The Whiteboard

Who knew the level of rubber ducky expertise the site possessed?

Thomas Owens

I do now.

user20683

4:08 AM

"Rubber Ducky..you're the one...you make debugging...lots of fun..."

9:52 AM

@MarkTrapp Thanks!

And thank you everyone :) Eagerly awaiting your first "why the heck did you close my question" Meta post :P

10:39 AM

@S.Robins :) Kudos for trolling the new mod! Flagging one of my old questions right after the election results came in was epic! Question closed, thanks, I've forgotten about it...

11:01 AM

@YannisRizos:hi

@TofeeqAhmad Hey :)

@YannisRizos: congratulations for being a moderator

its great thing

Jae

@YannisRizos: Congrats!

@YannisRizos:would you like to be author of my blog

?

@TofeeqAhmad Thanks :) I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment, didn't actually expect to win...

@TofeeqAhmad I'm already involved in the Programmers community blog, and now that I'm also a mod I don't think I'll have much time. What's your blog about?

@Jae :) Thanks Jae! Did you commit anything on our pet project?

11:05 AM

@YannisRizos:its about android?

actually i just started it

@TofeeqAhmad I have absolutely no idea about android development! I have an android phone, but other than a basic hello world type of app I've never written any code for it

@YannisRizos: ok..can you help me to promote it

?

@TofeeqAhmad How?

if any body other than the Yannis want to be co-author of my blog then welcome

androidtrainningcenter.blogspot.in

@YannisRizos: by referring on your community

Jae

@TofeeqAhmad: This chat room is probably not the best place to promote your blog.

I might try a more "Android-Inclined" site to promote it. Although, I don't think Android.SE will enjoy this too much either.

11:13 AM

@Jae:you right at some extent ..i have to go android communities

thanx you all

@TofeeqAhmad I don't think the community will respond well to a moderator using his position to promote a blog, you'll get me in big trouble.

@YannisRizos: yea i understand.

np

enjoy new responsibilities congrats again

@TofeeqAhmad Thanks :)

I'd just like to add my congratulations on the election results. Well done @YannisRizos and @ThomasOwens.

12:40 PM

@ChrisF Thanks! One of the reasons I went for it was to join a great team... Looking forward to working with you, @MarkTrapp, @JoshK and @ThomasOwens.

1:51 PM

@ThomasOwens @YannisRizos Kudos and you both deserve it

@Ubermensch :)

@YannisRizos :) Can't understand. Is this some sort of symbolic representation

2:19 PM

Emoticon

An emoticon () is a pictorial representation of a facial expression using punctuation marks and letters, usually written to express a person's mood. Emoticons are often used to alert a responder to the tenor or temper of a statement, and can change and improve interpretation of plain text. The word is a portmanteau word of the English words emotion and icon. In web forums, instant messengers and online games, text emoticons are often automatically replaced with small corresponding images, which came to be called emoticons as well. Certain complex character combinations can only be accomp...

user20683

∫_∫

2:55 PM

@MarkTrapp Agree with the comment Democracy is for those who show up. Democracy is what it takes to stand up and speak; democracy is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

@YannisRizos Too much symbolic. Still liked it but i think you missed out the - :-)

List of emoticons

This is a list of notable and commonly used emoticons or textual portrayals of a writer's mood or facial expression in the form of icons. The Western use of emoticons is quite different from Eastern usage, and Internet forums, such as 2channel, typically, show expressions in their own ways. In recent times, graphic representations, both static and animated, have taken the place of traditional emoticons in the form of icons. Western The emoticon in Western style is written most often from left to right as though the head is rotated 90 degrees. Thus, most commonly, one will see the eyes on...

Nose is obsolete :)

@YannisRizos :-))

@YannisRizos Hope I got it

@Ubermensch :P

@YannisRizos (^_-)

@YannisRizos >;]

user20683

4:22 PM

:∫

5:19 PM

I was wondering if anyone remembers a question from a while back where the importance of things like documentation and other good practices was discussed, but someone made the counter argument that some companies rely on a business model of just producing working code, and documentation, design patterns, bug trackers, etc were not part of the process

This is driving me crazy....

6:25 PM

@YannisRizos My fiancee is always doing the nose. She insists that I do the nose too. Drives me nuts.

Q: Found a database password in version control - what do I do?

7:09 PM

3

Today I found what looked to be my supervisor's password in some code in version control. The password is to a database. He is very experienced and has explained before how to avoid having passwords in the source code. If I point it out to him, it will embarrass him. If I point it out and I'm w...

There is possibly a very good and on topic question hidden somewhere in there, but I can't seem to find it :| Suggestions? We could salvage the question and re-open it, the answers are pretty basic and I don't think they will be invalidated by a heroic edit.

@Rachel The question was closed after @Jarrod's edit, so as far as I'm concerned the current version is off topic.

