TRPG General Chat

12:44 AM

@AbrahamRay You ask lots of fairly unusual questions; I'd love to hear what your campaign(s) are like some time. Are you the one running these games? Or just an exuberantly-creative player?

Shalvenay

1:20 AM

hey @nitsua60

BESW

now the holiday season, with the ceremonial placing of the tiny santa hat on this owl, can officially begin https://t.co/c3fQVePaFW

Tweeted by AlsBoy on December 5, 2016 at 11:26 PM

nitsua60

1:42 AM

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Not bad... snowed today, on my wife's birthday, as she claims it has in her location every year of her life.

you?

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Coincidence! We had our first sea-level snowfall of the season here. Which is nice for das Kind, since we had none last winter.

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie Yeah, last winter was pretty mild (read: kids thought it was horrible) here, too. 2014-15, though... We had a naturally-formed 300' ice rink in my back yard!

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Wow. I haven't seen an outdoor ice rink since living in Ontario (and we still had to make our own by flooding a parking lot. :)

nitsua60

1:49 AM

@SevenSidedDie We ran a pick-up curling league that winter. My son still refers to it as "the best year of my life."

For me, it was lots of nights out on the ice with a hose from 11pm-midnight!

BESW

@nitsua60 Many happy returns of the day to her.

nitsua60

@BESW ty--I'll pass it along.

trogdor

@nitsua60 at first, that sounded weirder than it probably is (it's never snowed on my birthday where I am)

it's never snowed at all, but still

BESW

Well, there was the time the Air Force flew snow in and dropped it on a school playground.

But that was before your time, and mine.

trogdor

and it also doesn't like, count either way

nitsua60

1:54 AM

@BESW Seriously? That sounds simultaneously awesome and horrifically-wasteful =)

BESW

@nitsua60 Seriously, though I'm having a hard time tracking down online references to it.

This was in the 70s, I think.

nitsua60

@BESW That explains it =)

trogdor

@nitsua60 noooo nothing on this island is ever wasteful, how darest you sir

nitsua60

[looks at all those 'o's troggy just wasted...]

BESW

Yeah, it's kind of a perfect example of the military's attempts to ingratiate itself to the locals. Extravagant, wasteful, condescending, symbolic, and ultimately missing the point.

trogdor

1:58 AM

yeah

that is pretty much what I was referring to

BESW

"If we bring snow to these poor kids who are missing out on such an important part of American life, maybe their parents will forget that we're giving them an illegal dump site for Christmas."

trogdor

:'(

thanks for the reminder on that one

BESW

What, the semi-annual columns of toxic smoke don't keep it in mind?

trogdor

well, you have a point, but like, I am not constantly thinking about that one thing

I mean, there are also shooting ranges on possible burial sites

and like, overused running tracks and huge tracts of land literally taken from the local people to build bases on

there is plenty here to think about

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 marveling at your answer to that nasty dice distribution question :D

trogdor

2:03 AM

not to mention when I am not thinking about such horrible stuff :P

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 regarding that answer btw -- I wonder what the largest feasible-at-a-physical-table dice pool is...

because if you're comfortable rolling a 20d6 or so, you could a pretty reasonable range of skill values out of your scheme

BESW

2:18 AM

Ooh, earthquake.

trogdor

ah, must have been while I was driving

didn't feel it

BESW

@Shalvenay There are a lot of games which use fistfuls of dice.

Mythender comes to mind. There's another game whose name I can't recall right now... [goes digging]

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Thanks. The idea of creating any particular distribution with dice isn't so bad. It's the underspecified problem statement that made it nasty, IMO =)

BESW

...bah. Some years ago this chat talked about an RPG that was designed to roll a lot of dice, and didn't have much else going for it. I think its name had something to do with sharks?

Magician

Ah, Mythender. Rolling 30+ dice is a special kind of fun.

BESW

2:31 AM

It was a self-published system by folks who were otherwise unknown.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay So I don't think adding's the problem--though many do!--because grouping's a thing. I can comfortably jiggle 16 12mm d6 in both hands, 20 feels like it's starting to push it. I feel like the limitation is the landing pad for the roll. Even rolling eight, I like to be going into a box or tray of some sort.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, even with 5d6, we have problems @ the kitchen table @ home

btw, when you say "keep n dice" you mean "keep n highest/lowest dice", correct?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay yup

nitsua60

2:49 AM

@Magician That link got me over to your "first impressions" on 13th Age--I like that passing thought you throw out there in the last paragraph of "For the love of d20." Did you ever end up doing anything with that?

Magician

I've tried, and will probably try again! But all I managed were raw ideas that didn't really cohere too well.

There were even rudimentary playtests. Basic idea was that you'd roll a few d20s each round, and assign them to actions, with some abilities requiring specific numbers or ranges.

BESW

This is interesting.

