Discussion on 1.17/1.18

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:07

Ugh, Mojang had really cool ore distributions and now they've ruined them

1.17 just keeps getting worse

Or I guess 1.18

Unrelated String

damn

smarnav

@Razetime not anything really, just was thinking about (coding) languages

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms What's that bad about them?

I think they've made emeralds too common at higher y values, and diamonds being more common the lower down you go is a bit odd, but otherwise it isn't too bad

Redwolf Programs

They used to be super cool, the metals were all around the same depth and the gems like lapis, diamond, and emerald were below that.

A username

True

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:10

Now it's just kinda of blended and same-y

A username

Apparently y=5 is the way to go

but lava sucks

Redwolf Programs

The aquifers are going to be soooo badddd

caird coinheringaahing

tbh tho, I've happy enough for an actual caves and cliffs update that I don't really care what they do to the ores

A username

Aquifers? You think?

caird coinheringaahing

1.17 was basically nothing

A username

Jul 14, 2021 02:11

GOOOOOOATS

Redwolf Programs

1.13's water caves are already annoying, the aquifers are going to be the worst for mining

A username

@RedwolfPrograms Agreed, fortunately they're not that common

Unrelated String

wait minecraft has aquifers now

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Given how often flooded caves are IRL, I kinda like it

Redwolf Programs

I know how the 1.8 people felt when they refused to update to 1.9 :/

Unrelated String

Jul 14, 2021 02:12

dwarf fortress moment?

Redwolf Programs

I guess I'll be stuck on 1.16 from now on

A username

1.17 does mean you can get 2x iron/gold ore

Fortune 3

Redwolf Programs

1.17 and 1.18 are the laziest most downright disrespectful pieces of garbage mojang has ever produced, and I doubt any future updates will make up for that.

@Ausername Which is bad

The metals were different for a reason

A username

Wdym?

caird coinheringaahing

Water and oceans definitely could do with more work, and I like the way Mojang has gone with water underground

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:13

It added variety and nerfed fortune. Making it more OP and homogenous just makes it boring all around.

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms 1.17 was very low effort, I'll give you that

A username

@RedwolfPrograms Glow squid make it all worth it though.

Redwolf Programs

Not really

We could've got something cool, instead we get a squid...that makes light

A username

But glow squid...

Redwolf Programs

It doesn't even make block light

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:14

1.18 looks like a completely new game tbh

Unrelated String

glow squid seem pretty lame

caird coinheringaahing

Glow squid is shit

Redwolf Programs

Everything above ground in 1.18 is good, and I like it. Then it gets bad.

Really bad.

A username

caird coinheringaahing

There's literally nothing new added by the glow squid

@RedwolfPrograms Thoughts on the warden?

A username

Jul 14, 2021 02:14

Hey quys, did you know that var is a datatype now?

Unrelated String

weren't glow squid voted in by dream stans for some reason or am i misremebering something

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's not even implemented yet, is it?

Or am I behind

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Not yet

Unrelated String

@Ausername lmao

Redwolf Programs

I think it'd be cool if it dropped an eye of ender, but I don't think they're going to do that based on what they've said

Right now it just seems like a way to make the trailer look cool, and now they're stuck trying to make this "feature" actually fit in with the game

smarnav

Jul 14, 2021 02:16

@cairdcoinheringaahing the glow squid added glow-ink

not much else, though

caird coinheringaahing

My thoughts: 1.17 was incredibly low effort that started out being amazing and turned into a shitshow because they realised how big it would be. 1.18 looks to be a completely new game, similar to how 1.9 changed the End and 1.16 changed the Nether. I have high hopes for it. The only bad things I can imagine for it are the re-distribution of and other changes around the ores, that will change the game significantly

Redwolf Programs

I think almost everything about this update is awful

Both parts

caird coinheringaahing

Caves have needed to be re-done for years now, same with mountains

Redwolf Programs

But their "redone" caves are garbage

They're worse than before

caird coinheringaahing

What would you want them to be?

