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2:01 PM
@ScottPack Thanks, very relevant indeed.
 
@TerryChia vortaq's answer is probably less relevant, but also great information.
 
Ok, I have some questions from a non-security perspective which maybe some of you can shed some light on since it's the first time I'm attempting anything like that.
 
@TerryChia I don't understand your question. Marking files as read-only obviously won't prevent a bug in the application from being exploited
 
My plan is to allow the user to upload files which will be stored on the file system. Some sort of metadata like the uploaded files name, hash value etc in a database to make searching efficient. Is this the accepted/most efficient way of going about it?
 
@TerryChia save the files as a hash of their upload name, store the original name in the database.
 
2:05 PM
@Gilles Well, it's more of a "don't allow users to upload arbitrary malicious scripts that can be executed" sort of thing. I'm ignoring any bugs in the application in my assumptions. I'll work to keep bugs to a minimum of course.
It's a school project so obviously won't be used in any production settings.
@lynks Yeah thanks. That's my plan.
 
@TerryChia so don't execute the scripts then
 
@TerryChia sorry I read it the other way around
 
to avoid accidental execution, it may be a good idea to systematically rename the files to a random alphanumeric string, and store the association between the uploader-chosen name and the actual file name in a database
 
@lynks Really? Shouldn't he salt it with a random string?
I'm just asking, I don't have much experience in that
 
@Gilles but then when a user downloads their file wouldn't they get an ugly numeric filename or would you suggest renaming the file when downloading?
 
2:11 PM
@Adnan yes the file names should not be calculable without database access
 
@AndyMac That's why you have header('Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="");
 
which also means removing the read directory permission
 
I see
 
@Adnan yup, its always a good idea to provide file downloads via some kind of script, it gives you so much control
 
@lynks But I still don't get what you said. Should he or shouldn't he salt the name? (or generate a random string).
Hashing the file name doesn't seem like a super good idea
Actually, it seems like a bad idea
 
2:13 PM
@Adnan it really doesnt matter, as long as you require database read access to generate the file names.
so yes, for example you could use a salt.
 
@lynks But let's say he didn't use a random salt (or generate a random string for the uploaded file name). Wouldn't I be able to know the name of my executable file on the server?
I could just hash the file name
 
@AndyMac you would rename when downloading
 
>the file names should not be calculable without database access
>as long as you require database read access to generate the file names
 
@Gilles gotcha
 
@lynks How would you propose doing that?
 
2:16 PM
@Adnan Point of interest. Nessus stores it's scan results as a series of 4 files. The results in their xml v1 schema, results in xml v2 schema, a file containing the scan name, and some file that I don't know what it does. The difference between them is file extension and each one is a shitload of hex characters. I don't know how it's generated.
 
@lynks not necessarily, it can be useful in a belt-and-braces sense, but if the attacker can request a directory listing, something is already wrong somewhere
 
@Adnan So Tenable has decided to do exactly what you're recommending against. :)
 
@Gilles sure, but it also has the side effect of never overwriting files, which could be desirable.
 
@Adnan that in itself isn't a vulnerability (but it can make some exploits easier)
@lynks sorry, what does?
 
@lynks But wouldn't be a much better idea to do what @Gilles suggested?
 
2:18 PM
@Gilles performing some mutation of file names before writing them to the filesystem
 
Generate a random string as a name for the file
 
@Adnan Gilles and I are suggesting exactly the same thing
 
@lynks Well, @Gilles explained it better. But alright, I get it now.
 
@Adnan I will in future be very careful to spell things out to you.
 
@lynks We've already established that a week ago.
 
2:20 PM
Well thanks for the discussion. I think I have a much better idea on how to proceed now.
 
@lynks Actually, no. If you have some patience, I'd like more explanation
You said "save the files as a hash of their upload name, store the original name in the database."
That's completely different from what @Gilles suggested
 
@Adnan that was in response to @TerryChia, I had read that he meant to do it the other way around.
@Adnan the point is, the file names should not be guessable to any user, a point I reiterated 3 times...
 
