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2:08 AM
Hello, quick question for you all: In following the standard format for a cover letter, I have my address and details then the date then I would like to put the details of the company I am applying to along with the details of the specific person I am sending my letter to. Then, I start the actual content. I am not sure how to address the person I am sending the letter to. I have figured out that they are a 3rd party HR resource being utilized by the company I am applying for.
So it seems incorrect to have their name in association with the company's details since they arent actual part of that company. Should I have their name, and then saying "In association with..." then give the company's details?
I am applying to a job directly from a company's website. I hit "apply" and then i get taken to outlook to email PersonsName@Company. Having googled the person's name, I see that they are working for an HR company and not directly for the company I am applying to.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:27 AM
My 3rd nominee for "Worst of HNQ 2017" is:
15
Q: Intern seems uninterested at work internship

TurtleI have an intern at work right now - I'll name him Kyle - who seems uninterested in the field. He's been here for almost 9 months now. I had provided Kyle some cheatsheets for work, and taught him a few things. However, in the next week. Kyle comes in like a "blank slate", as if he's starting f...

Keep rambling on about an unmotivated intern, you get 15 upvotes and 5 answers, without even asking an actual question.
Nobody seems to have even noticed that there is no actual question there, perhaps because they were too "entertained" by the post.
 
 
6 hours later…
9:56 AM
I'm surprised how much of an issue the publishing of work-party photos on the local intranet is... I'm normally pretty privacy minded, but this seems to be a bit too much. They're coworkers and you're at a company party... if things are going on that you really don't want your coworkers (who are there) to have pictures of, you should rethink your actions, not complain about your privacy :/
 
Kaz
@Erik My issue is absolutely not with the content of the photos. Simply the fact that, based on what was in the question, the OP took an executive decision that they did not have the authority to make. HR pushed back and told him it was unprofessional. He disagreed, I disagreed with his disagreement.
If you get given files for a specific purpose, that is not an invitation to start making decisions about who else should have access to them.
 
I agree that it was a bad choice to do it without consulting HR, but "unprofessional" is pushing it to me. I'd rather have colleagues who are willing to make decisions over ones who need instructions for everything.
But then I always have issues with hierarchical models and authority anyway, so it's probably just my personal attitude :)
 
Kaz
@Erik I disagree completely. In order to do my work, I'm trusted with access to files, documents and internal information that is not public information, even if some of it can be derived from public information. The over-riding rule is always to ask permission before sharing something I've been trusted with access to.
And sure, publicly-taken photos are probably harmless. But the principle is the same. If they're not your files, you don't get to decide where, how, and to whom they're distributed.
And evidently his HR agrees, else they wouldn't have had them taken down while explaining that it's unprofessional.
 
Yes, I can see that you and the company's HR agree :)
It's probably also a cultural thing. I've noticed some pretty massive differences between US and NL culture in the workplace in general.
 
Kaz
@Erik Probably more of a workplace-culture thing.
I work in Financial Services. Data integrity and security is something we take very seriously.
 
10:12 AM
I work with social services and personal information, where it's also taken very seriously.
 
@MaskedMan Of course that would hit HNQ. Sigh.
I can't even tell what he's asking.
@Parry Hello Parry. This question has been covered before I think. Check these search results
 
@Erik and @Kaz - in the UK this would also be taken very seriously. Our HR regs are rather stringent (even if I wasn't in Financial Services, which is even more sensitive to this)
 
Kaz
@RoryAlsop Interesting point: also in the UK over here ^^
 
@Kaz For some reason I assumed that the NL Erik mentioned was because you were there... Sorry
 
Kaz
@RoryAlsop Quite alright. I'm sure I have assumptions about people in here that are wrong but have just never come up.
 
10:27 AM
I mentioned NL because that's where I'm from :)
 
ahhh - I get you
I'm based in Scotland, and have spent most of my career working in or with regulated industries
Is it still only 2 nominees for the election? @Lilienthal maybe because you and @ChristopherEstep have such high rep it's scaring folks away :-)
 
Kaz
@RoryAlsop I thought about it, but I'd much rather have @Lilienthal as a Mod than do it myself. Maybe next time :)
 
I'd happily vote for either of them, but if we don't get any others I'll nom - you may then get others who know they'll have a better chance than me.
 
