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01:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

01:29
@JasonSalaz are you panicking as much as I am yet? Election jitters, and we're not even 48 hours into the nomination period yet!
 
2 hours later…
03:00
@KyleCronin What was the first question on Ask Different? And where would I go to find that kind of information? Firsts for an SE site.
So what about these?
those would be questions asked elsewhere on the network (mostly Super User) that have been migrated over
Ah.
yeah, stuff that was created before AD existed
 
2 hours later…
05:11
@KyleCronin Ok, I wasn't sure if that was the first question.
@Daniel I had that for quite a while after I posted my nomination too. Each successive day is quite exciting.
dear god
I thought my wall of text on Ask Different was big, the Ask Ubuntu nomination proposals are HUGE
@JasonSalaz I was looking at them. Wow!
Are you an AU user Jason?
no
Of the linux distributions I've actually used, Ubuntu ranks among the lowest. (Not preference, just actual working experience.)
They're one nomination away from needing a primary
05:21
I have mainly used Ubuntu
And got pretty proficient at using it.
But, then I stopped messing around with other OSes
 
1 hour later…
06:28
@JasonSalaz long nomination bios just seem desperate to me
the shorter, the better
and, IMHO, people spending lots of time explaining why they love X or why they're an expert in X is missing the point
06:56
(where X is the subject of the site, not the site itself)
Hello @KyleCronin, does "larynx spatter" make sense to you?
not really, should it?
I'm trying to translate a sentence to English, that's why I'm asking.
do they make sense each word alone? could you please tell me how to make the term?
well larynx is part of your throat involved with creating speech, and spatter is tiny bits of projected liquid (or solid)
so "larynx spatter" might mean stuff that came out of your throat (such as when coughing) but I haven't heard that phrase used before
07:11
Yeah, right. so it's grammatically correct?
grammatically, sure
Thanks a lot Kyle , sorry for being off-topic!
 
3 hours later…
10:20
hey guys
does anyone know if an ipod shuffle comes with the same earbuds as iphone's earbuds?
My iPhone's gone bad yesterday. I really liked it, and just for $20 more I could get an earbuds and an ipod shuffle. I was thinking to get that since I jog quite a bit and has been using an iphone all this time (kinda scary)
was going to engrave it like this :) dl.dropbox.com/u/2774926/…
also wondering why it says this on the page: dl.dropbox.com/u/2774926/…
iPhone headphones include the 3 button inline controls, and I am not sure these come with other iPods. The Shuffle from a while ago had them, the one with voice control, but since they retracted from that idea I'm not sure they include the same headphones. I think they are likely to be the same as iPod touch headphones, with just volume controls, and no ability to stop/start/next/back etc
stuffe oh really? damn in that case i may need to just buy a regular apple earphones then...
anyone who has an ipod shuffle last gen know for sure? It says on the page voiceover is still supported
Might be bestir to ask a question on the main site
better*
 
7 hours later…
17:13
@Daniel Have I edited the title more than once on your question?
4
Q: How to exit Assembler back to Applesoft Basic on Apple ][GS

DanielWhen writing in Applesoft Basic on my Apple ][GS, a crashed program occasionally dumps me not at the Applesoft Basic prompt (]), but at the assembler prompt instead (*). How can I get out of the Assembler and back to Basic (no pun intended)?

