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12:00 AM
Hm, alright. I am going to bear that in mind and probably do that if this continues to give me an absurdity-induced headache.
 
Anyways, I figured I'd just point you towards it, since you had issues with ItonPython. :)
Oh another great benefit is the fact that you can make your scripts in visual studio, saving you a ton of work and giving you full intellisense support and other visual studio features.
 
Well there's PyTools nowadays so that's alright :)
 
In other news, having split up my project into multiple solutions wasn't as bad as I first thought.
 
Do you mean your solution into multiple projects?
 
I've actually started to like it. It's much more clean, though changing code in the shared classes is a bit more work. Can't refactor between solutions.
 
12:14 AM
Or your entire game project into actually multiple solutions..?
 
No, multiple solutions. I have
TinkerWorX.Legeria.Client
TinkerWork.Legeria.Editor
TinkerWorx.Legeria.Server
 
:O Oh wow okay.
 
All separate solutions which share a single project constructed specifically for the purpose of supporting both 32 bit XNA and 64 bit non-XNA.
So the server can be built as a 64 bit application if necessary.
Btw, does it sound completely retarded to save tile data in .png files? At least, as a quick compression option?
Pngs offer palletizing and other features to bring down the file size.
So I'm basically just storing data in the R and G color components.
The effect is pretty nice, 16kb of tile data turns into ~400bytes of png data.
It's a larger overhead when saving and loading, but it saves a bunch of space.
 
@WilliamMindWorXMariager hey
 
@thelinuxlich, Heya. :)
 
12:23 AM
@WilliamMindWorXMariager when we were talking about monogame, I forgot to mention that the "develop3d" branch is more updated than the master
 
Oh hey I fixed my thing. I suspected something really weird was happening in the __new__ method, and so when I replaced it it worked:

def __new__(cls, position = Vector2(0,0)):
o = object.__new__(cls)
return o
 
@thelinuxlich Well, I've decided to wait with MonoGame for now. Had a little too many silent fails which I didn't feel like dealing with. And the switch should be easy enough later on.
 
I am somhow fucking up in here: github.com/fabianhjr/Warfare/blob/master/Engine/object.py#L74 Am I properly converting spherical coordinates to cartesian ones?
 
Watch the language, you'll bring the moderators from on high.
 
12:29 AM
:O oh really? I am sorry, I won't repeat.
 
Na, I have no idea
It's probably fine when it's not directed at someone :)
 
@WilliamMindWorXMariager it is developing faster and I think it will even more once steam offers its linux client
 
That's good to hear. It's really messy at the moment.
 
12:53 AM
I don't think the moderators show up until someone flags the post which usually would be the result of it being directed at someone.
 
I think they do! INTERNET POLICE!
 
INTERPOL?!?!!
 
 
1 hour later…
2:33 AM
Weird
 
~Hello
 
Hâllo
Ich bin lerne Deutsch; Es ist gut?
 
hellooooo
 
@fabianhjr O.O
 
Nein, es ist nicht gut.
Ich weiß [very little] Deutsch
One day it will become my 4th language; one day
 
2:46 AM
o.o Omg, talk about bilingual.
 
Au Mexico, les étudiantes parlent Espagnol, Anglais et Français.
J'ai une pauvre prononciation du Français; Moins, je voudrais aller au Europe pour apprendre plus.
It is funny, how the first world countries are less "educated" than the rest of the world. Many in the USA or Canada do not even understand their own language.
Here in Mexico, we would normally get the TEACHERS certificate by 12th Grade.
 
<O_O>
 
:/ yeah indeed, but I just want to learn more about computers
 
@fabianhjr +1
 
Though, this is my Plan I have Native Proficiency in English and Spanish; I want to get at least Level-4 in German, Swedish, and French. Then move to Stockholm and work for DICE.
 
2:54 AM
o: Sounds good, I hope you are successful!
 
:/ I hope too; I just fear I will drop HS and learn on my own.
That is my only current issue.
 
:/ really weird, huh?
 