The main problem with a storage handle (that's what the filename is) derived from the file name is that it doesn't allow file name collisions, so you can tell whether someone else uploaded a file by a certain name
if each user has their own storage directory, that's not a problem
 
@Gilles which is where a salt/upload id of some kind comes in
 
@lynks Exactly!
 
2:24 PM
@Adnan "for example you could use a salt" ^^
 
@lynks Oh yes, you were right. I see it now.
 
@lynks ok, but then what's the benefit of hashing? So as to make a directory listing impossible? That seems like a specialty requirement, undesirable in most cases
 
@Gilles I have implemented it both ways in the past, sometimes hashing to get a uniform length name appeals to my neatness obsession. It also means I dont have to worry about using the stored name in sql or similar.
@Gilles but as I say I have used <original_file_name> + <random_nonce> in the past also.
 
@lynks How about generating UUIDs? That would work for uniform lengths.
 
I love using the hash of the content as filename
 
2:29 PM
 
@CodesInChaos could be a little cpu intensive on a file-sharing system, unless you needed integrity checking for some other reason.
 
hashing isn't that expensive. Even slow hashes like SHA-2 exceed 100MB/s
 
@AviD Nice - I must use that!
 
@TerryChia ultimately I would settle for something like <uploadid>_<nonce> with uploadid | nonce | name etc in the database
 
So even with gigabit internet hashing all uploads shouldn't be a problem
 
2:36 PM
1
Q: Is salting a hash really as secure as common knowledge implies?

Thomas Andreè Lian(I did search on this topic, but I found no complete question/answer that addressed it, or even portions of questions that might be relevant.) I'm implementing a salt function for user passwords on my web page, and I'm wondering about some things. A salt is an extension added to a password and ...

Reptrain. :O
#6 right now.
 
@AviD I liked that.
 
@TerryChia Oh you little..!!
@CodesInChaos If the hash matches an existing file, do you store the file again?
Because I really like this idea of not having to store the same file two times for two users
Same like what VirusTotal does. If the hash matches, it doesn't scan it again automatically.
@AviD So, I'm now drinking Laphroaig.
 
@Adnan heh, enjoying it? Or choking on it?
 
@Adnan Nice but I prefer Lagavullin
 
Yay! #2 in the monthly charts. IN YOUR FACE @Adnan.
 
2:42 PM
@AviD @Poly
 
@AviD Actually, I really like it
 
@Adnan I... am having trouble parsing that.
 
good eve friends
 
@Adnan whatup?
 
2:44 PM
@Polynomial I thought you had something dirty to say about that
@vignesh4303 Good evening, sir.
 
ah
bit slow today
 
@TerryChia It's not a competition.
 
@Adnan ge :) i liked your profile smile/sad program :)
 
@AndyMac It's 14 euros more.
 
@Adnan It takes me months to get through a bottle so it's worth it
 
2:45 PM
@Adnan said the man losing the competition ;op
 
@vignesh4303 Thanks. Everybody seems to like it
 
@Adnan Dammit. You mean I have been staring at my rep for the past 24 hours for nothing? :(
 
@AndyMac Gee! Non-alcoholic much!
@RoryMcCune I said the same when I was #2
Or something similar, I don't remember
 
True - few beers but don't hit the whisky much / it kills me!
a small tipple now and then is fine
 
@TerryChia Okay okay. Oh noooo! You beat this time, Chia! Next time I'll get you, next time!
 
2:47 PM
@Adnan when you say similar was it more like "in your face @TerryChia Luser"?
 
@Adnan That's more like it!
 
@RoryMcCune Something like "Meh, it's not a competition"
 
@RoryAlsop friend i have few queries on one of your answer,are you free now so can we discuss it?
2
Q: Is it safe to allow users multiple login at different browsers & computers?

vignesh4303We are currently developing a web application. The developers have allowed multiple login. e.g an user can log-in to multiple computers at the same time. They are quoting Gmail account as an example of allowing multiple access. We have secured our web application similar to here. Does allowing ...

