lll

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 13:17

2

Q: Aerial Navy Doctrine-Steampunk era like world war 2 with magic. What tactics that can evolve from it?

ok so we have a world with an Aerial Navy with magic included. I mean Aerial battleships, Airborne Aircraft Carriers and all other sort of ships we can imagine flying in the air, mobile battle fortresses, Floating islands, Rocket planes, flying magicians with Wings. Situation The situation is ...

Tim B

@bilbo_pingouin Did you vote to close on it? You only see questions you've never voted on in the review queue I think

@dot_Sp0T The proposal seems fine, I think you need mod privs to implement it but if any high rep users want to take a look and see if they can that's fine by me. If not I'll see if I get time to do it this weekend, or one of the other mods may get to it sooner

best bet will be to flag it for moderator attention if the high rep users confirm they can't do it

Pavel Janicek

If someone tells me what to do I am offering a help :)

bilbo_pingouin

@TimB I voted to close it and voted against reopening it :)

but I see my actions, it's the actions of the others I don't ;)

@Green yeah see just above :)

Green

@bilbo_pingouin Sorry, missed that one.

mico villena

so my question is going to be closed?

bilbo_pingouin

Mar 24, 2016 13:23

@micovillena it will, unless it gets reopen... I haven't have the time to check it yet....

Green

@micovillena As I read through the question, i find myself getting lost in what you're attempting to ask and the world you're building.

Pavel Janicek

@micovillena nope. We are caught in discussion about another question

mico villena

ah ok... i was asking for tactics that will be developed with magic ang floating battleship in scenario of world war 2 with kaijuus involve

Pavel Janicek

@micovillena To be honest I did not make it to read the question whole

Green

It's really long and it involves so many different, incredibly broad power players that it's really difficult to tease out what would happen.

Pavel Janicek

Mar 24, 2016 13:26

^^support that

mico villena

i just need the tactics/doctrine not whats going to happen... i plan to ask that in another question... i am guessing i will need to reorganize the whole question?

bilbo_pingouin

ok, since I don't get any precise feed back on that point, I'll expose my theory, and you'll tell me how you see it.. people voting directly on the question do not appear in the review history. So they simply vote to close or vote to reopen on the question without going to the review queue. How's that? @TimB @PavelJanicek ?

Pavel Janicek

@bilbo_pingouin I did see you in review queue casting a vote on that question

^^this is what I see

Green

Having read up extensively on the evolution of submarine warfare in WW2, just that period of history is incredibly complex. Incorporating 3D attack profiles, reactionless propulsion and free energy into a combat landscape renders it unrecognizable from Earth as we know it.

My recommendation is to strip off as much extraneous detail as possible. IMO, a list of countries involved in the world isn't relevant to the question.

I just can't get past "I have magic in the world and I have unobtanium too".

And if Kaijuu are ignored in the world then why are they mentioned in the question?

bilbo_pingouin

@PavelJanicek yeah, but that question was reopened with Hohmannfan vote... wich was the 5th. So the 4 others are missing out in the history.

dot_Sp0T

Mar 24, 2016 13:34

Sorry for injecting myself but does anybody know a simple free way to rotate a jpeg by 90degs?

Pavel Janicek

@dot_Sp0T I use windows paint for that :D

@dot_Sp0T Or better put, almost any image viewing tool in almost any system can do that

bilbo_pingouin

@dot_Sp0T have you seen that post: meta.worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/2543/…

mico villena

i was trying to see if the similar nations would have similar tactics as the same world even if theres magic and unobtanium... Kaijuu is ignored because in lieu of "national interests and pride" that is world war... besides people/govt tend to ignore whats not really happening to them

dot_Sp0T

@PavelJanicek it seems so, besides win10 naturally which doesn't seem to really rotate the data

@bilbo_pingouin no I have not seen that one

Green

@micovillena, if you want a good and very indepth discussion of naval tactics in a 2.5D space, trawl through the publication on CSBA

