Conversation started Nov 22, 2011 at 19:00.
Nov 22, 2011 19:00
It is hidden somewhere in the bread.
And who has the coin, can make a wish?
@rumtscho i bet the paramedics are busy that night...
or will be protected?
@rfusca aha :D
No, whoever gets the coin will get rich this year.
That's what it looks like.
We have something similar but on epiphany
(something similar to the coin, I mean)
Nov 22, 2011 19:02
I just found the image on the Web, don't know what they mean with all the pieces of decoration.
I see a dolphin
and three whales
The bread is broken by the oldest man in the family, he assigns the pieces.
@Mien I am sure nobody in Bulgaria keeps dolphins.
That's a pity :(
And even if somebody fishes dolphins, there are no whales in the Black Sea.
The first piece is always for the Holy Virgin Mary.
It has to be put in the highest place of the house (usually a closet) and kept there until the next Christmas eve.
The other pieces are for the people.
@rumtscho, is there something else apart from the no-meat and the bread?
Nov 22, 2011 19:03
@rumtscho do people actually remember to get the old bread bits the following christmas?
or do they get eaten by mice and other creatures?
And of course, all the children reduce theirs to crumbles looking for the coin.
@Laura Good question!
You know what's another difference between the US and Belgium about Xmas?
children don't get presents
the latest year, they do get more and more presents, but not many
Also, some grandmas (bad look towards East) think their grandchildren are dumb. They put the coin under a specific piece of decoration and tell their grandfather where the coin is, so the smallest child will have the coin. Or they put three coins into the bread, so each grandchildren will have one.
Not like in the states
I can tell you from experience that this results in the grandchildren feeling cheated on and hating Grandma for it.
Nov 22, 2011 19:06
Oh, poor you :p
aww...poor grandma, being hated
She just wanted to be nice :)
Yes, but we resented her trickery.
OK, we didn't hate her for very long.
@rumtscho this sounds like a stressful tradition
@rfusca agreed!
Nov 22, 2011 19:07
³
So, the bread sure does get taken down for the next year, because the new piece gets put at the same place ;)
@hobodave do you have something to add btw?
@rfusca I'm sure it isn't stressful when the grandma doesn't cheat.
@rumtscho Can you throw it away when it's moldy and smells bad etc?
So, the bread is one dish, and the most interesting one.
@Mien It doesn't get moldy or smell.
Nov 22, 2011 19:08
Oh.
It is a very simple white bread, just wheat, water and yeast.
It just dries out and gets hard as stone.
The other dishes aren't prescribed, but there are traditional ones.
We always have soup made from white beans.
And always have ... I think you know them as dolmadas.
This is rice packaged in leaves and cooked.
mmm...
There are two types. The summer type is packaged in wine leaves, the winter one in pickled cabbage leaves.
For Christmas eve, we always make the pickled cabbage leaves type.
And because there must be no meat in the rice, we add diced prunes.
I know dolmades yes, the greek ones
@Mien Yes, this is the same dish, but I think only the wine leaves packed ones are known in the West.
Nov 22, 2011 19:11
Wine leaves indeed
Also, there is no real dessert - it is lent time, after all.
and with meat as well, but you couldn't have that on xmas eve ;)
There is "Oshav", this is a kind of tea
but it is cooked from dried fruit instead of herbs.
And the fruit pieces are eaten too.
sounds yummy :)
It shouldn't be sweetened if the family keeps the tradition.
So, bread, bean soup, dolmadas, oshav are four dishes.
Nov 22, 2011 19:13
So, what will you be doing this year with xmas? Stay in Germany or go to your family?
Most families make 9 I think.
Sometimes 7 or 11, rarely more or less.
You can't eat them all at the same time?
@Mien I'll stay here.
Not much to do in BG over Christmas, I prefer to go on vacation in summer and go hiking and to the beach.
@Mien you eat small portions, like a single dolmada.
@rumtscho Yeah, I got that
But I meant:
So, the fifth dish is, in my family, usually filled peppers - because the filling from the dolmadas (minus prunes) gets reused to stuff the peppers.
Nov 22, 2011 19:15
are all the nine plates on the table at the same time? (except for the bread, since that's first)
And the other ones tend to be salads.
@Mien No, they get brought in sequentially. The bread accompanies the meal.
People eat bread with everythng.
@rfusca and @Laura do you know Mulled wine ?
That's common here in the christmas period
So this is for Christmas Eve.
