Conversation started Aug 4, 2017 at 18:31.
Aug 4, 2017 18:31
Welcome to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange's first proof-of-concept chat session!
Woohoo!
Possible topics of conversation: Conlangs, medieval worlds, mapmaking, weather simulation, and anything else we've talked about remotely recently.
Also, geese, martial arts, @Green's future wedding, and the usual stuff. But slightly less nonsensical than usual.
@HDE226868 Can we talk about conservation of worldbuilding or is that a taboo subject for this site?
Can we do abstract ethical systems too? Those are good brain benders.
Aug 4, 2017 18:36
@sphennings Nobody else has spoken up yet. Sounds fine to me.
When is it a good idea to not build out a world?
We were just talking about marrying pets. How about we start with some nonsense like "In which ways would our society change if pets could suddenly talk telepathically with their owners?"
That would be too broad/opinion-based for the site, but maybe for a chat session good
@sphennings Like a world, you already have in mind?
@sphennings um, your question makes no sense.
"Build" seems a bit vague.
Aug 4, 2017 18:39
@Green Heh. I've said that more than once (today) about my wife.
That's awesome man. Happy to hear it. How does she tolerate your nerd?
So I'm writing a book perhaps a fantasy or sci-fi I could spend years obsessing over the differences between each cultures eating utensils creating a whole rich and vibrant history for them. The plot of my book is about some chosen teenager destined to save the world and along the way learn the power of friendship.
@sphennings Barf
friendship is dumb.
Friendship is magic
@sphennings Erm... When you're on your deathbed and urgently need to spend the remaining few minutes of your life writing down the world you've already built instead of expanding it?
@James IANAA IANAW
Aug 4, 2017 18:41
dumb magic
If it's only tangential to your story you should probably not obsess over it. Focus on the situations in which your characters interacts with other races, people, etc.
The problem is that you might get lost in the details and lose track of what you were trying to focus on in the beginning.
Go with the agile programming approach: do what is necessary to ship a product that works and then try to expand it bit by bit
I'm of the opinion that worldbuilding should be done only to the extend that it is necessary to tell your story.
Most worldbuilding ends up in a large telling not showing exposition dump anyway.
@sphennings do you mean worldbuilding as in constructing a world, or explaining it to the audience?
I'm of the belief that you should overbuild your world, so you don't have to keep on making things up and contradicting yourself
@DaaaahWhoosh I am pretty sure the truth is somewhere in the middle...
@DaaaahWhoosh The latter's the JK Rowling approach, right?
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Aug 4, 2017 18:46
lol well yeah she seems kinda bad at it, but only in comparison to people like Tolkien
it seems like she actually did a lot of pre-work to make sure things lined up, she just didn't worry about nerd stuff
@DaaaahWhoosh I've read advice for making a DnD story somewhere: whenever you explain something to your audience you should ask yourself the most obvious question three times. That way you can answer the most important questions about anything and most people won't ask more
@DaaaahWhoosh Tolkein's got more backstory than a...hmm...
I like the idea of having a recursively called (fractal-like) world (a la functional programming) where you have all the ways (a function) of going about creating your world, then when you need a new part, just use the 'function' to hone in on the bit you need in more detail the more you need it, so you're not creating the new bit exactly as the details for the new bit are already there, just not calculated directly until required
@DaaaahWhoosh Tolkien's in a league of his own.
@DaaaahWhoosh That's why I like my 'functional programming' approach :P
Aug 4, 2017 18:51
the problem I have with my worldbuilding is that I have to be able to draw all of it, so there's a bunch of little stuff I have to worry about
so I basically have to overbuild, because otherwise once I figure out what everyone's supposed to be wearing I'll realize I'd been drawing it wrong the whole time
but then figuring out what everyone's wearing means I have to figure out where they're from, and what it's like there, and what its history is. I can't just say "there's a diverse crowd of people here"
@DaaaahWhoosh I think you should always overbuild a bit, so that you don't run into these problems if you want to make a second book for example. But you are never showing how some species is eating you shouldn't worry about it until you zoom into the details enough to care about the everyday life
The most extensive worldbuilding I've personally experienced was in a 20 year long larp with one event holder and an obsession for internal consistency. He didn't build the whole world in advance. He created what he needed and every time he added something he wrote down what he added.
@DaaaahWhoosh I suppose the difference between our two methods is that you're creating all the languages of the world that you'll ever need and iteratively improving them until it works, while I'd look at proto-languages, get something reasonable sorted out, then create a method that turns the proto-language into a modern one, which I can role out as and when required
@sphennings 20 years?!
It felt like a massive interconnected world but he only created what was needed for the next event.
Aug 4, 2017 18:54
@James my inner nerd is embraced and cherished. There's the occasional eyeroll when I say I got distracted by WB but otherwise, she's very accommodating.
@Secespitus There was a standing threat that if we failed to save the world the LARP would be over.