> How We Came to Live Here has been temporarily removed from our catalog as we are in review with Native American consultants to better make this product a respectful and celebrating work instead of an appropriating and exploitative one. (source)

Looks like it's been on hold for at least a year and a half now.

trogdor

huh

nitsua60

@Shalvenay do you think I should re-word it somehow? I used that because it's AnyDice's nomenclature.

@Miniman I think your AL-legality (completely correct) answer could use a line reassuring OP that having charsheet and an accurate logsheet, complete with GM DCI is all they'll need to walk into a store. The question strikes me as mostly worried about making the transition from one table (virtual) to another (meatspace) without getting into trouble.

BESW

3:37 AM

Our #dnd campaign is briefly derailed by making sure that the kobold prostitution ring run out of the castle is voluntary, safe, and legal.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on December 6, 2016 at 3:34 AM

"And make sure our cut is put in a scholarship fund for kobolds looking to better themselves!" cries the paladin, heading through a portal.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on December 6, 2016 at 3:35 AM in reply to UrsulaV

trogdor

why did they even decide there was a kobold prostitution ring?

BESW

I dunno, her previous tweet was about the paladin's daddy issues.

PALADIN: *sob* You've been like a father to me...drunk...vaguely abusive... LORD MARSHALL: Uh...um...well... GM: That got dark. #dnd

Tweeted by UrsulaV on December 6, 2016 at 3:03 AM

trogdor

sheesh

well I guess I am glad I can learn about random things that happened in their games without being part of their group

Miniman

4:04 AM

@nitsua60 From their comment, clearly that is the issue, but the question didn't really mention anything about it. I figured if they asked in the most general form, I should answer in the most general form.

Adeptus

@Magician And I thought Shadowrun used a lot of dice!

BESW

I just can't track down that other game whose whole point was a ton of dice.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Any thoughts on that Monk/Druid question?

trogdor

6:26 AM

@BESW how many dice, if you recall?

BESW

I don't recall exactly. The whole pitch was "ROLL ALL THE DICE!"

trogdor

ah

BESW

6:45 AM

I remember the pitch video had a lot of explosions and ridiculous scenarios.

nitsua60

@Miniman Well, looking at the last line of the question body would have had me add something like "In particular, you need to be sure to maintain a log sheet as described in the Player's Guide; just show this log to the GM if you later bring the character to another game."

@Miniman Hmm... interesting one. (Esp. since OP of the dupe-target says in a comment that the reason they asked was wondering about flurry of blows!) I think either it's a dupe or LegendaryDude's already answered it trivially. I think I'd wait to see if OP shows up and says "that's not what I was asking at all!"

Fibericon

7:58 AM

@Shalvenay I found the relevant info about the animal blood question you asked a while back. You'd need more than a canteen, I'm guessing. A largish animal, like a cow or pig, typically only has five blood points, since blood points are more about the value of the blood than the volume. For reference, this is the same amount as a human child, or half as much as a normal human.

trogdor

9:09 AM

@BESW I had been looking stuff up, but then my internet died out for a bit there

not that I had much sucess anyway

BESW

9:39 AM

Thanks for looking.

trogdor

no problem, I was curious about what you were talking about anyway

but nothing seems to pop up that would quite fit the description

there are plenty of shark games, and even some that use dice, but none that I could find that were RPGs that just had the goal of using as many dice as possible or anything like that

BESW

I think the name had an exclamation point?

trogdor

9:54 AM

well, I found something with an exclamation point, but it doesn't seem to tote lots of dice

yeah its a board game or something, doesn't look like it it's called Get Bit!

seems like it uses a small number of dice, and maybe cards, and pieces to see how much you have been bitten or something

there is also Survive: Escape from Atlantis! which seemed promising, till it turned out to be another board game

no dice in it, it looks like

BESW

This is some obscure little thing that might not even be on DriveThruRPG.

I'm mostly searching the RPG chat transcripts.

trogdor

I am looking at more than that

those were just two things that popped up

BESW

I think it might've had a Kickstarter?

trogdor

Get Bit! was a Kickstarter thing, but it didn't look quite like it was what you were talking about

well, on a slightly unrelated note, Munchkin: Love Shark Baby is apparently an existing expansion XD

BESW

10:11 AM

You should tell Raycia.

trogdor

I will

trogdor

10:22 AM

as silly as it is, when I search for a game with a lot of dice, the first hit I get is a short list of games for beginners that have no dice

nitsua60

12:39 PM

SPAM in the stack! Run for your lives! (Though quickly VtD before running, if you please.)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 That post got deleted as I was trying to flag it. Nice.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener You can't blame yourself--@Miniman cast that vote before you, and I think he's something like eight hours ahead of you =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 I don't mean to say that as a bad thing; I'm pleasantly surprised and amused.

I am regularly impressed by this community's vigilance and swiftness in destroying spam.

nitsua60

I had a similar thing happen to me last night: I was MathJax'ing the table on the recent "what's the mod for a 0 intellegence" question and got an edit-conflict when submitting. I was told my edit wasn't as substantial as the other user's, and got rejected. Our edits were almost verbatim identical, except that as a style-issue I didn't put in all the vertical and horizontal lines the other user did: I just like a single \hline separating the headers from the body =)

(Rather than an \hline after every line.)

