Conversation started Nov 27, 2012 at 22:14.
Nov 27, 2012 22:14
are you there Izzy ?
Just ghosting around here -- Hi Pierre!
Hi, thanks for taking time to discuss about my problem btw ;)
No prob -- that's what this place is about :)
sure
it's true Samsung has no legal power to void the warranty based on the fact I flashed/rooted my device.
according to european laws at least
For those questions around security (and legal stuff as well), I really can recommend the book I mentioned there. I know it almost by heart, as I translated it (German edition is just out for a month now ;)
Exactly. That's what was made quite clear by the EUGH recently (European Law Court).
Lucky us! :)
Nov 27, 2012 22:18
but I know they like to do it anyway, because they know a very small amount of customer will take the time to fight
are you german ?
@Izzy Yay. Thanks for all the work :D
Yes, I'm German. And (unfortunately) also yes to the other argument.
j/k ;) Every vote is appreciated, of course
I will surely take a look at the book yes. I am interested in both Android and Security domains.
@OliverSalzburg As you were in a similar situation then: Does it really make so much difference having 10k+ or bein mod? What does count to you in this regard?
Nov 27, 2012 22:19
@Izzy Huge difference
@PierreEspenan May I ask where you are from?
@Izzy : here is a link you might find interesting btw : fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.html
@OliverSalzburg Oh? Can you explain a bit?
@Izzy The biggest difference is that you no longer raise flags, you handle them...
...all of them
And you have to judge them
Sure -- that part was clear to me :)
Nov 27, 2012 22:20
And it's not like before where you simply raise a flag and pass the problem to the mods, now you have to deal with it
And it's tough
@Izzy : from the other side of the Rhin ;)
And the "judge" is the part I'm afraid I'm not that good at...
Because you only see garbage all day long
Urgs...
And every vote is binding. That takes a lot of getting used to
Like, close and delete votes
Everything is instant
Nov 27, 2012 22:21
@PierreEspenan Ah -- OK, I see. So we're neighbours :)
Even while reviewing
Ooops So no more "peers", right?
So other go through 100 questions and voting to close without giving it a second thought... you have to make the final judgement - every single time
@Izzy : we are ^^ which city are you ? I'm from Toulouse
And there is literally no glory besides the diamond next to your name. Because people, in general, hate you for your decisions.
So, yeah, it rocks! :D
In all seriousness though, it can be quite taxing and it is mostly actual, repetitive work.
Nov 27, 2012 22:24
@PierreEspenan Oh, I'm not that close to the border -- I was just speaking in terms of countries. I'm from Munich.
doesn't matter, you have a diamond next to your name, that's all what count :P
@OliverSalzburg Wait -- you like to be hated? Hm, giving that a second thought: It helps to be masochist when becoming a mod? #-)
@Izzy You don't know what you're getting into beforehand
It is impossible to imagine that :D
@PierreEspenan now you missed the part further up in the discussion: I'm not running for the diamond. To put it in "flowery words": I'm checking what's best for the community, and if I can cope with that (live up to that expetation).
@Izzy : Sure, I didn't imply that (or I didn't want to, at least ^^)
Nov 27, 2012 22:27
Didn't accuse you of that either, Pierre :)
@Izzy : my advice : don't care about the community, just run for the diamond ! (just kidding)
@OliverSalzburg I guess there are two parts I'd rather skip: that "finality part", and the "from above" (don't know how to explain that... I'm not that "authority person", if you know what I mean).
And, depending on how strongly you feel about your site/community, all the work you put into the mod work can be quite rewarding if you believe that it actually achieves something. You'll finally get the chance to really work on the site and the community itself.
@PierreEspenan You know what I'm afraid of? Not of nominating myself. I'm afraid the folks would really elect me...
A major drop in your rep gain is usually accompanied by it :D
Nov 27, 2012 22:30
@OliverSalzburg I have the feeling I'm already doing that ("rewarding...achieve something...")
why would you be afraid to be elected ? because of the work to achieve once elected ?
I see my answers help people. I see I can help to keep the site clean. My flags are (mostly) found "helpful". My tagging helps find things (and "tag cleanup" as well -- see Meta)
@OliverSalzburg : are you german too ?
Because of the responsibility
Nov 27, 2012 22:32
If I nominate myself, people elect me, and I accept -- I'd feel obliged.
Right now, to put it in easy terms (don't take it too literally hence): If I'm "not in the mood", I take a day off.
@Izzy I really like being a mod. But when I was elected, I was shocked. It somehow felt like a whole different site and the way I contributed to the site changed drastically.
As "elected mod", I'd have a duty.
@PierreEspenan Yes
@OliverSalzburg so how do you feel about the "duty" part?
@Izzy Strongly. But I also don't know how much work there actually is on Android Enthusiasts compared to Super User
Like, today, we had 100 flags on Super User
On Stack Overflow it's in the 50k region, most likely
Nov 27, 2012 22:35
Well, I can imagine it's important. But maybe you need to say to yourself that's not critically important. You are not running for Merkel replacement :D And if you fail, some german guy told me 2 hours ago "there's always a tomorrow" ^^
@OliverSalzburg Yeah, compared with SO it's rahter "leisure time" here, I guess...
how many mods is there for Stack Overflow and how many for Android Enthusiasts ?
@PierreEspenan Not sure, would have to check
@PierreEspenan Ooops... Point for you. (Man, hit me with my own words... +1 for that ;)
@Izzy One thing I underestimated was meta. As a mod you get a notification for every post on your meta. And you're somewhat expected to handle it
And you don't want to leave your users waiting, do you? :D
And they always ask the most complicated questions that take 30 minutes to answer Oo
Nov 27, 2012 22:38
@OliverSalzburg Exactly -- that's #3. Sure I posted on Meta, and discussed a bit there -- but not nearly as much as "on the site".
You got me: No, I don't want to leave anybody waiting. So that's again a part of the "duty" segment...
@Izzy I was almost lucky because slhck was elected as well. And that dude is an animal :D
So it's a quite interesting assignment. If I hadn't to work for money, I might even like it...
Yeah, I can imagine :) Even though I'm rarely at SU, that name is known to me :)
Maybe @ce4 was reading along here a bit (or wants to scroll through it later), as he's also "thinking it over". Good points you gave us, Oliver -- thanks a lot!
Have you ever read this?
27
Q: How does the site look like to a moderator?