@JasonSalaz haha! Didn't think to look there.
@daviesgeek you have edited the titles of my posts more than once, but not that particular post. I've said before I don't think changing "How to" titles to "How do I" titles is a helpful exercise. I do understand the appeal of complete sentences, but "how to" is more concise, easier to read, and, I'd argue, sounds less personalized ("how do I" invites uber-localized answers, but "how to" is universal).
Yeah, I disagree.
"How to...?" is not a real question
You wouldn't go up to someone and ask "How to drive a car?"
You would ask "How do I drive a car?"
@JasonSalaz Yup. That question is the definition of a bad CW.
Talk about raising the dead...
17:29
@KyleCronin Is there a meta post about "How to...?" vs. "How do I/canI....?"?
I seem to recall seeing one, but I can't find it.
@daviesgeek I'm not going around the site reverting your edits because we have different style standards. I'm not discouraging you from improving posts through editing, and if in the course of improving a post you change the grammar of the title, more power to you. But it's the OP's prerogative to revert edits to his/her question that the OP doesn't find constructive, and for my post, I am exercising that prerogative.
Ok, right, yeah, I'm not trying to force you to accept my edit.
@daviesgeek there is clearly precedent for BOTH wordings. If Joel Spolsky can ask "how to" questions, so can the rest of us.
It just made me think of a meta post that I thought I saw...
@Daniel :-)
I'm a huge fan of complete sentences, btw. I'm about to go give a lecture to my students about why they're important. But I think titles are different than body text.
17:33
Yes, I am picky too
I just don't like seeing non-question titles
It gives the site a better look
And as I scan the first page, the majority of the questions have titles that are questions, and are asked in good form.
And I'm of the belief that not dredging up old posts to change characters that don't change the meaning of the post gives the site a better look. But I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.
Yes, I disagree and agree to disagree
Cool.
One thing about changing old titles is that it is better for Google
It could possibly drive more visitors
possibly
Something that minor is unlike to deter or sway a user in a measureable amount. Have you seen the general quality of link titles people click on?
 
2 hours later…
19:39
@daviesgeek I wanted to jump in and add to the discussion
@bmike Go right ahead.
I value your opinions highly.
I'm with Daniel on this. If a question doesn't have a title that reads like a sentence, anyone is free to edit the title into a more complete sentence. I would say that editing a question that says "How to back up my iPhone" into "How do I back up my iPhone" would be guilty of violating the "Tiny, trivial edits are discouraged." part of the editing mandate.
Ok,
Just a sec...
I prefer how to as opposed to how do I for most shorter questions for many reasons. I'm not saying it's wrong either way - and I would be far less likely to switch up an OP's wording on that even though I've use both plenty of times.
When I'm editing I try to mix it up and see which makes it better - but not change what was there if that makes any sense.
@bmike Yeah, I disagree.
19:46
I know and appreciate your stating that
2 hours ago, by daviesgeek
"How to...?" is not a real question
(Posted that instead, to avoid having to retype it.
I also think it's good for everyone to chat about their personal preference so the group can have an idea where people's opinions lie.
Yes, I think so too.
I think Kyle's fine with "minor" edits like that.
Jan 25 at 18:50, by daviesgeek
So is it okay to be changing titles from "How to.....?" to "How do/can I....?"
Jan 25 at 18:51, by Kyle Cronin
yeah, that's great
Doesn't that actually change the link to the question that google indexes and add a re-link to the system?
I'm not sure
Hold on....
Ok, so here's this:
URL:
"http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/18398/how-to-wireless-connect-ipad-with-itunes"
19:49
@bmike The question text part of the link is irrelevant. The system only considers the ID.
"http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/18398/how-do-i-wirelessly-connect-my-ipad-with-itunes"
And now the ending part changes.
Watch this:
1
Q: How do I wirelessly connect my iPad with iTunes?

KMTI want to connect my iPad wirelessly with iTunes. Can it be done? If it can be done, please explain on how it can be done.

