my toy OS/terminal/desktop/editor is bigger than yours

Braiam

Mar 9, 2014 01:32

btw, wow, so many people here

terdon

@goldilocks of course he's not some guy! He is, as you say, probably the single most important person in *nix history. Linking to a wikipedia page about him might make sense but his obituary? It made sense last year because he had just died, I think that was how I actually learned that he'd died.

I'd rather see useful software promoted there, or even living legends but I don't see the point is posting large photographs of dead giants.

strugee

@terdon <troll>well you were the one who posted Haiku so clearly you're not a complete stickler for useful</troll>

terdon

@strugee heh, I don't see why it's not useful. Were you the one who was posting silly comments about starting an OS now etc?

slm

At least the ArchWiki mentions that stage 1.5 is no longer used and that grub2 is modular

strugee

@terdon no in all seriousness Haiku is on my list of systems to try out. there's so much fascinating stuff

slm

Mar 9, 2014 01:37

wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Grub#Notes_for_GRUB_Legacy_users

strugee

MINIX3 ("not your grandfather's MINIX"), the Hurd, NixOS/Guix... agh so many toys to play with, so little time

terdon

@strugee yeah, it looks really cool and I like the fact that they're continuing BeOS

goldilocks

5

A: Community Promotion Ads - 2014

Now's your chance then

terdon

@goldilocks wow, midnight commander, haven't seen that one in ages!

goldilocks

ROCKS!!!

Definitely on my list of best software of all time.

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 01:43

really?

I could never get in to file managers. just coreutils, please

goldilocks

I honestly cannot imagine using a terminal without it.

@strugee orthagonal file managner ;)

strugee

@terdon so I'm checking out Terminator and I was really pumped about it until I found out that it was Java

terdon

@goldilocks I don't use a file manager either, just pure terminal. I used to use mc but years ago and not for long.

@strugee python I think

goldilocks

Whoops, that should be orthodox. Orthogonal makes more sense somehow. Or less no sense. Or something.

terdon

@strugee yes, python:

 terdon@oregano ~ $ file /usr/share/terminator/terminator
/usr/share/terminator/terminator: Python script, ASCII text executable

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 01:47

> Terminator will run on any modern OS with Java 6 or later.

software.jessies.org/terminator

Braiam

apt-cache depends terminator
terminator
  Depends: gconf2
    gconf2:amd64
  Depends: python-dbus
  Depends: python-gobject
  Depends: python-gtk2
  Depends: python-vte
  Depends: <python:any>
    python
    python:amd64
  Recommends: python-gnome2
  Recommends: python-keybinder
  Recommends: python-notify
  Recommends: xdg-utils

dunno how he would pull java

terdon

Yeah and I just had a quick look at the source, I don't see any java in there

strugee

maybe I got the wrong project

Braiam

@strugee tenshu.net/terminator

terdon

@strugee they seem to need java to run on windows

Braiam

Mar 9, 2014 01:50

wait, that's gnome terminator...

goldilocks

@terdon It's totally spoiled me WRT remembering how to invoke tar, etc. Spent some time cursing when answering that "backup" question earlier because of this. Then that prick terdon scooped the check ;)

terdon

lol, That's what you get for using crutches MR kernel hacker :)

Braiam

@goldilocks you need a cramming session of tar? ;)

strugee

I don't know what's worse--the fact that after 15 years of using tar I still can't keep the flags straight, or that after 15 years of technological advancement I'm still mucking with tar flags that were 15 years old when I started.

terdon

I never got that one, tar cvzf foo.tgz *txt

I only ever use tar in it's simplest forms so I've never had any problems with the syntax

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 01:52

yeah same haha

Braiam

@terdon compress, verbose, using gzip, force all files ending in txt and add it to foo.tgz archive

terdon

Apart from always using cVVzf instead of cVzf, I think at some point vv made it more verbose, or I just was used to that from rpm or something

@Braiam yes, I know. That's what I'm saying, I've never had any problems with tar's syntax

Now, ps on the other hand...

Braiam

ps ax, and nothing else...

strugee

I use ps aux

can't remember why

Braiam

users?

