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9:00 PM
@Verbeia we want the blue to match the web-page ;-) Currently it matches the link-color of mathematica.SO.
@Verbeia so that it fits in the page-style.
@Heike no. Pink is for girls ;-)
 
@halirutan and your point is?
I use purple for Global` symbols in Mma, so pink would be closer to what my notebooks looks like
 
@Heike @Szabolcs, @yoda, Heike wants pink ;-) You can make your version pink easily: Download the script from here github.com/halirutan/Mathematica-Source-Highlighting/blob/… instead of installing it right away. Open the js file with an editor and go to line 42. There you see the color codes for strings, keywords, etc. When you are finished, just open this file with Chrome and it asks you whether you want to install it
@Heike Don't forget to go to Tools->Extensions and remove the old one first!
 
@yoda @yoda I would be disconcerted if the mods could see votes. I think only actual sysops should have that access. BTW, I have no strong desire to be a moderator and I would be quite happy to let it fall to someone else, but I also want to keep this community strong and if that's what's needed I'll do it.
It appears that if I link a comment to an earlier one the system adds the @name automatically; is that correct?
 
@Heike But the main point is, that colors used for code should fit into the whole page. Look for instance at Java.SO here stackoverflow.com/questions/9055728/… See how there are 3 different shades of blue which don't look good together? Keywords, classnames and the links in the right panel. Looks awful.
 
@MrWizard Thanks :) We'll try to make the job easier where we can
 
9:19 PM
pretty :)
 
@halirutan what are tag, lit and pln?
 
@halirutan I agree that the colours should match (I'm actually quite pedantic about that when I present stuff), but I guess at the moment it doesn't really matter until we know what the colour scheme of the site is going to be.
 
@Szabolcs These are predefined token names from prettify: tag - tags in html, xml, etc, lit - literal, pln - plain. I just used them as they were, for instance "tag" for braces
 
@halirutan so for Mathematica, tag is braces, pln is undefined symbols, and lit is numbers?
 
@Szabolcs pln is whatever is the lighter shade of pink in my upload
 
9:27 PM
yes. Sorry for the wrong comment. When numbers werent colored differently, there was no distinction between numbers and other black code.
 
@halirutan Is it intentional that undefined and operator have the same colour? (commas, etc. are pink in Heike's screensoht)
 
@Szabolcs yes, that was intentional. Highlighted operators are too much. But test it yourself and be honest ;-)
 
@halirutan no no, I mean I'd like to highlight undefined symbols, but I don't want to highlight operators
 
@Szabolcs When we would have undefined symbols colored and operators black, they cannot both be in the same coloring class. But there are lot of color-classes available.
@Szabolcs in your version maybe keywords and operators would be in the same class: simple black.
 
@halirutan yes. Is it easy to modify the script that way (i.e. does it detect words in any way?) I'd just like to try it here, and I see I need to modify more than the CSS
I think I found it ...
 
9:35 PM
Not that I am lobbying or scrounging for badges, but here is my best shot at getting a Reversal badge mathematica.stackexchange.com/a/961/8
 
@Verbeia what is reversal?
 
@Szabolcs getting lots of upvotes for an answer to a question with lots of downvotes
 
Answer score of >20 for a question with a score of -5 or lower
 
@Verbeia that's quite an elaborate answer to a rather vague question
 
@Heike yep - see if you find the little joke about integers and humans. The problem was underspecified.
 
9:40 PM
just having some fun
@halirutan after trying to style it to my taste, I realize I should listen more to you :)
or at least that I shouldn't talk so much before actuallytrying to come up with a good styling
I still don't want blue for defined though --- the opposite of the front end ...
 
@Szabolcs Thank you. This is really a compliment (better than one from a woman).
 
acl
@Heike fetching colour scheme
 
So, I'm not satisfied with the style I made (and posted above as a screenshot), but I like the italic patterns. Do you also? :-)
 
@acl Thanks :-)
@Szabolcs I like the italics actually. How did you manage to just highlight the user-defined symbols without highlighting the punctuation?
 
@Heike Instead of changing the style, I shuffled around the highlight groups. You can search for things like PR_PLAIN, PR_KEYWORD, PR_TAG, etc. I put the system symbols in PR_TAG, the operators I kept in PR_PLAIN and the undefined keywords I put in PR_KEYWORD. The styled. I'll upload the file, so you can play. Wait.
 
9:51 PM
Yes, the italics are not bad.
 