As Jason just said, the system only considers the ID, but Google cares a lot about the URL
19:50
(Hover over that for the full affect, stupid truncator...)
Are you sure about that? @daviesgeek? Re: the text part of the url?
the appending of the title is for SEO purposes
@JasonSalaz Yes
fair enough.
I work for a web master
It's all google cares about - I'd bet money they disregard "how to" and "how do I"
19:51
And we have an SEO doc
From some people in the Bay Area
For that reason I avoid changing a title unless it DEMANDS action due to major problems. I just don't see "How to" -> "How do I" being a reason to edit something as big as the title. Sure - edit away in the body, but leave the handle alone unless it reads like a train wreck and you can make it substantially better.
@daviesgeek I assume your bay area any my bay area aren't the same bay.
19:53
Anyhow - not a big deal so I'll step away from this subject - just wanted to add my two cents.
"how do I tell if the flash player installer is" - Google Search
Does anyone have any good iBooks Author documents they've made yet?
@Daniel no.
how to tell if flash player is a virus
I mean San Francisco bay area
19:54
No, @bmike. I have some terrible ones that I've made, but nothing I'd show the rest of the world.
@JasonSalaz odd
hey I gotta get back to school
"how" "to" "do" "I" are really unimportant terms
So I will continue this later
19:55
@JasonSalaz because they stink
I had wanted to make some up this week, but infrastructure woes has kept me tending to IP addresses and web servers.
Maybe this weekend....
Same search result shows up if I search for: is flash player installer a virus
the key words are more important than the ... umm, other parts of speech that don't convey deep information.
( Yes, omitted because I suck at english vocabulary :(. )
well in this case, "to" is functioning as part of an infinitive (not as a preposition), do is a helping verb, I is a pronoun, and how is a... subbordinating conjunction?
Or not.
Stick to economics ;).
Do you teach other subjects?
Not when I can help it :-) (But now I've got to go teach) Bye.
20:01
later
20:26
Is it too late for a simple comment on the how to/how do i debate?
If daviesgeek can reference a 2 day old comment, you can reference a 2 hour old one
(which isn't even that old)
I don't mind either, but in support of "How to" I would merely state that the title of the question is also the title of the page, and as such also effectively the title of the topic.
The question might be How Do I, but the page encompasses the answers as well as the questions, and as such "how to" is a better fit for the page as a whole
If I google a page and receive "How to" hits, I am more inclined to try them then "How do I", as the implication is that there are answers, which is clearly the reason this site exists
That's all :)
(not quite all), however I think the distinction is moot for the majority of readers, and I would suggest using either is fine, editing one to another is trivial if it's the only edit
in The Comms Room, 18 mins ago, by voretaq7
out of curiosity does anyone know what they DO discuss over on apple.SE?
in The Comms Room, 19 mins ago, by voretaq7
I assume it's all iPhones and unicorn farts
20:43
hehe
So anyway, what is the best temperature for drinking cool aid ;)
the ambient temperature or the temperature of the kool-aid itself?
I think we need to examine the intersection between climate, and liberal application of ice...
indeed
and with regard to the conversation about "how to" vs "how do I", for me it's not so much a matter of SEO or anything like that, but of giving a sense of consistency across the site. I highly encourage people to phrase the title as a complete questions.
And I don't think that there's anything wrong in daviesgeek editing questions to get them in this format, though I hope that perhaps he's choosing questions that already have a bad body/title and both improving them and changing them to a question
that said, it is the prerogative of the post owner to revert edits they don't like or want (for the most part)
I agree that such edits are often fine, and it's not the change that it makes that I have most issue with, it's the fact that so many are made in a row that it materially affects the current front page with dozens of edits by the same person bringing old questions to the fore that are not made more answerable through their changes, and resulting in the questions that did not need such an edit sliding off the bottom.
It's what made me ask this q on meta yesterday meta.apple.stackexchange.com/questions/1028/…
true, it's an unfortunate effect of the system that every edit pushes the question to the top of the front page
yeah, on that MetaSO post I don't think that the problem of malicious invisible edits is an insurmountable one
perhaps only give that ability to people with certain rep, and provide a "recent edits" tool that will list them
21:01
Maybe a timer, like you can't make more than 1 edit every x minutes, a bit like the ones on regular chat forums. I honestly thought 'SPAM!' when I saw the top 20 posts all within a couple of minutes being updated by 1 person.
@stuffe The added bonus here would be that if a user is making substantive edits (i.e. more than a few characters) it would not be possible to run into the timer's constraints. I find that good edits take more time and thought than many good original answers, because I'm trying both to write well and to be true to the OP's intent.
@JasonSalaz So Kyle seems to agree with daviesgeek, but we already established that they're really the same person, so no surprises there :-)
ha!
He's in the middle though. Editing How to... -> How do I... is fine, assuming it's not the ONLY change being made.
21:29
@KyleCronin I agree there.
@stuffe As I commented, thanks for posting that question!
@JasonSalaz Ok, I will try to make more changes than just the title
@KyleCronin I personally think that there should be a little checkbox that says something to the effect of "Float question/answer to the top/main page"
Then, minor cleanup edits such as the ones that I do don't get pushed up to the top of the main site
However, based on everyone's suggestions, I will try to restrain myself from going on major editing sprees.
I'm only going to do major editing sprees every once in a while, and I will do them at night (or whatever time you guys suggest that would be better) and in the middle of the week, so that the site isn't messed up on the weekend
However, stuff that I see on the front page of the site, I will edit.
Particularly non-question titles.
I would certainly support a "minor edit" checkbox or similar that would prevent automatic promotion to the top, mainly as I am a serial editor of my own posts and it looks really bad when you send your own stuff to the top 5 times in an hour!
Yes, I do that "quite" often
And would highly support a minor edit checkbox
Do you want to post that on Meta?
'cuz I'm going to go ahead and post that as a feature request
Go ahead, I'll probably chip in after
I'm not sure if it's a technically feasible request, the algorithms may be automated on timestamps to produce the sort order and it may be unavoidable by design tho :/
21:40
Yeah,
but it doesn't hurt to ask.
@stuffe
0
Q: Can we add a "minor edit" checkbox when editing a question/answer?