BESW

12:55 PM

I semi-regularly have editing conflicts with Greener, SSD, and other prolifics.

And I'm always surprised when I get to flag spam before it goes away unless I'm the first flagger.

doppelgreener

@BESW I gotta tell you, I've been binge-reading a comic called Kill Six Billion Demons and Tʜᴇ Pʀᴏʟɪꜰɪᴄ sounds like one impressive divine title.

BESW

You've mentioned that series before.

doppelgreener

probably a day or two ago.

It got brought to my attention on the weekend and it's superb.

BESW

Ah, no, it was Nox‌.

doppelgreener

1:14 PM

I recommend it. Two different friends told me I just needed to read the first few pages and I'd be hooked, and they were right. (Half an hour later I was many, many, many pages in.)

BESW

I'll give it a shot, but I'm in the middle of one binge with at least two more binges lined up after.

doppelgreener

Excellent.

Binging this comic takes a few hours, but can realistically be done in a day.

Also on a personal note, there are themes Kill Six Billion Demons handles that I love but I'll talk to you about them after you've started reading it.

BESW

That'll have to wait, then.

doppelgreener

In your own time. 👍

BESW

I might be able to re-schedule my upcoming binges, but Veronica Mars will not be put down midway through.

DForck42

1:57 PM

@Powerdork I first joined rpg in 2011, I kinda come and go

DForck42

2:09 PM

also, mornin

Fibericon

Hey all. I found some time to work on my map. Let me know what you think: imgur.com/iXRA1nm

DForck42

@Fibericon neat

doppelgreener

2:26 PM

Can I suggest one of these two approaches for the stairwells in the towers? It seems frankly quite impractical to have a tiny needle of a spiral staircase of 2-foot wide steps in the middle of an expansive 15-foot-wide tower which.

nitsua60

@Fibericon Cool! Optical illusions are gone, outside is clearly some ground-level features. (I assume from context it'd be understood as a snowy outside.) From an architectural standpoint, gotta wonder about having four spiral stairceses...?

(Thassa lotta floorspace dedicated to going up and down.)

Churches I've been where there are many towers often have only one with vertical access, then catwalks or crawl-spaces to traverse among them at upper levels.

Fibericon

Hmm, good point. They're supposed to be towers, but I suppose it would likely have only one or two sets of stairs instead of four.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 The existing floorspace is so narrow I'd be scraping my shoulders against one wall or the other just using it, and it would be one way only. That's a spiral staircase with a diameter of less than 5 feet (incorporating walls and central pillar) which means steps less than 2 feet wide. That's less than the length of an average adult's arms.

Fibericon

And I suppose they could be a lot larger.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener That's... exactly the description of the stone spiral staircase in my Norman chapel's bell-tower =)

(Which I have to go up and down every day.)

doppelgreener

2:29 PM

@nitsua60 Well that's a belltower, not a fortress which has devoted four columns to passage.

nitsua60

NEVERTHELESS!

=D

doppelgreener

[slap]

nitsua60

There are spots where the plaster's worn off and it's structural stone exposed... because my shoulder rubs against the outer wall.

OTOH, it'd be super-easy to defend an attack coming up those stairs.

@Fibericon Remind me what the function--both in-world and as a writer--is for this building?

DForck42

@nitsua60 murder death kill?

nitsua60

@DForck42 So you intend this to be a spot PCs want to get into/through, yet it's really dangerous to do so?

DForck42

2:34 PM

@nitsua60 that sounds like fun

nitsua60

(Oh, wait... you're not the author.)

DForck42

@nitsua60 lol, was waiting for you to figure that out

nitsua60

Just some stranger on the internet who likes killing people. (Nothing to see here, folks... move along.)

=D

DForck42

lol

Fibericon

@nitsua60 It's meant to be an abandoned keep from when the area had a lot of werewolf attacks. The hunters thought they were done and packed up and left about a century ago, but the town now seems to have a werewolf problem again, so the PCs are scavenging for anything that might have been left behind.

What they do have to fight in there are wolf spiders that moved in when the people left.

DForck42

2:36 PM

@Fibericon oooh, lots o' wolf skulls and skulls with teeth marks

nitsua60

@Fibericon So this was a place the villagers would retreat to when the moon was full, or it was "home base" for the troupe of van Helsings?

Fibericon

Home base for the hunters.

nitsua60

(By which, I assume they performed community theater during the three non-threatened weeks each month.)

Fibericon

Oh, absolutely.

Story goes that the town got so used to nothing bad happening that they forgot how to defend themselves, and when someone does get attacked by a werewolf, the only person who remembers the keep is an old guy whose parents told him stories about it.

nitsua60

So the towers confuse me a little--they seem to imply defending against coordinated attack, which is not what I automatically think of when I think of were-infestation. Any chance the keep predates the last wave of weres and hunters, and that the hunters opportunistically took possession of it?