I would have posted a more in-depth answer if it hadn't been closed so fast

And I am still interested in what you should do if you find sensitive data in version control.

@Rachel That's why I'm bringing it up :) It needs some work, but it's salvageable.

user20683

@YannisRizos From a broad standpoint this is an excellent "The Workplace" question

@WorldEngineer True. Which in most cases it means off topic for P.SE

If OP doesn't mind, I'd rather see the question rewritten to say "What do I do when I find sensitive data in our version control?", and approach if from the standpoint of what you can do to remove that data and prevent it from happening again, rather than confronting the person who added the data

7:17 PM

@Rachel - It makes sense, but the answer seems obvious, at first glance.

user20683

@Rachel How do we safely remove sensitive data from version control

user20683

I'd go with that question but yeah it's kind of a trivial thing, go talk to x person. If he would blow up; you really should find a new gig

@Rachel You can leave a comment and suggest how OP could revise the question to make it on topic.

Or, obviously, you can ask a new question :)

user20683

@YannisRizos that Java 8 question seems to be a bad migrate

Or if it's focused on the version control - take it out, change the passwords

7:19 PM

@WorldEngineer Just closed it.

user20683

Hands out cookies all around

Out of curiosity, can you remove something from all versions of version control easily? I've never tried

because you can remove the offending data, but it will still be there in past revisions

user20683

That sounds like a good question right there

As far as I know they all have a way to do this, though nothing prevents a very opinionated source control system from not having that functionality. Or it might be distributed and pretty much "in the wild". In any case, I would think changing the password and taking it out of the current version would be better almost always.

@Rachel mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/…

(for example)

user20683

7:29 PM

@YannisRizos That's a panic button, I think she's looking for a mass purge

user20683

if I read that right

@YannisRizos That pretty much says "Good luck cleaning up your mess"

Stack Overflow Blog: Stack Exchange Keyboard Shortcuts

@Rachel I know :) That's ok for a small mess, but if you are looking for a solution for a bigger mess, then that would be a great on topic question (imho)

Stack Exchange

Posted by Jeff Atwood on February 8th, 2012

Scott Hanselman’s article about keyboard shortcuts and web sites reminded me that I inexplicably forgot to blog about our very own totally awesome set of keyboard shortcuts for Stack Exchange!

While we haven’t yet integrated keyboard shortcuts into the core site, the Stack Exchange Official Keyboard Shortcuts browser script is explicitly supported and actively maintained by us (mostly through the hard work of Ben and Rebecca).

If you’re a website keyboard type of guy or gal, give it a shot. There’s a nice, friendly tag wiki on how to install browser scripts on the Stack Apps scripts tab, but for convenience I’ve included the direct links to install below: …

Still, that's the sort of thing I'd expect to see in the answer. The answer should contain what you should do when you find sensitive data: evaluate if it can be permanently deleted from the repository. If not, evaluate if the repository is secured. If still no, then change passwords. In addition, it should contain data about approaching the person who made the mistake in the first place and resolving it, and possibly a reminder to the team about not storing sensitive data in the repository.

7:33 PM

@Rachel I get that, but that's not what OP was after...

the whole "should I talk to my boss about it" thingy

@Rachel but you seem to have a good question, why not just ask it?

it's perfectly fine to answer your own question

I guess I can relate to questions like that because I'm still a fairly new programmer myself and can understand being new to programming and to team dynamics and having questions like that

@YannisRizos And I want to give him a chance to edit his question first. It's not nice to just steal someone's question and re-post a better version of it for rep.

@Rachel Well post a comment to the question then :) You can link to this discussion and help him get a better idea of how to revise the question

@YannisRizos Ok :)

@YannisRizos Btw, I like the fact you brought up a moderator flag in chat. I wish more moderators did that if they weren't 100% sure on things

@YannisRizos I guess I see where its off topic - but I think we're in the middle of a grey area with it.

The original question was surely off topic - I was half and half on whether to vote to close even after my edit.

@Rachel I was a bit unsure about that, to be honest... But it was a reopen flag, we all love those, and I thought you wouldn't mind.

7:40 PM

I've always thought if the answer was useful to more than one programmer (and not one of the 'what kind of pickles are best for programmers), it should be on topic. Afterall, our site name is programmers.se, not programming.se

@YannisRizos I've been hanging out in dba.se chat most of the day, and they do that kind of thing

@Rachel Well, avoided that discussion as a user, will certainly avoid as a mod :)

I was thinking of suggesting mods do that in meta, but figured I'd give it some time since I don't think Mark wants to see more meta suggestions from me for a while :)

And I dont want to tell mods how to do their job...