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 01:54

@terdon Well, interestingly, even after looking at the man page, I ended up with something like tar -cjf - tmp/ > blah.tb2. Notice the cryptic dash in the middle. And that I finally figured out by looking at the definitions for the mc user menu, lol.

strugee

@goldilocks - = stdout

goldilocks

One dash??

terdon

@Braiam a=all u=users x=full

strugee

@goldilocks yeah that's pretty standard

terdon

@goldilocks yeah, like join or paste and their ilk

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 01:55

and cat

Braiam

Fortunately, the charging one has been solved now that we've all standardized on mini-USB. Or is it micro-USB? Shit.

goldilocks

Okay I'z confused with -- to end switches. This is what mc has wrought.

terdon

What gets me with ps are the BSD vs Unix style options, with - or without that completely change behavior.

goldilocks

My current excuse anyway.

terdon

I used to use something very similar to mc in DOS. Can't remember it's name...

A! Norton Commander right?

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 01:57

norton commander

terdon

yup :)

Braiam

okey, now I know I'm surrounded by a bunch of old times D:

strugee

I was going to suggest explorer.exe

goldilocks

They keep working on mc all the time. 256 colors now and everything. Lasers and satellites.

People are writing skins for mc now.

terdon

@Braiam behave you brat ;)

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 01:58

I think there's an mc convention this year in Reno.

terdon

@goldilocks fine, you made me install it

@goldilocks in Reno? Was it Vegas last year?

strugee

@Braiam you think you're surrounded by old-timers

goldilocks

Honolulu. My 2nd worst pet peeve on logging into a server is no skins for mc? #1 is no mc??

Braiam

@strugee yep, you are not exempted

terdon

Yeah, the guy's playing around with MINIX and he calls us old timers!

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 02:04

@terdon mc -S xoria256 is what you want.

Lipstick on a pig and all.

terdon

            ┌─────────────────────── Warning ───────────────────────┐
            │                                                       │
            │ Unable to use 'xoria256' skin with 256 colors support │
            │              on non-256 colors terminal.              │
            │             Default skin has been loaded              │
            │                                                       │
            └───────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

Could have sworn mine was a 256 color term

@goldilocks what's your terminal emulator?

goldilocks

Konsole. I actually stopped using the XFCE Terminal (in KDE, lol) because of this.

I dunno if Konsole will stand alone.

Braiam

apt-cache depends konsole
konsole
  Depends: kde-runtime

casey

rxvt-256color ftw

strugee

@casey stuck in the last century, are we?

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 02:09

@Braiam Doesn't necessarily mean it won't run without KDE. The runtime may just have some common object files.

Hey! Who remembers Eterm?

casey

@strugee technically rxvt-unicode tiled w/ no wm decorations :)

strugee

@terdon MINIX 3! not your grandfather's MINIX! (that's what the creator said about it)

@casey smh

casey

my primary use of X is just to tile terminals

strugee

@casey can't screen or tmux do that? or viperwm

goldilocks

@terdon Actually I think a lot of this has to do with the TERM variable. I do have a setup with XFCE Terminal using 256 colors. I think all of them now support that.

terdon

Mar 9, 2014 02:12

or terminator, c'mon guys, get on the bandwagon!

slm

@goldilocks I used to use that (Norton Commander)

casey

thats overkill :) I'll run screen in one my terms if I need it, but I generally dont

terdon

@goldilocks good point

slm

►

strugee

@casey screen is overkill but Xorg isn't?

casey

Mar 9, 2014 02:13

@strugee my transparent terminals would be lost on me if I didnt have something to draw behind them :)

terdon

@slm wow. memory lane :)

casey

my most recent use for screen was an old box I needed to connect a null-modem to and realizing screen can talk serial ports

goldilocks

@slm My enthusiasm for computers pretty much skipped DOS and MS. It went VIC-20 -> busy with adolescence -> linux.

slm

screen is overkill wah?

strugee

@terdon I'd be trying it out right now if I wasn't blabbering in this here chatroom

please don't kick me

terdon

Mar 9, 2014 02:15

@strugee can't, you're too far. I tried.

slm

for fun today i've been watch videos that strugee sent me about systemd

strugee

@slm I misinterpreted

@slm oh, the six stages one?

slm

yeah

my 9 year old daughter was telling my wife that she learned about the 6 stages and my wife had only ever heard those stages used for getting over someone dying and was like WTF were you guys watching?

I informed her that we use it every day when talking tech and adapting to new stuff or getting users to adapt

casey

@slm was she more or less upset when she learned it was a video about an init system?

slm

she understood when I tied in how she felt when i swapped out Win7 for Ubuntu (wife)

casey

Mar 9, 2014 02:17

:)

slm

My daughter? No kids are oblivious and adapt to whatever I tell them is "normal"

casey

wife, you got it

goldilocks

@slm That's wearing the pants!

