The Pitstop

@Zaid They also have new ECU's made by Magneti Marelli. They can program them but they don't get to design the base ECU. It's for cost controls. So an additional problem is that they are all trying to figure out the new ECU. In Barcelona they were spinning their rear wheels down the back straight in 6th gear. ALL of the teams.

Zaid

DucatiKiller

Yes!

Zaid

@DucatiKiller do you think this a Magnetic Marelli issue or a regulatory issue?

@DucatiKiller love that schematic. We saw that in a PM Fundamentals course

And it describes the situation adequately

DucatiKiller

3:02 AM

I think it's an experience issue for the teams using the new ECU, Michelin with the tires and the FIM with creating a usable framework for everyone. Dorna, the rights holder, is good though. They will have changes for next year that actually make sense unlike how F1 works.

Zaid

They need to test the ECU more extensively before releasing it out in the wild

DucatiKiller

Agreed. They did have fair use of it for the smaller teams for two seasons prior to release and Dorna paid them to do it. A lot of people thought it wasn't long enough.

Zaid

The big problem I can foresee with that is the FIA wants to limit how much testing a team can perform

DucatiKiller

'Those people', shockingly, are the major manufacturers....who are winning but not by the same margins that they were before.

Zaid

Oligarch mentality?

DucatiKiller

3:05 AM

Yes, FIM is the same. Limit testing to keep costs down but obviously that translates into more failures and in racing, increased risk of injury.

It's the standard issue failure loop.

Zaid

Clearly someone's not thinking big picture here

It doesn't help anyone to have crappy ECUs and tires

Not Lorenzo for sure

DucatiKiller

Honda tries to be Putin but their threats to leave if the standard ECU was implemented makes them a paper tiger now. They don't follow through on their threats and now everyone understands the game. They just lost a lot of credibility this year. That being said, they just secured the Championship this last weekend in Japan.

The crappy ECU's are apart of their cost reduction program. Honda, it's claimed, had over 50 software developers working on their ECU before the standard came out.

Zaid

Wow, that's bigger than most Silicon Valley startups (I imagine)

DucatiKiller

There's a claim out there that Red Bull has over 1000 full time engineers. It seems too huge but.......it's F1 and ostentatious is F1's middle name.

Zaid

If you're talking about the whole setup then yes. But 50 software developers sounds like a lot

DucatiKiller

3:14 AM

Indeed. I'd like to get a citation for that one. It seems huge.....but Honda is soooo tightlipped. They won't release how many team members they have for the F1 effort with McLaren.

Zaid

Where I work there is an intense focus on doing what the customer needs, not what we think they need

DucatiKiller

Sounds refreshing

Zaid

It involves a lot of validation cycles

In the context of MotoGP or F1 the fans are the customers

DucatiKiller

Yes! I'll vote for you when you run for President of the FIA!

Zaid

This cost-cutting business needs to be rethought IMO. I know the regs are trying to level the playing field but is it really serving the purpose?

Teams will find a way to bypass rules

DucatiKiller

3:19 AM

I"m pretty happy with Dorna in regards to MotoGP. They really try. The FIA, on the other hand, they seem to exist to insert ignorance into the decision making process.

Zaid

I came across a nice parable a while back

DucatiKiller

Ducati, like Braun with Button, have a way of finding the rules holes. They implemented wings in MotoGP this year but Dorna crushed it for 2017.

Share the parable :-)

Zaid

It goes: "The customer doesn't need a drill machine. They need a hole in the wall"

DucatiKiller

That's beautiful

When your a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

@Zaid I just ran into a Senna documentary that I haven't seen

Ayrton Senna: Unauthorized & Complete Life Story Full HD

►

It's pretty good

Zaid

@DucatiKiller looks interesting. I'm watching Finnegan atm

Finnegan's Garage Ep 21: The Dragboat is going to SEMA 2016 and an Update on the C10

►

@DucatiKiller you should check out the "profile gauge" tool starting around 3:25

DucatiKiller

3:33 AM

I will.

@Zaid One of these?