Still collecting diamonds? @RoryAlsop ;)
 
@Lilienthal trying to work out where my breaking point is :-)
 
10:36 AM
But yeah it's still just me and @ChristopherEstep last I checked. But there's another 4 days left in the nomination.
 
And of my top 13 sites, I only mod 6, so...you know
 
@Lilienthal Obviously, it will be one of you two - and that will be a good result for the site
But it's nice to have others nominate, and see what is required. SOme have done that and not succeeded in a first election, but been reassured by the voting and gone on to be elected in later ones
 
Hmm, just realised I haven't actually read any of Chris' election posts. Wanted to avoid having it colour mine just because he submitted first.
 
@Lilienthal (that's what I always do too - I think it's essential to avoid accidentally copying)
 
10:38 AM
I must say the comments I got on my nomination where a pretty nice feel-good moment.
 
10:51 AM
10
Q: Parents Whose Last Created Child is a 'Failure'

joralbertI have a lookup relation, so I need to filter Parents (id, Name) whose last created Child has status__c Failure. Tried something like: SELECT Id, Name FROM Parent WHERE RecordType.Name = 'rt' AND Id IN ( SELECT Parent__c FROM Child__c WHERE Status__c = 'Failure' /*ORDER BY CreatedDate ...

For a moment, I thought this HNQ question was from Worldbuilding. :P
 
I would've guessed Parenting.
 
@Erik That sounds even more hilarious.
 
Sadly, we have had ones not too dissimilar on Parenting :-(
@MaskedMan hilarious in a depressing way
 
 
2 hours later…
12:42 PM
0
Q: The Culture at workplace.stackexchange.com

PoetI really hate to write a negative review about a site and I will preface what I say by acknowledging there's a lot of great people on this board with valuable information on the workplace. However, I absolutely must protest the culture and attitude a lot of Users portray. I'd like to begin by te...

 
1:25 PM
RE: ^^^^^ I will be good, I will be good, I will be good, I will be good.
 
Kaz
> I can't speak for anyone else or their comments, but I like to make my answers clear, short, and to the point.

You could also perceive them as terse, blunt, and callous.

Some people find that helpful, some people find it aggressive and heartless.
Me in a nutshell ^^
 
@Kaz 3/4 of the active community members in a nutshell
2
me included, sides'
 
1:46 PM
@Kaz I'm the same way. I'm blunt by nature and while I'm not going out of my way to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm not walking on eggshells either.
 
1:56 PM
I have to admit - if I were to leave a site. I would just go, not do the full drama queen bit to make sure everyone knew
 
@moderators Seriously, this is going way over the top.
 
That link is giving a 404, or was the content of the 404 page the point?
Or am I just not having enough rights on this stack to see it? :p
 
I see it. I'm not sure I would have used the energy/time to delete that, but to be fair it wasn't adding anything
If it was mine I wouldn't care it was deleted
It had more value on the original question, but not when the comments were moved to chat
 
@RoryAlsop Why was it not adding anything? It was the only useful comment on the question. There is no question in the so-called question, so that was the only comment which asked the OP to actually ask a question.
 
@MaskedMan it was when on the question, but of more value would be voting to close or flagging as Not a Question
in the discussion in the chat room it was a bit out of place. Like I said, though, I wouldn't have removed it myself
 
2:12 PM
@RoryAlsop If it was useful on the question, why was it moved to the chatroom? We tell tall stories about using comments to improve the post, and that comment was trying to seek clarification from the author, so what was the problem there?
Just to be clear on this, the OP has not clarified what his actual question is, so that comment is not obsolete either.
 
Hey - I don't see it as a problem. One of the things that happens when moving comments to chat is that it's difficult to move only a selection. It moves all or none unless you put in a lot of extra effort. I'm not a mod here and I didn't delete it, so I'm unsure as to why it was deleted. I just mentioned I didn't see it had value
 
It was deleted by a moderator from EL&U, I wonder what business they have here.
@RoryAlsop That is a lot like saying it is difficult to punish only criminals, so let us put everyone in jail. "It is too difficult to do" is not an acceptable excuse. Either do it properly or don't do it at all.
 
