Discussion on buying a new laptop

Guru Vishnu

Apr 10, 2020 14:31

@JohnRennie: Hi sir :-)

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu hi :-)

Guru Vishnu

After some time, when opportunity window reopens, I'm planning to buy a new laptop as the current one I'm using is more than 5 years old and started giving few troubles, mainly - in the bottom part about the size of taskbar, red pixels have completely stopped working, only 50% of blue pixels are active and green pixels work well. Due to this the colour is kind of inverted.

Could you please guide me on how to choose the appropriate laptop which I most probably be using for reading and some simulations?

As of now, I'm having some threshold specifications in my mind like a 15.6" monitor with numerical keypad.

@JohnRennie: Shall we discuss about this now or have it for a future discussion?

John Rennie

It's surprisingly easy to choose a laptop because there are no bad laptops on sale any more.

You already know you want a 15" screen and a numeric keypad, and the only other thing that you must, must get is a a solid state disk (SSD). SSDs are the single most important factor in making a laptop fast.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. Previously you mentioned a 8 GB RAM is mandatory for Windows 10 as I'm currently running on a 2 GB one. Is there anything else I need to look for, sir?

John Rennie

Yes, 8GB RAM is the starting point. 16GB is better, but you'd only find that in the expensive laptops and 8GB is fine for most purposes.

I quite like Lenovo laptops. I have a Lenovo Chromebook and my niece has a top end Lenovo laptop.

But Dell and HP are good as well.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 10, 2020 14:43

I too like Lenovo mainly because I've been used to it for more than 5 years.

So, most probably, my domain is limited to this brand as of now.

@JohnRennie When I looked at the Lenovo site for laptops, I noticed some have both HDD and SSD. Some have only HDD and others only SSD. Which one to choose?

John Rennie

SSD

You must get an SSD.

Seriously, if you get the old type HDD you'll be regretting it for years.

Something like an Ideapad S340 15

lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/ideapad/s-series/…

Guru Vishnu

Yes sir. I understand that. But it seems SSDs have less memory to cost ratio than HDDs. So they are combined in this fashion - 1 TB HDD + 126 GB SSD. Do I need to prefer a pure SSD over a dual memory like SSD + HDD?

John Rennie

Pure SSD. You don't normally need a huge disk in a laptop. You can use an external disk if you need to keep really large files like loads of films.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. What is the minimum amount of space needed for a laptop to function properly? BTW I don't watch films much, so I doubt what I'll using the memory for.

John Rennie

256GB should be fine, and that's pretty standard in laptops these days.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 10, 2020 14:52

Ok sir. What kind of processors I need to looks for? Intel or AMD?

The former is more familiar name to me as the current laptop I'm using runs on an Intel Celeron.

John Rennie

I'd choose Intel.

But the way to do this is to look on Flipkart (when they reopen) and see what they have in your price range.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. I'm actually looking on the official Lenovo website.

It's open currently, but it seems they'd start shipping only after 16th April.

I'm trying to apply the filters one by one.

John Rennie

lenovo.com/in/en/laptops/ideapad/s-series/…

Look at that one.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir.

@JohnRennie Looks better than the one I'm currently having. It seems the middle one matches with the "pure" SSD specification.

But I think I don't need a graphics card as I'm not going to play extreme games.

Isn't Integrated graphics sufficient for me compared to NVIDIA® MX230 2GB GDDR5?

Or does it serve some purpose other than games?

John Rennie

Apr 10, 2020 15:08

Yes, integrated graphics would be fine, but I'm not sure if Lenovo do the sort of laptop you want with only inegrated graphics.

Guru Vishnu

(Shall we continue our discussion either later today if you are available or tomorrow? I'm going to have my dinner.)

John Rennie

OK. I'll be around tomorrow as usual.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 04:23

@JohnRennie: Hi sir. Good morning :-)

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu hi :-)

Guru Vishnu

Are you free now? If yes, shall we continue our tech discussion?

John Rennie

I'm just going to make a coffee, but will only take a couple of minutes

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. No problem.

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu hi, coffee made!

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 04:34

Fine.

@JohnRennie Sir, I'm planning to add one more constraint - I think it'd be better to have fingerprint reader. I'm tired of typing the pin every time I log in. Also I don't know how to disable it.