Amith KKThe site has special features for moderators. Can I see how the site looks like to the average moderator(tools and stuff)

Oh, c00l -- must read that! TNX!
ce4
ce4
...reading
Nov 27, 2012 22:43
The key line to take with you:
> I'm not really allowed to show you any more than this but it should give you an idea about what's in there.
Now doesn't that sound intriguing? ;)
Btw: One thing I'd really like is MERGING -- but that's part of the "regular" mod tools as well, right? Dooh! 423 more rep to that... ;)
@ce4 Yepp -- just thought to drop you a note, could be interesting for you as well :)
@Izzy No, merging is only available to mods and is only to be used rarely. It's hard to reverse
...in case of a mishap
Sure, like "split and merge" in a forum. Can get messy ;)
Control over tags is also very limited. You can merge tags, that's it :P
You can't delete tags
It's so frustrating
Hm -- you do not just say this to get me? ;) And as for your quote -- isn't that a repetition of the first sentence:
> If we told you, we'd have to kill you.
Nov 27, 2012 22:45
By the way (I know I am off topic, and I'm sorry to disturb your discussion), I am a student in computing sciences (currently in my 5th year of studies), and I am looking for a 6-months internship. It has been a while since I am attracted to Germany (and that's why I am taking the opportunity to have a word with you about that). Maybe would you have any advice or tips to give me, or even maybe the companies you are working for are looking for interns ? :)
You can't delete them? Or you are not supposed to?
42
Q: Moderators should be able to remove / burninate a tag themselves

slhckWe're doing some spring cleaning on Super User, which involves disambiguating tags, merging them, creating synonyms etc. However, one of the most troublesome things is removing a tag. Often, it's easy enough to agree that a tag should be burninated completely, possibly even blacklisted. But the...