Pavel Janicek

Mar 24, 2016 13:37

@dot_Sp0T I am right now on Ubuntu, but have Win10 at home. And I believe I was rotating a picture on that system too. Try pressing Ctrl+S after rotating picture

dot_Sp0T

@bilbo_pingouin but if you check the very last comment on the answer you encounter the issue I was trying to solve with the mentioned meta-question

bilbo_pingouin

@dot_Sp0T open-source-tool-to-rotate-image.en.informer.com

mico villena

wow... thats alot of information there

Green

@micovillena Tactics are heavily dependent on the culture and technological capabilities of a particular group. You can't just generalize to "What would the Germans do?"

Pavel Janicek

They would drink beer. That would Germans do :D

Green

Mar 24, 2016 13:39

For example, there's a huge difference in tactics between an A-10 doing ground attacks and an F-15E doing ground attacks. The airframes are completely different and so require completely different weapons delivery methods.

Pavel Janicek

oops. Replace Germans with "Czechs". And its fixed

bilbo_pingouin

@dot_Sp0T then make your tag more specific: military-structure or military-organisation...

dot_Sp0T

@bilbo_pingouin that's another solution; although from the way I see it it still leaves the issue that military is quite a broad synonym to be linked to warfare which is quite specific :/

Green

There's also a ton of predator-prey evolution pressures in tactical warfare. There were at least three evolutions of radar in just WW2 alone in response to various pressures.

mico villena

i see..

so i need to take those in account as well... should have looked into culture first then from there i could have asked analogue like question on how similar culture would have their tactics evolved according to opposing culture and tactics

from there it would branch out on how would tactics and technology will be developed

Pavel Janicek

Mar 24, 2016 13:47

yep\

real world building in action :D

mico villena

for example high accuracy and armor piercing 2200mm batteries of germans, british need to have something to counter it thus from there they would develop a defense system that could counter that kind of fire power

dot_Sp0T

Now you're talking :)

mico villena

Going from that tree if by chance british does develop an armor to counter or at least weather through the salvos of the main batteries, germans would again need to develop a gun or another form of weapon to bypass british defenses by going more heavier guns or go aviation rocket planes

from there forward if germans go through aviation british would counter by radar detection and full on AA development to be nullify german aviation..

Pavel Janicek

Also, you can learn from history

dot_Sp0T

@micovillena in my world airships tend to be lighter plated but use distance to stay out of harms way; the distance has been countered with artillery & bomber planes, which in turn are countered by fighter planes (aka bi-/triplanes)

Green

Mar 24, 2016 13:50

@micovillena Yes, that kind of technological evolution happens all the time and is central to the story of warfare

mico villena

not counting the fact that we have france who was the reason why germans developed armor piercing guns

this is bloody broad i guess

rock paper scissors... is this technological warfare works because if it does my mind is going to bleed alot from thinking

i'm not even on strategic magics yet!

Green

@micovillena I think you have the start to a compelling world there. My recommendation would be to let your question close while you go read up on the technological evolution of warfare. Then come back and ask a much more focused question with specific technologies. You'll have no end of people who will fall over themselves to answer those kinds of questions.

mico villena

ok thx for that

whats the criteria of a strategic weapon and deterrent?

just another question to throw

Green

A word about "magic". It's very common here for people to see a broadstroked "I have magic in my world" and people to respond "Well, if you have magic in your world, you can do anything you want" then stop.

If you want to include magic, you have to be very specific about it's limitations and capabilities.

mico villena

people used magic to loosely this days... i'll try to rectify that on my world... Magic is something that science can replicate but will not bypass the law of equivalent exchange

Tim B

Mar 24, 2016 13:55

Yeah, sounds like you have the right idea

Pavel Janicek

In most worlds, magic works like deux ex machina

But I love your train of thoughts

Green

And this book Animal Weapons is absolute gold when discussion weapon systems and their evolution.