Mulled wine, variations of which are popular in Europe, is wine, usually red, combined with spices and typically served warm. It is a traditional drink during winter, especially around Christmas and Halloween. Glühwein Glühwein is popular in German-speaking countries and the region of Alsace in France. It is the traditional beverage offered and drunk during the Christmas holidays. It is usually prepared from red wine, heated and spiced with cinnamon sticks, vanilla pods, cloves, citrus and sugar. Fruit wines such as blueberry wine and cherry wine are rarely used instead of grape wine in ...
I know less of the tradition for Christmas day.
Nov 22, 2011 19:17
@Mien yes!
I think @rumtscho knows this as well?
The tradition is that the people may have meat and fat for the first time in weeks, and they don't have grass in the winter. So they slay the pig for Christmas.
Which means that Bulgarian Christmas traditions for the 25. December revolve around pork in amazing amounts.
Because, of course, in old times people had to eat as much as possible (and conserve as much as possible) before it goes bad.
Mulled wine isn't very common here, but I think it's delicious. Hot apple cider with rum or brandy plus spices is pretty common around Thanksgiving and Christmas (at least in the Boston-New York area, I'm not sure about the rest of the US)
My family usually has pork steaks.
@Mien I don't
Nov 22, 2011 19:18
@Mien yes, I know mulled wine.
(sorry, busy with work for a few minutes here)
@rumtscho That reminds me of the feast-of-sacrifice from the islamic culture
good luck @rfusca ;)
In Germany, there are Christmas markets in most cities.
We have one in Heidelberg too.
Yeah, here too
My parents are going to a christmas market this weekend, in Lille, France.
They sell Christmas deco, small things suited as gifts, and food.
And mulled wine is one of the main reasons people visit these markets ;)
Nov 22, 2011 19:20
There are christmas markets (or "holiday bazaars", for the politically correct :P ) in the US, too, but it's not a big a deal as it is in Europe...I've only really encountered them in larger cities
Mulled wine, hot chocolate and jenever (something like schnapps)
It is so popular, when I was at university, a student organization sold mulled wine in front of the largest aula (700 seats) the whole week before Christmas break.
@Laura I live in Heidelberg now, but studied in Augsburg.
Augsburg is in Bavaria, so deeply Catholic.
In my small city, if you go to the midnight mass in church, you get free mulled wine and hot chocolate afterwards :)
And it has a big central plaza. #
@Mien my churches never offered those kinds of incentives...
Nov 22, 2011 19:23
That's a panorama of it, with the city hall in the background.
It's the local youth movement who serves, but I think the city itself sponsors, though, I'm not sure
The Christkindlmarkt is built on it.
The stands get built in parallel rows from where the photographer is to the city hall.
@rumtscho I have a friend who's living in Heidelberg right now! She was talking about the Christmas market the other day....I'm waiting for her to put up photos online :)
@Laura, what will you do this christmas?
And the paths between them are named as streets.
Nov 22, 2011 19:24
or christmas eve
"Nikolausstrasse", "Christkindstrasse", etc.
@Laura That's cool.
The market hasn't started yet, I think this Sunday is the first Advent.
@Mien I'm going to go back to my parents' house...my sisters and my brother-in-law are going, too. It'll be a pretty small gathering - my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. live far away, so it'll just be my parents and siblings. But that will be nice since we all don't see each other too much
OK, here you see the round part around the long strips.
But there will be lots of baking/decorating Christmas cookies and eating lots of food
:)
This is the one in Brussels
Nov 22, 2011 19:26
@Laura Do you Americans make some special kind of cookie for Christmas?
@rumtscho pretty!
I've never been to it, but I've heard it very beautiful
@Laura sounds fun :)
These are Vanillekipferl. The pastry cookies I meant above.
Normally, the dough is only sugar, flour and butter.
@rumtscho gingerbread cookies are popular because they are a good activity for children and are very festive
I prefer to use half hazelnut flour instead of all flour, and add some rum.
Nov 22, 2011 19:27
some people make sugar cookies in the shapes/decorations that other people do gingerbread
Oh, yes, gingerbread is a Christmas staple in Germany too.
But it doesn't look like the American homunculi.
Pepernoten (literally, 'pepper nuts', the Dutch equivalent of Pfeffernüsse) are a cookie-like kind of confectionery, traditionally associated with the early December Sinterklaas holiday in the Netherlands. Are light brown, randomly shaped, and made from the same ingredients as taai-taai (flour, sugar, anise, cinnamon, and clove) and is fairly chewy, though it hardens gradually when exposed to the air. A particularly distinct custom associated with pepernoten is throwing them in handfuls through the room so children can look for them. Originally this is an ancient fertility symbol (like...