@Izzy You can't at all. You have to ask a dev to do it
@PierreEspenan Our company consists of 2 people. My boss and myself :\
Oh... That would have been one point, an important one, to me. IMHO existing tags (even empty ones) tend to "intrigue" some people to use them -- the very same people would be hesistant to create them.
@Izzy Empty tags get auto-deleted after 24hrs though. So we usually call for mass-edits on meta. Then people are asked to double-check the questions, improve quality, then remove the problematic tag
So an average user can simply create... Oh, better not name it, for the sake of Google search -- don't want to wake sleeping dogs (hm, somebody said that already today...)
Nov 27, 2012 22:48
We also usually adjust the tag excerpt to make it clear that it is being removed and should not be used
@OliverSalzburg I don't really care about the size of the company. I wasn't expecting the head of EADS being there tonight :D
I only bug the devs about important stuff. Like typos in the names of CSS classes or replacing a space with a   somewhere in the page
Who reads those excerpts when just having "an important question"... But 24h is something one can live with. To me it rather felt like 24 weeks...
@Izzy you are definitely a "quoted-able" person :D
@PierreEspenan Heheh, yeah, well we work 300km apart and at home :D I also can't really recommend any companies... Do you have a specific area in mind where you would like to work?
Nov 27, 2012 22:51
@PierreEspenan I'm freelance, running my own company. But I know if you do not expect any payment, it shouldn't be that hard to find a place ;)
@Izzy Could be longer. I'm not 100% certain
I roughly remember somebody mention something like 4 weeks, but I'm not sure.
It also maybe this varies from site to site. Not sure about that either.
As some "rep requirements" seem to be different on small sites (lower req) and bigger sites (higher rep needed for XYZ)
> Any tags not currently in use, or that happen to get orphaned through unusual means (rollback, merge, etc), are removed every 24 hours by a background process.
32
A: Should We Zap The Low-Occurrence Tags?

Jeff AtwoodI don't know -- can anyone make a case for these single use tags existing for more than a month? edit: I am convinced this is a useful cleanup task, to remove these orphaned tags from the system automatically. I've implemented a routine that removes tags created more than 6 months ago which have...