@Heike you can compare this to the original to see what I mean: dl.dropbox.com/u/38623/mathematica-source-highlighter.user.js
@halirutan Can you ping me in chat when you upload the next version?
 
@Szabolcs of course.
 
@halirutan I browsed some old code-heavy SO posts a bit, and they're great. I don't see any major issues that need fixing. Two minor things (i.e. maybe nice to have but no need to bother) are unnamed patterns such as _ or _Integer and a few common system keywords that are not highlighted. Do you think we can have an extra "common keyword" list that will manually be added to those that are in FUnctionInformation?
I'm speaking about things like $ContextPath, $Failed, $OpreatingSystem (okay, this last one is not common, so maybe leave it alone --- it')
it's just an example I saw
Or did you exclude these on purpose because they are not functions?
@halirutan Yet another minor thing: what do you think about highlighting True/False as literals? Well, maybe not because people will also ask about Null, None or even Automatic then, which would be way too much.
It's really great we have this, I think it's almost ready to use (or fully ready to use based on what I saw so far, but let's see if anything major turns up).
Thank you @halirutan !
 
This all comes because it is still like I did it in the first version which was: use the output of Names[RegularExpression["[A-Z]*"]]
Are the system variables and the Atoms like True in the FunctionInformation.m?
Give me a sec:
 
ah ...
so you didn't use FunctionInformation.m then?
just Names["..."]?
The nice thing about FunctionInformation.m is that it has info about all standard packages
Yet another minor thing is things like \[Transpose] or \[Alpha]. These are really a single character, but the highlighter doesn't know this. Again: when I say minor thing, I really mean minor: don't really bother fixing it unless you really feel like. Just posting here everything I notice.
 
10:05 PM
No, I'm using names right now. I would use Names[RegularExpression["\$?[A-Z].*"]] which contains the $variables too. True and False should be highlighted correctly right now, since they are in this list.
 
Yes.
I meant, why not highlight True|False just like numbers (literals), but now I think it's a bad idea. Just ignore it, please keep as it is.
 
Can we extract all the [Gamma] stuff (which I already mentioned in my post) in an easy way? How long would that list be?
 
@halirutan how about just using the delimiters, \[ and ]? Is that doable? There is never any nesting or anything special inbetween.
 
Ok, I'll check this. The patterns _, __, ___ should all be green, right?
 
@halirutan I can try to extract for you from reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/… if you want, but how about auto-detecting it based on the \[ and ] delimiters?
 
10:10 PM
Since in the first place they are "operators"
 
That'd be nice if those were green
 
Ok, now my todo contains:
- try to match : patterns and make them green before the colon only
- include ? which I forgot as operator
- make patterns like _, __, ___ match
- check whether we can match [Gamma]
- parse the FunctionInformation.m to extract keywords for standard packages.
Did I forgot something?
 
@halirutan note it's `\[Gamma]`, not `[Gamma]`.

page = Import[
  "http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/ListingOfNamedCharacters.html", {"HTML",
   "Plaintext"}]; namedCharacters =
 StringCases[page,
  "\\[" ~~ Shortest[__] ~~ "]"]; InputForm[namedCharacters]
 
the `\` got eaten..
 
oh right
sorry
I just looked into FunctionInformation.m and a lot of stuff is missing. I think this file is for correct highlighting of functions (i.e. what options they take, etc.) Maybe Names["..."] is better.
 
10:16 PM
@Szabolcs nice, then I have this list too.
 
@halirutan note it's a bit tricky: some of those special characters will get displayed as special in the front end, even in strings. I used InputForm to prevent this. If you export to a text file, it'll look fine.
 
@Szabolcs If not even True and False is included, maybe Names is really bettern.
 
I agree.
 
ToString[namedCharacters, InputForm] looks fine
Another thing: Do we have some kind of test-post, where we can simply test the highlighter?
 
very good point ... I already noticed it won't work on meta
 
10:21 PM
Currently I always "answer" a question and look at the preview. Thats a bit..
 
and we can't litter the site ...
but the preview won't highlight for me until I actually post the answer, so that's no good ...
 
Make a code-block, go under it and type some more text. Then wait..
 
nope, won't work
let me try in chrome
 
it works for me in chrome
 
Nope, it won't work for me in Chrome either when looking at the preview:
It only works for existing posts
 
10:27 PM
I thought you are having your style now that keywords are black?
 
no no, this one in Chrome is your original
unmodified
 
ah ok, forget it.
 