Pavel Janicek

You are on good way

mico villena

ok so i am trying to create strategic magic

Green

If you can get a copy, get it.

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 13:56

i think i will

bilbo_pingouin

@micovillena, I think Green answers your question better than my time allows. Nevertheless, I would really appreciate if you could make your question's format clearer. For a large part it still looks like a large block of text to read... which might mean that people won't read it fully...

mico villena

so what scientific effect that can be considered strategic deterrent apart from nuclear weapons?

@bilbo_pingouin i'll let that close... better to ask questions here so i can easily clarify my misgivings about things

Green

@micovillena To answer that will require a cost benefit analysis of what all your ships, technology, magic and kaiju can do.

Nuclear weapons are a deterant because using them will precipitate far more death. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) kept the world safe for 70ish years.

mico villena

Kaijuu are typically dragon on steroids... super heavy armor, even 2200mm AP shell at 20km range with magic assistance and rocket propellant... later on as it evolves it becomes almost magic immune

technology wise Nonexistent electronics instead we have arcmachina which replaced computers... Light powered computation ftw!

Green

@micovillena I'd expect the trade-off to that is "sure they can't be killed but they can't move very fast either."

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 14:01

they cant move fast but they can hover and fly

Green

@micovillena Just remember that everything has trade-offs. A world without trade-offs feels wrong.

mico villena

yep... i know... i'm just thinking of what is the downside of arcmachina

.....

Green

@micovillena That's terrifying. So what stops them from just running rampant all of the planet, eating whatever they want, whenever they want?

...basically doing to the planet what humans are doing to earth right now?

mico villena

plot wise kaijuus are used to cull human population by the god of dreams and destruction

kaijuus eat humans, its part of their diet, the reason why they exist

to kill humans

but humans doesnt know that

Green

who counters the god of dreams and destruction?

and what are the agents of that countering force?

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 14:05

everyone and no one... because that god exists and doesnt exist at the same time at any point of its existence

that god only exists to cull down humans

he is also the reason why there is magic btw.... Magic is after all perversion of reality as seen fit

he could have just caused an apocalypse or natural phenomenon to do its job

but humans can adapt to it, if theres flood, they'll just build tree houses

volcanic explosion? give it 100 years and 1 intelligent mind, they'll know exactly when it will explode

a better way to do it is through something that develops over time

a living being...

it evolves just like a human being, adapts to changes in its environment

capable of thinking independently

and it can be controlled if necessary

Green

I wish you the best of luck in your world building. :) I haven't got anything else.

mico villena

yeah... thx for that

i need scientific effects that if large enough it can be considered strategic deterrent

DaaaahWhoosh

I want to know about this conversation, but I don't want to read what's already been discussed

Green

@DaaaahWhoosh Basically, mico was asking what it would take to get his question reopened and I was telling him.

in addition to how to make his question(s) better next time,

James

someone name an ailment, i need a reason not to be at my desk this afternoon.

Pavel Janicek

Mar 24, 2016 14:20

@James have kids?

sick kids are best talk away

James

@PavelJanicek as a matter of fact I do...

see this is how tired I am

I missed the obvious answer

mico villena

HAHAHAHAHAH

James

Nevermind everyone, Pavel wins this round of "Get me out of work"

Pavel Janicek

yaay

What did I win?

mico villena

damn... how do i make sickness a strategic deterrent

James

Mar 24, 2016 14:21

8 million james points

mico villena

hahaha nvm... that would be impossible

dot_Sp0T

@Green I might just give up with trying to upload a picture; now I'm getting timeouts

Pavel Janicek

@micovillena In military it is called "biological weapons"

8 million James points!

I am rich

Random Czech Republic fact: Tomorrow is first ever Good Friday recognized as state public holiday

James

super rich

Pavel Janicek

MEGA RICH

James

Mar 24, 2016 14:24

@PavelJanicek That's actually interesting...I am genuinely surprised.