 
@AndyMac So it's not normal to drink a finger or two every couple of days?
 
@Adnan Not for me!
@Adnan What has you on the Laphroaig - what were you on before that?
 
2:50 PM
@AndyMac I have some thinking to do.
 
@Adnan buddy i have seen your comment for rory's answer i have some queries on it friend
There are tree ways to handle this A- New sessions will invalidate the old ones. The attacker can override the user's session. B- Prevent a new login unless the user logs out out from the last session. "Oh, I logged in from home last night, now I cannot use the website on my mobile. C- Killing the session after some time. "Remember me" option doesn't make sense anymore. I believe in this matter the default should be allow, unless your service doesn't need multiple login (like a bank).
 
@AndyMac Glenlivet, Highland Park, Chivas
 
@Adnan friend if you are free we can discuss on it
 
i'd recommend Talisker as well
 
@vignesh4303 Let me tell you something to make things easier for you.
 
2:51 PM
hmm sure
 
it's peaty - not as peaty as the Islays but it's very good
 
@Adnan That sounds pretty stange. I like mango and kiiwi, and i like cocktails that involve them, but i've never heard of wine from them...
 
@vignesh4303 I recommend just asking what you want, and leave it. Someone (maybe me, maybe Rory, maybe someone else) will answer you.
Then you'd respond, then a discussion is opened
@vignesh4303 I know you think that waiting before asking is polite, I understand that. But it's so annoying here.
 
got it thanks for response, i ll list out my queries and get back here ,thanks for the advice :)
@Adnan
 
@vignesh4303 I think @Adnan means ask the question here, not necessarily on the site
 
2:53 PM
@D3C4FF Correct.
 
There's a dozen people here at the moment and everyone will likely see it, if anyone can/wants to answer, they will @vignesh4303
 
got it :)
 
@D3C4FF That's the whole idea. There are many fruits and vegetables that aren't made into wine, and I really like making wines that aren't usually made (not hipsterish).
 
sorry due to my anxiety i pinged them i ll avoid it in future
:)
 
Wonder if I can repcap today.
 
2:55 PM
@TerryChia I hope you do
 
@vignesh4303 You can ping them all you want. Just ask the question, don't wait till they reply you.
In fact, <knockknock> @Rory <knockknock> @Rory <knockknock> @Rory
 
@TerryChia hmm yeah got it i love this site and daily i read the transcript chat msgs
 
@D3C4FF I'm getting ready for making a batch of carrot wine. I'm very excited about it, by the way.
@TerryChia Shit! He read the transcript everyday! :O
 
especially discussions b/w polynomial ,terry,thomas,rory were intresting i am fan of them :)
 
@Adnan His sanity, not mine.
 
2:57 PM
@AndyMac yup that's my top 3, or at least what I have now - Laphroige, Lagavulin (cask), and Talisker.
oh damn, finished the talisker last week, I forgot :-(
 
lol @Adnan even i bookmark it ,fun and security discussions here :)
 
@Adnan you should share some results when you do, i'd be curious to see how that turns out...
 
it's very similar to the islays, compared to just about any other region. I bit lighter, a bit saltier (is that the word I mean?), but its a nice fit.
 
@AviD i've only lagavullin and talisker at the moment - must get a bottle of old pultenay too tho' / nice and a little salty
 
@vignesh4303 @Adnan @Polynomial @TerryChia @ThomasPornin @RoryMcCune @RoryAlsop Ya' hear that? Stalky stalky! :D
 
2:59 PM
@RoryAlsop What did you use to generate QR codes with the MetalTech logos & stuff in the middle?
 
@AndyMac hmm, thats a new one for me.
 
@D3C4FF Here's the Red-grape-mango-kiiwi that is currently fermenting.
 
does look expensive, though.
 
@Adnan That looks nice.
 