Lol a little o:
 
:/ it is just that I learn much faster and to a highre specificity by my own; even if I don't get a piece of paper.
And I hate waking up at 4:45
*rant
 
3:00 AM
Lolzy
 
hey what articles do you recommend for a developer trying to learn pixel art?
 
@thelinuxlich o.o
Not possible XD
Joking :D
 
hahaahahaha yes it is there is minecraft
so everything is possible
 
3:06 AM
@thelinuxlich Minecraft is different D:
 
it is crap pixel art
 
+1
XD
Here:
This is pretty nice:
I cant find the other one- TRYING TO COME TO MEMORY E_E
btw Derek Yu Ftw - He made Spelunky the most hardest game in all of Narnia
Although he is weird o.o
And has weird stuff on that site... >_>
I recommend not browsing.
 
... You browsed e-e
I haven beaten this game yet
 
i am on the last level of meat boy
 
3:12 AM
o.O lies
 
nope hehehehe
 
@thelinuxlich Okay.. well you may be able to beat Spelunky on your first try then o.o
Although that's impossible :)
Download game e-e Tell me if you die
 
did you play the binding of isaac?
 
@thelinuxlich The trailer freaked me out. I saw some dude crying on the ground and I'm like: O.O
 
hahahaa
 
3:15 AM
Randomness
 
that game is awesome
 
o.o Hmm. I may purchase it. I do have 15 dollars I want to spend on Video Games
Have you played - Little Big Planet?
Never gets old(lies, I haven't play it in a year).
 
nope
 
Its a Must Play
 
I need to stop developing artemis and create some games
 
3:19 AM
@thelinuxlich 3D or 2D?
 
@thelinuxlich Awesome! Hope you have fun dev'ing games!
 
and probably XNA
 
@thelinuxlich :DDD
Well, if your deciding on making a game that you plan on selling - IndieDB is a great place to get feedback and dedicated followers for your game :D
 
cool!
 
3:24 AM
I've been roaming around on the site for days, and their comments are really constructive - aside from the trolls :/
I don't know if I'm becoming paranoid, but I actually refuse to talk about my game's concept in public now. I'll start doing it again, but once I've gotten the main features fleshed out o.o
Lol -_-
 
back
I dunno why, I prefer the down-sampling and bordering technique.
So you make your normal image, then scale it down(It pixelates ) and then you just remark as desired.
 
and what do you think about skeletal animation?
 
3:48 AM
I haven't look into animations yet.
My OpenGL game has no aniations at all
Though I have enjoyed Dynamics and Particle Systems
 
 
1 hour later…
4:58 AM
deadchat!
got a collision detection question
 
VS11 has an integrated IDE support for HLSL, also it has debuging and intellisence support.
@JMRboosties do ask
 
is there a better way to do detection than the following:
 
@Gajet That is pretty cool!
 
well, rewind.
i have a list of collision objects which are basically just rectangles with position, dimension, and texture (if necessary)
so i try to check for collision by:
player extends collision object, anything that needs to collide with anything does in this model
so if the objects do collide, i need to change the location of the player to the edge of the wall
now if this was a known wall, say, the top border of the game window, i could just go player.Position.Y = collide.BoundingBox.Bottom
 
you really can't optimize a code written in less than 5 lines!
 
5:10 AM
yea, i know
that part i send you is just the basic "how im doing it"
i need to fill in the //commented area and thats what im askin about
looking for insight on an optimal way for figuring out how exactly the bounding boxes are colliding so i can figure out how to remedy it
 
bounding box collision checking is just a simple AABB check
 
yea i can check of a collision exists pretty easily
 
I've got to go bbl
 
but if it exists my goal is to just manually override the position to the edge of the collided object, if that makes sense
later
 
just check the terms dynamic, kinematic and static objects if you don't know what they mean
 
5:14 AM
i'll look into it, thanks
 
5:44 AM
static objects are just basic solid objects that doesn't move at all.
kinematic objects can move but they don't have a mass so you can't apply force to them.
dynamic objects have both velocity and mass. so they are just normal Newtonian objects you work with for every simulation.
 