Profile gauge

A profile gauge or contour gauge is a tool for recording the cross-sectional shape of a surface. Contour gauges consist of a set of steel or plastic pins that are set tightly against one another in a frame which keeps them in the same plane and parallel while allowing them to move independently, perpendicularly to the frame. When pressed against an object, the pins conform to the object. The gauge can then be used to draw the profile or to copy it on to another surface. == Applications == Profile gauges are used widely in metalworking and woodworking. In architectural conservation, they are used...

Zaid

Yup

Never ceases to amaze me how a simple invention like that can make life so much easier

DucatiKiller

I"ve seen them but haven't used them to actually accomplish something

I wonder if @JonathanMusso has used one.....

Rory Alsop

7:10 AM

I haven't used one on anything to do with a car but have a fair bit in woodworking

Incredibly useful

Myself

Hi @RoryAlsop, how are things?

Zaid

7:39 AM

Hi @Myself

Myself

Hi @Zaid, everything fine?

Zaid

Yessir

On my way to work

Slept in

Myself

It happens :)

I have a time account at work, quite happy about it

Zaid

We have something similar. It's called "as-long-as-the-job-gets-done" :)

Myself

I need to talk to my boss

:)

Rory Alsop

8:05 AM

Morning @Myself - just sitting in an airport lounge waiting to fly south

Myself

@RoryAlsop Business or holiday?

Rory Alsop

8:52 AM

Business, but fun business. 10th anniversary of the founding of the Institute of Information Security Professionals, so big gala dinner on tonight for founder members

Later in the week is a Berlin trip for another organisation in the same industry, the ISF :-)

Myself

9:09 AM

Congratulations, I never paid much attention to those organizations. I guess I need to correct that

I take it most members come from academia, big companies and consulting?

Myself

11:29 AM

@Zaid if you want to practice German: autoschrauber.de

Very interesting, but heavy on jargon

Zaid

Starter kaputt... hey I understand that!

Myself

I tried google translate but I had to stop to keep some sanity

Zaid

I don't know German.. but that won't stop me from trying

Myself

I thought you once indicated something in that direction. Oops: false memory

Zaid

Let me try... just need a few pointers from you

An der werkbank = about the workshop ?

Myself

11:43 AM

workbench

on the workbench

Zaid

Ok

Frische, Anlasser, Schrottkübel ?

Myself

Frische=fresh, Anlasser=starter, Schrottkübel= <derogatory> car ready for scraping

sorry: "schrottkübel" in this context: scrapbin

Zaid

Anlasser and starter are interchangeable?

Myself

yes

It is a bit difficult since there is a lot of slang and insider acronyms

Zaid

So I think they're talking about some new technology by Ritzel that allows starters from scrapped vehicles to be tested and potentially reconditioned

Myself

11:51 AM

Actually it is about the reconditioning of a starter. The "ritzel" is the gear that hops out and cranks (?) at the flywheel

Zaid

12:17 PM

There you have it... I don't know German :)

Kaput exists in English though

anonymous2

Exists in French too.

Myself

@Zaid you are hereby proven to be not guilty :)

Bob Cross

A million years ago, I got into a slap fight with Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky over the direction and tone of this site. As we've graduated, I am declaring victory. :-)

6

16

Q: Making a site for professionals

There are already a million places on the internet where you can type simple car maintenance questions and get a bunch of teenagers telling you some random nonsense that they have no reason to know the answer to (Yahoo!Answers anyone?) If we fill up the private beta with questions like How do ...

anonymous2

Great share! Talk about mod talk, though, every second name seems to have a ♦ beside it.

:)

Lynn Crumbling

And you have the right to declare victory :)

Myself

12:32 PM

I understand that those two guys to be pretty prominent? Are they still active or did they got more in the background?

Lynn Crumbling

Joel still works with Stack Exchange; Jeff left and is doing other things.

Bob Cross

@Myself in those days, they were the co-owners of the whole mess. In those days, I certainly didn't have a diamond next to my name. It was a bit of a thing for me to say "hey, don't be such a jerk!"

