Full Chat

Stack Exchange

Feb 15, 2012 02:44

0

A: Per-application audio control that works in Windows 7 64 Bit

Volumouse seems to do what you want (with the mouse wheel) but you will have to click the More button and choose "Change the volume for application in focus" under Windows 7/Vista/2008 Options. It functions in Firefox, Opera, Steam and itself but fails in Chrome (probably because of the multiple ...

Psycogeek

The same way it is failing for you in Chrome, it is failing for me in many of the programs I use. Did you try it when a game is running full screen? I used ALT only, tried WIN only, and even made various combinations of 3 keys. but the programs themselves have the Scoll going on in THEM. Like virutal Dub, the video frame advances still, the browser still scrolls, and Qdir still scrolls files. Could it have anything to do with many of them being 32bit?

ADTC

Hmm, does it work correctly in other programs? I guess Volumouse is not going to help then. Sorry! Btw, just curious, why do you need per-application volume control? I find that master-control is much better except in certain rare situations.

Psycogeek

i.stack.imgur.com/903Fm.png <-- this picture is what it looks like with my programs opened, the short list of programs that have sound. If there was a way to shrink that? it would be a possibility. Not all of those things need to be controlled. But Even when I SET the applications, some of the tools couldnt find them. The Gadgets, they are supposed to be Sidebar.exe ? The system sounds I tests as Explorer.exe I tried to grab the windows with the window thing, and that did not work. I will put up a list of programs.

ADTC

It seems you multitask a lot. But we can listen to and comprehend continuous sound from only one source at a time. (Just saying.) Anyway I think if you can't find anything better, perhaps the keyboard shortcut on a shortcut to Volume Mixer might be handy. Let's see if anyone else has something better.

Psycogeek

In XP, the mixer could shrink down to a smaller version of itself , it was Alt-S or Shift-S or something. Is there any way to shrink the win7 64bit one?

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 02:44

I've never seen this shrunk down smaller version of XP's volume mixer before. Could that be a bloatware installed by your computer manufacturer? The only small version I know of is the one that pops up when you click the volume icon in systray, but it just controls the main volume (you can roll the wheel on it, at least in Win7).

I found out what you're referring to. Apparently there actually is a compact version of Volume Mixer in XP (I never knew!). The shortcut is Ctrl-S, and it doesn't work anymore. PS: You can get an app called always on top to keep the volume mixer on top (if that helps).

Psycogeek

The shrunk 3rd party sound Mixer panels that we used for XP do also work in windows 7 . BUT the ones that worked in XP do not use Per-Application methods that windows 7 uses. There might be one out there that has a solid per-app mixer panel that would replace the windows 7 one. When looking on the web though, there are lists pages long, of ones that do not, making any one that does, hard to find.

Cool

ADTC

"The shrunk 3rd party sound Mixer panels that we used for XP do also work in windows 7 ." What do you mean?

I tried Ctrl-S but nothing happens.

Psycogeek

There are 3rd party programs , like sound control and Zvolume specific, zvolume had skins that would make a volume control 2 inches in size,

ADTC

Ah, I thought you're talking about some standard Windows feature.

Psycogeek

These same replacement pannel items will work in windows 7, but they only ever controlled, the cards own volume items, for both playback and record. Items like the cards main volume, AUX , CD, Mic, What You Hear, etc.

so there were amasing replacements in XP that can be used in 7, but they never did do Per-Application controlling.

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 02:52

Oh, so what you want is a replacement panel that can control the volume of applications (like Vista/7 standard mixer can).

Psycogeek

It starts back a bit. Originally the idea was to turn my NumberPad into a audio mixer. Hold the Alt key, and the number pad buttons become V-Up V-Mute V-Down . this worked with the limited XP , i put in WAV CD And AUX. in xp these items went into the sound card analog. In windows 7 they are all digital only.

I try to set up windows 7 the same way. number pad keys (with alt down) would do Main Focused , and One other program that wont focus, like say system sounds.

ADTC

Okay, so what's the IDEAL setup you want?