at this point im working on a top down rpg style type game
so i wont need anything dynamic
 
it's nicer to have other objects types.
I won't say anything about kinematic for now, but you'll surly need static objects
think of a collision between a house and a player.
in this case house is an static object while player is dynamic
 
6:07 AM
well wouldnt the player be kinematic?
since its top-down view, there isnt gravity
 
your entities type doesnt change, your environment does. It still a dynamic, but you dont apply any gravity on it.
 
i dont understand the purpose of using dynamic if the object doesnt have mass
 
let's talk about a bullet, it should go straight forward, until it hits an object.
or imagine simulating a bowling game. the ball should continue same speed even after it hits the pegs.
that's why they introduced kinematic objects. those are just simple objects with a very high mass that (1/mass) is almost zero
 
i can see that being useful in a top down 2d game
bbl, gotta go will discuss morelater, thanks!
 
6:24 AM
netbeans compiling with VC++ compiler
It would help my life so much, but it doesnt support any debugger yet :/
 
@GustavoGtoknu why don't you use VC express?
 
IMHO Netbeans code completion is MUCH better than VC Express Intelissense
and also, it would be easier if i could keep the same project for two platforms, just using a different compiler
 
yeah code completion is not that good in VC but debugger rocks.
 
ppl say that VC Ultimate Intelissense is better, but i dont have money to try it lol
 
me neither. though there are cracked versions all over the net, but I like to do my things legal
 
6:34 AM
2gb for a trial? heh, no thanks.
 
now that you mention it, ARE THEY INSANE?
 
this would take like 1 whole day to download here
or 3 perhaps. I never know how good my internet speed will be at the next second >.>
 
how come you have an internet connection worst than mine?
it's just an achievement!
 
I live in Brazil everythings worse here :D
it is usually 80~100kBps
but sometimes it spikes down to 30kBps
 
well my top speed is 90kBps.
but it's rather very high speed here
and sometimes it comes down to 30-40kBps for couple of minutes.
but with that speed you can download the whole package in one night.
I know cause from 2am-8am I can download without bandwidth limit,
and I usually download something around 1.5GB minimum in that time span.
 
6:43 AM
Thankfully here I dont have bandwidth limit
 
 
7 hours later…
1:22 PM
I need help with spherical coords, they are really annoying me: github.com/fabianhjr/Warfare/blob/master/Engine/object.py#L74
 
What are you using spherical coordinates for that you cant use cartesian coordinates?
 
A planet.
 
Ah, makes sense.
 
It is just that I want to place the camara, that is the only operation I have not been able to do
 
What's wrong? the conversion appear to be right
 
1:31 PM
Dunno, the camara does not behave properly
 
Well, although for me, I still prefer doing it with cartesian coordinates :P
 
That line gets the pos for the camara
So that it looks at the player at all times
BRB
 
Hm, i cant see nothing wrong, lol, maybe wait any pro get online and ask again (:
Btw if you're doing to make it easier to rotate the camera around a pivot
I did something like this with cartesian before:
made a "empty" node on my pivot, attached the camera to it and moved camera backwards
now just yaw and pitch the pivot node, camera will rotate around it. It may be not hard to achieve with matrices
 
That sounds good, I will try it
BRB
Ok, it won't be possible because I am using gluLookAt which must be called before drawing anything at all.
 
1:52 PM
You dont have to draw anything
a few matrix calculations should do.
 
2:14 PM
:/ what?
 
2:31 PM
get a matrix with these multiplications Translate(PivotPoint) * Rotate(CameraRotation) * Translate(-PivotPoint)
this should work well
At least, im expect it to.
 
3:23 PM
hey
tell me if the docs are getting good
 
hello :)
 
Is Tiago Costa brazillian? :o looks like one brazillian name
 
I happen to really like what what this question is getting at, but not sure most of the answers really understand the problem:
4
Q: Constant resource drain for strategy game

MobSo I have a factory that builds a unit over time. The unit costs mass. Mass is stored as a floating point variable, and is constantly generated over time. Example, I have a resource node that gives 5 mass a second. That means each step you take 5 mass * deltaT and adds that to total mass. When ma...