(I.e. the tower's from the last kingdom, repurposed to be the hunters' lodge?)

DForck42

2:40 PM

@nitsua60 ooooh

but yeah, I was thinking that, keeps take a long time to build. how would they build one if they were being attacked every 4th week

doppelgreener

This tower is not designed like a tower for defending against werewolves.

nitsua60

'Cause if the hunters built it, I'd expect:
-living quarters
-kitchen, food storage
-weapon/gear storage and maintenance
-defensive embellishments

DForck42

@nitsua60 especially silver (if they could afford it)

doppelgreener

The very first place inside it is a big ol' open space with nothing in it. There is no purpose for this room being here defensively speaking. People are probably not interested in just inviting the werewolves in for an equal-footing fight if they're specifically retreating here for defence, and they sure would not use the very first ground-level floor the werewolves would bust into for much that's important.

Fibericon

Hmm, okay. So this map layout is essentially not relevant in any way.

nitsua60

2:43 PM

@DForck42 2e's castle guide would say:

DForck42

@nitsua60 heh, neat

nitsua60

@doppelgreener That room is what made me wonder if it's a place for the villagers to retreat to. You could house a lot of people there for a few days, and use the 4 towers to aid defense.

(IOW, if all the people retreat there, then the weres will probably sniff that out and will end up all attacking in a sustained seige. The hunters just have to make sure to keep them out for two or three nights...?)

doppelgreener

@Fibericon Excellent maps spring from considering what the place was made for, who was using it and why and designing it for that purpose -- and then considering who's been using it and what's happened to it since (if it's very old) and applying those layers of history over the top.

Fibericon

The reason it's created this way is actually to favor the players in the encounter with the spiders that moved in. I wasn't actually thinking about defending against werewolves here, because it doesn't come up. But yes, the town itself is largely indefensible. It's like they think they're living in Canada.

doppelgreener

@Fibericon This fortress would make sense if it was built for something else, and then used to defend from werewolf attacks because it's the best they had at the time despite being pretty bad at that.

Or if it was designed by someone who didn't really know how to design fortifications.

nitsua60

2:48 PM

@doppelgreener [ouch]

=)

@Fibericon ah, that's the other half of what I originally asked: what's the narrative purpose, 'cause it'd be good to keep that in mind, too. So now we need a keep that the hunters used as a base against werewolves into which giant spiders have moved, and we want the PCs to be favored when encountering the spiders.

doppelgreener

Consider: Japanese fortresses are built on elevated stone with hard-to-climb slopes, and are surrounded by labyrinthine passageways with low, narrow archways which force soldiers to move through in single file with their heads bowed (which is not only humiliating, but leaves them extremely vulnerable). These archways can often be lifted when they need to be. Only people who are meant to be there know the way through the labyrinth; invaders will get lost, routed, cornered, and slaughtered.

nitsua60

So favoring PCs against spiders: I think low ceilings (to eliminate spiders' advantage from vertical motion) and wide-open spaces (to cut down on parts that can be webbed off.)

Want stone, 'cause someone's going to put a torch to the webs they do see, and we don't want the whole place coming down.

doppelgreener

English fortresses had bridges, portcullises, etc. They frequently made use of staircases and passageways and bridges surrounded by archer keyholes and ledges above that made anyone moving in very exposed, but anyone already there very well concealed.

nitsua60

Those spiral staircases are perfect ambush sites for the spiders. Doesn't mean they need to go, just to be aware of it.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Right, you'd walk up and it'd be hard to see the webs you're walking right into and the spider just 2 feet around the corner.

DForck42

2:53 PM

so then, if there are spiders, then there should be something they've been feeding on

and detritus from that

nitsua60

@DForck42 4e PCs.

DForck42

@nitsua60 heh

nitsua60

@doppelgreener It's funny: in my bell tower--atop this exact tight spiral staircase--we do have a giant spider. (A "spider" is the term for the apparatus we lower from the ceiling and which holds all the bell ropes up and out of the way when not in use.)

Fibericon

@DForck42 Ah, good catch.

doppelgreener

If there's been a century of abandonment, the fortress will almost certainly be collapsing.

nitsua60

2:56 PM

@doppelgreener Depends a lot on the roof(s) and the freeze-thaw cycle, right?

DForck42

@nitsua60 yes

eimyr

@doppelgreener collapsing? Maybe, maybe not. It would definitely not be defensible.

doppelgreener

It will be exposed to the elements, ceilings will have collapsed, wood -- especially untreated -- would be rotting or no longer existent.

Fibericon

@doppelgreener I described it as being in "surprisingly good condition", to leave it open ended. It's an adventure for low level characters, so I didn't want to stick them with too many bad things all at once.

nitsua60

So, @Fibericon, design your keep, then throw a dart at the map: in that spot the roof's been compromised, and deteriorate the tower beneath/around that =)

Fibericon

2:57 PM

@nitsua60 Aw man, but I like this monitor.

nitsua60

@Fibericon Building falling isn't necessarily bad: more escape routes, low cover, &c.