Braiam

4

A: Checking how many colors my terminal emulator supports

The value of $TERM does not give much information about the number of supported colors. Many terminals advertise themselves as xterm, and they can support any number of colors from just 2 to at least 256. You can query the value of each color with the OSC 4 ; c ; ? BEL control sequence. If the c...

strugee

@slm nailed it

Braiam

Mar 9, 2014 02:18

@terdon ^

slm

yeah I just did it in Aug/Sept.

I showed her 3 choices, mint, Ubuntu, and pclinuxos, she went for ubuntu

generally likes it, get's annoyed w/ finding things still

strugee

what DE?

terdon

@Braiam thanks

Braiam

btw, gnome terminal supports up to 255... which is weird

slm

wife? She uses stock Ubuntu, doesn't really like it

i tried to push her to pclinuxos

but she wanted ubutu

kids use stock ubuntu as well

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 02:20

@slm any reason in particular?

slm

i was too lazy to switch it

strugee

I recommend Mint to people nowadays

it's like Ubuntu but without all the political drama

slm

i've done this ~4 times now, 3 mints and 1 ubuntu

all my friends using mint like it

i even setup my buddies laptop with dual boot using dropbox as a sharing mechanism b/w the 2 dual boots, he likes it ans switches back and forth all te time

dual boot is mint + win 7

goldilocks

@Braiam You can set it, and apps will check that. TERM=xterm-256color

Braiam

@goldilocks ^ like that?

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 02:24

@strugee You mean the big red star that flashed subliminally post boot? That's just Texas.

@Braiam Yeep.

strugee

heh

Braiam

stupid xterm check...

casey

I never got those psuedo-graphical fs browsers like mc. I had plenty of friends that loved them, but I'd rather just have a shell

Braiam

I normally only need the raw commands, but sometimes laziness get the best of me..

casey

laziness is why copy is cp :)

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 02:26

@terdon ^

goldilocks

@casey Casey, it's a shell too. In fact, two shells too. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

strugee

@casey no it's not

Braiam

@slm I presume you are looking for code.google.com/p/joeldotfiles/source/browse/trunk/…

slm

I found this one: github.com/zhengkai/config/blob/master/script/256colors2.pl

is eithe preferred? I'm gonna paste the script here too

Braiam

this one seems good too github.com/l0b0/xterm-color-count

terdon

Mar 9, 2014 02:27

@strugee whohoo, a convert!

slm

heah + it's l0b0

goldilocks

@Braiam P.S. Liberal use of ctrl-o is pretty critical to the experience.

Braiam

@goldilocks mm... cool

slm

funny l0b0 links back to the UL Q that's now missing it

strugee

wtf, D-Bus?

slm

Mar 9, 2014 02:29

I forked it on github

Braiam

@strugee context?

strugee

@Braiam haha yah

Braiam

xterm-color-count git:(master) ./xterm-color-count.sh
256

-_-

strugee

Terminator connects to D-Bus by default and I was wondering why a terminal emulator would possibly need the session bus

Braiam

mmm? what?

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 02:31

it actually mentioned it right after I said that. it's used for terminator --newtab which connects to the existing instance

Braiam

oh, yeah, is more efficient using the message bus system that most systems has rather than reinvent the wheel

strugee

right

terdon

@slm missing what?

casey

thats how I manage my terminals on one monitor

the other monitor isn't so organized with browser windows cluttering things

slm

@terdon The link he had on his script points back to the Q w/ the A that was now missing this script

terdon

Mar 9, 2014 02:35

@slm ah yes, but l0b0 has linked to it in a comment

strugee

@casey that's so awesome

goldilocks

@casey Is that python on the right?

strugee

@goldilocks no

F90

whatever that is

casey

@goldilocks Fortran 2003/2008

Thanks @strugee

strugee

@casey but wtf are you doing mixing vim and emacs?

slm

Mar 9, 2014 02:36

@terdon yeah and it's a different script than the 2nd A

Braiam

@goldilocks fortran

goldilocks

Whoa. Might be my first glimpse.

slm

fortran 90

F90

terdon

@strugee he's not is he? What makes you think vim?

strugee

@terdon upper-left

casey

Mar 9, 2014 02:37

@strugee my mixing of vim and emacs is a peek into the strangeness of my mind

strugee

@casey traitor. I declare you Satan of the Church of Emacs! devil, begone!

terdon

Ah, OK, I used to do that too for a while, just ran vi instead of emacs -nw when not in X and only needing a quick edit

strugee

quick, someone kick him so it's more dramatic

casey

but in short, I've used vi/vim for the last 18 years (wow) but now use emacs quite a bit, mostly for org-mode, latex-preview and some other fun stuff

slm

are we still whining about vim?

