Conversation started Jan 13, 2017 at 17:39.
Jan 13, 2017 17:39
does anyone know where I can get a quick refresher on the physical significance of various calculus operators?
Examples?
i.e.: what does second/third derivative/integral "mean" when you take it of something
Ahhk.
I'm doing some classical physics, which I haven't looked at in a while, and my calculus is bad.
I feel like engineers know this stuff, but I don't.
Multivariate operators, too? (gradient, Laplacian, divergence, curl, etc.)
Jan 13, 2017 17:41
yeah... what exactly does gradient mean physically?
The normal me would leave a snarky link to wikipedia.com, but since I'm interested too, I digress
I know what it is mathematically... but I need quick interpretations of physical significance of formulae
In 1-D:
1st derivative is slope, rate of change; how fast a thing is
Second is how fast its fastness is
2nd derivative is curvature, rate of change of the rate: toward which direction is the rate changing
3rd derivative is "jerk", rate of change of curvature; it's the smoothness of the change
Think steering wheel and turning rate of a car
$\theta$ is the angle the car is pointing
$\phi$ is the angle of the steering wheel
which is proportional to $\mathrm d \theta \over \mathrm d t$
${\mathrm d ^2 \theta \over \mathrm d t^2} = {\mathrm d \phi \over\mathrm d t}$ is the acceleration of the direction the car is pointing -- how quickly the rate of turn is changing, and in which direction.
Jan 13, 2017 17:48
I understood the first part... that helps.
what is the gradient?
${\mathrm d ^3 \theta \over \mathrm d t^2} = {\mathrm d ^2 \phi \over\mathrm d t^2}$ is how quick the change is, of the acceleration of the direction the car is pointing -- if the jerk is large, it's like when you suddenly yank the steering wheel to one side.
The quick change from a steering wheel at rest to a moving steering wheel (large transient $\mathrm d^2 \phi \over \mathrm d t^2$) leads to people being slewed about in their seats.
The gradient points in the direction of fastest increase.
Testing ... $\nabla\Theta$
I don't think the math formulae are working properly for me
Do I have to turn something on?
yep. Follow @Mart's instructions here:
6
A: MathJax in chat (ChatJax offshoot)

Martin - マーチンBased on the same principle, this little bookmarklet loads cancel in addition to mhchem: javascript:(function(){if(window.MathJax===undefined){var%20script%20=%20document.createElement(%22script%22);script.type%20=%20%22text/javascript%22;script.src%20=%20%22http://cdn.mathjax.org/mathjax/latest...

@hBy2Py Works for me
I mean after turning ChatJax on
The Laplacian, $\nabla\cdot\nabla\Theta \equiv\nabla^2\Theta$, is a measure of the local net curvature of a variable. At a local minimum $\nabla^2\Theta > 0$ strictly; at a local maximum $\nabla^2\Theta < 0$ strictly.
At other points, the value can be ~anything. One particular weird aspect is that $\nabla^2\Theta =0$ is possible even when a plot of the surface wouldn't look flat.
e.g., in two dimensions $\nabla^2\Theta = {\partial^2\Theta\over\partial x^2} + {\partial^2\Theta\over\partial y^2}$.
If ${\partial^2 \theta \over\partial x^2} = C$ and ${\partial^2 \theta \over\partial y^2} = -C$ at a certain point, then $\nabla^2\Theta = 0$ at that point, but the surface would look appreciably curved there.
Jan 13, 2017 18:01
oh ok I have to turn chatjax on
how do I do that
ok I'm gonna do it
one sec... my word just crashed after editing a big document. Fucking MicrobeSoft
The divergence, $\nabla \cdot \Theta$, is a measure of the "expandiness" or "contractiness" of a variable.
If the volume integral $\int{\int{\int{\nabla\cdot\Theta}}}$ over a region is greater than zero, then whatever $\Theta$ represents will have a tendency to "leak out" of that region.
Conversely, if the integral is less than zero, then there will be a "leaking in" tendency.
hmmm
OK I want to read this
so... I copy the javascript into the URL of my bookmark and open it?
The curl, $\nabla\times\Theta$, gives a measure of the rotational character of the field. This is only defined in three dimensions, since the cross-product is only defined in three dimensions.
Yep, just create a new bookmark (I have mine in my bookmark bar) and copy the script text into the destination field.
what if I just paste it into the browser url bar?
Then when you click it, it should convert all existing and future MathJax.
Jan 13, 2017 18:06
the bookmark just opens about:blank when I click it
Which browser?
chrome
when I paste into URL bar I get a 404
"Your client has issued a malformed or illegal request."
no chrome? Let me try some other browserrs
No, it works fine in my Chrome
hmm
Maybe try reloading the chat page first?
Jan 13, 2017 18:08
kk
The Hessian can be constructed from the outer product of $\nabla$ on $\Theta$, as $\nabla\nabla\Theta$. (Note this is not to my knowledge ever written as '$\nabla^2\Theta$'.)
In 2D, this gives a tensor (or matrix):
I'm definitely not doing this right. I need help with the mathjax before I can read your physics explanation
(sorry :/)
I had trouble with it at first, too.
I can't remember what I did that made it work.
ohhhh
my java script is disabled
I turned it off for some sort of secruity reason
one sec...
Ah, yes, that will be significant. ;-)
Jan 13, 2017 18:11
XD
@hBy2Py $\nabla\nabla\Theta = \left[\left[ {\partial^2 \Theta\over\partial x^2}, {\partial^2 \Theta\over\partial x\partial y}\right],\left[ {\partial^2 \Theta\over\partial x\partial y}, {\partial^2 \Theta\over\partial y^2}\right]\right]$
nnope, still doesn't work
<helpless shrug>
No idea, without being there to fiddle. :-(
kk I'll get this fixed then brb
Anyways, the Hessian is a convenient collection of all the different possible second derivatives you can construct for a given variable.
@hBy2Py In this above example where $\nabla^2\Theta=0$:
1) The diagonal elements of the Hessian will be nonzero
2) The trace of the Hessian, however, will be zero, as $\mathrm{tr}\,\nabla\nabla\Theta \equiv \nabla^2\Theta$.
Jan 13, 2017 18:18
@gannex Drag the bookmark to the top of the tab
Funny we keep having this long trail of conversation every time.
3) In most cases, the off-diagonal elements of the Hessian will be nonzero.
I think we should write a better manual
Yep, it'd definitely be good to have.
OK
Javascript bookmarklets are working. I made a hello world one. But the ones from the page you linked me don't work.
Ok, so those are all the major multivariate spatial derivatives I know of: gradient, Laplacian, divergence‌​, curl, and Hessian.
Jan 13, 2017 18:21
my biologist friend requested a manual like this, it would definitely be helpful.
And all of them can be evaluated at any single point in the domain of $\Theta$.
fin
 
Conversation ended Jan 13, 2017 at 18:22.