The Whiteboard - 2013-03-28

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user55340

12:22 AM

Why do we now get some two dozen first post reviews of things a week old? Its one of those "ok, this does need to get cleaned up - I don't feel like I should be clicking "no action" - but its a week old and I loath to bounce it"

@MichaelT Bug.

Fixed, and should be deployed shortly.

10

Q: First Posts review queue is not showing first questions

I noticed that the First Posts review queue on Home Improvement is no longer showing questions. The most recent first question that showed up in the queue was asked at 16:05UTC on March 19th. The next most recent first question was asked at 19:27UTC on the same day. It is still showing answers,...

bug status-completed review

user55340

Ok... just wondering.

@MichaelT Good eye, it seems it's been going on for a week and everyone but you and Niall C. missed it.

user55340

As an aside, its been a bit since I touched raw C on my mac... egads, xcode is beautiful. I just wish I could get disassembles easier.

user55340

I normally don't touch that queue... it has 1 or 2 in it and its a "someone else can get those or its an audit waiting to trap me"... but when it was (I think) 34... that was "hmm, I need to do something about that size."

12:32 AM

I avoid all queues except the suggested edits one. The review queues are nice, but aren't really mod friendly, very little context for unilateral decisions and mod actions don't count as review actions. Also, I prefer to find stuff to moderate through flags or by accident when browsing the site, browsing the pending delete votes once a week is enough to satisfy my bloodlust.

@MichaelT yeah the queues seem to be getting huge lately!

@YannisRizos maybe another result from enhanced participation?

but that wouldn't make sense because close votes take 3k rep

1 hour later…

2:01 AM

Ever wonder where atwood and spolsky got the gaul to think they could make something like SO? Two industry smart guys who know full well how often people try making social software and fail miserably, and both of them got it into their heads that they could pull it off, they just had to do a couple things right or something... I wonder how much if SO's success is related to atwood and spolsky already having a following vs. how much is related to the quality of their product

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Fire and Motion

user20683

they didn't care about hype. They pushed for quality

user20683

there's also luck involved

I get that, but the point of the fire and motion blog was more about spaghetti testing approach

user20683

I'm just gonna call it magic and enjoy it

user20683

2:03 AM

:D

haha

user20683

and be thankful that the headache I had is gone

user20683

so I can work

I'm just pointing out the balls they had to have to be knowledgeable enough to know their chances were a million to one and still think "Yeah, we can do that."

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I think Atwood said "yeah I can do that" and Spolsky said "yeah I can sell that (idea)"

user20683

2:04 AM

it's Wozniak and Jobs

If you read atwood's blog hinting at SO before it came out you can tell he had a certainty he would pull it off

haha yeah that's probably about the right way of putting it

user20683

@JimmyHoffa it's about a kind of clearheaded confidence

ah well, I guess I can somewhat relate, in my own little corner of code I'm usually rather certain my approach is both correct and going to be more successful than any other approach when I'm solving any given problem, it just baffles me because he approached a problem of such magnitude with that same confidence

user20683

stuff your doubts in a closet and then put them on display later in your mansion to make your success seem that much more awesome

user20683

It's very much Wall's hubris

2:07 AM

shit, if I ever own a mansion I'm doing one thing to it, burning it down; a mansion on fire as movies have time and time again proven is awesome.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa build a scale model and then light in on fire

user20683

way cheaper and if you use the techniques ILM uses it looks just the same

the only scale models worth building, are two times the scale!

user20683

@JimmyHoffa youtube.com/watch?v=Et4sMJP9FmM

user20683

relevant to both the 2x thing and I see Atwood as kind of a Haddon

2:59 AM

@Jimmy Hoffa and @World Engineer: Any predictions on the fate of Discourse.org? Personally, I still don't get it. It seems like Jeff Atwood is all caught up in the Open Source community and forking his code that he's forgotten about making a product that people actually want. // Although I could be wrong. And I should say that I am forever grateful for the contribution he made with StackOverflow.

user20683

@JimG. people say it will be the death of us. I don't think so.

