@Mast what are you asking? is that a rhetorical question?

Your answer reads like you're not sure.

I don't have anything to back up my theory other than my thoughts of how it works. so I can't say "this is how it works"

I know what the general consensus is but then I make .... what is the word I am looking for

@Malachi You extrapolate?

I am re-Writing it

There have been some pretty wacky transport accidents. It wouldn't surprise me if it was possible.

An incomplete list.

@Mast @Zak what do you think of the answer now?

> The Matter Stream would not merge Matter from the stream with something outside of the stream.

You do realize air is matter?

So why does it work with air, even foggy air, and not with rock?

Combined with the quote in this answer, I'm not confident your theory sticks.

@Mast because air will displace when something is placed "in" it. it will move easily, where Rock/Stone will not move easily, it won't Displace itself, which is why you can stand on a rock but not on air

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The world is going to hell. You can get prosecuted in the Netherlands now if a link you put on your website is breaching copyright.

How the heck can a link be copyrighted???

No, whatever is behind the link.

I remember seeing that

The only copyrighted link I know is owned by Nintendo

@Mast so... the netherlands want no internet?

So if I put a link on my site linking toward a site hosting illegal copies of something, it's my fault.

I'm kinda fine with that...

Time to migrate to Germany...

At least they got a certain respect for technology there.

Welcome to the land of the free and the technologically literate

better not link anything, because you never know if the linked page will add infringing content at some point in the future

where your emails can be encrypted by your personal free-mail favorite and you can be sued for nmapping a server you control

lol

@Mast Well... doesn't sound that bad actually. It makes sense. If you would say to someone "Here is how you can go and rob a bank", you would be encouraging crime, which is also illegal.

The problem with this thing though, well.... bye bye Google.

lol

Indeed.

I've had it with internet restrictions.

well it's better than GB

@Mast [citation needed]

I've heard (don't quote me on this) that the US is planning on handing control of our internet to the UN.

@SimonForsberg Got one in Dutch.

Good enough?

Good enough.

@Hosch250 if everyone just did that, I'd kinda be fine

I wouldn't.

Who wants Iran having a say in what we can put on the internet?

well the only thing I still want is EU Data Security agreements

(Dutch source)

@Hosch250 Well, it's the UN though. There's more people than Iran in the UN (Thank God)

@Hosch250 what's Iran got to do with that??

@SimonForsberg I don't care.

Netherlands != Iran

You want to say you can't reach Iranian websites in the US internet?

Only the US should have a say in what US citizens do on US soil.

Never thought I had to state that so explicit.

that's kinda ridiculous

@Hosch250 Ah, and on what soil lies the Internet?

@SimonForsberg Depends where your ISP is.

the US should get the heck out of peoples' private matters, so long as they don't violate commonly agreed on laws

No.

As you said though, we shouldn't quote you on it and I think it's better to research more facts before discussing it.

My ISP is on US soil.

Depends on where your server is.

Your ISP is only providing access.

@Vogel612 Exactly. And the UN should stay out too.

Not the actual place of the data.

how is "handing over control of the internet" and "nosing in private matters" the same thing?

Well, maybe we need import/export laws on information outside the US, but the UN doesn't have anything to do with it.

Mandatory Person of Interest intro:

so better not have international standards :)

Matter of fact, if I had my choice, the UN wouldn't be around.

why?

@Hosch250 If I had my choice, the UN would be improved but definitely be around.

also let me just move this convo to the nth. it's politics after all

← 57 messages moved from The 2nd Monitor

@Vogel612 I was waiting for that to happen :)

@Hosch250 The UN has made a lot of stupid mistakes, but I'd say they're somewhat of a necessity in a globalized, unstable world like ours.

It's not so much the politics that is the "problem", it's the heated debate about politics :)

They are half the cause of the instability.

@Hosch250 That's your opinion.

what instability are you referring to?

Yes, it is.

Part of the reason we are involved in the Middle East, for example, is the UN.

We aren't the only ones there--there are UK troops, troops from SA, Oceana, and many others.

@Hosch250 that's bananas

Maybe.

you're involved there because you started playing world police after WWII

How could we help it?

a selective world-police, but at least world police

more often than not you did that without the UN, btw.

It was our responsibility to rebuild the nations we destroyed.

@Vogel612 #iraq ?

True, it was the US's fault the nations were in disarray in the first place. UN had nothing to do with that.

Before that, the UK was the international police, and before them, it was Spain and Portugal.

@Mast Hardly.

Who provided weapons to Saddam?

~burn

It was Hitler in Europe, Stalin in Asia, and Japan attacked us, I'd like to remind you.

You think Stalin was any better than Hitler?

Huh, I'm talking Gulf War.

That was a UN initiative, not US.

Europe was in disarray, because WWI had a really crappy end result

Of course, the US could have vetoed it, but we'd be playing police either way.

then Wall Street crashed and Germany went into depression

I sure can pin it on America

So, Hitler didn't have anything to do with it?

Hitler just used what was there already

And, as a matter of fact, the US wanted to give Germany better peace terms, which would have helped their economy remain stable.