Psycogeek

That is my ideal, to set it back the way i have been using it for 10 years in XP

so that started with sound control, wont do per-app. Then next was Nircmd, windows becomes a bitch about where the shortcuts are placed to do global keys, and finnaly i get something. The Taskbar pops up at each click, and it also looses focus arbitrarily.

ADTC

But 10 years ago in XP, did it do per-app? If yes, how? The per-app control is a new feature in Vista/7. I thought it requires some underlying structures to be in place deep within the Windows system, something that didn't exist in WinXP.

Psycogeek

Next was Volumouse , I set MAIN to on edge of screen, and that worked good. (i am trying everything to see what works) I tried putting Main on over the taskbar. Both of these already started to fail. usable but as i pull away from the Locations of activation, it still is in volume control.

@ADTC Correct, per-app did not exist at all in XP, But routing the signals through a sound card many ways did , in ANALOG. now I think windows 7 only does the cd via Digital.

Plus the TV card that i had was also analog, now that also is done digital , and through per-app controls. (note, i dont have a tv card anymore obsoleted by windows 7)

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 03:09

So back then you used to control each route (main volume, AUX , CD, Mic, What You Hear, etc.) separately with the NumPad? But now you want to do the same with NumPad but control each application?

Psycogeek

You got it. And the only way to get to all the apps now, would be to Specifically Call each app, and have Many many more keyshorts , or have FOCUS to work right.

ADTC

Yes, because the app list will keep changing as you close and re-launch apps. So it's not very reliable for a 3rd party mixer app to assign shortcuts to a specific app.

Psycogeek

Yes, no way to say this mixer item. add to that the Text they are referred to is changing. I have no idea what problems that would cause.

Like Q-dir top title bar changes to the folder it is in, and so to does the mixer item. The broswer title picks up on the title that is in its bar, the web site i am on.

ADTC

But I think Volumouse does a pretty good job. However, I suggest you to try the default setup - hold Alt key and roll the mouse. Don't try moving the mouse to the edge or corner of screen as you can't use the mouse to focus on a window then.

I would also suggest you setup custom shortcuts in Volumouse for specific applications (like Chrome in my case) where the Alt-wheel doesn't work. It may take some 10 minutes to setup, but I think if you take the time to do it, you could eventually use it effectively.

Of course, set Volumouse's Alt-wheel to act on the focused window only (by default it acts on the master volume).

"Like Q-dir top title bar changes to the folder it is in, and so to does the mixer item." << I think Volumouse can handle this well by referencing the executable filename of Q-dir instead of the window title (PS: I haven't yet tried what I'm suggesting above, except for Alt-wheel).

Psycogeek

Ok the ALT wheel is not working, or working sporaticaly. so you know how to fix that. I tried Win, and then went crasy requiring ALT-Shift Alt-Ctrl Alt Win Ctrl. some programs "the program itself would always scroll"

i even upped the priority thinking that might help.

Call up the specific program, there are 12 Slots. so If that would work there IS enough slots to survive. I could not get control of the programs using the "insert the Executable" then I tried snaging thier windows.

Ok i still got it installed :-) I will get it down to ONE item.

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 03:27

The Win key is not good because it's usually reserved and intercepted by Windows before it's passed to other applications (which makes it very useful to switch to Windows when playing fullscreen games).

Psycogeek

yes it worked only in the programs it already worked in, with the huge caveat of the start menu popping up sometimes,

ADTC

that's the problem of win key. i'd rather go with alt.

anyway i'll try volumouse custom setup (as i suggested) with chrome and see how it goes.

Psycogeek

I tried that, but now that your here, make sure i am doing it correct.

"the specific application is focused" ?

ADTC

i'll be using x64 version of volumouse btw coz i have a x64 desktop. right now i'm on an old x86 laptop and it has no per-app control even though i'm using windows 7. i think the sound card is too old to support it.

give me 5 minutes

Psycogeek

me too great

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 03:55

Hey, ok. Here's what works for me if I want to do a custom setup for Chrome.