A username

Jul 14, 2021 02:18

Glow lichen is my least favorite thing

Redwolf Programs

We needed more underground structures, and improvements to the existing ones. The underground is monotonous, and bigger caves does not help.

A username

it loks like diamonds but its not

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms I agree, underground structures would be welcome

Redwolf Programs

When people wanted a "cave update", they wanted improved underground structures, cave generation, minecarts, ores, etc. So far we have one of those.

A username

Aside from dungeons, strongholds, mineshafts...

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:19

And the new cave generation is honestly uglier IMO, but I guess that's not as popular of an opinion.

caird coinheringaahing

But only considering changing the structure of the caves, I like expanding them to be larger and more expansive. Makes them feel more "real"

Redwolf Programs

But gameplay should always come before realism, and Minecraft used to know that.

Big caves look good, but they aren't as good for playing.

Razetime

once microsoft got it it was doomed to become complex and get unnecessary features

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms They're less interesting, spawn mobs less interestingly, and take up more space that could be used for real stuff like structures

caird coinheringaahing

I don;t think they should add new ores - they'll just have some convoluted and useless uses. The caves feel cool IMO, they're incredibly fun to just be in, and whatnot. The underground structures could do with work, and there's positive signs there: mineshafts now generate with chains in caves, indicating that work in potentially going to happen

A username

Jul 14, 2021 02:21

1.16 was great tho

Matthew Roh

long time no see in the nineteenth byte

caird coinheringaahing

Having actual "abandoned mines" would be great

Redwolf Programs

1.12-1.16 were extremely good and added a lot of polish. I thought they'd started a sort of golden era, and now they've ruined that.

caird coinheringaahing

@MatthewRoh Welcome back! :D

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing New ores are a bad idea; they've already added two.

Razetime

Jul 14, 2021 02:22

@MatthewRoh are you double speak

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Copper and...?

Matthew Roh

@Razetime yyeess??

Razetime

good, you have passed the test

Redwolf Programs

Well it's not technically an ore, but amethyst

A totally useless insult of an item

caird coinheringaahing

I've entirely neutral on amethyst tbh

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:22

It's awful

Matthew Roh

well tbh

A username

It sounds nice

caird coinheringaahing

Every new update has included something that's sort of nothing

A username

And tinted glass changes mob farms a lot

Redwolf Programs

It's just a sparkly thing to take people's attention away from the update's lack of substance

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:23

using a-b instead of a!=b in an if statement was gold

Redwolf Programs

Tinted glass should use coal

Matthew Roh

it saved me a byte :D

Redwolf Programs

Amethyst doesn't even make sense

Why would it darken glass?

Matthew Roh

well see

A username

Idk

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:23

its minecraft

A username

And no tinted glass panes :(

caird coinheringaahing

I could 100% live without it, but I have nothing against it tbh

Redwolf Programs

It's garbage

Matthew Roh

even zombies dont make sense

Redwolf Programs

It's a random new item they added, and made up stuff to make it seem useful

Zombies are good for gameplay

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:24

it didnt even make sense in the first place and why should we care xd

caird coinheringaahing

My biggest complaint is that the update is so unsubstantative, but they're parading it as a "new Minecraft"

Redwolf Programs

If it's good for gameplay I don't care if it makes sense. But amethyst actively harms gameplay.

So they better have a pretty good explanation of "why", and I'm pretty sure it's just "add some sparkly stuff the kids will like"

caird coinheringaahing

They should've merged both 1.17 updated into one, and had like 15 snapshots over the next year or so

Redwolf Programs

1.14 was the best update ever. Everything added something. What will people use any of this stuff for ten years down the line?

caird coinheringaahing

Wasn't 1.14 the color one?

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:25

@cairdcoinheringaahing well tbh they're not parading it as a new minecraft because it's new as in "new and better"

caird coinheringaahing

Color and Bees were basically nothing

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing The village one

caird coinheringaahing

That was great

Matthew Roh

its just because they changed the darn ore textures

Redwolf Programs

Dripleaf is uglier lily pads. Glow vines are uglier vines. Tuff is uglier diorite.