daviesgeekThis is an extension of Should making edits bump a question to the top of the list?, which was asked yesterday. I have a tendency to edit a lot of question and answers, which bumps them to the top of the main page of Ask Different. Is it possible to add a "Minor edit" checkbox to the edit page, w...

21:52
I think a minor edit is completely nonsensical.
Just like it is on Wikipedia.
10.7.3 out now
just FYI :)
I'm actually quite behind on updates.
@JasonSalaz At least you don't read Wikipedia sequentially ;)
The Mac mini I use at work has a firmware update out I need to apply, now I have to 10.7.3-up all my systems, and there's at least 1 or 2 other non-app stragglers I have.
@stuffe On the contrary, I read my watchlist sequentially, which is quite large.
@JasonSalaz OK, At least your watch list doesn't re-order all the time when something is edited ;)
My dev account will lapse soon, no more previews.
21:59
I'm confused as to who's argument that justifies.
but you're right, the watchlist is perhaps a bad comparison.
I'm just messing, I think we all understand each others position, and it's not exactly a cold war style dispute :)
The giant chatroom war that erupts during the nomination phase, including no less than three mod candidates, one current mod, and one person who announced on chat his probable intent to run, but hasn't declared yet. Maybe we're just auditioning to see if any of us lose our temper and shouldn't be mods.
(And I think we're all handling civil disagreement pretty well. I love this community!)
wat
Oh - just my bizarre sense of humor
(and I just watched this...)
22:11
I actually really didn't like that talk
it's a one word title
Not a complete sentence.
indeed
@JasonSalaz But is it a question?
wat?
22:13
it can be
@KyleCronin Although funny, it didn't really educate at all - except for the hazards of duck typing and pitfalls of some modern interpreted languages.
I didn't even find it that funny
and IMO those sorts of type conversions are serious flaws in languages that allow them
I'm of the opinion that all type coersions should always be explicitly done by the programmer
Man, serious mods (+to be) are serious.
No, it was not a serious talk at all, but it was hilarious. .oO( and yet I like Community Wiki, imagine that )
@KyleCronin I'm quite happy that there are many languages. People who want that can get it, and if I want the same variable to function as a float, string, integer, and boolean depending on context and have it Do What I Mean, I'll use perl.
Is Perl considered 'DWIM'?
Considering the sigils especially, my gut reaction is that it's not.
22:17
WRT variable typing it seems to -- sigils are for singular/plural, but not type
@stuffe Wouldn't a minor edit run counter to the idea that no edits should be minor? Just leave it be seems to be the plan of action for a post that only requires minor edits. You are respecting the tone and phrasing of the OP in all cases unless it needs a substantial change...
example: use constant VERSION => '3.14'; my $url = "http://stackexchange.com/api/VERSION" does not work.
Of course, I'm vocabulary-stupid, so engaging in these types of dialogs are not my strongest suit...
fair enough.
but it does just enough of what I mean for it to work for me. Kyle might want more explicit type casting. You might want more agressive interpolation. I've used so little else but perl for the past 15 years that it just seems like the right blend for me, but I wouldn't want to push it on anyone else.
and actually, I meant: my $url = "http://stackexchange.com/api/" . VERSION;
Oh, better.
yep, you do still need the sigil.
22:20
(p.s. my two strongest programming langauges are perl and php, so don't get me wrong, I love perl)
But "http://stackexchange.com/api/$VERSION" will interpolate.
@bmike to use an example from one of my answers earlier. Good old lion interpreted some finger trouble that should have spelled "passing" as "passion". I didn't spot it until much later, and when I edited it (and it did warrant an edit, even though it was just a typo and the intended meaning was just about there to see) it went to the top, made it look like I had promoted my answer again
will it really? I could swear I tried that and it failed.
@JasonSalaz With single quotes, no. With double quotes, yes.
right, I know that difference.
hmmmm
22:21
Sorry, I know you do this professionally, and I wasn't trying to condescend.
none taken