@World Engineer: Right. I just don't see it. I don't see how users will be able to find interesting content easily.

user20683

@JimG. it reminds me of diaspora in a way

@World Engineer: And how does Discourse.org content play nicely with Google? Jeff Atwood must realize the hugely important role that Google played in StackOverflow's success.

@World Engineer: Right. That's a good comparison. // And I think that Atwood has already accepted venture capital, which means that they'll be breathing down his neck, looking to get a return on their investment.

@World Engineer: I distinctly remember how I felt when StackOverflow was an infant. I thought it was awesome. // With Discourse.org, I'm seeing a "second-system" syndrome, and I fail to see what will draw in users. // Of course, I could be wrong; and mind you that I've never personally built anything that approximates a mere fraction of StackOverflow.

user20683

@JimG. it's WoW vs EVE or something

user20683

3:08 AM

you don't need that many users to have a critical mass really

user20683

but yeah, I worry about the noise

Atwood accepted VC for Discourse?

Oof. If the idea itself wasn't going to be the death of it, that will..

user55340

The place discourse will fit is the existing spot where forums are now. Its a reasonable fit.

@MichaelT: I agree with Atwood that vBulletin leaves a lot to be desired.

@MichaelT: Maybe I'm missing something. I'd like to be wrong on this one because I have tremendous respect for Atwood and his opinions.

I won't say as far as forums go it's not unpleasant, but forums are completely unaffected by the quality of their content. Bad content doesn't drive forum traffic down, so creating a forum to explicitly draw in good content won't drive forum traffic up

I like the interface

I just don't think it will matter because forums as a concept don't matter

and it's still a forum

3:14 AM

@Jimmy Hoffa: " I'm proud to announce that we have initial venture capital funding from First Round, Greylock, and SV Angel. We're embarking on a five year mission to improve the fabric of the Internet, and we're just getting started. Let a million discussions bloom!"

codinghorror.com/blog/2013/02/…

also, forums are the last place VC money should be looking, they don't generate anything, especially not when they're just an open source technology

if it was a closed site platform there's be some room for monetizing, but as an open source piece of software... that's money in the wind

@Jimmy Hoffa: A terrific point. It's almost like he's solving the wrong problem. // I don't know. Maybe part of me wishes that he stuck with StackOverflow, or perhaps chose a different problem to solve. He's so talented, he could do many things.

user55340

Atwood is an individual who has shown the ability to turn what was formerly a forum into something that makes money. VC doesn't mind betting on a horse that won a race before.

though I've heard it's not uncommon for angel investors to invest specifically just to get their hands on talented engineers, and throwing money at atwood is definitely a way to do that, because while he's his own person; he will definitely attract the best talent out there

@MichaelT and @Jimmy Hoffa: Both excellent points.

3:18 AM

@MichaelT yeah and I fear that's exactly the reason for the vc money, hopefully Atwood will prove me wrong and turn everything on it's head again, but everything points to the opposite

user55340

It doesn't bother them to have 9 out of 10 fail if the one that doesn't fail pays out 20x. And in the mean time, they've got 9 leads on maybe the next one that will pay out 20x.

Hopefully the VC money is just trying to make inroads with good engineers for them to use on future projects

@MichaelT yeah, I just feel bad for Atwood being in that position because while it doesn't bother them to have 9 out of 10 fail, they bother those 9 out of 10 actively

user55340

When I was between jobs in the boom days of SV, one place I interviewed at was making startups with the intent of the startup getting bought - they had a core team of engineers that would move from one to the next.

@Jimmy Hoffa: Right. And these are years of his life that he's spending on something that people don't really care about.