Amethyst is useless. Telescopes are pointless. Copper is a joke.

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:26

well

caird coinheringaahing

I feel like most of the stuff in 1.17 will be forgotten in a couple of years, and people will only really remember 1.18

Matthew Roh

copper isnt a joke for one thing

Redwolf Programs

These all could have been amazing...if they'd put half an hour of work into thinking through how to make it fun

Matthew Roh

the thunder stick thing

Redwolf Programs

1.17 is 1.18. Treating them as two updates is just annoying and gets in the way.

Lightning rods are cool but didn't need copper

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:27

@RedwolfPrograms I don';t care tbh

Redwolf Programs

Gold would've worked fine

Matthew Roh

eh

caird coinheringaahing

In the same way I've forgotten 1.10, I will forget 1.17

A username

Copper looks really good tho

Redwolf Programs

Copper and amethyst have like two uses each, and existing items would do better for either

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:28

we dont use gold for lightning rods in real life tbh

its too overpriced

Redwolf Programs

No, but this is minecraft

caird coinheringaahing

Copper is fun for building, but it's useless for playthroughs

Redwolf Programs

We use gold for railways in MC

hyper-neutrino

i mean we don't usually punch trees IRL to get lumber

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino You don't

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:28

Why not lightning rods, rare OP items?

They put no thought into how fun this would be, only into how good it would look at first glance. It's like a three course meal where everything is paper mache with paint on it.

There's no substance. No detail, or heart.

Matthew Roh

well

Aaron Miller

@Ausername I’m rereading your comment on my cop answer, and I’m realizing I don’t actually understand what you’re saying about the empty string and whatnot. Could you elaborate?

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms So would you just prefer 1.17 didn't happen?

Redwolf Programs

1.14 had so much love put into it, you can tell. 1.17 is just monotonous corporate garbage

Matthew Roh

they are suddenly putting thought to education

in a game

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:30

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes, I would.

I'm staying on 1.16.

Matthew Roh

because of microsoft

Redwolf Programs

That's what education edition is for. Keep it out of Java/Bedrock.

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms And for 1.18, what would you want them to do, and not do, of what they've announced?

Redwolf Programs

1.17 is 1.18

A username

@AaronMiller So, the challenge says numbers should be ignored, so 202 should be converted to an empty string, which is a palindrome. But it's a number, so I'm not sure if it's a valid crack.

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:31

I use 1.17 to refer to both, they are the same update.

caird coinheringaahing

Honestly, 1.18 feels like something that could be 2.0

Matthew Roh

and speaking of minecraft, minecraft is suddenly an adult game in south korea due to a law that makes online game services (xbox live in this case) basically illegal to teenagers

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Ok, but you get that it's clearer for all of us if you just use 1.17 and 1.18?

Redwolf Programs

They should've just called them part 1 and part 2, instead of confusing everyone by calling them separate updates

Aaron Miller

@Ausername I’m gonna count it, since the intended crack was “Pretty much any input with a number in it”

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:31

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ah sorry, will do.

The split was a relatively recent announcement, still not used to it yet

So I think of all of it as 1.17 still

caird coinheringaahing

I think the "1.18 features" are predominately good, but are so different that it could justify being a 2.0 feature. The 1.17 features kinda feel like a "winding down" of a legacy version as they prepare for a massive new update

Redwolf Programs

I just hate how with 1.12 to 1.16, I could sit with my friends and talk for hours about all the new stuff we can do with the update. With 1.17 and 1.18, it's talking for hours about all the new stuff they could have done with the update

1.18 is not massive or new or big or good or justifiable

It's a bunch of big technical changes with little impact on gameplay, none of which is positive

caird coinheringaahing

It's a complete change to the world height, depth and more

Matthew Roh

imagine 10 years later

Redwolf Programs

Depth in the numeric sense, but not in the content sense

A username

Jul 14, 2021 02:34

@AaronMiller Oh ok

Redwolf Programs

It's the flattest blandest most paper mache an update can get

Matthew Roh

mojang: we rewrote everything in rust and were calling it minecraft diamond edition

Redwolf Programs

No creativity, no love

caird coinheringaahing

Right now, it isn't exactly a completely new update, but if you reframe it to be "This is now Minecraft 2.0", they can do a lot with that to make it so

Matthew Roh

users: just call it minecraft 2.0 lmao

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:35

Minecraft 2.0 already exists and it was an april fools update. I wish 1.18 was that.