 
I don't know, but I am brazilian :)
 
3:33 PM
Wtf linux lich, you're from Mogi das cruzes! LOL
 
auhahuuhauha why wtf?
 
I didn't know there were some brazilians around here heh
g2g now, later :)
btw, I'm from Sao paulo, nice to know there are some neighbors here :D
 
cool
see ya
 
Woah, Nintendo reported an annual loss. I wonder if that will be the spark to light a fire under them
 
that was obvious
 
3:48 PM
@GustavoGtoknu thanks for the help; I still don't get it working though, Now I have a "blue object" fillif the screen
 
3:59 PM
@thelinuxlich Guessing the 3DS wasn't selling as well as they imagined?
 
Maybe it's people holding out for the Wii-U
 
@Noctrine they released the 3DS without any blockbuster title, the loss was certain
 
4:16 PM
hi
 
Hi
BRB
 
@thelinuxlich The doc looks fine, except why do you say "Your components should inherit from the class Component, which is just a placeholder for internal reflection."?
and I have limited input because I haven't used the system
 
@JohnMcDonald because it is just that lol
@JohnMcDonald what is missing?
 
Does the user need to know, or care, that internally, it uses Reflection to do stuff?
 
4:28 PM
do you think I should minimize it to "Your components must inherit from the class Component" ?
 
or: "Your components must inherit from the class Component in order to be recognized as such". But I think that last bit is implied
Also couldn't hurt to have a link to the original java project
:)
 
okay, I will change it
oh yes, it was on the project README but not on the doc
 
I should probably check out the project sometime. Looks like it could be useful
 
cool :)
@JohnMcDonald the framework was adopted by Ploobs, a XNA 4 engine
 
@JohnMcDonald Do you think he wants to balance it so that all factories produce a product in equal importance regardless of needed resource amount when in starvation mode, or if it should be weighted so that factory taking 10 resources produces half as many products as opposed to factory taking 5 resources
it's slightly open ended question
 
4:41 PM
/me smells architecture astronaut
 
No, I'm pretty sure he's talking about supply lock in a case where there are limited resources (5 mass) and multiple supply consumers, the total of which exceeds the current production rate (each wants 3 mass)
 
i was thinking having some sort of priority queue and having a starvation number that increases if factory is not fed during the update step
 
If you have a list: [producer1, consumer1, consumer2, consumer3]
and you update in order, starting at supply = 0, you'll get this:
producer1 produces 5 mass. You now have 5 mass
consumer1 wants 3 mass. Success, you now have 2 mass
consumer2 wants 3 mass. Fail
consumer3 wants 3 mass. Fail

[next tick]
producer1 produces 5 mass. You now have 7 mass
consumer1 wants 3 mass. Success, you now have 4 mass
consumer2 wants 3 mass. Success, you now have 1 mass
consumer3 wants 3 mass. Fail

... consumers 2 and 3 starve until consumer 1 has been satisfied
 
which should be solved with starvation number and priority queue
those with most starvation get served first
 
hey guys
 
4:47 PM
yup. Simply put, I think if a consumer is fed, it should go the end of the queue, so:
producer1 produces 5 mass. You now have 5 mass
consumer1 wants 3 mass. Success, you now have 2 mass. Moves to end of list
consumer2 wants 3 mass. Fail
consumer3 wants 3 mass. Fail

[next tick]
producer1 produces 5 mass. You now have 7 mass
consumer2 wants 3 mass. Success, you now have 4 mass
consumer3 wants 3 mass. Success, you now have 1 mass
consumer1 wants 3 mass. Fail <-- This guy was fed last round
hmm... this was actually a good explanation. I should add this as an answer
 
which will produce a result independent of the required amount of resources
can be adjusted so that you increase priority by 1/need or such number
 
hello
@JMRboosties we have docs now, dude thelinuxlich.github.com/artemis_CSharp
 
@thelinuxlich nice
i was talking to gajet about some collision detection stuff last night
i dont think we were on the same page
 