I'll have to try it sometime.
 
3:01 PM
@AviD it's worth a try / it's the favourite of a friend of mine who really likes his whiskys
 
@Adnan I'd hit that!
Looks tastay as! :D
 
@D3C4FF i m fan of polynomial
if possible i ll get an autograph from him
 
@Adnan looks lovely - is that sediment at the bottom?
 
@Polynomial (just so you're reading this as well, read up) (don't let your head(s) explode now)
 
@Polynomial See.. he likes you.. hardcore!
 
3:03 PM
lolwat
2
 
@AndyMac Yup, bits of the fruit and yeast.
 
@Adnan lol doesnt meant that "hardcore" :P
 
@AndyMac It's still in the making process.
 
@Adnan how long does it take to ferment?
 
@Polynomial He edited it
 
3:04 PM
@Polynomial is it you on the photo starred here by rory mccune?
 
@Adnan you'll have to explain in detail how you do it, i'd like to give it a crack at home...
 
@D3C4FF +1
 
@vignesh4303 Indeed it is
 
@Polynomial RUN AWAYYYYY!
 
om nyom nom donut
 
3:05 PM
@AndyMac 1-2 weeks first stage, then 4-5 months in the second stage (current one), then 4-5 more months in the bottle.
Then it's read to drink
 
@TerryChia rgr
 
@Polynomial wow can i download it and keep it as my wallpaper with ur permission
2
 
@Polynomial you's one class-ay lookin' d00d
 
@Adnan it's not quick then! I'm sure it's worth it though.... must have a go
 
3:05 PM
@D3C4FF Sure, tomorrow is a holiday, I can't write a big message and ping you and @AndyMac
 
@vignesh4303 Wow....
 
@Adnan awesome, that'll break up the monotony of automated vulnerability scanning
 
@Adnan awesome!
 
@vignesh4303 Duuuude! That's.. ummm
 
@Adnan I think the word you're looking for is.... AWESOME
LETS ALL SET OUT WALLPAPERS TO @Polynomial EATING DOUGHNUTS!
3
 
3:07 PM
@D3C4FF Ha!
 
@Adnan thats ummmmmmmmm?
 
@D3C4FF I'd say.. creepy.
 
lol'd
 
@Adnan Not sexay? Kinkeh?
 
@D3C4FF Not at all.
 
3:08 PM
@Adnan Oh son. Am disappoint
 
@TerryChia Well, you can make very young wines. 1-2 months.
 
@vignesh4303 you didn't happen to go by the name "m4tr1x" at any point did you?
@D3C4FF That guy's neck is a work of art.
 
0
Q: Using JTR to crack Skype Passwords

BSpirosThe scenario: coworker's Skype somehow lost his auto-fill password. He doesn't remember it anymore, and the account is hooked up to an email address that no longer exists. He's never purchased any credits so he can't use a CC to verify his account to customer service. I know that Skype should ha...

 
I know right. That'd make grappling practice a cinch...
 
3:08 PM
he is literally shaped like a beer bottle
 
Are skype passwords really stored locally?...
 
@D3C4FF It happened one time to me, that's why I understand how bad it is.
 
@D3C4FF Looks like a stretched simon cowell
 
@Polynomial actually that picture of you's been pinned a while, I'll remove it
user image
7
 
Of course, @Polynomial is lucky that they don't live in the same country
 
3:09 PM
@Polynomial If i had photoshop on this PC
 
is better anyway :P
 
@RoryMcCune hahaha]
bastard
;D
 
@RoryMcCune HAHAHAHA!
 
It's true, though.
 
so polynomial is @guberland?
 
3:09 PM
@Polynomial lol
 
@RoryMcCune thanks for the pic any collection of him?
 
@AndyMac That was my first thought.
 
@vignesh4303 :O JESUS!
 
@AndyMac Yes.
 
@vignesh4303 That's.... really creepy dude.
 
3:10 PM
aha
 
@vignesh4303 Kinda creepy :|
 
Am I the only one reading that?
 
