Conversation started Sep 29, 2016 at 11:01.
Sep 29, 2016 11:01
Would be question about world effect balance be on topic for site?
depends on the question
I'm not sure what "world effect balance" means.
I want to add something like ley lines in my world: casters would be heavily affected by this. For example: in certain conditions, I want to give casters power to "tap" into ley line and restore spell slot at the cost of hit points. And there are few more effects.
What system?
dnd 5e
By balance I mean: economy balance between hp cost and power gained.
Sep 29, 2016 11:05
I dunno about 5e, but in 3.5 and 4e "power for hit points" was always definitionally broken.
in general in RPGs, options = power
Not how it would be fair or not to non-caster classes or monsters.
There's just too many ways to make your character not care about hp loss.
@BESW ok. :)
I mean, I once made a character whose gimmick was to run into melee and cast fireball on HIMSELF. Because the damage he took gave him bonuses including temporary hp.
Sep 29, 2016 11:07
@RollingFeles I think asking about homebrew rules is ok, BUT answers need to be backed with experience and no one has played your homebrew
Well, the question will be: what's a good cost? e.g. slot level x casters hit die and ways to protect this from exploits.
That'd be answerable.
pls also bear in mind that if you can exchange HP for spell slots, you can use those spell slots on spells that restore HP.
@JoelHarmon I've seen a couple of questions "how to balance this homebrew thing" with pretty good reception. I will find examples later.
the baseline would be Cure and any other healing spell
Sep 29, 2016 11:09
@doppelgreener Yeah, that's the sort of thing I want to know. Thanks! :)
@JoelHarmon Experience with similar homebrew is fine, so long as it's reasonable to draw comparisons.
Well, I would be grateful for math/statistics for economical standpoint.
or hard system logic, like Cure in this example.
@RollingFeles My gut feeling from seeing similar things in 3.5 and 4e is that you can't do it. In order to make it harsh enough to not be trivially bypassable, you'd make it so harsh nobody would find it worthwhile.
Another thing I'd warn: with the exception of D&D 4e, D&D has traditionally lumped magic users with more, better features and flexibility as they go along to achieve ever more miraculous feats and more of them in the same day, while giving non-magical people... ways to hit people slightly harder with a sword. or stuff like that. D&D 5e also seems to do that.
Sep 29, 2016 11:11
so yes, I was simplifying.
@BESW not necessarily nobody; just the very desperate, which can make a great story
this is another feature that only magic users benefit from, which gives them power and flexibility (more stuff in the same day when a primary limitation on their power was always the amount of stuff they could do in one day! wow! who wouldn't want that?) while giving non-magical characters... nothing, like usual.
i would advise non-magical characters should be able to benefit from leylines directly, or there should be a similar offering to non-magical characters.
@doppelgreener it does appear to be location limited
@BESW I see your point. Still, I don't want use it to as regular mechanic. Ley lines would be something caster will feel, they will be limited with their geographic placement(players could try to draw map for them and invest in world magic-science!) and their activity time: some periodic event when ley lines are blazing with magic.
@JoelHarmon it's still making magical characters even more awesome still, while making non-magical users even more irrelevant for lack of the awesomeness they're given
I once offered a similar gimmick in a 3.5 campaign, but instead of hp I tied it to XP.
Sep 29, 2016 11:14
If players would consider planing to use it base on it's geography and it's period - it would be great.
in summary, we're answering his question, when we should just say "yes, it is on topic"
i'm not answering his question on how to do it, i'm warning of potential problems about it
@JoelHarmon I'm grateful, because you're giving me topics to consider, so my question would be more "researched" :)
...and it was a major plot point, as an entire civilisation of sorcerous demon-cats had accidentally level-drained themselves into catmen using it.
"here is where this fails" is an answer...
Sep 29, 2016 11:15
@user3229944 Hi.
@JoelHarmon not to "how do i make this work", which i don't know the answer to.
research is a fair point, @RollingFeles
it's part of an answer at best, and i don't really care if i'm filling out that part of the answer.
@doppelgreener I've read a lot about liniar fighters, but fighters in 5e are very enjoyable for me :) Also, I'm considering this to be harsh experience for magic users too: wisdom safe throw in order to bear with magic burning in their bodies. The thing is to make risky and interesting.
Relephant: the stuff didn't give you more spells. It let you apply metamagic feats to your own spells, even if you didn't have the feats or the higher level slots to use them.
Sep 29, 2016 11:17
Great suggestion!
The more levels worth of metamagic you applied to a spell, the more XP it burnt out of you.
I'm thinking about just more effective spells too: more damage, duration, targets.
that's metamagic
The thing about HP is that it's easily, trivially restored.
check out the sorcerer
Sep 29, 2016 11:19
If loss of HP doesn't kill you in that scene, it probably doesn't matter that you lost any.
3
@doppelgreener I'm thinking about non-magical things too. But it's another topic. Any ideas, examples of such gimmicks for fighters are welcome :)
kinda; multiple encounters without rest has its own pseudo-hitpoints
@BESW well, as always: resource economy.
@RollingFeles Look at spells, re-flavour them.
Fireball? Whirlwind of blades: the fighter moves so fast he seems to be everywhere at once, attacking everything.