@MaskedMan no. Mods volunteer their time and have vast amounts of things to do, that are rightly flagged up by the community. One of the things that makes life a wee bit easier is that when comment chains get too long, mods (or the author of the comments) get an option to move them to chat. Not pick and choose. Mov them all to chat.
If we had to go through every single comment discussion (which I'll remind you are designed to be temporary and should all eventually be deleted!) we'd get nothing done
 
-1
Q: Please avoid degenerating the site into a discussion forum

Masked ManWe hear over and over and over and over again that StackExchange is not a forum, it is a Q&A site. At the slightest sniff of a discussion blooming, moderators chase comments with torches and pitchforks into chatrooms. However, it appears that the community subscribes to the philosophy of "what go...

 
@RoryAlsop Then why not get rid of the comment feature entirely?
 
2:19 PM
@MaskedMan because I think it has some value in requesting or providing clarification. People ask enough for it.
I'd be reasonably happy without it
but it is useful to be able to say "do you mean X" or "can you add in Y to clarify your meaning"
then once that is done deleting the comments off
to clean things up
 
@RoryAlsop Yeah, so when someone posts a comment to request clarification, moderators move it to chat because it is "not useful"?
 
@MaskedMan incorrect, as I think I've already stated
that is not why that would have been moved to chat
 
@RoryAlsop "once that is done" in your own words.
 
in fact it may not have been a mod who moved it
@MaskedMan nonono - I mean delete it completely when the job is done
not move it to chat
any comment should be temporary, and once the clarification or response is done, the comment should go, leaving the updated post with all the info
 
@RoryAlsop Now look, nobody is forced to be a moderator, so "I am doing this voluntarily, so I can do whatever I want, and you cannot question me" is not acceptable.
 
2:22 PM
@MaskedMan once again, that is entirely not what I said - I'm happy to discuss, but not if you make up things
 
@RoryAlsop "once the clarification is done"
 
Kaz
I feel like this question is off-topic, but I'm not quite sure what to close it for:
1
Q: Inform potential employer of other companies

BillyJeanI am interviewing at different companies and the resources the companies put into this hiring-process vary a lot. For example At Company A I was "only" interviewed for 45 minutes by one manager until now Company B has interviewed me twice (and now asked for a third interview) where multiple peo...

 
@RoryAlsop I am not making up things, the evidence is there for you to see, unless of course, you don't want to see.
If the comment was deleted after the OP clarified his question, I would have no problem.
But that is clearly not what happened here.
 
@MaskedMan alternatively - you have made up something that you think I have said, and I'm saying you are entirely wrong.
@MaskedMan if you read back what I wrote, what happened is: a comment chain got too long, and got moved to chat. Either by a mod or one of the commenters.
Then someone deleted your comment - possibly as it hasn't any value in its location
You can flag a question as "unclear what you are asking" and that would be more useful, I think, than being a bit inflammatory in chat with me when I'm just trying to help give a view of what may have happened
 
Just answer these questions:
1. Did the post have an actual answerable question?
2. Did my comment ask the OP to clarify his actual question?
3. Did I use the comment feature in a manner it is supposed to be used?
4. Did the OP actually clarify the question?
5. Was my comment moved to chat by a moderator?
 
2:26 PM
A useful way to approach things is to not be personally invested in stuff you write on Stack Exchange. Remember once posted, it is actually community property, and can be edited by a wide range of people, or deleted
@MaskedMan No - I'm not going to, as you are being deliberately inflammatory and rude. Some of those I have already answered (as best I can - and I have explained where I don't know)
 
What part of my 5 questions was rude?
 
I'm a bit surprised you expect me to a) be able to, answer them all, and b) respond to someone demanding this of me
 
Just admit that your diamond guys made a mistake, and move on.
Rather than calling me inflammatory and rude.
 