Lynn Crumbling

Indeed. You were talking to the inventors of the hottest up and coming programming website at the time!

Stack Overflow quickly rose to rank #1 on google (worst case #3) for nearly any development search I made...

Myself

anonymous2

@LynnCrumbling, Google also follows the sites you tend to click, so if you tend to prefer stackoverflow, you'll tend to get it as well.

@Myself If everything is coming your way, you're probably in the wrong lane.

Myself

12:43 PM

How does SO makes money? Just by placing ads?

anonymous2

They must surely take a small commission off of SO jobs?

@Myself, meta.stackexchange.com/questions/55790/…

209

Q: What is Stack Overflow's business model?

I once answered a question that asked how Stack Overflow makes money, but that was before the time of VC. Now, Stack Overflow has cash, and they have an ever-growing list of employees, but where's the business model? The Experts-Exchange team took the time to answer its own Q&A about its site (...

discussion stackexchange business business-model

Myself

Ok, got it

Nick C

1:02 PM

@BobCross I think Mark Johnson's answer was also spot on:

"Instead of "somebody who repairs vehicles for a living", I think we want "somebody who repairs vehicles". An enthusiast for Make X, Model Y, Year Z who works on their own vehicle. Who rarely, if ever, takes it to a shop for anything. Who, when faced with a good description of a common problem, will tell you exactly what's wrong and what the fix is. Maybe they make their living as a mechanic. If they don't, though, I think their input is just as valuable as somebody who does."

That pretty much sums up what the site has become, and I think it works really well

Myself

I agree

anonymous2

Myself as well. ;)

Zaid

@BobCross we ought to reach out to some of those disgruntled pioneers. The Iszi's and John Gardenier's, let them know that we prevailed

anonymous2

@Zaid I don't know, it might be best just to let it RIP.

Zaid

Why?

anonymous2

1:14 PM

If they really care, they'll know already. If not, there's not a lot of benefit to be derived from rubbing it in...

But that's just my opinion.

Zaid

I want to notify them so that they can contribute to the site again. They voiced their disapproval about what Jeff and Joel were proposing

18

A: Making a site for professionals

So, after waiting quite a few months for the site to open on the premise that it is for mechanics and DIY enthusiast owners of cars, trucks, and motorcycles. You now want to take advantage of our patience and long term commitment and change the site to something that will actually exclude...

anonymous2

Oh, sure. I've got you now. :)

Robert S. Barnes

rockauto discount code 5249433846623574 good till Dec. 18th

2

Zaid

92

Q: Let's Plan The Second Iteration Of The Stack Exchange Quality Project!

In case you missed the first one, check out the se-quality-project tag. The quality project isn't one that we plan to ever finish, it's perennial and kicks in every 18 months or so after we've had ample opportunity to observe the efficacy of our previous efforts, changes in how people use our sit...

discussion featured se-quality-project

Do we have any quality concerns as a group?

I wanted to complain about the Android app but someone else already did that

Myself

1:31 PM

I saw some glitches when working with a picture on an answer

But nothing exceptionally bad

Zaid

@Myself I don't think they're asking about instances of bugs in this post. More about user experience and the big picture. They're asking how they can improve

Myself

@Zaid Doh!

Jason C

2:55 PM

Good luck those of you running for mod

Zaid

@JasonC where have you been??

Jason C

@Zaid Insanely busy.

Zaid

Let me guess... battling your Prelude timing belt? ;)

Jason C

Ha, I wish, that would be a vacation, from things like the 8 freakin' hour conference call / TeamViewer session I was on yesterday. Still haven't gotten around to that timing belt.

Which actually reminds me, I f'd up my car in a mildly amusing way. Woo hoo it's vague troubleshooting question time!

Because who hides railroad ties in 12" high grass, am I right?

Myself

ouch!

Jason C

3:04 PM

My exhaust pipe's got a nice, fancy wood veneer on it now.

Zaid

@JasonC I think the more pressing question is who drives in 12" tall grass?

Myself

and also interesting: on what occasion?

Jason C

@Zaid Silence!