@Psycogeek Of course you don't have to use the Hot Keys setup. You can choose any other shortcut. The important thing is to define the exe correctly in the Windows 7/Vista/2008 Options section. Note however that you must not use the drop target above. That will only fetch a specific window, not a specific application.\

Psycogeek

testing

i see you put in the whole path to the program.

ADTC

Another thing to note while the Red setup only works for the application in focus, the Blue setup works for controlling Chrome's volume anywhere (you don't have to focus on Chrome).

yes, you can get full path by opening Task Manager, and in process tab, right-click the process and select "Open File Location". Easy and handy.

Let me test if it works for just "chrome.exe" (not full path)

Cool it works for just "chrome.exe" (no need to put full path)

But full path will avoid any potential confusion. It's better to have full path unless the path keeps changing. Chrome's path will remain constant.

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 04:12

Ohh $^&@# :-) you mean your using Volumouse to Make Keyboard shorts

ADTC

Um yea.. what did you think?

You don't have to use Hot Keys (keyboard shortcuts). I just chose Hot Keys for testing. You can also choose like Ctrl-wheel to control one custom app. Ctrl-Shift-wheel for another custom app etc. [As long as you can remember which is which :D]

But the best thing is you don't have to switch to an app to control its volume.

Psycogeek

I think it could work more often. Long other story , i have truelaunch taskbar, and it allowed for keyshorts (then i am using nircmd) but that program didnt allow for the Num-Lock to be on.

ok Main volume working with keyshortcuts via volumouse CHECK \|

ADTC

Hmm, I don't think Truelaunch taskbar is necessary in our situation here. But is it conflicting with Volumouse? Anyway out of curiosity, how would you determine which app to control with what shortcuts? I would go with hotkeys (1 for Chrome, 2 for another app, 3 for yet another appp, etc. with Ctrl for decrease (faster) and Ctrl-Shift for increase)

Psycogeek

Truelunch was just another Bug up my butt that had a different problem.

Ok Focus Volume working with Keyshorts via volumouse CHECK \|

Desktop sidebar/gadget focus working using keyboard shortcut method CHECK \|

MCP, browser , virtual dub CHECK \|

that just leaves system sounds

ADTC

I'm getting confused.. lol.. mind sending me over your volumouse.cfg file once you're done configuring?

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 04:25

I am only testing ONE item, I just applied your method, that you were apparentally trying to explain back in the comments, and it is working :-)

ADTC

you have 12 slots :)

Psycogeek

"use Hot-key instead of Mouse wheel" & "Change Volume for application in focus"

No mute, but now 9-10 instead of 4-10 programs are holding focus and changing based on per-app

ADTC

So you're not testing "Change volume for specified .exe file"?

Psycogeek

Focus is WORKING, using this Hotkey method

It is the reverse of what i thought i was going to use Volumouse for, and similar to autohotkey method . It is working in many situations. If i can just get any kind of handle on the One "system sounds" items, then i think the rest is possible.

ADTC

Using the .exe option (along with the focus option) has two advantages: (1) You can use it for applications where the focus option fails. (2) You can control application volume without giving focus to that application. [Anyway I'm just saying :) ]

I'm trying to find a hook for system sounds

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 04:31

Hey getting focus to work and STAY was a Lot of the problem.

ADTC

Lol.. paper-clip office assistant just popped in this chat asking me "It looks like you're trying to find a hook for system sounds. Would you like help?"

I can't find any process that can hook to the System Sounds slider. I think it's internal.

Psycogeek

oh, i thiught that there might be an executable that could be defined, i cant get focus to land on it.

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 04:50

what do you get when you focus on the taskbar?

Psycogeek

nothing

ADTC

Guess you'll have to live without it :(

Psycogeek

I can always put up another question :-) "how to get hold of the executable? responcible for system sounds" uhh, windows audio service

waud.sys or something, i will work on it.

ADTC

I have tried all the running executables that are tied to Windows (not other applications). None of them hooks to the System Sounds slider.