And it'd all go away once we all stop laughing.

Matthew Roh

trueeeeeeeeeeeee

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, but it doesn't

If anything would be a 2.0 update, it would start IMO with completely changing world generation, including world limits

Redwolf Programs

But it's just tweaking numbers

Nothing is new

How is this going to change anything?

caird coinheringaahing

My point is that, if they announced that in 2.0 the first thing to change would be the world generation. Then they're going to do X, Y, Z etc. I'd go "Yeah, that tracks"

Redwolf Programs

I don't know where you're going with this 2.0 thing tbh

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:37

Otherwise, it feels like their updates are going to reach 1.105 with nothing significant changing

Redwolf Programs

if you're trying to suggest 1.18 is a big, revolutionary update, I'll see you in ten minutes when I'm done laughing :p

Matthew Roh

@cairdcoinheringaahing tbh I think if they ever announced 2.0 the feature would be making the land and the surfaces smooth and then minecraft wouldnt be minecraft anymore

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms If you're going to regularly release updates to a program, eventually, you either reach a 2.0, or you stop releasing updates. I don't want the latter to happen, ideally, so at some point, I expect Mojang to release Minecraft 2.0. This update seems like a good starting point for such - completely revamping the world generation, beginning with new world limits, If not this, then what would be so drastic as to make it a 2.0?

Redwolf Programs

I don't understand

Why would they reach a 2.0

Matthew Roh

because

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:40

Why wouldn't they?

Matthew Roh

generally in version naming

first is major

second is minor

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's the wrong question

Matthew Roh

third is bugfix

caird coinheringaahing

Basically every program publically released will hit a 2.0

Redwolf Programs

There was a 2.0 already and it was a joke.

They obviously don't plan on a real one.

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:40

they revamped the world generation, shouldn't it be considered major?

redwolf, then it will hit a 3.0.

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms 2.0 is currently a joke

Redwolf Programs

@MatthewRoh No, it is nothing

It is trash

Utterly worthless

It's not a "revamp"

Matthew Roh

redwolf why should you be so serious at a game

caird coinheringaahing

Ok, change it up a bit: you get to control what 1.18 changes. What are you adding/removing?

Matthew Roh

its just a game

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:42

Because this game is the biggest in the world, with millions of players, and it's been a major part of my life and all of my friends' lives

And they're churning out worthless garbage now

I feel insulted

caird coinheringaahing

World generation, caves, biomes, mountains are considered by a large proportion of the fan base to be something that needs an update. If not that, then what?

Redwolf Programs

This is something that used to have love poured into it and you could tell. It's something that had detail and well thought through design.

They took a good idea and corrupted it.

Matthew Roh

ok redwolf but a more urgent issue is

Redwolf Programs

We needed improved caves, and they gave us the cheapest, simplest, worst way to do that.

Matthew Roh

minecraft has been a major part of our life

but now its an adult game in south korea

its fuckeddddddddddddddd

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:43

@RedwolfPrograms I couldn't. Personally, every single update to minecraft felt like something new and unnecessary

Redwolf Programs

To me it felt different. Look at 1.14, for example.

Every feature was justifiable in multiple ways.

Matthew Roh

theres bamboo

did we need bamboo?

Redwolf Programs

You could tell how much work went into it from the designers, graphics team, developers, etc.

Matthew Roh

no

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Honestly, that's the only thing I liked, and even then, I got annoyed that most of the new blocks didn't actually do anything past villagers

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:44

@MatthewRoh Yes

It adds something to many aspects of the game

Matthew Roh

theres barrels; did we need barrels?