But I don't see how to apply such a filter on the Lenovo site.

Could you please guide me in this regard, sir?

John Rennie

A fingerprint reader is nice, but I'd regard it as an optional extra.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. Are they present only in very expensive ones?

John Rennie

The main thing is to get a laptop that's going to be fast and reliable. If you can get a fingerprint reader as well then that's great, but I wouldn't let the search for a fingerprint reader divert you from the more important things.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. I understand. For fast, I need to choose something with at least 8 GB RAM, and SSD like the ideapad S340 you showed yesterday. How do I know something is reliable? Is it the ThinkPad series which are used on the space station?

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu I can't see a way to filter for a fingerprint reader ...

@GuruVishnu to be fair, all Lenovo laptops are going to be reliable so it isn't really an issue.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 04:43

@JohnRennie Yes sir; I thought it would save time while logging in.

John Rennie

It's nice to have a fingerprint reader. Do you have a budget? How much can you spend on the laptop?

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie I think it's about 70k INR. I'm not sure. I've to discuss that with my parents.

Definitely, even if they allow, I'll not choose stuff with more than 1 Lakhs.

John Rennie

So it's going to be an S340 or a S540 if you want a 15" screen.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. I'm sure I need a 15.6" because even a 14" seems small to me. Probably this is because, I'm used to this size for a long period of time. Let me check S540. Is that an ideapad?

John Rennie

S540

I sorted all the 15" laptops by price

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 04:52

@JohnRennie Wow! It has a fingerprint reader, I was looking for :-)

What does this mean? 4.0GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SODIMM 2400MHz + 4.0GB PC4-19200 DDR4 Soldered 2400MHz

8.0 GB RAM?

John Rennie

Yes. It means 4GB soldered onto the motherboard and one SODIMM slot containing a second 4GB DIMM.

You can't change the memory soldered to the motherboard, but you can replace the 4GB DIMM with a bigger one is you want.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. So in future, if I wish to upgrade, I can only insert one extra RAM PCB so I'll be limited by 20 GB. Am I right?

16+4=20

John Rennie

It says "Up to 12 GB DDR4" so I guess the slot only takes up to an 8GB DIMM giving 4+8

Guru Vishnu

I see. Can't it be 12+4=16?

John Rennie

There is no 12GB DIMM. The DIMM sizes are only 4, 8 and 16, and the spec implies it can't take a 16GB DIMM.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 05:00

@JohnRennie Oops. Ok sir. I didn't know that. It seems it increases only in the power of 2.

But what does this mean?

> Up to 16 GB Optane™ DRAM

John Rennie

Optane is a technology for speeding up disks, but I'm unconvinced it's necessary on laptops. It's more of a server technology.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir.

John Rennie

To be fair 12GB RAM is fine unless you're doing something really demanding like video editing.

Actually 8GB will be fine. My laptop has 8GB and I've never had problems with low memory.

The PC I'm working on has 16GB, but that's only needed for a few specialist applications.

Guru Vishnu

Fine. Then I also think it's more than sufficient. As of now, I just want PowerPoint to open without "Not Responding".

John Rennie

That will be a combination of only 2GB memory and a slow disk.

You would find that you current laptop would be transformed if you installed more memory and a solid state disk. But whether it's worth spending the money on an old laptop is debatable.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 05:08

Ok sir. I found that both the laptop B590 and Intel Celeron are out of the production line. Also I doubt whether I'll find any appropriate displays. I guess upgradation will be about 10k to 15k rupees. Also this is limited to 8 GB, I think.

So, getting a new one is better as I think this will start giving troubles in future. But I must say this worked really well for more than 5 years.

John Rennie

Nearer 10K than 15K, but it's still large chunk of the money for a new laptop. And you'd still have a dodgy screen.

Guru Vishnu

Hm. Ok sir. How do you know whether the current system I'm using has a TN or IPS display?

I'm also concerned about it not giving eye irritation due to extended usage.

John Rennie

Is it this laptop

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Yes sir. I hope there are no sub-shell variants.

John Rennie

It would be easy to upgrade the memory and disk. I wonder what memory it takes.