@RoryAlsop the deletion of that comment is a bit dubious
 
@MaskedMan I'm not sure what you are on about now, but yes, you are being rude to me. I am not in a position to do much of that stuff any more than you
@enderland I said as much. I wouldn't have deleted it
it's nothing to do with me though - I have been trying to help this dude out with info as far as I can
@MaskedMan do you think I am someone I am not, for some reason?
 
2:30 PM
@RoryAlsop Disagreement = rude. Thanks for the explanation.
 
it's not what, but how, that determines rudeness (most of the time)
2
 
@enderland it is very hard to be aware of tone on the internet.
 
@MaskedMan I'm not sure I saw disagreement, so no, it's not that.
 
which is why the "how" is even more important online
 
@enderland If you go through my comments here, you would notice that I am not even addressing @RoryAlsop. That is not just a coincidence, I was trying to have a discussion on how things turned out this way rather than "why did you do it this way", but apparently, he took it as a personal attack, which I cannot help with.
 
2:34 PM
@MaskedMan with them addressed to @roryalsop I wasn't in a position to guess you meant otherwise
 
@RoryAlsop I see.
Ok, that makes sense.
 
What should I do if I delete 300gb of customer data? and none of the backup options seem to work?
 
@MaskedMan I was trying to help from a general perspective of why would this happen
 
@RoryAlsop That's unfortunately how the chat room works. As there are multiple threads of discussion running, I was trying to reply to a particular thread, but the UX doesn't make it clear until you roll your mouse over it or something like that.
 
@MaskedMan well, I apologise for misunderstanding.
2
 
2:37 PM
at the end of the day we're all on the same team
 
Anyway, my intention with all those "@"s was to respond to a particular message, not to a specific user.
I apologize for the "rudeness" as well. :)
I will concede that my general irritation with stupid questions making to HNQ coloured my behaviour here as well.
 
also, there's nothing wrong with reposting a comment like that too, I can guarantee that none of us moderators will take offense to it
@MaskedMan it sounds like you must have flagged that comment after it got moved to chat?
it looks like that comment in chat was deleted because it was flagged saying it shouldn't have been moved to chat
 
@enderland I see.
I am glad our judicial systems don't work that way.
Person was wrongly put in jail. Someone gets a court order saying he shouldn't have been in jail, so they kill him.
 
what?
 
In other words, if I flag the comment saying it shouldn't have been "moved" to chat, it means it should be moved back to where it came from, not deleted entirely.
 
2:45 PM
the mod who deleted it (since chat flags are fubared all mods see all chat flags) has no way to know that and in this case no way to be able to do that
 
yup - move to chat is a one way process
 
@enderland If he had read my message, he would have a way to know that.
Unless of course, the mod cannot see the custom message either.
In which case, well, I will just ignore this and move on.
 
3:04 PM
chat flags are terribad
 
@RichardU I disagree
Online I can pick and choose my tone perfectly. There is no ambiguity and my intent is delivered most of the time
In real life my tone isn't something I can completly control
 
@Magisch I doubt this is as true as you think it is
 
To be honest, I wouldn't mind losing to @Lilienthal . She'd do a great job.
 
I'm not really sure who to vote for tbh
I like you, but I think lilienthal would make an amazing mod
and also, there's no way I'm running against both you and lilienthal, I'm a total dimwit in comparison
 
What happens happens. :) I'm ok either way. Genuinely.
And the important thing is we get another mod. Personally, i think 2 would be better, but nobody asked me. :)
 
Kaz
3:15 PM
@ChristopherEstep I would totally vote to have both of you.
 
Personally, I think we need to put a potato-sack over his head and force @JoeStrazzere to do it. He's about the most even person we have on here. :)
4
 
@ChristopherEstep I get the impression he wouldn't want it...izzat right, Joe?
 
3:28 PM
I'd be absolutely shocked if he wanted it because if he did, I'm certain it would be his.
 
So many people and they're all vastly better then me
ahh stack exchange ... being made painfully aware of the truth value behind "among the blind, the one eyes is king"
 
3:40 PM
I'm just happy that we have a good pool to work with.
 