I'm a total non-pro at all things computer. I just enjoy using them.
┐('~`;)┌ obviously I did something different when working with constants before, and don't remember what. Oh well.
@stuffe Aah - this is a non-issue. As you gain reputation, your edit window will grow and each change gets coalesced into one edit. Also, that question was already bumped with the first edit, so you're not really doing much to bump it again in 5 minutes. (unless I totally misunderstood the timing you are proposing )
and hello to @Handshaking
@bmike it was a couple of hours. I don't actually agree that no edit should be minor. Just correcting an accepted answer for example, which can be seen to reflect on the site as a whole as an example of what we strive to achieve to capitalise the word "i" is a worthwhile task if someone is prepared to invest the time to do it, but it's not worthy of having the answer propelled to the top slot again
22:26
@JasonSalaz Sorry, I forgot you were using a constant. They're weird (which is to say that I don't use them often, so I can't recall what the right answer is).
they are weird. a buddy told me that the expanded form of a constant is, use constant VERSION => '3.14'; -> sub VERSION { 3.14 }
which honestly, I don't even understand. I know in Ruby the last assignment / returned value / whatever will be the default method return value, but I've never seen that in perl.
@bmike editing Q & As that are still active in this way and having them bump is more acceptable, than finding what would be a really great answer that you found on a search that is full of really trivial errors like 'i' which nonetheless reduce the perceived quality of the answer and have it promoted as if it were active just because you fixed them
@stuffe I agree, but if it's just one post occasionally, it's not a bad thing to bump a newly improved answer back into peoples' sight.
It's only a problem if it floods the front page.
@stuffe I guess I'm really fine with things popping up. I take a how will this look in three weeks / three months point of view for edits. How will this read far down the road and edit as much as needed with that viewpoint in mind. I think it's great that anyone doing editing is conscious of the prominent placement that all edits get alongside with all answers to avoid flooding the queue.
@Daniel agreed, to an extent, but the average demographic is coming here to either ask, or help, and the only people who gain from such a bump are the curious ever present knowledge magpies. And, unfortunately, Ask Different is sufficiently low traffic to make flooding a more regular occcurance
4
22:31
@stuffe two stars for magpies if I could :-)
In comes Jason with the assisting star.
But no one is able to convert on the 'for magpies' annotation.
(schucks)
22:47
@JasonSalaz thanks - who better than the king of chat stars to help with handing them back out?
That is totally not me. I would be willing to bet money.
9 pages of stars from everyone, 2 of them when filtering by only me. I guess that's not totally conclusive, but I'm willing to go with it anyway.
@stuffe @KyleCronin How many visitors per day are there?
@JasonSalaz Magpies?? I don't get it.
I'm missing something here....
@JasonSalaz haha
22:51
38K visitors per day! That's not bad...
SO = 3.1M visitors daily.
Wow, that is crazy!
not really
Well, I guess I don't know what I could compare it too.
What do some of the big sites get?
alexa top 100
Apple, Google, etc.
22:55
Um Jason, how do I find how many visitors there are per day?
(sorry, haven't used Alexa enough)
┐('~`;)┌
I haven't either, I only know of it.
Ask Different is #914 in the US
StackExchange collectively is #914
*.stackexchange.com is #914
ah.
And #1,123 globally
jrg
jrg
askubuntu.com is 9,680 overall. not bad for a single site that is entirely about linux. :P
22:58
apple.stackexchange.com 6.72%
@jrg wow
Ask Different is 6.72% of overall visitor traffic to *.stackexchange.com according to Alexa's tracking capabilities.
interesting, because that's quite a different from stackexchange.com/sites
the quantcast numbers are more accurate for SE traffic
stackexchange.com/sites says we're 6th overall, 3rd when it comes to .stackexchange.com
jrg
jrg
@daviesgeek speaking of wow, i'm more than a little surprised that you aren't running for AD moderator.
have no aspirations of world domination? ;)
22:59
I want to run for AD moderator
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