@Fibericon Take one for the team, man?

doppelgreener

@eimyr There would certainly be a large number of stones not where they were originally put. I don't mean the entire fortress would have collapsed, but I would expect a few walls to have significant gaps in them depending on how well the stonework was laid.

DForck42

yeah, it'll add a nice layer of detail

and enterprising pcs might make use of it

say, lure a spider under a weak roof and attempt to collapse it

doppelgreener

I agree, collapsed structures --- perhaps a stairwell tower is now filled with rubble, and you can peer up into its upper reaches or to the outside world if you look up --- adds flavour and makes the place more interesting.

@DForck42 Right! @Fibericon Add some visible support columns in the hall, and some collapsed ones? :D

eimyr

@doppelgreener Agreed. Wooden bits would probably be in much worse condition. I wouldn't trust the water supply either, the cellars might be flooded, chimneys blocked, windows broken and requiring stonemasons, the gate is not there...

doppelgreener

3:01 PM

@eimyr One door into the fortress rotting on the ground off its hinges or leaned against a wall.

eimyr

@Fibericon Consider this: you live in a small village town. You want to build a new fancy house for your family. You can go buy stone from the quarry miles away, you can build it from some other materials or you can grab your brother-in-law with his cart and go to the old abandoned fort which is now a pile of perfectly good evenly shaped stones sitting there doing nothing.

nitsua60

@eimyr this

eimyr

That's how most "ruins" happened.

nitsua60

(Owning a pickup truck, I've been this brother-in-law.)

Fibericon

@eimyr That actually makes a lot of sense with the narrative that they all forgot why they needed that keep in the first place.

doppelgreener

3:03 PM

@eimyr Right, lots of damage to pyramids and other historical artifacts has just been because of people saying "hey guys, what about we use those rocks right there that nobody cares about?"

DForck42

@doppelgreener ...this hurts me...

doppelgreener

And lots of structures simply don't exist anymore because of enough stone being needed.

eimyr

That's also what happens in areas without much through traffic - the crown builds a new road to connect fortresses and decade later the road is not there or so patchy it's even worse than no road at all, but the neighbouring villages have fantastic new pavements.

doppelgreener

@eimyr haha, nice one.

nitsua60

Okay, so there're a lot of ideas flying around. @Fibericon: why don't you summarize your thoughts thus-far?

Fibericon

3:07 PM

@nitsua60 Essentially, the party comes upon a keep in better condition than they'd expected in the hopes of finding some silver weapons to deal with the werewolf, with the massive doors ajar. The doors being like that gives them a chance to peek in and do a perception roll, so they don't get ambushed by the spiders. It's low light in there, since there are no active torches anymore.

DForck42

remind me to come here the next time I'm designing encounters and such...

eimyr

@doppelgreener In Leicester there are ruins of Roman baths - knee high at the tallest spot. Near them one arched structure remains - because it was thought to be a gate offered to Janus. Also, because arches had been difficult to disassemble without the entire town noticing. BUT the nearest church has plenty of Roman brickwork in its walls.

Fibericon

Only two of those towers are actually being used by the plot - the other two I left open to whoever's running it. The ones that are being used are on the upper left and right of that map. One has a trapped metal cabinet with weapons, and the other has a hatch leading to a ladder going down to were they used to store their scrolls. It now has only one scroll of remove curse left.

eimyr

@DForck42 There is a fuzzy area where the deteriorated abandoned warehouse stops being a local eyesore and starts being a cherished piece of antiquated architecture. Think about this the next time you see people clearing an area for new buildings. We do it all the time and our ancestors did it just as well.

Fibericon

One of those unused towers could easily be the collapsed one.

eimyr

3:12 PM

@Fibericon An elderly castellan. He lives in the castle, has no staff, help or resources, and he is given the title out of respect/no one else wants it. "Yeah, there are some spiders in the tower. I don't go there anymore, y'know. But what can you do. Such are the times."

Fibericon

Hypothetically, the PCs never have to go there at all, but you'd be hard pressed to have enough gold to silver everyone's weapons at level 1-3.

doppelgreener

@Fibericon As a player, "cool and flavorful" might be more fun and atmospheric than "surprisingly good condition for no apparent reason". (Unless there's a reason!) So I would encourage it being moderately delapidated and old and decrepit and so on.

I recommend considering if you'd make use of a cellar, because people certainly would've found one useful for storing various food items.

Fibericon

@doppelgreener I was trying to avoid rocks falling, and everyone dying. That's really the main reason for it being there. The cellar is actually where that scroll of remove curse is found.

Wow, I biffed that second sentence horrifically. Let me try that again.

That's really the main reason for it being in good condition.

nitsua60

@Fibericon Oh, man. That cabinet should totally be enmeshed in a few feet of web. If they burn off the web, they burn the cabinet and destroy some of the loot in the process. (he he he)

It gets them past the trap--which will audibly and visibly fire harmlessly as the fire does its thing, but it costs them some of the treasure =)

eimyr

@Fibericon a dilapidated and run down fortress is not necessarily a death trap.

nitsua60

3:20 PM

@eimyr That's actually my school's motto.