Pft I should have ran for a mod position. I regret not doing it, but maybe another time :)

@Rachel Next year :)

@Rachel I was thinking we could create a reopen chat room (it's a bit vague, I'll bring it up on meta when I have some time to think it through). But on SO they have created a "please close this" culture in chat and I don't want that migrating here - not criticizing them, just don't want it here

@YannisRizos They have that because there are so many questions that users feel should be closed, but aren't. Here there are many questions users should feel are open, but aren't, so you're going to see more of that talk in chat

I was just thinking it'd be nice to see some of the edge cases come up in chat so people can argue for/against something rather than just closing it outright. Its so hard to get 5 reopen votes as opposed to 5 (or 1 mod) close vote

7:47 PM

@Rachel - ping us moderators into chat if you think there's something that needs our attention. I can't guarantee that I'll be able to act straight away (a little think called work!) but it's probably a little less formal that flagging or a meta post.

@Rachel Might defer some of the epic comment chats that take place too

@Rachel There are quite a few people that raise objections for closed questions, but only a small subset of those that actually step up and improve questions.

We could be reopening questions all the time, if people spent their time improving them instead of Meta whining...

3

@YannisRizos - Some of them I don't think need improvement. And therefore it can be hard to know what an "improvement" would be. Especially when Mark closes them...

@psr I think I'll quickly replace Mark in that sentence...

.....yeah

7:54 PM

So I've largely avoided edits. Perhaps this is part of why others don't as well. And "whining" is a pejorative and inappropriate term. Sometimes It's only "whining" because they don't have the authority to carry the day.

@YannisRizos - I hope not.

See why can't we keep around some of the good "list" questions like SO did? Just look at the number of upvotes and favorites on this question: stackoverflow.com/q/194812/302677

@psr You should always try and edit first - sometimes a question is unsalvageable from the beginning but I've managed to turn a question around and save it from being closed before. It just takes some effort.

@Rachel That is not a bad idea. You can suggest it on Meta, and see if the community likes it...

@psr Although even then, there's no guarantee you can get it into an On-Topic state.

@psr You have the ability to edit. You have the ability to close. You have the ability to re-open. If you see a problem and take no action apart from asserting that someone else should deal with it, then that is whining - failing to use what authority you have been given because you feel it is insufficient.

7:58 PM

@psr Sometimes yes, but others it's just plain whining... Sorry if you find that inappropriate, it's just my opinion and you can ignore it at will :)

@Jarrod - In practice on-topic means "won't be closed by the closing process". Which comes down to knowing what people will close. And if there isn't some consistency in that it's hard to edit. This is the biggest problem when you can't tell why something was closed in the first place, which does happen (I agree with most, understand most of the rest).

P.SE concerns itself with subjective material. Yes, we have guidelines determining what is on topic for this site but when dealing with the subjective it truly is open to each persons interpretation. We aren't as cut and dried as S.O. because they can more objective about what constitutes a proper question.

@psr If you see a question closed and see no reason for it to be, state that and vote to re-open it. There need only be four others - or a moderator - convinced by your argument for it to be reinstated.

Anyone know the query string to return a list of only closed questions?

@Rachel closed:1

8:05 PM

closed:1

@Shog9 - I have a pretty high number of reopen votes. But it's pretty hard to pull 5 in time. Also, sometimes reasons are given but make no sense at all to me.

@psr And we can't always know "what people will close" - it only takes 3000 rep to issue a close vote; We have 256 users w/ vote to close powers - each with their own interpretation of what constitutes an on-topic question.

What about a query string for closed, but with some current re-open votes?

@psr I don't think you can search for that. You need access to the 10K tools to see questions will reopen votes

@Jarrod - Yes, to some degree it's just the nature of the site.

8:08 PM

@ChrisF You could write a query on data.stackexchange.com to look that up, technically

@YannisRizos @Shog9 I'm not sure what you mean.... I'm talking about the p.stackexchange/questions?closed=1 type of querystring (which doesn't work)

@psr There are at least a half-dozen regulars here who could probably either help you understand, or help you re-open closed questions... But the first step should always be to state your reasoning for not closing a question in the comments on it.

@Rachel programmers.stackexchange.com/search

It's a search operator

@Jarrod True - but that would be a month out of date at best. I assume @psr is after current questions that could be improved and re-opened

@Rachel : not =

@ChrisF Is the data site always that far behind??

8:10 PM

@ChrisF - I can see how many reopen votes have been cast when I look at a question. I think that came at 3,000 rep. I don't know if I can query it though.

@Jarrod Yep, always at least a month.

@psr I don't think you can. It's in the 10K tools though.

@Rachel Like this. BTW: you might also be interested in questions that are not yet closed, but have votes

@Rachel - use the /review page. It shows you all sorts of stuff, first questions, late answers, low quality posts, and close votes. Use the page to edit stuff into shape, vote to close, or flag stuff up for us mods to deal with. It's all good.

@Jarrod Two months, they switched to bimonthly updates recently... Right now the data are fairly recent.