Pavel Janicek

cool

Do I get more James points for surprising you? :)

James

@PavelJanicek Don't get greedy. :-)

Wasn't CR part of Hungary at one point?

Pavel Janicek

But I want more james point

yep, it was. But like 100 years ago

James

So is this just the first time the modern political entity has recognized Good Friday or is it truly a first ever?

Pavel Janicek

@James I would say the modern polititcal entity

James

Mar 24, 2016 14:27

@PavelJanicek ok fine you have 8,000,005 James points.

Pavel Janicek

but it was not public holiday during the whole Czechoslovakia era

James

@PavelJanicek I would guess that the empire would have recognized it as a holiday back in the day

@PavelJanicek Yeah the whole religion is the crutch of humanity soviet era thing...

CR is a place I need to visit...

Pavel Janicek

Visit us

Cheap beer

5 James points a pint :D

Green

@dot_Sp0T Okay.

@James Massive Hemotoma

Pavel Janicek

anyway, I need to leave work early

because....

um, did I mention I have kids?

And they are sick :D

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 14:40

good friday is a state holiday in philippines

ok... how do you turn plasma into steel?

bilbo_pingouin

@micovillena and in Germany

Green

@micovillena what's the plasma made of?

mico villena

turn all steel battleships into plasma! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

that i dont know yet... i'm just thinking if plasma is a feasible strategic magic

Joe Bloggs

@micovillena: Go to Alpha Centauri. Look up the University.

:D

mico villena

university of the planet?

Green

Mar 24, 2016 14:46

@micovillena If you're using real physics, then no. Plasmas as notoriously fickle and don't make good weapons.

mico villena

i mean thats the thing, it is fickle... so for example if i set it off right in the middle of a city or a fleet it could engulf anything

Joe Bloggs

@micovillena: Heck yes University of the Planet. None of this Gaia manure!

Green

@micovillena At the energy scales required to create a plasma big enough to cover a city, you've just nuked the city.

mico villena

without the harmful fall out

DaaaahWhoosh

I feel like having that much plasma is still going to wreck the planet

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 14:49

plasma: Passable enough to be strategic weapon but not that much...

Green

I gotta get back to work. See you all later!

mico villena

how big a black hole could be that it could engulf anything within 50kms? OTH

DaaaahWhoosh

@micovillena probably big enough to engulf the entire planet, there was a question on WB about that a while back

mico villena

turning matter into energy is a good strategic weapon

DaaaahWhoosh

20

Q: On the immediate effects of a small, short term black hole

What immediate effects would a small, short-term black hole have if it appeared in a residential backyard? How small or short-lived would it have to be to be survivable, if it is survivable at all? In said backyard, there are four children, a garden, a tree house, and lots and lots of monsters.

science-based space urban black-holes

nitsua60

Mar 24, 2016 14:52

@bilbo_pingouin are you around?

mico villena

thx...

do hydrogen explode?

DaaaahWhoosh

@micovillena stars burn hydrogen into helium

nitsua60

@micovillena depends how strongly-contained it is, and how well you mix it with its oxygen. (Like almost all 'explosion' questions would boil down to.)

mico villena

enough to make it a strategic weapon

nitsua60

@micovillena can you clarify the situation a little, or are you asking "what are the conditions I need to construct so that hydrogen will produce an explosion?"

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 14:57

i was going to ask that

but yeah what conditions do i need to fulfill to do that

nitsua60

you can't just ignite a bag of it and expect an explosion, for instance.

mico villena

ok lets assume that theres magic, but it must abide the law of equivalent exchange

nitsua60

(I know there's a lot of thermite-chemistry going on there--it still stands as an example that a bag of H2 won't explode.)

@micovillena "law of equivalent exchange?"

mico villena

what conditions do i need to make hydrogen explode? enough to kill a whole city of it

nitsua60

(I don't know the term)

mico villena

Mar 24, 2016 14:59

hmmm... meaning its not deus ex machina... something that still follows the law of physics...

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