(We hired some bad PR consultants.)

Fibericon

@nitsua60 Ah, but that's where the silver weapons are held. Also, it's made out of metal because I figured wood wouldn't be in the best condition at this point.

doppelgreener

@Fibericon Gotcha. I would recommend describing it not as "surprisingly good condition" but "looks stable, but has seen better days". Descriptions would involve dust, mould, cracks, bricks and stones out of place, old cast-aside thingies... aside from the skeletons, webs, bugs, spiders, etc.

@Fibericon Stone chest?

eimyr

@nitsua60 Mine had "Abandon hope, ye who enters" scribbled above the entrance for quite some time.

DForck42

@nitsua60 lol

doppelgreener

nitsua60

3:23 PM

That's ^^ totally a mimic. You should attack that thing for all you're worth.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 LOL

nitsua60

They don't let me in many museums anymore =(

doppelgreener

(Source: Awkward Zombie -- Looks Could Kill)

nitsua60

Medieval hall at the Met: "Oh, God, kids--look at all the animated armors, just sitting there about to attack tourists! We've got to save them!"

Fibericon

@doppelgreener Stone is probably better. That way they can try to smash it to not trigger the trap. Mage hand solves everything, though.

nitsua60

3:29 PM

@Fibericon But mage hand can't attack...?

(he he he)

@Fibericon If you do that they should definitely break some potion bottles in the process.

(And have fun with potion miscibility, DMG p.140!)

Fibericon

It's one of those traps where you reach your hand into the handle and pull, and a poison needle jabs your hand. I actually wasn't planning on giving them any potions, but I suppose I could.

With that table, there's only a 1% chance of anything happening. After all, who's going to lick up the potions mixed with glass after the fighter smashes them?

nitsua60

@Fibericon Potions are nice, because consumables>permanent magic items, IMO.

Fibericon

Wait, what am I saying, these are PCs. Of course they'll lick up the potions.

nitsua60

@Fibericon Srsly. I mean, look at the star board:

yesterday, by Magician

> I licked it, now it's mine. Whenever you invoke someone else's aspect, they loose one free invocation from it.

doppelgreener

@Fibericon What you really need to do is have a trap located 10 feet away from the chest, that activates when someone jabs the chest with a pole.

4

nitsua60

3:34 PM

@doppelgreener That really is excellent, and not just for the yuks. If someone trips the trap at the chest, a block falls to trap them in the room. If they trip the trap from ten feet, they take the hit.

Fibericon

@doppelgreener Oh, I never got to my pride and joy of that keep. The way leading down to the cellar is a ladder with a hatch. The hatch itself isn't trapped in any way, but the ladder is. It has spikes that you can avoid easily if you notice them, but if you don't, you take 1d4, then have to roll a CHA save to have the presence of mind to not let go out of reflex, then fall and take more damage.

nitsua60

@Fibericon Sounds more like a WIS or CON save, to me.

DForck42

@nitsua60 yeah, CHA is a weird save for that

Fibericon

I actually thought about that, but isn't CHA typically used to avoid doing something against your will?

DForck42

@Fibericon sure, but that's usually either a magical or social influence, this is a physical influence

and it's more of having the presence of mind or the physical prowess to not react

nitsua60

3:38 PM

@Fibericon Hmm... not really. Wisdom for suggestion, geas, dominate X, comnmand....

doppelgreener

Charisma is about force of personality.

If this is D&D 5e, I'll quote the SRD:

> A Charisma check might arise when you try to influence or entertain others, when you try to make an impression or tell a convincing lie, or when you are navigating a tricky social situation. The Deception, Intimidation, Performance, and Persuasion skills reflect aptitude in certain kinds of Charisma checks.

Fibericon

Fair enough. I did actually struggle with figuring out what to use for that save, and I think CHA might have won because I don't think it gets enough love.

nitsua60

So resisting a pickup line is CHA; resisting rohypnol is CON, deciding not to go into that sketchy bar is WIS.

doppelgreener

I would go for CON or WIS. Both work well. Constitution is the ability to grin and bear it, Wisdom is the instinct to not let go.

Fibericon

I think WIS is the spirit of what I was going for.

1d4 isn't much damage, but the reflex to let go of a thing hurting you is still there. It's why it's illegal in a lot of places to drive barefoot - something gets between your bare foot and the brake, and you might not actually brake.

doppelgreener

3:41 PM

There've been times I've almost had a mishap but taken a sudden physical manoeuvre to come out of it just fine (like a time I accidentally slipped off a ledge, and before I knew it I'd jumped in such a way as to land on my feet instead of my head). I would attribute the instinct to do that to my WIS and my ability to actually pull it off to my DEX.

nitsua60

There is a little seam here in real-life experience that I think D&D has never quite figured out how to deal with: there are times in life we force our bodies to do something, though the body itself is trying with all its might to not do that. Walking on a broken foot, for instance.