@YannisRizos Gotcha.

8:18 PM

@Shog9 thanks, I had no idea there was a search page like that lol

@ChrisF I'd love to, but honestly I don't have the time to do that kind of stuff, which was why I didn't run as a mod in the first place

@Rachel Well just visit it for 10 minutes at lunchtime. Find one question to improve a day. As the tag line for one of the big UK supermarkets goes "every little helps"

@YannisRizos You're to blame for this.... meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/q/3086/1130

@ChrisF I'm trying to participate more. I usually do stuff during my breaks at work, but I have trouble stopping doing stuff to get back to work :)

@Rachel Tell me about it :)

@Rachel :) Let's see what everyone else thinks about it

@YannisRizos That's part of the problem. People sit around and do nothing until they see what the popular answer is, and then just fall in line. The problem is, meta is full of our more active users who haven't gotten sick of this site yet, so you get a skewed point of view there. Don't be afraid to make an opinion and stick up for it!

If someone has a good argument against your opinion, it's not a bad thing to change your mind, but until then at least make your own opinion :)

8:26 PM

yesterday, by Mark Trapp

Democracy is for those who show up

Hey I disagree with that. Look at US politics. Democracy is for those who have the time to dedicate to it

And often it's too hard to find time in the midst of work, family life, etc

@Rachel Still, some of us make time. Why are we part of the problem?

Not you as a person, but your attitude is part of the problem :p

People wait to see what others will do, then go with it.

Nobody wants to start drama, or bring up topics that are uncomfortable

(Except apparently me) :)

@Rachel Maybe because those topics aren't uncomfortable per se, but irrelevant?

Out of the blue thought of (fairly pointless) possible way to salvage the apparently un-salvageable rubber ducky question. "Is there any research showing what form of rubber ducky or other type of imaginary person is the most effective as a problem solving aid?". Might be more of a cognitive psychology question. But a useful answer is conceivable.

8:32 PM

@psr Can you provide the link? I was looking for that question earlier

You, me (until yesterday) and quite a few others are quite active on meta... I don't think we all agree with each other on everything, but the system appears to be working...

@Rachel - Was (justly) deleted and I don't have rep to see it. Asked where to get a good rubber ducky for rubber duck debugging.

I think most of the drama comes from people who want to vent a bit, and not seriously thinking there is an actual problem...

@psr Mod's can undelete them and leave them closed so we could see it

I was thinking perhaps if it was reword to ask what rubber duck-ing means it might be on topic

I remember that question and the answers

@Rachel - I think the question contained a link to the definition. It was about finding the actual ducky.

"It" meaning the question, not the link.

8:36 PM

@YannisRizos I agree, a lot of it is just people venting. I'm not too sure what topic we're talking about now though, so I can't give you my opinion on it :)

But I still think there are problems with P.SE that need fixed

@Rachel programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/134028/revisions Question reopened 30something seconds after a good edit... No drama no nothing. I didn't even left a comment when I closed it, @Craige stepped up and all is good now.

@YannisRizos <pat on back />

@YannisRizos Bravo, sir.

@Rachel - I can't stress enough that a question will be considered for reopening if flagged, and an edited question will have a far better chance than one that hasn't been touched.

@Rachel Just wanted to show that I'm not just saying the system works :P Close votes are just a peer review mechanism. We shouldn't be afraid to close... Especially if it leads to (even minor) improvements.

Q: where can I ask a "how to get started" question on StackExchange site with respect to Technology?

9:01 PM

0

What I mean is for questions like: "How do I get started with Python?" "How do I get started with OOP Concepts?" and a bunch of similar questions.. where can I post such questions?

discussion support questions asking-questions site-faq

Programmers? What do you think? I say... no.

Did he already ask google? :)

I'd be inclined to agree with you there. Too subjective - what works for me, might not work for you (for example).

@ChrisF We have some learning questions, but most of them are really bad...

And I just don't see a question titled "How do I get started with OOP Concepts?" being one of the good ones...

@YannisRizos Now if he was stuck on a particular aspect...

@ChrisF Argh! There's a comment suggesting P.SE already...

@ChrisF Yeap, that'd be perfectly fine

9:06 PM

@YannisRizos haha there's two of them

PersonalNexus

@YannisRizos Yep, that was me :)

@ChrisF Way to be fast with that.

@PersonalNexus @Rachel If OP comes here and his questions get closed asap, I'll be directing all his rage to you two :P

PersonalNexus

@YannisRizos I actually thought our comment was quite helpful. Of course "How do I get started with X" is too broad for Programmers, but as we both said, coming here with questions on specific issues after some initial research elsewhere should be fine. Should it not?

@PersonalNexus Don't worry about it. Both comments are just fine, if OP fails to follow through your suggestions on doing some research first, not your fault.

9:17 PM

@PersonalNexus I agree with that :)