And about healing: I think it might very well burn the users during this ley lines activation: everyone are overflowed with magic and then: boom, someone try to fill another flesh with some more and instead of healing, there are burns. But I want to show this to players before they try, otherwise I think it would be frustrating.
Sep 29, 2016 11:22
@RollingFeles Look up the Positive Energy Plane.
@RollingFeles i'd honestly let fighters and other nonmagical characters benefit from leylines themselves, but i'm not sure what mechanic it should grant them.
(@Joel now I guess I definitely am getting into the realm of answering it to some limited extent, but I think this is still healthy talk to have. if we happen to come up with a full solution, whoever's an expert enough to provide it could bring it to main site.)
Here's the flavour I'd dump on it: leylines are fonts of raw magical power, right? And adventurers in this world are around magic constantly; they've almost certainly learned a thing or two about dealing with it, even if they don't know how to make full use of it. Leylines would infuse nonmagical characters with significant power, one way or another.
I've had several instances where discussions here led direction to Q&A on the mainsite which was basically just boiling down the discussion so one person asked and another answered.
Spellcasters would have the same happen to them (and they can let that happen), but they're expert enough in funnelling magic they put it to a more useful purpose rather than let it run rampant on their physical being.
It's meta questions that we shouldn't answer too much here.
Mainsite Qs are fair game so long as they make it back to mainsite eventually.
@doppelgreener That's nice! Thanks!
Sep 29, 2016 11:31
@RollingFeles Yay!
I imagine how it interacts with each player character might vary, and it might be fun to let the players themselves say how. Some of them might have an "oh no what's happening!!" kinda experience as power just gets shoved on them; for some of them the leyline magic might be guided by their instincts to give them stuff they didn't know they wanted; some of them might be able to consciously guide it to give them roughly something they know they want.
Anyone who consumes a powersource larger than his head is going to feel it in the morning, one way or another.
I will think over this. I want either situation where everyone will get some power boost or when caster would be more powerfull, but more vulnarable and with it limit the ways to shield caster. If they tap into activated ley line they won't be able to burn everything, then go away few miles and let cleric heal them, or just take a short rest. I want to make this tough choice.
And in the same time, non-magical users would be safeguards and they will(or it would be better to say: I want to arrange this) shine after caster played his part.
...wow these sweet potato pancakes are puffy.
I have a couple of things buzzing through my head: magical creatures who hung around leylines too long and became enormous, horrific monstrosities, and giving leylines no drawback and instead just using the presence of one as an awesome mechanical/plot device for a particular setpiece, like an Epic Battle featuring Magically Empowered Heroes vs Ferociously Powerful Big Bad.
Still, the situation: "hey, caster has some neat and dangerous feature and we're better just because we're not affected by cost?" is kinda lame. If I'm not giving them features with ley lines, I want to add it other way.
Sep 29, 2016 11:36
(in such a world I'd be tempted to say that the Tarrasque was, I don't know, just some brown bear that happened to be snoozing right on a leyline eruption -- and then it started pursuing other leyline eruptions to consume the power they're just putting out there for the taking, and it's still doing that today.)
@doppelgreener I'm thinking about ley hunter monsters or such. Caster who taps in, would become hunter's sweetest desire. So, party can ambush big bad and use ley line activation(they need to predict it's activation) and after the fight caster would be exhausted and vulnerable and party will have to deal with beast who wants him dead.
@doppelgreener that's a curious thought :)
Heh. "Let's lure the Big Bad Guy toward the ley lines so we can kick his face in!"
"...and have the Arcane Dragon of Doom show up to eat us AND him? No thanks."
"Aw, come on, we can take the dragon too!"
@RollingFeles I am sure that in a world full of wizard academics for whom leylines would have particular relevance, someone would have started working on a way to forecast leyline activity.
They have a thing with a npc halfling and his goat. I may give this goat an escape during such thing. They will love it :)
Ley-infused Goatasque.
@RollingFeles I love it.
Sep 29, 2016 11:38
@doppelgreener Yep! Some lines will be known, some basis for activation forecasting too.
I want to encourage players to study this: map unknown lines and find the way to predict their activation.
"Hey, this Big Bad Guy is marching our way. We can face him now or we can use leyline activation in two days to overcome him. But during this two days we must arrange safe escape for innocent folk from BBG"
@RollingFeles perfection XD
I would love to see this.
@RollingFeles oh, cool. continuous plot device?
@doppelgreener yep, something like this.
I'm getting fond of the idea that ley lines attract/beget monsters.
That makes them a hazard in and of themselves also.
A ley line could then cause plot problems AND solve plot problems.
An activating ley line means the locals evacuate while the hunters arrive.
Both of which mean extra cool stuff for the PCs to get involved with in addition to whatever the PCs want with the ley line.
[scribbles notes]
Sep 29, 2016 11:44
About monsters: "Hey, we need that ingridient for some very important things. Where can we get this?" "Well, have you ever met ley-infused owlbear?"
@BESW Yep!
"Ley-infused owbear" would be a good name for an exotic tea.
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I'm going to save permalink for this first message. Gonna go through this and extract most valuable ideas later.
 
Conversation ended Sep 29, 2016 at 11:45.