But we don't like to tell a player that they have to pass some test to actually control the character's actions....

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Right; some people would call that constitution, some people would call it sheer force of will or determination, which have no dependence on constitution at all.

nitsua60

So I'm not sure about that trapped ladder. It could just be a spiked ladder. First step is a d4 damage. Surprise! Now, look at the rest of the rungs: same spikes. Player makes the choice whether to push through it or not.

doppelgreener

Question: How do people who use this fortress climb the ladder?

Fibericon

They know where the spikes are. It's easy to avoid them if you see them.

doppelgreener

3:46 PM

Gotcha.

So once they take the spikes for the first time, they can take a careful look to see where they are and take no further harm from the ladder?

Fibericon

Yep.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener The one similar time I've had I attribute directly to divine intervention: a buddy and I were dismantling a building, tossing roof trusses off into a rubbish pile. On one throw a wayward nail from the truss hooked my work-glove, so I followed the truss right off the building. Fifteen feet down onto a pile of broken boards and twisted metal, and not a scratch on me.

No way it was my DEX (0 at best) or WIS (clearly a -4) at play there =)

@Fibericon So what's the narrative purpose of the trap? Just to throw some damage their way?

Fibericon

@nitsua60 What you needed to do was fail that STR save, obviously. Going limp probably saved you.

nitsua60

@Fibericon Dump stat FTW!

Fibericon

Yeah, I thought it was a clever little addition, especially since the cellar isn't essential to the goal of defeating the werewolf.

doppelgreener

3:53 PM

@nitsua60 Whoa. I can see why you'd attribute it to divine intervention.

DForck42

do we know what the largest + to hit is possible in 5e?

nitsua60

In that case, I wonder if the flooring near the hatch might be a little weak? (I mean, structurally it's inherently compromised by dint of putting a hole there, anyway.) Then you can have investigation raise concern about the flooring, or perception hear some creaking as someone STR-checks their way to opening the hatch, maybe a DEX save to avoid taking the fall if the floor crumbles? Then you've also got a spiked ladder to get down. It's easy to avoid if the character takes their
time, but maybe a buddy is lying down there making death saves and you're worried about the time?

@DForck42 +7 proficiency, +5 stat, +3 weapon, maybe another +2 from a fighting style, another +2 magical bonuses to stat... that's probably about it? +19?

Fibericon

@nitsua60 Hey hey hey. See, this is why I came here to get advice on my map.

nitsua60

(@Miniman probably knows off the top of his spiky, red head.)

@Fibericon The problem is... it's being designed a little backward. Adventures have scenes, encounters have goals, then there's the metagame layer of trying to provide fun play across the triad of combat/rp/exploration. Something like what I just wrote might be a nice idea in isolation, but I've no idea how it serves your narrative/structural goals, or your world.

DForck42

@nitsua60 +7 proficiency?

nitsua60

3:58 PM

@DForck42 nmv: +6. I was just going off the top of my head.

Fibericon

Fair enough. I'll take it into consideration.

nitsua60

(I've never actually played a character above L12, so those numbers aren't firmly ensconced.)

DForck42

@nitsua60 I thought proficiency only went to +3? (note, I've only played lower lelvel chars in 5e)

@nitsua60 lol

nitsua60

@DForck42 You should throw onto there some things like bless, guidance, bardic inspiration... if you really pile it on you could probably push +30!

DForck42

a part of me wants to ask on the site, but it's not THAT great of a question

i'm just making a chart on the likelihood of beating an ac based off the bonus to hit

nitsua60

4:01 PM

@DForck42 no, but I'm sure it'd be amazing to see what Miniman comes up with.

Yeah, +30 is looking like it with expected values from 2d4 (bless, guidance) and 1d12 (bardic insp.).

(It's not clear whether multiple instances of bless or guidance could work. Bardic inspiration expressly limits a character to one instance.)

@DForck42 I'd say let hit-bonus range up to +15. Anyone playing something with a bigger hit-bonus should be able to extend your table for themselves.

DForck42

@nitsua60 I dunno bout 5e, but in 3.5 bonuses of the same type didn't stack, while untyped did

nitsua60

@DForck42 Most things in 5e say whether or not it can "stack." There's also a rule that you can't get a bonus from the same source more than once, but it's not clear to me whether two instances of the same spell would trigger that limitation. (I think it does, but would have to double-check some things.)

DForck42

@nitsua60 yeah, unsure

but i'm ago with +15

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 @Fibericon How many skill checks you throw into descending the ladder is proportionate to how interesting it is to zoom in on.

DForck42

4:17 PM

@doppelgreener if it's not THAT important, I'd only do 1

nitsua60

@doppelgreener this ^^ is an excellent way to frame it

DForck42

btw, any of y'all played elemental evil?

doppelgreener

@DForck42 ... the temple of elemental evil?