It would probably take up to 8GB.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 05:16

@JohnRennie Yes sir - lenovo.com/in/en/laptops/lenovo/b-series/b590

I think the above link gives a good amount of details.

John Rennie

I've probably got memory that would fit in my pile of old computer parts. As and when the world gets back to normal I can post you a couple of 4GB DIMMs. I might even have an old SSD that would fit.

Guru Vishnu

But I was unable find whether it's TN or IPS from "HD LED anti-glare"; also mine is not anti-glare. It has a glassy finish so I can see the reflections if I sit in front of a bright source of light.

@JohnRennie Thank you sir :-)

John Rennie

No, I can't see anywhere that it gives the screen type.

Guru Vishnu

I think it would be better to have a new one. I received this one as a gift from pogo.

John Rennie

Yes, the danger is that if you upgrade the old laptop your parents might decide you don't need a new one :-)

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 05:21

@JohnRennie Ok sir. I was concentrating on that part because this one makes my eyes red after prolonged use.

and also burn

John Rennie

I remember you saying that was a problem. Are you still finding it happens?

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Ah! Yes sir :-) I feel enthusiastic about getting a new one, however.

@JohnRennie Yes sir :-( This is specific only with my laptop monitor. I watch TV while eating, read articles from my mom's mobile. But irritation exists only when I'm on my laptop. On other devices, I find it as comfortable as reading from my books.

John Rennie

I think you'll be amazed at how fast a laptop like the S340 is compared to your old one, and how nice the screen is.

Guru Vishnu

:-)

I think currently I have two options:

1. S340 - 60K INR

2. S540 - 68K INR

Let me compare them category wise.

How to know how is one processor different from another?

based on speed and performance alone?

John Rennie

I use this site to check CPU speed

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 05:30

I think I can bridge the 8K difference using the prize money I received in Grade 10 :-)

John Rennie

But to be honest modern CPUs are so fast that even the lower spec i3s are still more than fast enough for everyday use.

I had a quick look and both laptops have processors that are the same or faster than the CPU in my PC here. Both will be sufficiently powerful that you'll never have to worry about the performance.

cpubenchmark.net/…

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. I don't know why is that webpage slowly loading here. I entered the name of the processor in the search box and I can only see a yellow rectangle with a white background.

John Rennie

I'm not sure why there should be a problem, but anyway it doesn't matter. Both CPUs are plenty fast! :-)

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 05:49

@JohnRennie Probably Intel Celeron got angry on seeing a lot of super fast processors on the webpage you mentioned. That's why he is not cooperating with loading that on my laptop. But I had a glimpse on those two processors :-)

John Rennie

:-)

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 06:21

@JohnRennie: Hi sir. Are you free now?

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu yes

Guru Vishnu

When I opened the "Build your own laptop" tab on the Lenovo website, I came across Thinkbook 15 IIL. It seems I can opt out of the graphics card and instead choose a slightly powerful processor while maintaining almost constant cost. Also it's battery capacity is slightly higher than S540 and has a USB bay for wireless mouse's micro receiver (which I think is quite innovative).

Could you tell whether this one is good or not? It doesn't have any reviews like S540. But has almost the same cost as of S540.

Also it has slightly large number of I/O ports. Mainly RJ-45 is absent in S540.

John Rennie

Yes, that looks pretty good. When I choose 8GB ram and a 512GB SSD it comes to ₹59,613 and that's about the same as the S340.

There is a review of that laptop here

> The ThinkBook 15 is a simple office laptop that scores well for its modern design and good input devices. Its Comet Lake processor provides a small performance boost over its Kaby Lake and Whiskey Lake predecessors too, with the Core i5-10210U in our review unit always on hand to get through general tasks. In short, the CPU makes the ThinkBook 15 suitable for use as a home office laptop, for example. The plentiful 16 GB of RAM and fast 512 GB NVMe SSD keep things ticking over too.

The display will divide opinion, though. While we rate its matte finish and good viewing angles, its low col…

Battery life looks a bit short ...

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 06:47

@JohnRennie I thought a 57 Wh battery (ThinkBook15) lasts longer than a 52.5 Wh (S540 & S340).

John Rennie

To be honest the S340 looks a nicer laptop ...

S340 review here

S540 review here

Hmm, the battery life on the S340 is rather short as well.