@MichaelT: Yep. Good point. I've seen that too.

user55340

I think you over estimate the ego hit to a visionary when it doesn't pan out. I had a manager who was one such... something doesn't work, she would shrug her shoulders and go on to the next idea she had. She was a manager at Apple, Netapp, a researcher for a VC and now owns a contracting company... This completely skips over everything that didn't work well and the projects at the companies that were cancelled or never saw the light of day.

user55340

3:23 AM

However, when she had an idea and had her engineers go do it... things got done.

user55340

google.com/patents/…

user55340

Note the name of the inventors... one of the ideas that found the light of the day.

@MichaelT I would love to get my name on a patent some day, perhaps one day

if nothing else I'll do it when I'm like 65 with the stupidest thing in the world just to make sure I get one done

was jealous, I worked at a microsoft office once and literally every office had piles of these granite cubes they would give you for getting something patented

Jeff, the work you've done with StackOverflow is amazing. That's why I'm a little surprised at this latest effort. It's quite ... underwhelming.

The three biggest problems with forums:
1) Information overload.
2) Ugly.
3) Difficult to find what you're looking for.

As far as I can tell Discourse has done nothing to address any of these problems.

Pinterest has been such a success because it solved all three of these issues for images. If Discourse is going to as revolutionary as you talk, then it will also have to address these issues. Right now, I see it as pretty much the same as everyth…

every engineer there of like 80 engineers had at least 3, and a hand full had 15+

(or so were the appearances, I'm sure a few engineers didn't have any, like me)

user55340

3:31 AM

It was a matter of her saying she wanted something, and me (the coder), Philippa (knowledge base / requirements) and Doug (Graphics / UI) thinking about how to do it... and doing it. In the mean time, she shielded us and let us do it without interference from others.

good managers/business people are hard to find in this industry, but make all the difference in the world if you have them

user55340

Indeed. I've had very few that I consider good.

user20683

3:52 AM

@JimG. discourse.org/buy

user20683

this is how he's gonna make money

user20683

open source it may be but it looks like he aims at being a forum engine for other companies too

it's open source, he won't make money off services when hosts will set you up for just the cost of hosting

user20683

@JimmyHoffa true

user20683

hard to say

6:05 AM

Stupid insomnia. Who invented that shit, what a jerk.

4 hours later…

9:37 AM

any curated/bookmarked URIs on burn out/extreme exhaustion?

3 hours later…

12:29 PM

Mar 20 at 14:38, by gnat

@JimmyHoffa I didn't complain, merely checked whether these are worthy of studying DVed posts (most of non-serial DVs I've got so far were pretty useful)

heh, upvotes can be useful, too. One of today's upvotes has been to my own link-only answer, with link gone... surprise! 404 not found, to the blatant GTKY question

1:21 PM

@JimG. Those problems are real, if you're going to a forum for information. (Why would you? Come to Stack Exchange instead!) I go to forums for community. (Notably, I go to h2g2, which is a site with a set of forums and articles, and a vibrant community.)

user55340

@WorldEngineer that Eclipse pallets question was multiply posted.

user20683

@MichaelT I dealt with it

user20683

migrate to SO, flag as dupe

user20683

@MichaelT incidently any thoughts on PostgreSQL?

user20683

been thinking about making it my SQL of choice

user20683

1:30 PM

that or SQL Server, maybe both

user55340

I haven't personally had any projects that have made use of it, but its more of a convenience of mysql being right there. If there are requirements other than convenience and the decision on the database hasn't been made, I would certainly consider it and might rank it higher tham mysql.

2:01 PM

@TRiG: Right on. I agree with you. FWIW: That copy-paste was from codinghorror.com.

2:25 PM

@WorldEngineer I've heard lots of good things about PostgreSQL having most of the abilities of a real enterprise RDBMS, where MySQL in my opinion falls short. My suggestion: Stick with MS SQL Server for any personal use so that you learn all the advanced techniques you can do in DBs, then use Postgre in real world open source projects. MSSQL allows you to do all of the cutting edge advanced things possible in DBs, which are great things to know.