DForck42

@doppelgreener ummm, whichever the 5e module is called

princes of the apocalypse I think

nitsua60

4:41 PM

@DForck42 yes

Princes of the Apocalypse, that is. (And, tbh, I've played 2e "Temple of Elemental Evil," too.)

DForck42

4:53 PM

@nitsua60 so, the 5e pota book, is SUPER unbalanced

nitsua60

@DForck42 how so? (I just played it, didn't run it.)

DForck42

@nitsua60 well, we're in an area that's "technically" a level above our head

nitsua60

I know our GM had to seriously under-play Ogremoch to avoid TPK....

@DForck42 you're playing, or running?

DForck42

we get into an area, start fighting, a person summons a dragon turtle and skedaddles, we all get hit with it's steam breath, I get dropped (bard), get healed (cleric), then some more fighting, and then THREE TROLLS JOIN THE FIGHT!!!!!

it was a tpk

cept for dm cheese with this magic cube thing that brings us back alive if we make deals

and the dm doesn't balance the encounters himself, just runs them as-is

this is the second tpk of the module so far

nitsua60

@DForck42 I'm pretty sure that magic cube thing is as-written.

@DForck42 Why didn't you run?

DForck42

4:59 PM

@nitsua60 we ended up getting boxed in

nitsua60

Unfortunate.

DForck42

water cultists on one side, trolls on the other

nitsua60

I did put my daughter's bath-duckie in my bag to have a "mini" on hand for summon even-bigger monster in case we ran into that dragon turtle again =)

DForck42

@nitsua60 lol

I also just feel like we get boxed in so much, it's hard to really move and do things

either my bards stuck in the back unable to see anything to cast spells, or he's getting hit in the face

nitsua60

@DForck42 That's tough. Are you playing grid? Sketch? Mind?

DForck42

5:11 PM

@nitsua60 grid

nitsua60

@DForck42 hmm... so presumably GM's reproducing the author's work faithfully.

What do they say about this?

DForck42

@nitsua60 they also agree that it's unbalanced, but don't do anything about it...

but whatever, I AM having fun, just also complaining about things

nitsua60

@DForck42 because they don't want to, don't know how to, think you're enjoying it anyway?

DForck42

@nitsua60 probably they don't have the time

nitsua60

Ah, okay. As long as you and GM are on same ~~page~~ wavelength about "well, this is written pretty tough, but we're all having fun getting through it..."

Gotta run--the bell tolls for me.

DForck42

5:22 PM

@nitsua60 bye

doppelgreener

5:58 PM

DForck42

@doppelgreener lol

DForck42

7:02 PM

boop

trogdor

8:19 PM

@doppelgreener lol

DForck42

8:49 PM

hai

trogdor

9:24 PM

hello

The Oracle

1

Q: Every "Hot Network Post" and Featured post link icon just changed to the 3D Printing stack icon

I'm not sure where the best place to report site bugs are, but this is currently happening:

bug

Miniman

9:54 PM

@DForck42 Ah. This is a familiar problem. The thing is, D&D modules are written room by room. So if your DM believes in the power of hearing, sometimes you're going to end up fighting half the dungeon. (Personally, I tend to ignore hearing in favour of enemies staying in their assigned places, because it makes the game flow a lot better.)

My best advice to you is that you need to be stealthy at all times.

nitsua60

@Miniman Like miniman himself. Did you notice he's been in chat all day, yet never rose to the bait until now? (he he he)

DForck42

@nitsua60 lol

Miniman

Honestly, if your DM believes in realism it might not matter, (hey, those guys haven't reported in!) but there's nothing you can do about that.

DForck42

@Miniman well, he has been playing it like that I think, cause we were in a room JUST next to this room and didn't trigger them attacking, and we were being loud

nitsua60

@DForck42, in the meantime, has been honing his @trogdor impersonation these last few hours. Misdirection's as good as stealth, I suppose....

DForck42

9:56 PM

but this particular encounter stated that if the one guy made it to a particular room, he'd summon the trolls. he made it to the room, and summoned the trolls

Miniman

The other option you have is disguising yourselves as cultists - that's written into the module, and will save you a lot of fights.

Problem is, depending on your DM it might save you from getting any XP, too.

DForck42

@Miniman we talked about doing that at one point, but dropped it for who knows why

trogdor

@nitsua60 eh? what now?

Miniman

@nitsua60 No..

Unless I missed something.

nitsua60

I saw a mostly-dark avatar, a "lol," a "boop," a "hai" an hour later, and another "lol" an hour later... tell me that doesn't sound like @trogdor?

Miniman

9:59 PM

But a magical cube that makes deals with the party for resurrection sounds like the sort of thing it would be hard to miss.

trogdor

@nitsua60 pining you and saying "hai" instead of "hello" or "hi"?

DForck42

@trogdor hai

nitsua60

@Miniman My GM used it also, which makes it seem a super-strange invention for two strangers to both come up with. So I assumed it was written.... Again, I didn't run it, so avoided reading it and so really am talking out my-

trogdor

@DForck42 lol