Guru Vishnu

Thank you for the links sir. There is really a lot to read there. First thing I noticed was... Do I need to consider whether the chassis is made of plastic or aluminium? I can think of both pros and cons for each material.

John Rennie

It doesn't make any difference

I have some plastic and some metal laptops, and I barely notice the difference.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie I guess that website provides the battery life for a 45 Wh battery. But I think we can opt for a 57 Wh battery with just an additional 325 Rupees. I looked at the possible options on the official website's customization window.

How do you calculate the exact battery life from the battery capacity in Wh?

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu OK, yes, that would be a good option and it's cheap :-)

Yes, that review is of a laptop with the smaller battery, so the larger battery should give to more than eight hours use, which is fine. OK, that Thinkpad does look a good option.

You realise that by the time you're ready to buy all the options will have changed, and you'll have to do this research all over again? But then it is a lot of fun :-)

I need to work for a bit now. I'll be back in about an hour.

Guru Vishnu

Apr 11, 2020 08:29

@JohnRennie Hi sir. Are you free now?

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu I'm just answering a question in another room, but I shouldn't be too long.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. No problem.

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu free now!

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie :-)

Sir, I just wanted to ask whether Windows 10 Pro is faster than Windows 10 Home? I read this webpage and I don't see it'll make any difference for me. However, there's no mention about the speed and performance of one over the other. I'm currently using Windows 10 Pro 32 bit.

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 08:46

There is effectively no difference. Pro has a few extra features that can be useful but these generally only apply to business users rather than home users.

For example with Pro you can work remotely on your PC e.g. if your PC is at the office and you are at home then you can connect to your PC at the office through a VPN or some similar connection and work on your office PC. You can't do this with Home.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie TeamViewer does the same thing, right sir?

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu yes, though you need to pay for TeamViewer. If you were going to pay for TeamViewer I'd say just buy Pro instead.

I have used Home on my main PC, the PC I'm working on now, and it was fine.

I switched back to Pro because Pro has some other features I use, but I could work with Home if I had to.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. So even if for the time being I buy Home, is it possible to upgrade to Pro if need arises in distant future?

John Rennie

It is possible to upgrade, yes.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. Just for clarification - I just need to pay the extra charges for Pro instead of a whole new package, right sir?

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 08:52

Yes. You just buy a licence key for Pro, feed in the new key and Windows upgrades itself.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. I think Home will be sufficient for now, as I don't even understand anything listed under "Business Management and Deployment" in that webpage.

I'm just going through the customisation process for fun. Does the frequency of RAM - 2666 MHz or 3200 MHz make any difference to the performance? Both are equally priced for a certain chunk of memory.

If yes, which one should I choose, sir?

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu Higher frequency is better.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Ok. What is oscillating here?

John Rennie

Higher frequency means the memory is faster so any programs reading and writing to the memory (i.e. all programs :-) will run faster.

@GuruVishnu all PCs have a clock that runs them. It's the frequency of this clock that determines the speed. Higher frequency is better.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Fine. I see a ":-)" in your message which means to me PowerPoint (the slowest program to load on my system). It's surprising that higher performance comes at an exactly equal cost?

@JohnRennie Ok sir. Atomic clocks? Or just ordinary crystals? :-)

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 09:11

@GuruVishnu just a regular quartz oscillator

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. Could you tell whether a "dummy" hard disk means I need to carry some non zero mass which is of no use to the computer's performance?

If yes, what's the point of its existence?

John Rennie

I saw that and I have no idea what it means.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie: Ok sir. A last doubt:

I understand higher the price is better.

But what do those numbers imply for the performance?

2242 and 2280

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu I don't know ...

You'll have to Google it.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir.

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 09:21

@GuruVishnu ah, it's just the physical size of the SSD.

2280 means the physical size is 22mm by 80mm

Likewise for 2242.

The physical size is irrelevant. I'm surprised they offer you a choice.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. It's counter-intuitive that a compact drive is cheaper than a bulkier one.

@JohnRennie I see. I don't know about these much.

John Rennie

Shrug :-)

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie: Sir, can a single laptop store more than one SSDs? If yes, where can I find how many can it have at the maximum? I'm just thinking of this, so that I could upgrade memory if needed in the future.