On the other hand, is PostgreSQL has all those same advanced techniques available to it, then there's not a lot of reason to bother with SQL Server

I wonder how it's tooling is, how easy it is to see an execution plan, profile, trace, etc

user55340

Hmm... IPoDE.SE based on xkcd...

user55340

For smaller numbers he has to SAVE lives. The birthrate channel is even more of a mixed bag.

haha

user55340

"The header of the next packet will be encoded into the number of 'post this on Programmers.SE' comments on Stack Overflow" -- we are messing up someone's packets when we flag those comments.

2:41 PM

@WorldEngineer just doing a cursory look now, and on features it looks like pretty much a wash. So you're probably just as well using either for practice and since they're both very standards compliant in syntax the transition from one to the other would likely be easy as pie. So I'd plan Postgre for any real projects where you might go public, and for playing choose whichever one has better tooling to get you moving and learning (I know nothing about Postgre tooling so no idea which has better)

user55340

> (I know nothing about Postgre tooling so no idea which has better)

user55340

This is where mysql's convenience of tooling tends to lead people down that path.

mysql has good tooling?

> PostgreSQL doesn’t have true stored procedures with autonomous transactions.

eek, what?

With all the features Postgre does have from my reading, I'm surprised it's missing such a basic one

user55340

The ease of getting an odbc connector for it to play nicely in excel, mysql workbench, a number of different free database clients that have that as the default...

user55340

Things like "I installed mysql to get the static data dump for EVE and saw no reason to install another free database"

2:46 PM

Aye. If people weren't so anti-MS there'd be a lot more of those one-off scenarios like that using SQL Server Express

at philips we distributed it with our product and 95% of our clients ran their entire business off it, only a rare few had enough data that they would run out the 2gb limit

Postgre has no nested transactions either, it makes claims of "save points" but I'm not figuring a "save point" gives you the isolation scope a transaction gives you

no autonomous transactions.. that's just weird. @MichaelT does MySQL have standard transactions?

user55340

It has some semblance of transactions... I'm not sure what the 'standard' modifier on it implies.

user55340

dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/commit.html

user55340

dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/ansi-diff-transactions.html

user55340

3:15 PM

subtle lurking bug (c version)-- (i++ | j++) vs (i++ || j++) -- initial values of i and j: 1. What is the value of j in each case?

3:35 PM

@ThomasOwens I guess you are around since you dealt with my flag that has been submitted about 20 minutes ago. 2-3 minutes ago i submitted a flag with garbage message instead of raising concern about the link-only answer - sorry for inconvenience

3:46 PM

@MichaelT I'm guessing in one case you're expecting j to become 4 from (2 | 1 == 3)++ but I don't know the C associativity rules to know what sequence any of those things are actually happening to it

In my book I don't understand how j is going to get a value assigned to it without j = something, other than the ++ operator which is a special case of in-place destructive operators

in C are bitwise operators also in-place destructive?

user55340

4:00 PM

@JimmyHoffa The key is in short circuiting. The logical || short circuits, but the bitwise | doesn't .

user55340

So the first one j is 2, the second one j is 1.

Oh because in C 2 == true ?

or does the short circuit occur before the ++ operation?

Yeah, that is a subtle bastard of a bug, though I should guess that a C programmer knows the associativity and precedence rules well enough to recognize that bug pretty quick

Then again maybe I only say that because I practically never see bitwise operations living in C#, where C developers see bitwise or often enough that it all kind of blends together as opposed to sticking out like it does for me..

user55340

In C, 0 is false, all else is true. The short cut happens before the postincrement.

I know 0 is false, I presumed 1 is true and everything else is false as well

user55340

I've seen that hiding in java from some vendor code... this huge if expression with && and || all over the place, then just a single | in one spot.

user55340

4:09 PM

That caused a function with a side effect to be executed unconditionally.

I would have definitely not expected the postincrement to occur after the shortcircuit though, that seems really strange to me

haha yeah, bitwise operators are very dangerous in the hands of java/C# developers, and that's when they use them on purpose, more less typos like that heh

user55340

Post increment doesn't occur... so (i++ || ...) - only the i++ is evaluated, and if i is true before the evaluation, then it continues on without evaluating the rest of the expression.