These hearts are what you get at markets.
Nov 22, 2011 19:29
@rumtscho Nice :)
Ich liebe dich auch
@Mien I think I've had something similar to that before, but I can't remember what they're called in English...
And the usual gingerbread for Christmas is jonly small round shapes.
Not only Christmas markets, but also Oktoberfest, Kirmes and other folk celebrations.
They are about the size of a coin
@rumtscho Yeah, there are a lot of different shapes that people make out of gingerbread cookies (stars, stockings, snowflakes, trees, etc.), but gingerbread people are common
IT'S 20.30, NO MORE HOLIDAY FOOD TALK!
Nov 22, 2011 19:30
There are also the Pfefferkuchen @Mien posted.
Then there is Spekulatius (these are cookies).
And marzipan in all kinds is connected with Christmas baking.
People buy a bar of pure marzipan and munch on it.
@rumtscho We eat that all year long :)
I see a lot of marzipan in stores near the holidays, but I don't know anyone who actually eats it!
Most of the candies and stuff are more associated with saint nicholas than with christmas here
We have packets of marzipan in the baking isle all year long.
My bf loves it
Nov 22, 2011 19:32
But we have the marzipan packaged for eating in the holiday time.
I'll make some for him soon, easy as shit :)
My family also makes Russian tea cakes at christmas.
@Laura The kind with custard inside and hard pieces of cocoa-rich dough on the custard?
@rumtscho no...they don't have custard, and they're covered with powdered sugar
I've been trying to get a good recipe for this one for ages.
Nov 22, 2011 19:33
they're also called mexican wedding cakes
A Russian tea cake is a kind of pastry, commonly eaten around Christmas in both Russia and the United States. It is a form of jumble, a pastry common in Middle Ages England. They are also known as Mexican wedding cakes (or cookies) and butterballs. Ingredients Russian tea cakes have a relatively simple recipe, generally consisting entirely of ground nuts, flour and water or, more commonly, butter. After baking, they are coated in powdered sugar while still hot, then again once the cookie has cooled. History Russian tea cakes appeared in Russia in the 18th century as a confection used ...
@rumtscho that looks and sounds really tasty, though!
I never knew these. Sound similar to the vanillakipferl.
They're great. And they do make a perfect companion snack to a cup of tea :)
very easy to make, too
So, do you people have no such celebration traditions like the odd number of dishes, the hidden coin, etc.?
For me, this is the fun of Christmas. The good meal can be made on any other day.
Or for other holidays, not necessarily Christmas?
For example, @rfusca reminded me of fish and Christmas lenten.
We aren't allowed to eat it, in general.
But the holy Nikolai is the saint of fishermen, so his nameday is an exception.
It is the 6. December.
Everybody eats fish on that day.
The tradition calls for carp.
Usually it is baked in a dough shell.
@rumtscho My family has some traditions for Easter
But many people think carp is overrated, it is expensive, and smells funny, so they go for other fish.
Nov 22, 2011 19:40
@Mien sorry, busy working :)
@Laura Ah yes, Easter has lots of traditions.
Do you go egg hunting?
@rumtscho Not with real eggs ;) My parents used to hide easter baskets and easter eggs (plastic eggs filled with candy) for my sisters and me to find on Easter morning
That's nice.
And on Christmas, did everybody just give their presents to the others?
That's usually a tradition for small children...but my mom still sends me a package of Easter candy in the mail sometimes
Because we always left them below the tree, ostensibly from Santa.
Nov 22, 2011 19:42
But we make a lot of Hungarian/Czech and Polish traditional Easter baked goods...paska, kolacky, nut and poppy seed rolls
@Laura is this connected to your ancestry, or just because you like them?
@rumtscho ancestry. My dad's family is all from Poland (though they've been in the US for a couple generations), and my mom's family is mostly Hungarian/Czech
@Laura I'm still on a Christmas wave, and I wonder why you didn't share anything about Christmas food from Poland, Hungary or Czech Republic. Do you only follow your ancestral traditions for easter ;)
Haha actually...there's an element of truth to that. Christmas is a much more...multicultural experience? My mom is a great chef and often makes whatever she wants for Christmas
But we do have the Polish breaking bread ceremony (though the "bread" is really a wafer...)
Bread breaking? At church or at home?
Nov 22, 2011 19:46
At home.
