time like this, I can't believe i just wasted 2 hours on a single problem, I still have 6 sections to study
@Jordan $\frac{-1}{8} \int cos^2 u du$ = $\frac{-1}{8} \int \frac{1+cos2u}{2}$ = \frac{-1}{16} \int 1+\cos u du=\frac{-1}{16} \int 1 du+ \frac{1}{32} \int \cos s ds $
It's $1+\cos 2u$
@ZhenLin Which (category) axiom wouldn't be satisfied? I assume you are talking about vector space axioms now?
@Jordan Then you should plug in that into the previous integral!
@MattN: The one about the composition of identities, of course.
Jun 2, 2012 21:30
You missed some constant which will help to have the $\pi/16$ or whatever is the final answer supposed to be.
Not whining won't help me get my homework done
@ZhenLin By composition of identities you mean this?
@Jordan I mean this: positive thinking.
Yes.
Jun 2, 2012 21:32
@gigili your answer doesn't format correctly
@Jordan If you give me your question I'll try and help you out.
I posted it I just want to know what i am doing wrong
Umm.
@Jordan Link
$\frac{-1}{8} \int cos^2 u du = \frac{-1}{8} \int \frac{1+cos2u}{2} = \frac{-1}{16} \int 1+\cos u du=\frac{-1}{16} \int 1 du+ \frac{1}{32} \int \cos s ds $
It had too many dollar signs.
Jun 2, 2012 21:34
Oh, I see.
What's the final answer supposed to be @Jordan?
0
Q: Integral of $\int \sin^2 x \cos^2 x dx$

JordanThis seems pretty simple to me but I can't get it. $$\int \sin^2 x \cos^2 x dx$$ $$\int (1-\cos^2 x) \cos^2 x dx$$ I know there is a rule in my book (with little explanation) that tells me when I had an odd and an even degree on two trig functions I should split the odd and convert it to an id...

@ZhenLin Cool, thank you!
But the objects in this category happen to have an additive structure already.
Nope
Matrix addition?
Jun 2, 2012 21:35
@Gigili $\frac{ \pi}{16}$
The set of objects is $C_0$.
Ah. Right, that's why I thought that $\rho (n)$ could be any matrix at first.
But yes, matrix addition makes this into a preadditive category.
@Jordan 0 to 2\pi?
This is probably the fundamental example of a "ringoid". You can't add arbitrary matrices, and you can't multiply arbitrary matrices either.
The $s$ and $t$ tell you which ones you can add or multiply.
 
Conversation ended Jun 2, 2012 at 21:37.