@MichaelT but you're saying the actual execution precedence is (i || ..)++

which seems very weird to me

I would expect ((i++) || ..)

user55340

i evaluated (1, its true), i++ evaluated (i is 2), || evaluated, i is true, enter expression is true.

user55340

I might have the ++ and || flipped, but it doesn't matter if I do in this case, the end result would be the same.

user55340

4:14 PM

Actually, to make it easier... (i || j++) vs (i | j++) -- forget about i++.

i = 0, j = 0;
(i++ || j++)

this would then leave both of them as 0 because the shortcircuit just tosses them both out and then doesn't execute the postincrement

according to what you're claiming of the precedence rules

however if the precedence puts the ++ before the ||, i would become 1 and j is still 0

user55340

if they are both 0, they end up as both 1 afterwards. Because j++ is evaluated.

the shortcircuit works like javascripts then

but they wouldn't both be 1, only j would yes?

user55340

But
i = 1; j = 1
(i || j++) --> j = 1
(i | j++) --> j = 2

user55340

In the code that I had instead of 'j++', there was a function that returned a boolean and had a side effect. Precedence rules didn't even come into play.

4:19 PM

aye

though this is kind of an interesting case of precedence rules..

i = 1; j = 1;
n = (i++ | j++)

is n = (((i++)|)j)++
or n = (i++)|(j++)
or n = ((i | j)++)++
or?

user55340

It might be one of these undefined / compiler dependent spots.

first one is 4, second one is 2, third one is 3

No way, that has to be defined, people do bitwise operations in C wayyy too much for precedence rules on things like that to be undefined

user55340

I believe that n = 1, i = 2, and j = 2 after evaluation.

I'm wagering they're all 2 after evaluation (the second formulation of precedence I specified)

It just seems like a POLA if ++ isn't the highest precedence

user55340

user@myip:~/foo> cat bar.c
#include <stdio.h>

int main() {
	int i = 1;
	int j = 1;
	int n = (i++|j++);
	printf("%d %d %d\n",i,j,n);
	return 0;
}
user@myip:~/foo> make bar
cc     bar.c   -o bar
user@myip:~/foo> ./bar
2 2 1

4:26 PM

how did it get 1? lol none of the precedence formulations I came up with would result in 1..

user55340

n = (1 | 1)

the postincrement is just downright not done

user55340

It is done, after (1 | 1) is evaluated.

then you would get 2

user55340

i and j are then both postincremented and become 2.

4:28 PM

OH right

because it's not ++i

gotcha

so the bitwise or is highest precedence basically

C is weird... heh

user55340

And the flip side of that bug with the short circuting...

user55340

user@myip:~/foo> cat bar.c
#include <stdio.h>

int main() {
	int i = 1;
	int j = 1;
	int n = (i++||j++);
	printf("%d %d %d\n",i,j,n);
	return 0;
}
user@myip:~/foo> make bar
cc     bar.c   -o bar
user@myip:~/foo> ./bar
2 1 1

because conditional or is also higher precedence than ++

user55340

Did you see my analysis of that crazy math instead of the if block?

Basically ++ is of low precedence in C. Man it's a good thing i don't write C

No?

user55340

4:32 PM

++ is high precedence, just a matter of if it runs at all. swansontec.com/sopc.html

user55340

-1

Q: Boolean-Integer Typecasting to Replace Conditional

When choosing a value based off of 2 boolean values in this format var foo:int; if (X){ foo = 50; } else if (Y){ foo = -50; } else { foo = 0; } I discovered that I can condense this down by typecasting the boolean operations to integers, and mathing it up a bit like so: var foo:...

readability data-types conditions type-casting

++ is lower precedence than || and |

so what is ++ higher precedence than?