@Secespitus Two years after I left the LARP he stood by his word and let the world end.
@sphennings Now that's what I call dedication
@Mithrandir24601 yeah, the crazy thing is I'm actually trying to do that to a certain degree, bu even at the highest level there's a lot to handle
@DaaaahWhoosh Yeah, that would be the problem :P
@DaaaahWhoosh How about asking yourself: "Which country/planet are they from? How is the climate where they life? What was the most important event in the recent ~50 years?"
Aug 4, 2017 18:57
If I'm remembering my computer science right, it's essentially this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus
That would be a start without overthinking too much and should help with the basics for clothing. And if you want to talk about the event go on and ask yourself 3 questions again.
@Secespitus now that you've given an example, I both understand and really like this idea
I'm thinking 'what culture influenced them, what is their specialty, and how much does it cost?'
that's what I've been doing for mercenaries
@DaaaahWhoosh I found that advice incredibly helpful because when I drift and go "But what was 100 years ago? 200?" it stops me because I have to ask myself "Will I be talking explicitly about that?"
The questions obviously vary depending on yourself and your intended audience, as well as the way you incorporate what you are doing into your "story so far"
If I didn't have such a way to stop myself my perfectionist self would take over and I wouldn't ever get anything done.
someone should write a blog post on this method, I really like it
@Green Good to hear. I still get eye rolls when I head out to play dnd so that's normal.
Aug 4, 2017 19:04
@DaaaahWhoosh Glad you like the method.
I wonder what the three questions would be for all the aliens I still need to build
@DaaaahWhoosh "What does it look like? Which planet is it living on? How long is the race living?"
Those would be my first three questions
yeah, the first one is definitely important for visual storytelling. The second is less important, because I'm not going there any time soon. Same for the third one, unless they won't last through a conversation.
Or you just try to think what your character is thinking. So imagine the situation when they first hear about the race or meet one of them: what would they ask themselves?
yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards
Aug 4, 2017 19:09
Are they generally peaceful? Technologically advanced? What's their societal structure?
I'm thinking looks/ feeling towards humans/ ways they think differently than humans
@James I also make sure to get all my stuff done (chores if you want to call them that). So, when I have my own time, it's mine.
@DaaaahWhoosh how do handle the parts of your world that can't be drawn like " the economy"?
@Green I don't need to! Or, at least, please don't tell me I need to
@Green Economies can be drawn! FLOWCHARTS FTW!
@DaaaahWhoosh Suffer...bwahahahaha
@DaaaahWhoosh sorry to break it to you. You need to draw economies. :p
Aug 4, 2017 19:13
Are they exchanging something directly? What is the most valuable thing? What professions are the most important ones?
it's hard enough justifying why humans still have jobs
@DaaaahWhoosh All you need is a map with an economy overlay showing the movement of major goods and services. It should only take like 5 years to figure it out.
Those are things you can draw pretty good without going into too many details and still show the basics.
@Secespitus Hunter (food), builder (housing) and obviously prostitution isn't going anywhere.
@James And then you realize that the character needs a special thing you haven't thought of until now
@James Depends on the kind of alien race you are imagining. Maybe they don't need houses because their bodies are perfectly accustomed to the weather. Maybe they derive their energy from the sun like plants. What about asexual reproduction?
Aug 4, 2017 19:15
@Green That a nice chart
@James It should probably be a spreadsheet not a flowchart. That way things will automatically recalculate when you tweak it.
@Green Are you learning agile?
Economies are in the organized complexity middle ground where you can use some stats but there's also organization that prevents the easier stats methods from working.
I like this chat. It shows me that there are people out there who obsess over details even more than I do.
Aug 4, 2017 19:17
@sphennings Both. Plus a map. @DaaaahWhoosh you're getting this right?
@James nope, general systems-thinking. It's my new jam.
@James nope, I've already knawed off my hands just thinking about it
@James I'm familiar with it but since I don't write code, I don't use it much.
@Green That's the chart they use (ok almost) to show the sweet spot for agile development.
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@James that middle ground is also where figuring out a system is the hardest.
@James that's a very useful chart.
Aug 4, 2017 19:19
@James "House of pain" :D
I will use that term from now on
@James do you show this to your customers to show them what is and isn't possible?
As a way of tempering their expectations? "Sure, you can ask for crazy new tech but you better be damn sure what the requirements are."
"See this upper right corner? If you tone down your requirements a bit we might be able to get back on the chart right there."
Aug 4, 2017 19:44
@HDE226868 I forget, was there a specific topic for this talk?
@DaaaahWhoosh Nope.
Also, in theory, it ended 44 minutes ago, but there was no reason to stop it then.
@Secespitus your mention of perfectionism reminds me of the Done Manifesto. Ever heard of it?
@Green Nope. What exactly is it?
@HDE226868 ah. Well, I think it was reasonably successful. If we had a specific topic next time, it should be even more so.
 
Conversation ended Aug 4, 2017 at 19:53.