Also, I'm wondering what if we have two SSDs in both the first and second hard drives?

John Rennie

Some laptops can take two SSDs, but I don't think the Thinkpad does.

Guru Vishnu

It's ThinkBook and not ThinkPad, sir :-)

Both have "Think" however...

@JohnRennie Ok sir. Did you take screen flickering frequency into account while buying a new laptop?

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 09:37

All modern laptops have a screen refresh rate of at least 60Hz, and this is fast enough that there is no flicker.

You only need worry about the refresh rate if you're a competitive gamer.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Ah. Fine. I'm concerned only with zero eye strain reading. I'm not a professional gamer :-)

@JohnRennie Ok sir. Here it was mentioned the refresh rate is low and hence is distinguishable for a normal person. IMO it looks like an advertisement to buy their profiles.

When must I prefer Free-DOS over Win 10 Home or Professional? Is it for transferring licence from one device to the new one?

John Rennie

> Lenovo ThinkBook 15’s display doesn’t use PWM only at maximum brightness. Additionally, the flickerings are with a very low frequency – 300 Hz, which makes the display uncomfortable and possibly harmful for your eyes.

Hmm, I'm not sure I believe a word of that.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Only now I notice that the frequency they mention - 300 Hz is lot higher than the threshold 60 Hz you mentioned sir. Then it's just an advertisement for their profiles somewhere below that section.

John Rennie

@GuruVishnu Free-DOS is utterly useless. It's only offered as an option so you can buy the laptop without paying for Windows e.g. you might want to run Linux on it, in which case you don't want to pay for a copy of windows that you aren't going to use.

Before you click the buy button it's good to look at a range of reviews. Don't just read one review. If there really is a problem then all the reviews will mention it.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Ok sir. I understand. Is that the reason (especially for ThinkBook), they don't show the reviews on the official site?

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 09:47

I have no idea

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. No problem. Are there any other tips you'd wish to offer?

John Rennie

livemint.com/technology/tech-reviews/…

Actually they also mention that the screen isn't great ...

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Did you mean "display angles" or the coverage of only 50% of sRGB as mentioned in the previous link? Further it says the price is 31K. It's lot lesser than the minimum possible amount. May be the prices have increased since then.

John Rennie

display angles.

The 50% coverage is irrelevant unless you do professional picture or video editing.

Guru Vishnu

@JohnRennie Ok sir. Some time ago when I was looking for the difference between TN and IPS displays, I came to know IPS are meant for wide viewing angles. I might be incorrect. I'm just guessing that the review is meant for TN displays. In the process of searching new laptops, I really learnt new stuff some from the internet and a lot from you :-)

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 09:57

I think gamers prefer TN because the refresh time is shorter. For general use IPS is better.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir. Do you know which one is better for long duration reading? Or at least, if you're spending a lot of time reading on your computer and have no eye irritation, which type of display do you use?

Or I think, first I need to know what is the display type of the TV and mobile phone present in my house as I feel totally good with them.

John Rennie

I would say IPS is better.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir.

While looking for the specs of my mom's mobile, I realised that it has 1 GB extra memory than this laptop. It's 3 GB, mine is 2 GB with an usable volume of 1.60 GB :D

Galaxy J7 Prime

There are even more types of display:

> PLS TFT LCD

John Rennie

Yes, my phone has 6GB memory :-)

Guru Vishnu

:-)

John Rennie

Apr 11, 2020 10:06

But then modern phones are as powerful as low end laptops these days.

Guru Vishnu

Hm. I think most of our devices are more powerful than the computers when sent humans to the moon and back!

@JohnRennie: Which mode do you usually prefer to purchase laptops, sir - official website, shopping sites like amazon, flipkart, or a local store? As of now, the only possible option for me is the official website.

John Rennie

There isn't a single answer to that. I tend to buy from Amazon, but my last laptop (a Lenovo Chromebook) I bought from the Lenovo website because they had an offer on that made it the cheapest option.

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir.

At the time of buying a new laptop (well I don't know when exactly it is), is it ok to ask for some final advice, sir? :-)

John Rennie

Yes, of course

Guru Vishnu

Ok sir.

Thank you very much for the great discussion on computers :-)

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