2

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 02:38

@terdon I use nano for that... slinks away into the shadows

goldilocks

@slm There are two kinds of people in the world...

terdon

I now use emacs for pretty much everything text related.

casey

@terdon I'm getting there, but old habits die hard

terdon

@slm I assume you mean winning.

casey

when I need a quick edit in a terminal I type vim without even thinking about it

Braiam

Mar 9, 2014 02:39

yeh...

slm

casey like your desktop

casey

Thanks @slm

slm

are those windows bolted together or just bumped up next to each other?

casey

just bumped together and I have a kwin rule to not draw frames or any decorations on them

slm

@terdon now you're confused...w/ dreaming...

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 02:40

@casey The deal w/ mc for me is mostly about navigation and moving files from one directory to another. Note you can run vi or emacs from inside of it.

casey

so they just blend together with a little bit of my background (NASA astronomy pic of the day) blending through

strugee

look, whether we like vim or emacs, let's just all agree that they're better than gedit

2

terdon

@casey kwin? Wow, I had thought you'd be using a tiling WM if you do everything in terminals.

strugee

or ed

slm

ed

casey

Mar 9, 2014 02:42

@goldilocks good to know. One of the useful tools I never adopted it seems :)

goldilocks

@casey == CMB of the future?

strugee

@slm ?

slm

laughing at ed

strugee

haha now so am I

casey

@terdon awesome doesn't play nice with steam (or at least certain games) or I'd probably use it. I do on another machine

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 02:43

@casey why don't you use the mode that doesn't force tiling?

casey

and my other monitor is all floating chromium windows and other non-tiled stuff

slm

I thought it was funny the guy that made the diagram that I posted here actually saw my A, and made an account here and then took our feedback and added ltrace to the diagram

Brendan Gregg

21 2

48

A: Diagram of Linux kernel vs. performance tools?

I came across this diagram which shows exactly this. In the above you can see where tools such as strace, netstat, etc. interact with the Linux kernel's subsystems. I like this diagram because it succinctly shows where each tool latches on to the Linux kernel, which can be extremely helpful...

strugee

@terdon Terminator does have keybinding settings right? otherwise I'm screwed because of my keyboard

(no arrow keys)

goldilocks

@slm Forgot to start that Q&A. Truly nice.

terdon

@strugee yeah, right click=>preferences

casey

Mar 9, 2014 02:49

@strugee HHKB? Thats one of the few I can think of with no arrows

Braiam

poor @terdon

slm

@goldilocks Yeah I thought it was cool that he came over and saw the traffic we were driving to the site and then fixed it. Makes you feel good about ppl when they do stuff like that

goldilocks

@strugee <obscure public enemy joke>This is an X app right?</dubious>

Braiam

laptop @strugee?

terdon

@Braiam yeah, wow, it took a while to just paste a single file. Hell, the error message actually told 'im which line had the error

goldilocks

Mar 9, 2014 02:51

@slm "start that" -> "star that"

slm

ah, makes more sense now 8-)

I'm hoping this Q&A becomes my 100 UV'er

it got me the elusive star badge

unix.stackexchange.com/help/badges/38/…

damn strugee's got me trying to collect these obscure ones now 8-)

strugee

@casey Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional2 grey no keytops edition

Braiam

I don't have question badges... at all...

strugee

@terdon thanks. I'm only partway through the manpage

Braiam

btw, our only guy with a reversal badge... Gilles

strugee

Mar 9, 2014 02:57

@goldilocks ?

@slm really? awww

goldilocks

Terminator X

Terminator X is the stage name of Norman Rogers (born August 25, 1966), a retired American DJ best known for his work with rap group Public Enemy, which he left in 1999. He also produced two solo albums, Terminator X & The Valley of the Jeep Beets (1991) and Super Bad (1994), featuring Chuck D, Sister Souljah, Kool DJ Herc, the Cold Crush Brothers, and a bass music track by the Punk Barbarians. Retirement Since retiring from the music scene in 2003, Rogers used to run an ostrich stud farm in North Carolina. However, in 2010, Terminator X returned to the recording studio. Set for rel...

slm

Yeah when we were talking about trying to get the beta badges I started paying more attention to these too

I only was trying to get the 150 days of 200 pts

my toy OS/terminal/desktop/editor is bigger than yours

/dev/chat

Participants