Redwolf Programs

Yes

caird coinheringaahing

Why?

What do they offer over chests?

Redwolf Programs

Well, we didn't need anything. But they're good updates.

Barrels are a weaker part of the update, but a necessary one.

A username

Fisherman

Matthew Roh

Jul 14, 2021 02:45

ok I am not gonna iterate this over about 50 stuff in the 1.14 update

hyper-neutrino

barrels cannot be blocked by opaque blocks

A username

Smithing table was useless until 1.16

hyper-neutrino

IIRC

Aaron Miller

@MatthewRoh Scaffolding

caird coinheringaahing

idk about you, but being able to use Fortune on iron/gold is something I've wanted for years

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:46

They improve storage, village mechanics, building, and more

A username

Fletching table can only be used for fletchers

@cairdcoinheringaahing golf

caird coinheringaahing

that's my main takeway from this new update

hyper-neutrino

wait they're adding that?

Redwolf Programs

This new update adds like ten things that add nothing

Matthew Roh

redwolf

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:47

@hyper-neutrino Yeah, they've changed the ores. Iron/golf now drop "Raw Iron", which can be smelted IIRC to ingots

Redwolf Programs

In ten years I won't look back on this update and keep finding new things I like about it. I'll keep finding new things they cheated us out of.

Matthew Roh

did any update ever add anything in minecraft

hyper-neutrino

woo finally. i mean idrk much about the new update tho; i never really played all that much past 1.8 except for a bit of random stuff on the redwolf smp and some other random stuff, so i haven't been following

Matthew Roh

considering post 1.5.2

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms In ten years, you'll have forgotten about this update

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:48

@MatthewRoh An update will never really be required, but they should add polish. They should improve parts of the game that've gone a little unmaintained, and be careful to make sure it builds the rest of the game with it.

This update is like finding a hole in your shoe and sticking gum in it.

caird coinheringaahing

I suspect that you'll be playing 1.26 like the rest of us in ten years, and you won;t remember anything about this update, like the vast majority of them

Redwolf Programs

It won't do the job well, and it'll get your socks all sticky.

Matthew Roh

yes redwolf

see

caird coinheringaahing

Without looking it up, what did 1.11 update?

Matthew Roh

caves were unmaintained

they improved it

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:48

@cairdcoinheringaahing Woodland mansions, observers

Matthew Roh

world generations were unmaintained

they improved it

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Not a massive update, but not in the golden era

Matthew Roh

what's the issue man

A username

@RedwolfPrograms Excuse me, flying machines?

Redwolf Programs

The lack of substance

@Ausername Exactly

A username

Jul 14, 2021 02:49

1.15 changed redstone completely.

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Shit man, if you can remember, off the top of your head, what each update did, that's a different level to me

Redwolf Programs

The update vastly improved redstone and it was completely unrelated

hyper-neutrino

what did 1.15 even do

caird coinheringaahing

Bees

A username

Honey

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:50

Bees, honey blocks, graphics

hyper-neutrino

i cannot remember like anything besides 1.9 made combat funny and that's it

Redwolf Programs

It was a minor update

Matthew Roh

redwolf

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms But it still improved everything it touched

Matthew Roh

you should just go and become a minecraft youtuber

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 14, 2021 02:50

I can only remember 1.9 as the End update, and then I can't remember anything before 1.14

Matthew Roh

that would be 100x better for you in the long term

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, I think you're right that this conversation should probably go elsewhere :p

caird coinheringaahing

Oh god, are we going to have to move 1000 messages to CGCC Gaming? :P

Redwolf Programs

I think we'll have to agree to disagree for now :p

@cairdcoinheringaahing Nah, we can just leave it here but end the conversation

caird coinheringaahing

If you don't play exclusively on the alpha release, you aren't a proper minecrafter. I will accept no debate or discussion on this :P

Redwolf Programs

Jul 14, 2021 02:52

@cairdcoinheringaahing I've spent years completely obsessing over this game and every tiny detail of it, that's why I care so much about the tiny details :p

The Nineteenth Byte

Participants