It's possible that I have a problem, lol.

Like that time I bent the control arm doing donuts and clearing weeds in a field, while dodging my friend doing the same in her pickup truck.

Incidentally, the Prelude, not a good weed-clearer.

Anyways this one was pretty innocent, I just pulled over to park off the side of a dirt road to drop something off at a friend's place, and wasn't thinking.

And I'm not even sure if it's the reason for the problems I'm having now.

Zaid

@JasonC yes, that's what you get when you you damage your silencer. The "r" falls off and you're left with silence

Jason C

Lol

anonymous2

3:14 PM

Hi @JasonC, been a while since I've seen you around.

Could be just because we tend to be on at different times.

Jason C

No I haven't been here in a while.

I'm transitioning "between" "two" "careers" (read: "away from" "one" "temporary-job-that-lasted-10-years") so been really busy tying up loose ends and training people.

anonymous2

Sounds neat. What are you moving into?

Jason C

... yeah so let's also quote "transitioning".

anonymous2

Lol, gotcha.

Jason C

I've got 6 months of savings to find out. Ideally away from programming and into project management. Actually my next move once things settle down will be to apply for a job at SE. They've got product management positions opening up all the time and their HQ is a 15 minute train ride from my apartment. So that'd be nice.

What keywords can I add to a Google search to increase the chances of finding a picture of a car from underneath (real or service diagram), like while it's up on a lift, do you guys have any tricks?

"undercarriage", "from bottom", "underneath", + "diagram" to all of those, no luck.

anonymous2

3:23 PM

underside car?

Jason C

Getting warmer, nice.

anonymous2

Bottom of car show some things too...

Nick C

chassis? undercarriage?

anonymous2

Or under car...

Nick C

Old Haynes manuals always user to have such a photo of the car they described

anonymous2

3:28 PM

@NickC He tried undercarriage already, and chassis give just the body...

Jason C

3:42 PM

Yeah I ended up having no luck. Lots of info pollution too.

I might have a pic in my service manual I just was lazy.

anonymous2

@JasonC, are you looking for a particular car?

Jason C

Yeah, a 2001 (or 5th gen, or BB6) Honda Prelude SH.

I'm not sure if the base model exhaust routing is the same.

anonymous2

-12

Q: How to find if a suspicious account down-votes your posts

This post targets infrequent unreasonable down-votes that are received after a critical comment of you or a down-vote that you explicitly said it's yours, only. To be honest, it goes on my nerves if someone down-votes my questions / answers with no reason even more when it is posted within a r...

discussion down-votes

Seriously?!

Myself

Jason C

@Myself Well how about that. Looks about right. And hey thanks.

Myself

3:53 PM

you just need to tell google what you want: "prelude exhaust" :)

Jason C

Oh right. I guess I should learn to be more straightforward with Google these days, lol.

Myself

On a side note: I find it scary that Google just told me that it will take longer than usual to get home?..

..that brings me to the following conclusions:

1. Google knows that is is time to go home

2. Google knows where I live

3. Google knows how I get home

Albeit it was often stated it is quite a reminder of Google's power

Jason C

@anonymous2 Meh. People whine a lot about that thing that's not unusual. The real "seriously?!" there should go to the comment conversation under Oded's answer, lol.

@Myself Yeah that's just creepy.

anonymous2

@JasonC Yes, that's kind of what I was looking at.

Jason C

I turned off my search history on Google Maps on my phone a while ago for that reason. Which, btw, super annoying that your only options are 1) public search history or 2) no search history.

They don't have an option of just storing it locally on the phone like normal people do.

Myself

4:08 PM

Frankly, it creeps me when I see my search history

Jason C

I've got some doozies in my web search history, lol. I blame it on having weird friends. But it's probably my fault.

anonymous2

Watch out, if you're using Chrome, Google is monitoring this conversation. ;-)

Myself

I configured my browser to delete everything when I close him

Nah, opera in da house

Jason C

"How do I pee blue?", "Zombie porn", and "How to blow up a horse" top my list of recent favorites, lol.

