Conversation started Aug 1, 2015 at 7:00.
Damkerng T.
Damkerng T.
Aug 1, 2015 07:00
nods -- I'm reviewing the present perfect and someone wrote that one use is for "a finished action with a result in the present", which is confusing, I think.
Though it's more or less correct.
It doesn't explain why we use:
> She's hurt her leg.
But not:
> *She's hurt her leg yesterday.
I think this is common for many grammar books.
The explanation pattern is usually something like:
> X can be used for A, B, C.
Which is fine.
But if the learner continues reading soon they may find this in a later chapter:
> Y can be used for B, D, E, and F.
No wonder why the learner can't decide when to use X and when to use Y when the situation is B.
Other kind of problem is when a learner stop reading before they get to the later chapter, so they know only:
> X can be used for A, B, and C.
Chances are, the learner will think that when they the situation is B, they must use X.
And anyone who uses Y is wrong.
This is probably the most common root of all problems in many learners.
The real explanation in a textbook could be even worse, because they don't make it clear about "X can be used for ..."
Sometimes, we may find this in a book:
> "We use the present perfect for A, B, and C."
This is unclear.
(Though it's perfectly true and correct.)
Technically, "We use the present perfect for A, B, and C." is not the same as "We can use the present perfect for A, B, and C."
I think I'd prefer something like:
"We use the present perfect for A, B, and C. This is by no means to say that the present perfect is the only possible choice for A, B, and C."
And then the book elaborates. :-)
I think we can come up with a better set of rules that allows us to say:
"We use the present perfect for A1, A4, B2, B3, and C2, C3, C4, C7."
But it'll be very complicated.
Though being very specific may allow us to map use cases to grammar rules one-to-one.
^Oh, that's actually important. Use cases should come first, not grammar rules.
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Note to self: The difference between 'He's been to Paris' and 'He's gone to Paris' should be obvious to the student if we take care of the experiential sense well enough. They should realize by themselves (though may need to be reminded or even pointed out) that when people have two choices 'be' and 'go', they would normally use the choices for different subtle meanings (i.e. one sense will block the other), and that's why 'have been to' and 'have gone to' mean what they mean.
​
My advice (I'm a non-native speaker): Don't bother to ask why. Just keep aligning the words with their senses in your mind until their senses are natural to you. Give special care to the uses that surprise you (because they interfere with your first language). The concept of abstract vs. concrete nouns may be helpful. — Damkerng T. 20 secs ago
 
Conversation ended Aug 1, 2015 at 7:28.