I'm going to email Nirsoft if they can find anything (they know exactly how Volumouse works internally so they may have a better chance).

Psycogeek

because these pictures, and better defining "using volumouse for generating keyboard shortcuts for audio control" is working better than ALT, i think you should stuff it in your answer, which i am bumping up.

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 05:05

Hmm... we chat a lot, so I'm gonna have a hard time paraphrasing it all. I'll give it a try.

Do you want me to Bcc you the email?

Psycogeek

the basics is the pictures. and in the chat you got my head out of my butt about "Using volumouse for Making Keyboard shortcuts for audio control, which are then used From the Keyboard."

ADTC

Hahaha! Ok I'll add it up.

ADTC

Feb 15, 2012 05:26

Apparently the drop target is for "The specified window is focused" and "Mouse is over specified window" options. Nirsoft should have disabled the drop target for all other options to avoid confusion, but they only disabled the text boxes.

Psycogeek

Yes it was a bit confusing. a Wizzard :-) would step a person through. i Hate wizzards :-)

When I used the grab the window method, it picks up sidebar gadgets as "basic window" I was thinking that isnt going to work, but tried it anyway.

ADTC

Yea, the drop target result has no effect unless one of those two options is used. And they are only used to determine where to control volume, not which volume to control. Anyway the gadgets have an exe file (I guess you figured that out already).

Alright, I have edited the answer. Please check it out and tell me what you think.

Psycogeek

Yes gadgets all run under sidbar.exe

ADTC

How is the edit?

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 05:45

You gotta add in. Using Volumouse for Keyboard shortcuts: the settings "Using Hot-Keys Instead of mouse control" And "Change the volume for application in Focus" Did work on psycogeeks programs , as discussed in chat. (the Blue method but with focus selected instead of specific app)

ADTC

I'll try to fit it in.

Psycogeek

argg, everytime i try to write stuff, i want it to say it all , but then it gets long winded. . . . . That Switched the Method , that I was attempting, and works in many more situations.

ADTC

Using Volumouse with keyboard shortcuts: Combining the settings "Use hot-keys instead of mouse wheel" (blue method) and "Change the volume for application in focus" (red method) worked better for Psycogeek as the hot-keys were functioning in applications where the mouse wheel didn't.

Ok?

Psycogeek

I was only thinking "mouse" and wheel, with volumouse, even when you said try the hot-keys, because I had tried all kinds of hotkeys, just not those.

ADTC

Lol, yay me :P

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 05:53

that it.

ADTC

Ok I have put it in, towards the end.

Psycogeek

the pics are great, and the color coding really usefull.

ADTC

Thanks :) Anyway shall we clean up the comment stream below my answer?

Psycogeek

delete all?

ADTC

No

Wait

Delete off the comments shaded red (they are saved in this chat anyway), keep only the ones shaded green.

Ok? You can only delete your own comments (unless you have the privilege to delete mine)

Seems like u deleted yours

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 06:00

that works

now you can pull whatever of your comments .

ADTC

done. now it looks nice. the comments are still in this chat. :)

Psycogeek

OK, no accept today, but this particular problem is worth a lot to me, so mabey you see big bounty added, that will rise the question (sort of unnessisarily) because they require I wait a day to award a bounty.

ADTC

You're putting a bounty on it?

Psycogeek

I have many things to test still, but this was one of my "if anybody figures this shi| out " i got a bounty for them.

ADTC

Anyway it's all up to you. But I'm glad we found something that's workable for you.

Psycogeek

Feb 15, 2012 06:08

I have spent about 2-3 DAYS over months (of time) trying to get this to work right.

ADTC

Did our chat help you get closer to your goal?

Psycogeek

Reading through hundreds of pages of web stuff, mostly repeated info about the existance of , not How-To

@ADTC it cleared up what you were trying to tell me, then the tests worked. I am still going to set it all up for real, and use it for real.

That last item, the system sounds, if i find that bugger, i will add it to the comments on your answer.

ADTC

Sure :)

Discussion between ADTC and Psycogeek

Participants