Ohh I bet...

user55340

() is higher than i++ is higher than ++i is higher than ||

they made it lower precedence so you could do things like SomeProcedure(blaaa)++ and it doesn't try postincrementing before execution

Nonsense. You just proved that it executes the || and then the ++

therefore || is higher precedence

user55340

Consider: foo ? bar++ : qux++
the ?: is rather low precedence.
But bar++ and qux++ are both not executed.

4:36 PM

Maybe we're referring to low and high in reverse of eachother; in my book higher precedence get's executed first

?: is very high precedence, you wouldn't ever want the if and else to both be executed and then return one or the other based on ?:

user55340

4

Q: PHP : Difference between "&&" and "and" : Operator precedence and short circuiting

I was going through operator precedence section of php.net and came across this example which says $a = 1; $b = null; $c = isset($a) && isset($b); $d = ( isset($a) and isset($b) ); $e = isset($a) and isset($b); var_dump($a, $b, $c, $d, $e); //Result: int(1) NULL bool(false) bool(false) &...

php operator-precedence short-circuiting explain

user55340

(thats not quite it...)

There was an old post on Programmers about choosing between a job or more education. I can't find it with searches so am assuming it has been deleted. Would anyone happen to have the link to that?

user55340

Ahh, its about sequence points...

user55340

9

A: Short circuit evaluation and side effects

Is it guaranteed that subsequent comparisons (c == SOMETHING in this example) uses value set by canInitWithSomeValue(&c)? Yes. Because there is a sequence point Between evaluation of the left and right operands of the && (logical AND), || (logical OR), and comma operators. F...

4:42 PM

@MichaelT if I understand that correctly...
i = 0, j = 1;
(i++ || j++)
i == 1;
j == 1;

user55340

j = 2.

Did you test it?

user55340

user@myip:~/foo> cat bar.c
#include <stdio.h>

int main() {
	int i = 0;
	int j = 1;
	int n = (i++||j++);
	printf("%d %d %d\n",i,j,n);
	return 0;
}
user@myip:~/foo> make bar
cc     bar.c   -o bar
user@myip:~/foo> ./bar
1 2 1

agh, I do not understand this

> Between evaluation of the left and right operands of the && (logical AND), || (logical OR) (as part of short-circuit evaluation), and comma operators. For example, in the expression *p++ != 0 && *q++ != 0, all side effects of the sub-expression *p++ != 0 are completed before any attempt to access q.

A sequence point defines any point in a computer program's execution at which it is guaranteed that all side effects of previous evaluations will have been performed, and no side effects from subsequent evaluations have yet been performed. They are often mentioned in reference to C and C++, because the result of some expressions can depend on the order of evaluation of their subexpressions. Adding one or more sequence points is one method of ensuring a consistent result, because this restricts the possible orders of evaluation. With C++11, the most recent iteration of the C++ programming l...

user55340

Yep.

user55340

4:45 PM

I've got that up in another tab.

to me that sequence point explanation from wikipedia means it will evaluate the left subexpression, then the shortcircuit, followed by the right subexpression

user55340

Yes...

oh it did execute the left subexpression in your code

I just saw, it actually executed both

user55340

Yep.

I guess || acts as a greater than in that case

or even more strangely it executed i++ and shortcircuit said 1 || 1 and executed the right subexpression as well because of equality

I'm so glad I don't write C... I would make a terrible mess of it heh

user55340

4:52 PM

A similar bug lurked in perl for awhile - and it was an issue of "&&" precedence - that it was binding tighter than some other things (like = ). So people writing code "$foo = openfile() || die 'blah!'" would have the || bind too tight. So "and" and "or" were added that had very low precedence. And one could write "$foo = openfile() or die 'blah!'" without error.

aye

user55340

... back to the pain that is known as ruby.

C# I virtually never have to think about precedence, Iduno how they set it up but in the years I've been writing it, it's always just behaved as you would expect... just a good job from the start I guess. In haskell I find myself constantly getting snagged on $ having lowest precedence though which is annoying

user55340

Its an issue of people trying to be too clever in the code. Writing clever code is never good.

heh good luck, don't burn the house down (on accident)

5:11 PM

How do I find the recreational knitting chatroom?