0
Q: Why aren't Comment downvotes supported?

Joe StrazzereSince the site allows upvoting of Comments, why doesn't it allow downvoting as well? It seems only natural. I understand the whole point that "comments aren't designed to be permanent". That's a great theory, but in practice most comments remain in place forever. And I understand the whole poin...

 
@ChristopherEstep I "stalk" his profile from time to time. I look up to him as a mentor (without his knowledge, of course). I guess that holds for a lot of us. :) This is especially since my current manager ... uhm, let me just say, doesn't do many mentorish things.
 
See? He's the the gift that just keeps on giving. :)
 
I particularly like how he makes sarcastic remarks in a "gentle" way. I remember someone posting a question asking why companies insist on a degree because he was so smart without it anyway! Then Joe's reply was something like, "That is a very interesting idea. You should start a company where you hire only people without degrees. Then all the smart people will want to only work for you."
 
4:37 PM
@MaskedMan I think your mistaking wit for being gentle. To that, "Wit is educated insolence" - Aristotle
 
4:47 PM
@RichardU That is why "gentle" was in quotes. I was comparing it to the rather brusque comments that I usually make. :P
 
Most people think they are a lot funnier, a lot nicer, and a lot more clever than they actually are....
myself included ;)
 
5:03 PM
@enderland One of the principles I strongly believe in is "if you cannot laugh at yourself ... you should laugh at other people". ;)
 
5:27 PM
Whenever I make a wisecrack or a joke and my wife (usually) or someone else would say that it's not really that funny I'd say "You have to accept that when I'm cracking a joke, I'm doing it for my own amusement rather than anyone else's. I'm never disappointed."
 
5:45 PM
@ChristopherEstep my favourite validation is when I catch the kids making the same jokes I would, and their friends laugh. I know they wouldn't laugh if I said them, but I'm funny by proxy...
 
5:58 PM
@enderland I'm funny, but looks aren't everything.
@ChristopherEstep I stole the line "It's funny if you're me" and made it my own. Generally a good line when a joke fails miserably
 
 
3 hours later…
8:47 PM
1
Q: I'm kinda disturbed by all the petty conflict questions

Tomáš ZatoI'm not regular user on this Q&A, but I decided it can't hurt if I just leave this thought of mine here. What is this about is that I've seen several repetitive questions, most of which I've seen thanks to the Hot panel, which involved over-thinking and over-escalating really petty conflicts. I'...

 
9:22 PM
@RichardU What do you do when you aren't funny, not good looking, entirely untalented sides' from math and find any form of social interaction draining?
You become a software dev because in that profession you can get by with all these flaws
 
@Magisch I resemble that remark
 
was actually talking about myself
but ok
 
"get by" is relative, too
 
it works
in any other profession I'd be more miserable
got to work with what you got
not resigning myself to coasting on benefits for life
 
@Magisch actually, what I did was act in a few plays and do standup to overcome social anxiety, learned how to joke, started caring about my appearance, picked up a copy of "How to win friends and influence people" and a few other books
@Magisch my philosophy is that when you're dealt a bad hand, deal yourself a new one.
 
9:25 PM
My biggest problem is social interaction
 
The human will is an incredible thing, harness it and you can exceed your own limitations.
 
It's so stressfull
I can code an entire day and be super productive if nothing gets in the way
force me to talk to someone for more then an hour and I'm ready to sleep for 10+ hours
 
heh I'm just now writing a peer review for someone and am commenting that they could benefit from getting in front of people more lol
 
@Magisch so was mine, you can beat it
@enderland it works, I swear by it.
 
@enderland I get that all the time and that recommendation is not helping
 
9:27 PM
grad school forced me to do that - I gave mini presentations ALL THE TIME
 
the most important thing is to NEVER retreat from your weaknesses
 
got a meeting in the morning I'll be on the brink of exhaustion sleep all day
 
@enderland I had to learn to be aggressive and outgoing or lose my job. I bought a book on sales.
it worked
 
somewhere HLGEM has a great answer about this subject
 
9:53 PM
How many moderator spots is workplace trying to fill?
 
10:44 PM
@puzzlepiece87 Just one. The election page has that info on the right side.
"moderator positions available"
 

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