It was France and the UK that wanted revenge through the fines.

which is: Antisemitism, Anti-Americanism, Racism and Nationalism on rampage

@Hosch250 that's just a symptom

But, as we've had this discussion before, and neither of us will be convinced, we might as well drop it. I've got school to do anyway.

the root cause is Pride, Prejudice and Nationalism

Germany turned out quite well for a bullied state.

Germany is slipping ...

@Vogel612 Just like many other countries?

Right wing nationalists got more than a fifth of votes in the latest state election

last time that party didn't even run in that election

Whoa

Extremism was well at bay a few months ago

but then the refugees came and people went apeshit

And WWII and the root causes are talked about in German schools. they're mandatory material

The worst part about that party is that their followers and leaders are not dumb people.

They still seem to not see where this obviously leads. That's why they're opposing useful institutions like the EU, like the very constitution of this country

at least TTIP was shot down

@Vogel612 Interestingly enough, the US electorate likes trying to keep the government out of their matters, but when it comes to another country that isn't 'freedom' enough...

Though I'm with @mast, safe harbour laws are a good thing

copyright in and of itself imo (patents as well) are not fit for purpose in the internet age and need to be revised (I don't have any suggestions)

Copyright is a flimsy thing on the internet, yea.

not only do they simply not work with the model of the internet and are nearly unenforceable without an entity taking ownership of the entire internet (PLEASE no), but copyright laws in general are now no longer about a creator earning money for their contribution but a publisher monopolising that contribution, even long after the creator is gone (Hello Disney)

The UN wresting control of the internet is an... interesting... proposition. Ideally any corporation that did that would not have to be able to be bought.

I'd say that the UN is probably one of the better ways to do that - bearing in mind the alternative is either a 1) government (Look how well that's going for Iran/NK/Russia) or 2) private corporations (who can definitely be bought)

if the UN took 'ownership' of the internet it would also help pave the way for the internet becoming a right rather than a privilege, which, again IMO would be a good thing

but i don't really think there is any one country that can say "here, you own the internet now".

I'd like to say I would prefer the internet remain no single one person's, though, but I think it is naive to pretend that is the case given the amount of censorship going on today already, even in my country.

@Hosch250 to be fair that was mainly because we also 'owned' (for want of better word) a third of the world.

^^ True

So it was their responsibility.

I think ISPs and governments already have too much say in how the internet works.

and, btw, yes, the UN is the reason why there are troops in the middle east.

however, I think the UN is allowed to play world police on account of the fact that that is mainly the UN's purpose in the first place.

The UN is not judge, jury, executioner like a single country with a lot of might is. The idea behind the UN is that if one country goes off the rails, unless it is beneficial for other countries, no resolutions will be passed.

Of course, the UN does not have a lot of power on its own (aside from that of its constituents)

Calling for world-gov

The UN putting troops in Iraq, for example, is a lot different to the US deciding on it's own volition that Iraq needs more freedom after 9/11 attacks.

(sorry, wrong country)

with the UN any resolution has been democratically agreed across several countries, of whose representatives are democratically elected, to be the 'right' thing to do

the US (or UK or Germany or whoever) doing this same thing though is nothing short of strong-arming someone because their country is more powerful than that country

@DanPantry A lot of good resolutions get veto'd though.

And frankly the actions 80 years ago are not excuses or justifications for the actions of any one country today. If anything, they should remind us of what happens should we go down those paths again and we should know better because we have the benefit of history to show us that.

Saying America is now the world police because WW2 is dumb.

@Mast Lots of good ideas get veto'd by a democratic electorate, and bad ones approved too. See: Brexit.

but I'd say good resolutions being vetoed is better than an authoritarian dictator issuing orders :)

like you said, for it's faults, I'd agree that the UN is necessary in this world

and for the faults of the EU it has mostly kept europe stable for a very, very long time.

the UN and EU have made mistakes but have done a hell of a lot of good as well

don't really have a conclusion here, just throwing shit out there

@Vogel612 gee, I sure am glad we don't have any prospective world leaders taking advantage of those trai- oh

@Hosch250 I don't think anyone is saying that hitler had nothing to do with that series events, just that the causes were already in motion and could have been taken advantage of by other politicians as well

also japan attacked the US because an embargo made by the US (which the US made in response to japan's actions in china.) world police caused by hitler tho, right? that attack was directly a result of the US getting pissed at japan for interrupting the US profits in china

ultimately pearl harbour was caused by a pre-UN western world getting worried about Japan's interventions in other countries. Had the UN been in place back then, this may not have happened.

(to be clear: I am not saying that the atrocities japan committed in that time frame were a good thing, but simply stating that japan didn't just come out swinging at you for the lulz, and the UK and US were complicit in world policing long before hitler was on the global stage)

closing remarks: the UN may have it's faults, but diplomacy will always be cheaper than war

Especially when counting lives.

I agree with @Hosch250 here. The U.S giving up control of the internet to the U.N is a bad idea as of right now.

anybody giving up control to U.N in general is a bad idea as of right now, because the U.N. as of right now isn't even remotely able to move quickly enough (let alone useful enough) to ensure a proper internet

Vogel612 vs. syb0rg: 81 diff. Year: +392. Quarter: +57. Month: +94. Week: +79. Day: 0.

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