We buy this flat, thin wafer, and the head of the household (my dad) reads a little prayer thing (in English, because we don't speak Polish)
Then every person at the table breaks off a large-ish piece of the wafer
And you break off bits of everyone else's...You eat the part you break off of each person's, exchanging well-wishes for the holidays and approaching new year
So you do have traditions beside a turkey after all.
Yes. that's the main one. :)
We actually don't do turkey for Christmas...we have turkey at thanksgiving, and roast beef at Christmas.
I'm not sure where that tradition comes from, though
Is this just your family with the roast beef, or do you know other people who do it that way?
Most of my friends' families in the US have Christmas ham...I don't think I've met anyone else who usually has a Christmas roast beef
And do you have that on Christmas eve, or on Christmas proper?
Nov 22, 2011 19:52
Christmas proper
Christmas eve, we often have some sort of fish...sometimes a fish soup, sometimes just a baked fish or something
Ah, probably connected with the catholic lenten time.
yes
even though my family isn't very religious, that part stuck
Yes, we eat meat the whole lenten time, and often during the day of the 24th too.
But the big meal is vegetarian.
Should actually be ovo-lacto-vegetarian, but this isn't done with us.
Nobody cooks with eggs, but I always eat my dolmadas with yogurt.
And we do have cheese salad sometimes. Maybe also mayonnaise in the salad.
No, mayonnaise would be too much of a "rich" dish.
interesting. I would be very upset if I couldn't have yogurt or cheese :)
We have mayonnaise containing salad on New Years Eve.
We call it "Russian" salad, despite the fact that the Russians don't call it that way.
@Mien no more Belgian holiday topics?
Do you have "Domino stones" for Christmas?
Nov 22, 2011 19:58
@rumtscho the chat event has been going for an hour and a half already...I think maybe people are getting tired ;)
@Laura I quit after an hour :p
@Laura Really? People can get tired from talking about food? :P
@rumtscho I know! I'm not sure how it's possible, but I guess it's true...
OK, then maybe I should quit talking about food too and make some instead.
Haven't had dinner yet.
Nov 22, 2011 20:00
You could do that :)
Maybe I should have Russian tea cake for dinner. I want to try it.
@Laura was the recipe you shared a good, tried one, or just a quick example?
@rumtscho It was a quick example, but it seems very similar to the one I use. (And definitely roll the cookies in powdered sugar twice ;)
@Laura OK, thanks. I'll make it and eat them with yogurt.
hehe
Grr, my butter is fridge-cold. Dinner will wait a bit :(
Nov 22, 2011 20:14
@rumtscho What are you making, that room-temperature butter is so essential?
room temp butter is always essential unless you're making a crust or finishing a sauce
@Laura I want to make the Russian cookies.
I have to cream the butter for them, then combine quickly with flour.
This doesn't work with cold butter.
But the butter won't get soft quickly, it's 19 degrees here.
I think I will turn the dishwasher on and put them on top, I think it won't get hot enough to melt the butter.
@rumtscho I set my butter in a glass bowl near the vent on my oven while it preheats
@hobodave Good idea, I will have to find a sweet spot.
The problem is that there isn't much room around the oven and I'm afraid to put it too close.
@hobodave I use the microwave...
'soften butter' button
Nov 22, 2011 20:27
mine doesn't have that
you're missing out
it has a butter button but it just melts it
microwaves suck too much at that
I don't have a microwave at all
But when I had one, it heated very inconsistently
despite having a "turntable"
@hobodave mine softens extremely well
its large enough to reheat a 9x13 casserole in too - which is handy around the holidays
@rumtscho ooooh...I missed the part earlier where you said you were going to make those cookies for dinner :D
Nov 22, 2011 20:36
@Laura what cookies?
@Laura Now I'm ready to start mixing
The walnuts, they should be chopped, right?
Not grated into too small pieces?
Now I have reduced them to 3 to 7 mm pieces.
Grating would make them so small as not to be felt when chewed on.
So, should they be noticeable in the cookies?
@hobodave holding the butter in the general vicinity of the oven was a good idea, even though I had to start preheating too early and will have to repeat it now.
And, as for size
@Laura does 1 "serving" in the Allrecipes recipe mean "one ball"?
Ah, OK, it says 1 inch balls. I can work with that.
@rfusca Russian tea cakes/Mexican wedding cookies
@rumtscho yes, chopped. fairly small, but if you like the crunch, you can make them big enough to feel when you chew them
@rumtscho I have no idea how many cookies are in a "serving" for that recipe
given that they are 1-inch balls...maybe 2 or three cookies?