I guess not
 
nice @ the documentation btw
so im looking for an ideal way to do collision
 
5:01 PM
ah, one these component/entity systems
i'm a bit of a fan although i dont use em
 
i have a collisionobject class which consists of size, position, and texture if applicable
 
the words entity and component get used so much to describe variety of differing patterns that it's a bit annoying that this particular one is called entity system
 
@Toni I'm trying to make it really flexible to accomodate any style
 
so my issue is this:
i can easily find if an intersection exists between the player and a collisionobject
but whats trickier is remedying that intersection
so lets pretend the character is on the screen with a static box blocking movement in the middle of the screen
what ive seen is that if the user tries to press forward to walk what woiuld be into the box, the update() method recognizes the intersection and resets their position to that box's edge
if(intersection) { player.Position = box.Left; } in pseudocode
 
5:10 PM
a) does that seem about right to you guys for that isolated example?
 
@JMRboosties, hmm, Have you considered a vector-based collision resolution? Where you'd apply a velocity vector to the colliding object(s) away from the other with a magnitude related to either: the depth of collision, or even just the distance between the objects?
 
well, there are existing solutions to collision detection and responses. I dont remember any good online resources on the subject though
 
I'm no expert on collision resolution
 
@JohnMcDonald right now im working on a really basic top down view game
you just walk around, there isnt really any velocity in the sense of a rolling ball or projectile or anything
 
typically physics and collision detections are separated to a physics world -system.
well, looking at how box2d and such do it
 
5:15 PM
Well, when you move, it's either grid based (in which case, just don't move to an occupied grid), or you're using some form of velocity, no?
 
for kinetic bodies, not reliant on forces and physics, but that are programmatically moved, you would check for hits manually..
before moving
 
ok yea
obviously any moving object has velocity
but collisions wont really be affected by the laws of physics
just if(tryingToWalkIntoWall) { dont }
 
Using the method I'm talking about, I think applying a force to the velocity in the opposite direction should in effect, cancel the moving object's velocity and stop it
 
if(!collide(this.position+point(1,0)) {frame to right is available} mentality
but i'm no expert on this, i shut up before i make more of a fool of myself
 
@Toni this is what i was looking to do
if you cant move right any more, you reject their attempt to move right and make it so they're stuck to the immediate left of the box
 
5:23 PM
yeah... I can see the method working. But if at any time it stops working (for whatever reason), your character could end up being stuck
 
for that one could check if current position is available
then do an escape plan like moving entity to some direction of choice until free space is located
lots of games seem to do that
the old games, where you glitch through walls
 
There's the word I was looking for: glitch
 
well, adding some force push opposite of intersecting objects' origins would do
or however the colliders are structured
 
@JMRboosties, Does your game allow you to move at arbitrary angles?
Or only cardinal directions? (N, S, E, W)
 
@JohnMcDonald cardinal only
 
5:32 PM
Ah, ok. Then the solution proposed by @Toni should work
 
ok
here is where it gets tricky though:
its a top down view game, so you can potentially hit a collidable object from the top, bottom, left, or right
think like a house, you can run into it on any side
 
add 4 colliders
 
hm?
like each collidable object has 4 different sides rather than just a rectangle?
right now i check for it like this:
 
ermh.. each wall has a collider
 
5:39 PM
well, there's quite a few bits of terminology you might want to look up to get them right
usually it's done so that a gameobject may have collider(s) attached to it
colliders include axis aligned boxes, circles, more complex shapes..
this all depends how deep the rabbit hole you want to go
if you dont want any proper physics and just collision detection, it's not so difficult
 
i think for this learning project im just going to be working with grid based maps
 
one gameobject occupies one cell?
if it's actually a grid and you dont mean that it's a 2d plane
then all i've been talking has been a bit silly
oh well, anyway, keep at it. i'll go get tea
 
@Toni its not sidescrolling, rather top down
sorry, i thought i made that clear
im new
 
well, one could still have 'proper' physics system even in top down view
just no gravity applied
 
if its cardinal only the only physics you'd have is velocity, which just ends up being run/walk speed
 