Yay capped!
 
@Polynomial twitter cross referencing so
 
@vignesh4303 Are you a guy or a girl?
 
3:10 PM
hehe
 
its not creepy, if we love footbal players we keep them as their wallpapers ,likewise i am fan of him @TerryChia
 
@Adnan With a name like "Vignesh", I'd guess guy.
 
i am a guy buddy
 
Maybe its just the cider. Maybe its the fact that its well past my bedtime. Or maybe its the several coffee's i've had today keeping me awake. But this is pretty lulzy
 
@Adnan
 
3:11 PM
@D3C4FF *nods*
 
@TerryChia Congrats!
 
Can we do a one-on-one skype interview with @vignesh4303 and @Polynomial and up the recording to youtube? :D
 
@TerryChia So now they're 6
 
No.
 
3:12 PM
@Polynomial Yes please!
 
I keep my skype account personal.
 
@vignesh4303 Can you please put the mention in the same message?
 
@Polynomial But to a true and loyal fan like @vignesh4303 surely you could disclose it!
 
@D3C4FF NEVAR!
 
@Polynomial Well, this seems like a very personal matter to me
 
3:13 PM
I feel like I'm witnessing something beautiful
 
@D3C4FF i will find it out soon :)
 
@Polynomial Do you have any pictures of you that are less clothed?
 
@AndyMac Everybody says that to me
 
@Polynomial y'know.... for personal use?
 
@D3C4FF As a matter of fact yes, I do.
 
3:13 PM
I'm happily engaged to a lady friend, thank you.
 
@Polynomial Have you read that?!
"i will find it out soon :)"
 
@Adnan Uhh that was supposed to be @Polynomial not at you @Adnan sorry :P I just like your wine pictures
 
@Adnan Yes.
I still don't tell people from Norway my age. Norwegians are not to be trusted with annual increments.
My policy.
 
@Adnan oops buddy just an adorable fan of him, thats it
 
You know what I like, his complete disconnection. He's honestly unaware of it.
I don't know if it is cultural differences or something else, but it's every interesting
 
3:15 PM
oops @RoryMcCune google cant find similar images for polynomial :(
 
@Adnan You're talking about your strange wine right?
 
@Polynomial Especially the girls, they reach 20 in about 14 years, then they stop there for 10-15 years, then suddenly they're 35, and they stop there for 10 more years.
@D3C4FF I'm talking about this guy.
 
@Polynomial Afraid they might overflow some value somewhere when they find out your actually a warlock?
oi, @TildalWave when you wake up, read up.
 
best of polynomial answer
201
A: How to store salt?

PolynomialTL;DR - You can store the salt in plaintext without any form of obfuscation or encryption, but don't just give it out to anyone who wants it. The reason we use salts is to stop precomputation attacks, such as rainbow tables. These attacks involve creating a database of hashes and their plainte...

 
In the words of 'Jeff Wu'
"FANTASTIC ANSWER"
 
3:18 PM
and in question
88
Q: We're no strangers to code golf, you know the rules, and so do I

PolynomialWrite the shortest program that prints the entire lyrics of "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley. Rules: Must output the lyrics exactly as they appear in the above pastebin. Here's the raw dump: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wwvdjvEj Cannot rely on any external resources - all lyrics must ...

 
@D3C4FF I am a warlock.
 
@D3C4FF agreed but he explains concept clearly,noobs in security like me learning lot from his answers
 
@Polynomial Sounds like a dirty British word
 
@Polynomial WE Know that already though
 
3:19 PM
@Adnan Crumpets!
 
@Polynomial Oh my! gasps
 
@vignesh4303 Nice about.me profile
 
@Adnan thanks friend :)
 
With that, it's time to go.
Later, everybody.
 
thanks for wonderfull time here
 
3:24 PM
@vignesh4303 That's actually an awesome question. I liked the answer by @walpen
 
@RoryMcCune if u have any collection of @Polynomial pls attach here,i need it for my teacher's photo album
 
@Adnan @vignesh4303 @Polynomial @TerryChia its been a hilarious evening. The cider has finally counteracted the coffee, NIGHT!
 