Site-specific or global to SX?
@Izzy Beta sites have very low limits, then come the "normal" sites with regular limits and then comes SO...
ce4
ce4
Nov 27, 2012 22:55
Hi @Oliver, @Izzy just caught up
@Izzy Should be global
@ce4 Cheers :)
Haha
@OliverSalzburg Yes I have a specific area in mind. It's Germany :D More seriously, if I had to move to Germany I would have to take an appartement, so I don't care where it could be
@Izzy For an internship, I'm just looking for something allowing me to pay flat, food, life and providing me another great abroad experience ;)
Anyway, thanks for the answers ;)
ce4
ce4
Oliver, thanks for the insights!
@OliverSalzburg OK, tnx!
I urgently need to merge some tags. 2 more tags, and I'd get the Globalist badge -- but 19 more tags for AE to allow for that...
@PierreEspenan Try to get an internship with a global player like HP or some other horrible company like that :D
ce4
ce4
Nov 27, 2012 22:57
@Pierre: IT in France is centred around Paris and Nice, right?
Heer it's Munich and Berlin, and some others
@Izzy You mean Generalist?
@OliverSalzburg Why "horrible" ? too big ?
@PierreEspenan oh, there're also prices to consider. The money needed for 20m² here in Munich would allow for 60m² in Berlin...
@PierreEspenan They treat people like machines. Other than that, it'll be a great stepping stone
ce4
ce4
Big companies tend Tod habe Boeing work for internships
Nov 27, 2012 22:58
@OliverSalzburg Ooops... Yes, of course #-)
ce4
ce4
argh, need to switch autocorrection off
LOL
> Oh and there's a champagne room full of rainbows and strippers. But we don't get to use that unless we're flag-free for more than 20 minutes... We'll get to go in there... one day :(
ce4
ce4
Again. Big companies tend to have boring work for internships
My last employment was for a medium-sized company. They kicked me off because they found out they can find someone to do the work for free. Though he needed to be replaced all 3 months or so...
Nov 27, 2012 23:01
@ce4 : What a belief :O Do you want some more ? :D Paris is a city full of pretentious c*nts, and Nice a city full of old retired who fought against germans, where people from Paris spend their holidays :D
(no offense ^^)
ce4
ce4
lol. Go to Berlin. It's fun there, besides work and costs are somewhat lower than other capitals
^^ ack
@ce4 If you want to learn something, join some OSS project. If you want something nice on your resume... At least that's my take on it :)
ce4
ce4
And you don't have to learn German to get along there
Hm, besides: There's the AndroidPIT HQ in Berlin :)
They even have a French branch. But all in Berlin...
Nov 27, 2012 23:05
@all taking notes of what you're saying
@ce4 I have a scholar level of German, but I do want to improve it. But yes, for the beginning and in general, it's nice to rely on english
@OliverSalzburg One more Q: With just the mod tools, can I migrate a Q to another site?
Well, when I entered my school, they told me "now, you are half a human, half a machine"
so I guess that's ok with me :D
ce4
ce4
I'm located in Ulm, BTW. EADS is huge here, DT has an office and there is a carrier. We have a Mercedes research center, Nokia was here (closed their office this summer/fall) and Intel is around (doing intel compilers here)
That's something I tap on quite often: I'd recommend to migrate, and the user agrees. So what to do then: a) wait until 4 more votes are cast, b) flag...
ce4
ce4
There's more, can be looked up.
Nov 27, 2012 23:11
DT ?
ce4
ce4
Deutsche telekom
In Munich we also have Mercedes, and BMW. Plus some of the big carriers, and O2 as another big company. MS has a big place here as well.
Oh, that was the "big carrier" I meant, btw ;)
ce4
ce4
Lol
But as I wrote: Munich is quite an expensive place. Some people working here cannot afford a flat in town.
@Izzy Obvious troll is obvious :P
ok
ce4
ce4
Nov 27, 2012 23:13
Berlin will probably be most fun.
Btw: Skip Frankfurt/Main. Just banks, finance, and all the "rich" stuff -- expensive place -- and they don't like to pay anything. Got the most "funny" offers from there (which sounded like "work double-time for half-pay"...)
I know Toulouse is a sister city of Dusserdorf, but I don't exactly know what it means
Partnership.
Some kind of "cultural work-together".
Yes, but what does it imply for someone like me ?
concretely
Nov 27, 2012 23:15
Oh -- a lot of... hot air, I guess.
Yep, seems the same to me
ce4
ce4
@Izzy finance/insurance companies pay really well, but they're often a weird work place, from what I've heard from fellow freelancers
That "sister" stuff is rather like blah, blah, and some delegations here, some party there. Never saw much more. Rather step-sister stuff.
@ce4 they offered 35€/h all-in for a SENIOR Oracle DBA! I told them, if they'd find two, they'd send them to me so I can stop working...
That was one of the "big finance institutes" over there.
ce4
ce4
More like 90, from my exp.
Give a name, or it didn't happen
Nov 27, 2012 23:18
"A penny not spent is a penny saved."
ce4
ce4
I'm talking about new projects, though. Not operations
@PierreEspenan That was around 2005. I laughed my a** off. Need to check if I kept the mail (or fell on the delete button in shock)
So you all agree Berlin would be a better place than München ?
what do you think of Düsseldorf ?
@Izzy don't bother you, I was just kidding !
@PierreEspenan Thanks -- I was just browsing my old mail. It would take some time to find that specific one again...
And as for the place: You find me in a conflict. I was born in Berlin, and currently live in München...
Both are decent places. But München is more expensive. Both places have their pros and cons. In my business, I couldn't make a living in BErlin -- that's why I'm in München...
Nov 27, 2012 23:26
Mmmmh ok
Unfortunately, Berlin is focussing on MS products (e.g. SQL Server) -- while I'm an Oracle DBA and prefer working with Linux/Unix...
Anyway, if I found something I guess I won't found 36 somethings. So I won't necessarily have much choice ;)
If you get a good place in Berlin, I'd say go there. But... Exactly :)
^^
do you hang out here often guys ?
@Izzy Yes, but only the preset selection. Mods can migrate to any site, but it's expected to ask the mods of the target site first. Migrations are supposed to be the exception rather than the rule.
People get real mad of you migrate a "bad" question to their site ;D
Nov 27, 2012 23:31
@PierreEspenan I'm usually always logged-in here. But I'm not permanently sitting in front of my screen -- so a message might take some time to register :)
@OliverSalzburg Preset is fine -- in 90% of the cases it's SO (dev questions). So that's fine with me.
Btw, from the link you posted:
> apart from the ability to actually affirm or invalidate moderator flags, plus some small things like the ability to email users directly, 10K users can do pretty much the same things.
"email directly" (or rather some kind of PM) is something I miss around here from time to time...
And agreed: You don't empty your waste bin just "over the fence" :)
@Izzy I don't know if it changed since he wrote it (I wasn't a mod back then), if he's intentionally lying, doesn't know better, ...
I'm rather concerned about principially good questions, which are simply OT here ;)
Hm, 2012-01-04
@Izzy That's two weeks before I actively started participating on SE at all
Nevermind. I also learned better from you meanwhile. From his point of view (i.e. the things he is concerned about), the statement might be true, though.
Ok. I'm going to bed. I may come back to annoy everybody with new questions :) Anyway, thanks a lot for your time guys ! Auf Wiedersehen !
Nov 27, 2012 23:36
@PierreEspenan You're welcome anytime! Next time you get another chapter of my book x)
 
Conversation ended Nov 27, 2012 at 23:36.