5:49 PM
well, anyway, you can get away with checking for collisions before applying position changes
 
@Toni thats what im aiming at doing
uhh actually
i think im doin it backwards atm
 
alright, i think i made my idea go across for now
but i've had my share of making buggy collision responses, so dont take my word for it
 
haha, thanks
 
6:17 PM
Hey guys, got a 3d collision problem.
I want to know exactly where a ray collides with a mesh on my scene. Dont want to know which mesh, just the collision point.
Are there any solutions that doesnt involve iterating through all triangles?
Also, bounding boxes dont help me here, because my mesh may be a bit concave.
 
I don't know a lot about 3D, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think at the lowest level, you'll need to iterate through each triangle. How you get to that "lowest level" can vary though
 
yeah, I'm quite afraid that this is my only option here D:
 
Well... getting down to that "lowest level" can be done quite easily I'd think, but it would greatly depend on your game
in an FPS, grouping each limb might be an option for example. So: see if it collides with a player's AABB, then see if it collides with each limb's AABB, then go over each triangle in those limbs
 
Yeah, i thought of it, but my problem is that it is a batched mesh...
 
:/ that's where my knowledge ends
 
6:27 PM
So it would always intercept the AABB, but if i just knew the point of the contact, and the direction it is coming(direction is easy) then i could simply know what is the ray pointing to.
@JohnMcDonald But thanks anyway :D
 
I'm pretty sure there's no magical way to know where a ray is intersecting a mesh (aka a set of triangles) without going through each of those triangles
You can just limit the set of triangles you look at by grouping them
 
Although i havent even implemented the iterating way to see how worse will it be
like chunking? yeah, may be a possibility.
 
Well, it depends on how often you plan on doing this, and how many triangles you need to check against
 
@JohnMcDonald I've heard of something like drawing the scene again to a low res target with pixel depth info and check against it, but i really have no idea how to implement it and i also wasn't able to find nothing on it.
Well, once per frame, but i could cut down to each time the mouse pos changes
 
And you're sure you want triangles? not meshes or objects?
 
6:33 PM
@JohnMcDonald I didn't got this one, what do you mean?
 
Well... it sounds like you're using the mouse to do something in a 3D world. Some of these uses are to select logical objects. I can only think of one reason off-hand to select individual triangles: terrain editing
 
Miguel de Icaza just post me an issue, LOL
 
heh yeah john, you guessed well :)
 
Ok, so a terrain editor. Now it's coming together
So yeah... spatial indexing could help? Like an Octree or Quadtree. I say Quadtree because you may not care about the 3rd dimension for this index
 
6:51 PM
As I already have a physics engine (bullet) integrated on the project, will it worth if i implement it on the scene and let it handle the ray collisions?
maybe it's overwork, for a simple raycasting
 
I don't know enough about Bullet or meshes or whatever to answer that. But I would bet that your physics engine probably uses a form of spatial indexing
 
Sorry. It didn't come to me, but how would a quadtree help me here?
 
it might help some, if your mesh isn't animated
 
Well, let's start here: do you understand how an octree could help?
 
it divides my scene/mesh into a tree
but dont know how it could help..
 
6:54 PM
since building the tree would probably be costly enough to counter any benefit
if it's done each time
 
Well, instead of looking at your entire world, it can quickly disregard massive chunks of your world that have nothing to do with the problem at hand
 
@Toni It isnt animated :D
 
mm.. we we talking about the mesh triangle collision thing still
 
A quadtree is only in 2D, so it could work if your world is pretty close to flat (not a spherical world for example), and you just wouldn't add the height into the tree. It would achieve pretty much the same thing as an Octree
except simpler
 
@JohnMcDonald If this helps the world is already chunked
into smaller chunks, although, it isnt a quadtree, i chunk it by hand
 
6:58 PM
Well, since it's chunked, why not use those AABBs to do this ray trace?
 
Because as the mesh is pretty static, it is chunked already on the map file, to save some time.
 
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