Check your nearest bingo lobby a couple hours before the event starts

user55340

@TRiG something about perl awhile back... or glitches in chat.

5:39 PM

@MichaelT Ah, knit one, perl one. That suddenly makes sense.

user55340

5:53 PM

@TRiG Back in the archives starting at...

user55340

Feb 11 at 19:09, by psr

@MichaelT - You're posting in the recreational knitting chatroom again - I think you want the whiteboard.

user55340

-1

Q: Best way to clear balances between payers and payees

Say some 20 people go to a shop and everyone buys something. When it comes to paying, 5 of them pay the complete amount of 10,000$ split unequally between them. Since everyone bought different things they all owe different amounts to the payers. Now there are multiple ways the payers can clear ...

user55340

user image

user55340

6:22 PM

Looking back at the dilbert, that is very dated. No one has calculator watches anymore... we have smart phones. But we wouldn't be using the calculator, we would get out the computer and write a new app for the phone... and assuming the iphone was used, the third panel would be "Sorry, we're waiting for Apple to approve our submission"

user55340

okey, I will read it — joza jozic 3 mins ago

user55340

@YannisRizos one can only hope.

@MichaelT It's a shame because the question isn't that bad, and he would have gotten an answer in minutes on SO and perhaps even a couple of upvotes.

user55340

Btw...

user55340

0

A: Native mobile app development - how do I structure my user stories?

I would suggest Jira for this to solve the issues. As answered by SuperM , it has each module as different. Since you drafted all these then, it will treat as single project as unique. Once you finish one platform then you can go for another. That will also be treated as unique one. so no duplica...

user55340

6:32 PM

That answer... I'm not sure about. I keep switching between freeform text flag, not an answer flag, and spam flag.

user55340

(freeform text won, and it wasn't an audit...)

@MichaelT First, downvote.

Then read the answer without the link at the end. It's a duplicate of an earlier answer, thus not really an answer.

So, it should be removed, even if it's not spam. Up to you if you are feeling generous enough to post a comment or not.

user55340

I blame ruby for brain.each { |neuron| neuron.melt! } or something like that.

As for the link: He also has it in his profile, which may mean he's just overenthusiastic about his gig.

It probably is spam, but if you aren't sure, you can just edit the link out and then deal with the answer normally. If it wasn't a "me too" you could have just ignored it after removing the link.

user41796

6:51 PM

@YannisRizos RE: payer question - part of the problem with that one is he didn't specify a sufficient number of constraints and then complained about not being given an answer.

user41796

Is it equivalent to rage quitting if I delete my answer on that question? I'm pretty much done with trying to help.

@GlenH7 What payer question? Also it's not rage quitting if there's no rage involved.

user41796

-2

Q: Best way to clear balances between payers and payees

Say some 20 people go to a shop and everyone buys something. When it comes to paying, 5 of them pay the complete amount of 10,000$ split unequally between them. Since everyone bought different things they all owe different amounts to the payers. Now there are multiple ways the payers can clear ...

user41796

@MichaelT - jynx

user41796

buy me a beer. 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ...

user55340

6:53 PM

Show up in Eau Claire and I certainly will.

@GlenH7 So... what's the problem there?

user41796

It's been a while since I've been up that way, but I may find an excuse to stop by. I miss parts of Milwaukee

user55340

Eau Claire is a bit further north... continue on the way to Minneapolis and you'll drive past it.

user41796

@YannisRizos - no real problem. More my annoyance from having repeatedly tried to explain (along with others) that the question wasn't sufficiently defined.

user41796

It's a homework problem, but I picked up too much whinging in the comments

user55340

6:54 PM

And then the question being eddited to include more information... and more comments and edits in the answer...

user55340

The debitors know the debt amount for each holder. I will update that in the question also. — Tushar Mathur 10 mins ago

user41796

repeat x7 times

@GlenH7 Then... stop explaining?

user41796

@YannisRizos Yes, already hit that stage. Contemplating removing "all traces" of my involvement with the question though

user55340

I'd delete the answer and leave a comment on the question that says "at this point, my answer is incomplete and incorrect given the change of the question"

user41796

6:56 PM

it's the "okay, I'm done with this. good luck."