@TerryChia yup 26k views in 3days
 
@vignesh4303 I would advise you to stop. A few of us are getting creeped out over it and coming from the people in here.... that's saying a lot.
 
@TerryChia (I'm not!)
 
3:26 PM
@TerryChia may i ask you one question friend?
whom's your role model?
if you got an chance to speak about your role model and got rare collection of your role model would you waste the chance
ignore my anxiety,apologies
sorry if my comments hurted anyone :(
 
3:42 PM
@Adnan If it's already there, no reason to store it again
Though deduplication across users has some security issue, in particular "confirmation of storage" and "learning the remaining information".
So depending on the requirements this form of hashing is sometimes not appropriate
 
will java let me autobox an int to an Object?
it turns out yes
 
4:22 PM
@lynks iirc the Java spec allows anything to be boxed into an Object
apart from JNI unmanaged stuff
though even then you can probably get around that
 
Evening - just perused the transcript and... Weird afternoon you guys have had
 
@Polynomial yep, it makes sense when you look at String.format(String pattern, Object... args)
@Polynomial which is happy to accept int and such
 
@vignesh - you may wish to take a deeper review of the transcript to see what sort of behaviours are commonly accepted. Different cultures can take things in very different ways.
 
5:05 PM
Whaddup gramps?
 
5:20 PM
home time o/
 
5:49 PM
@RoryAlsop not sure that will be explicit enough....
btw @RoryAlsop @Jefff - if you've seen the flags - I am of two minds regarding that user (its the same one). All his answers are borderline, obviously attempts at self-marketing (he is a vendor, of PCI consulting I think). But so far nothing really blatant, still within bounds. Barely.
 
Burninate him.
 
hehe, I have to get Ace Ventura for my kids...
 
6:25 PM
@AviD definitely
 
@RoryAlsop in case it wasnt obvious, I was referring to securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/49941636135/…
 
@Iszi - we did it for one Edinburgh Festival - had them printed as stickers, which we then went round and stuck on everybody's event posters
@AviD hahahahaha - brilliant
 
@AviD Nemesis? I can't argue with that because I'll only end up proving your point, won't I?! Nice, now all I can say is that you're one lovely lad, you leave me no other option :P
 
@TildalWave Damn you! I tried provoking an argument, and you blocked me! argblocker! FOILED AGAIN!!
 
@AviD I think the most recent one fails to answer the question
 
6:34 PM
@D3C4FF Sorry I don't have any nude photos of @Poly, but one mate of mine could easily pose as his double if that's acceptable ;)
 
@RoryAlsop really? I think that one is closer-ish. Q:"Is compliance a problem with this?" A:"Yes it is, because you cant prove compliance"...
 
ahh - wrong way round then, sorry. The answer I just deleted, I think is bad
the other one I think is okay
despite them both being flagged
I mean it's an average answer, but your comment on it helps
 
yeah. I think they're both hovering around the border, one is just barely over the other side, this one is just over on this side.
 
this one will just get downvoted
heh
 
@RoryAlsop does it? it was intended for @AJ, not really relevant to the answer, just nitpicking...
 
6:37 PM
@AviD I know :-)
 
@RoryAlsop GAWD! it's like we're a married couple. Stop it! ;-)
 
@AviD hahaha - right. Time to retrieve eldest from parkour and then feed my hungry rabble. Later all.
 
good night friend.
@RoryAlsop
@RoryAlsop I would like to discuss with you something you wrote last year.
@RoryAlsop do you have pictures of your kids to post here publicly?
I will use them as a desktop.
I am a fan.
oh lordy, I should stop. Too much? :D
 
6:59 PM
Got me a new Gravatar now. Thx @RoryAlsop. Now I don't look all generic. Still needs some tweaking though.
 

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