Incidentally:

Is that not a hilarious ad choice?

Worst date ever.

Bob Cross

4:32 PM

@anonymous2 I like the comment discussion that the OP has with Oded. It reminds me of similar back and forths that have happened here.

agent provocateur

@DucatiKiller like. vacuum related tests or feeding things into the intake or that type of stuff

DucatiKiller

4:50 PM

@agentprovocateur It's typically very easy to access and remove. As well, it has a larger diameter, so if you wanted to feed seafoam into it, it would be easier.

PeteCon

@Myself When Google starts telling you what's for Dinner... that's when you get concerned!

anonymous2

5:55 PM

@BobCross, I liked your old profile photo better. It looked more like you.

:)

Move More Comments Link To Top

@Myself You can turn all that off if you like. :)

@PeteCon That depends, do I like it, and is it waiting on my when I get home.....

Bob Cross

6:16 PM

@anonymous2 yeah my hair hasn't been brown for quite a long time

anonymous2

@PeteCon Even worse is when it starts telling you what your neighbour is having for dinner.

Jason C

6:40 PM

@anonymous2 Just follow them on Facebook, lol.

@MoveMoreCommentsLinkToTop I'm telling you, drones are the future. They'll solve all the problems.

anonymous2

@JasonC If they get past local regulations, that is.

Jason C

It's only a matter of time.

anonymous2

But they will. Give it enough time and all the governments will pass them.

Jason C

Plus it's no problem right now to have one in your house that cooks you dinner.

Changes the cat litter. Plays with the cats. Cleans the house. Folds the clothes. Gets the beer out of the fridge. Oh man. All the problems.

Brushes your teeth in the AM without you even getting out of bed, Jetson's style.

anonymous2

One problem it won't solve.

Politicians.

Jason C

6:45 PM

I'm pretty sure drones can turn the TV off, lol.

anonymous2

Trouble is, people would keep turning it back on. :)

No matter how bad the politicians are, people still want to know what they're up to... funny how it works, eh?

Jason C

Not if they don't have hands. Another drone-solvable problem.

anonymous2

Oh, please.

Jason C

Lol

anonymous2

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that total equality cannot exist.

Good thing there aren't downvotes on chat messages: I have a feeling I would have gotten some from a few Americans out there.

Jason C

6:48 PM

I doubt it.

That's a pretty obvious statement. I dunno why people always blow their own minds when they say things like it, heh.

anonymous2

Albeit, I still hold to it as fact. When it all comes down to it, you cannot have perfect equality.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Ask @JasonC about what can happen ...

And I'm teasing. This is supposed to be a chat for Mech.SE, though, and not CSpan3

Jason C

I'm a little lost but that's OK.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

It's okay. I was half asleep.

Jason C

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Doesn't change to CSpan3 chat until there's more than, say, two or three messages about it. Just get here? :P

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

6:50 PM

Haha! Nice.

You doing well?

Jason C

Anyways point being, I'm hungry, and Google drones aren't making me dinner yet.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Those bastages!

anonymous2

Here we go again...

Zaid

@BobCross glad that you dyed them. You must feel younger :)

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm only on for a minute until I need to move the vanpool van. Then I lose reception until I'm on the road.

Jason C

6:52 PM

... I'm telling you, drones are the future. They'll solve all the problems.

(@anonymous2 MWAHAHAHA)

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Do they solve the sky pollution problem? If I don't want to see them cluttering the skies, how does that solve anything? :o)

anonymous2

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 You work on stackexchange while you're driving?

Jason C

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 You couldn't see them if you didn't have eyes. Another drone-solvable problem.

anonymous2

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 You can have a drone that will be always above your head that will hold a screen that will make you think you see the sky and clouds and stars, etc.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm working on that ... if I'm mod, I have to be on here 24/7, right :o)

Jason C

6:54 PM

Wrong.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@anonymous2 yah, that'd work ...

anonymous2

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Wrong, if you have a drone to mod for you.

Jason C

But you do have to get the workload done. And remember that the site evolves on its own. :P

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2