@GlenH7 I can't tell you what to do with your answer, that's completely up to you. I wouldn't delete the clarifying comments in the question because if they are removed it's very likely someone will post exactly the same comments, but perhaps with a less polite tone.

user41796

yep, that was the right choice (deleting). I feel better. :-)

user41796

@YannisRizos d'oh. Nuked those too

user41796

So I suppose I shouldn't flag his "now you've got it!" comment as obsolete....

I killed it.

user41796

7:00 PM

Thanks! You have a good point. I should have left my comments in place as they did provide decent fencepost information to future readers

Don't worry about it.

user41796

I'm not really worried about it. It's more of an object lesson for me in not worrying about being able to be pinged off of that question versus leaving things in place that would be helpful to others. I'm great at ignoring pings so I shouldn't have worried about leaving the comments in place

user41796

And in other random news, we finally had a programming candidate come in who quite simply nailed the interview. She had done all the prep work you might expect, had a working code sample based upon a design question we screened her with, and she actually sent a thank-you letter. Such a refreshing change of pace compared to some of the other candidates we've had. Oh yeah, and she passed Fizz Buzz.

@GlenH7 Out of curiosity, did she mention SO or Programmers?

user41796

7:19 PM

@YannisRizos Nope. But that's one of our standard screening questions. I always ask for their SE ID. She had been out of the biz for about 10 years, so SO / P.SE were essentially unheard of sites to her.

@BoPersson - Hilariously, someone once had an account named Steve Jobs that was using a Bill Gates sock puppet to vote for themselves. — Brad Larson 1 hour ago

user41796

True story, I once interviewed Chuck Norris. Regrettably, he wasn't qualified for the position.

2

user41796

And for some reason, he preferred to go by Charles instead of Chuck.

7:51 PM

0

Q: How to measure team productivity?

The upper management at our company has laid out a goal for our software team to be “15% more productive” over the next year. Measuring productivity in a software development environment is very subjective, but we are still required to come up with a set of metrics. What sorts of data can we cap...

project-management productivity

^^^ Guilty pleasure. I like this question; even though it'll probably be marked as 'Not Constructive'.

If your team is held to the fire on that requirement, the biggest metric you'll notice is number of engineers that leave — Jimmy Hoffa 32 secs ago

Possible dupe:

35

Q: Metric by which to hold developers accountable

I asked a question on lines of code per hour and got torn a new one. So my matured follow-up question is this: If not lines of code, then what is a good metric by which to measure (by the hour/day/unit-of-time) the effectiveness of remote programmers?

productivity project-management efficiency metrics

8:26 PM

Not to mention:

8

Q: How can I track the work done by a remote team of coders?

I just started a project with a team of coders working remotely. I trust that they will get the job done, but I want a way to track their progress day to day. I know they are using a Git repository to keep a history of their changes, but I don't fully understand how to use it or how to get releva...

team-management metrics progress-monitor

(Yes, it's on another site. Just saying).

@GlenH7 I knew someone who had a bit part in a movie getting his ass kicked by Chuck Norris.

user41796

@psr Not sure I would want to sign up for that. Urban lore aside, he really knew how to fight and hit hard. And if the Director wanted a "realistic" shoot, I think I'd be downright scared.

8:49 PM

@GlenH7 - Well, I don't doubt he was capable of hurting someone, but I think it's quite rare for anyone to get injured while filming. Plus, the scene was more campy than realistic. Funny to watch (I didn't see it being filmed, just the result).

1 hour later…

10:09 PM

@psr any further on Haskell yet?

and the stories you hear about number of bones lots of those people in movies have broken, I don't think it's near as rare as you'd wish..

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