Nov 22, 2011 20:54
You were right :p
@Laura Thank you, I only wanted to know it so I could have some orienting for how big to make the cookies.
I had overlooked the "1 inch" part.
Now I made them, and it looks like 1 "serving" = 1 cookie.
I scaled the recipe to 16 servings, and got 17 balls
Actually even better, because I could place them in a nice easy equidistant pattern on the cookie sheet.
Which of course doesn't help all that much, because my oven doesn't heat as even as I'd like it to.
spacing them out on the cookie sheet is a start :)
@Laura At least I'll automatically know how baked I prefer them, seeing that each will be baked to a different stage :)
I notice now that I could have made a good pattern with 16 too
that's a very optimistic way of looking at it
It would have been a square pattern, better suited to my square baking sheet
the one now is concentric
but, the oven has the worst evenness problems in the corners, so maybe concentric is still better ;)
@Mien Very nice site, thank you
There are things in it I knew but forgot to tell
and others I have never heard of
Nov 22, 2011 21:03
I found it while googling your fruit tea thing
I didn't even know the word "chomlek"
although I've eaten similar stews.
@Mien Good luck with that. The thing has four different spellings in Cyrillic, and each of them has a number of transliterations to Romanic.
Roughly, "oshav", "ushav", "oshaf" and "ushaf" can be all correct, as well as "ushaw", "oushaw", etc.
And in informal chatting, I'm as likely to write "o6aw" as "oshaw". Although this spelling shouldn't bring any well prepared information articles.
Dinner.
Thank you @Laura
you're welcome! looks delicious :)
bon appetit!
I had to sift the sugar over them, because they melted it when rolling. I'm too impatient to wait for them to cool down.
haha understandable
Nov 22, 2011 21:19
so, @rumtscho, are they good?
I see they're easy to make, I might make them as well :p
Back at the PC
@Mien Yes, I liked them.
But I must confess I like Vanillekipferl more.
They are a very similar dough, but the thin shape works better for me.
I'm thinking of putting one on each dessert for christmas eve :p
I would make smaller balls
And also, for Vanillekipferl additional vanila flavor is mixed into the sifting sugar.
did you taste the vanilla now?
And if they are paired with nuts, they are paired with almonds instead of walnuts.
@Mien Few to none. But I didn't have vanilla extract.
I used half a vanilla bean.
But I guess that there wasn't anything to leach the aroma from the seeds.
The melting butter must have helped a bit, but not that much.
Nov 22, 2011 21:29
I don't have vanilla extract as well, but I would use a small capsule with vanilla/butter-aroma
@Mien this looks like a good Vanillekipferl recipe.
But I would start with almond flour instead of making my own.
Or if I grate it, I wouldn't go to the trouble of peeling the brown skin of the nuts first.
Would it work if I used walnuts instead of almonds and hazelnuts?
i've never much cared for those kind of cookies - but it may be i've never had good ones. I've never made them myself
I might have some almond powder left over by then
@Mien yes, it will work. I think it is better with almonds, or a hazelnut+rum without vanilla, but it is maybe just being used to these.
Nov 22, 2011 21:31
I'll see what I have and how much time I have :)
I do have rum extract
but it wouldn't fit well with the rest of the dessert I guess
@rfusca Have you tried them in a thin variety? I really don't like the too-crumbly-feeling of biting into the ball.
@rumtscho I don't recall if I have
@Mien That's the nice part about them, they're very quick to make.
I usually just avoid them now
what does Prise mean? Pinch?
Nov 22, 2011 21:32
I wouldn't eat them pure, they are too rich.
@Mien yes
But with yogurt, they are great.
Or with something creamy.
ah
excellent then :)
But the creamy thing shouldn't have too much fat.
Philadelphia and cream - mixture => should be fine, no?
@Mien I don't know if you understand the instructions, it is a basic short pastry method. Cut the butter into the flour, work cold, etc.
@Mien A bit rich, but if you don't mind that, I think it will pair well.
Yes, but there are also raspberries and some chocolate and something with the taste of your so-called Spekulatius
Nov 22, 2011 21:36
Heh, chefkoch.de already has a suggestion list with thirty Christmas cookie recipes.
But I'm gonna log off
see you tomorrow peeps :)
One of them is for stars filled with mulled wine jelly.
There are also "Belgian Caramel Cookies" there.
@Mien ciao
@mien goodnight
 
Conversation ended Nov 22, 2011 at 21:37.