Oh, no, it won't work on the ask page.
That's likely an easy fix though, one sec.
 
Tim's right. Answer.. you have to answer an existing question
 
It must be a slow day today. "Combination and Permutation" is the top hot question on StackExchange at the moment.
 
10:30 PM
maybe new sites get a boost to popularize them
also we're all crazy hanging out here on a sunday evening
Right, it works in answers
 
@Heike how is this rated anyway?
 
@halirutan by magic? Or rolling some d20's perhaps
 
Another minor issue: context names are treated just like symbol names:
I'd say don't try to fix this though, it might introduce more problems.
(yes, there actually is a context called Manipulate`
 
ok, on my list
 
Yay, I finally capped today
 
10:35 PM
@Szabolcs this sentence makes me remembering this one "Theoretical math is cool as shit. You know what's not cool? You being an idiot. Math theory involves solving problems like finding patterns in prime numbers, topology and thinking about the different kinds of infinity. And yes, there are different kinds of infinities." from thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=math
 
@Heike First day below 200 for me :-)
 
@Szabolcs tsk, slacker ;-)
@Szabolcs I've missed the cap within 20 points 3 times now so it was about time.
 
I'm trying to figure out where LaunchKernels[PBS[], 2] fails for me. No error messages whatsoever ... just returning $Failed. And I hate to Trace, especially in command line mode ...
It's about the ClusterIntegration` package
 
@szabolcs @rcollyer @yoda @verbeia @acl @heike @mr.wizard @MikeHoneychurch and others. Do we have sufficient moderators at this time? If not, I'll step forward and volunteer as well.
 
well ... this package is full of inter DebugPrint symbols, so glad I read @Brett's post about these and know I need to do Block[{DebugPrint = Print}, ... ] now :-)
I don't know how many we need @Sjoerd We have three candidates. You have my support of course. You should talk to the other volunteers and see what they say. Especially to @rcollyer, I think he's a bit short on time
 
acl
10:51 PM
@Szabolcs which post is that (if you have the link handy)
 
@Szabolcs Yeah, I read that. Made me think I shouldn't let him bear the burden
 
acl
@SjoerdCdeVries don't know how many are needed. @rcollyer is probably going to be busy in the near future so he may need help
@Szabolcs thanks
 
Or we can just have 4 mods, if that is acceptable for SE. To share the burden, and to have someone in the Europe time zone.
@rcollyer Does Collyer mean coal miner? Or it's unrelated to that occupation?
 
How is this discussed with SE?
 
10:54 PM
I've no idea. @yoda said he expects the mods will be chosen next week, based on his experience. I think SE is watching our meta thread. You can post there and volunteer --> meta.mathematica.stackexchange.com/questions/154/…
Let's just not create the impression that there is competition between the candidates because this is not the case at all
 
No, better not.
 
it's easy to make that clear in your post though
It's already Sunday, so I'd say just post: so if the SE team emails candidates, they'll email you as well.
 
acl
@Szabolcs you're right. useful to keep in mind
 
OK,I'll do
 
11:13 PM
@Szabolcs There it is. Alea iacta est.
 
2
A: Who should our moderators be?

Sjoerd C. de VriesI'm not sure whether four moderators would be acceptable, but if so, I would like to offer my services as well. This in addition to, and expressly not in competition with, those already offered by rcollyer, Mr.wizard and J.M. I'm a long time user of Mathematica (about 20 years). I participated i...

 
acl
@Sjoerd I thought you were part of the @Mr.Spartacus collective?
 
There wasn't. It was a mistake.
(wrong link)
 
I see (or actually, I don't see it;-) )
 
This reluctance of people here to become mods reminds me of a quote from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy.
 
acl
11:24 PM
ha yes
 
@Heike Being mod is booring. Maybe that's the reason.
 
acl
hm can't find it
 
@halirutan But I can image that some people enjoy the power that comes with it
 
acl
"His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it."
not what i had in mind, but...
 
@halirutan I know I am in a good timezone, but my real-life work would preclude me from committing. I have been visiting every day lately, but things can change to make that impossible, especially when I am travelling. My job involves a lot of travel, just not in the December-January period.
 
11:28 PM
@Heike Ask yoda. With power comes great responsibility.
 
@Heike which quote
?
 
@SjoerdCdeVries I was thinking about this one: "The major problem — one of the major problems, for there are several — one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem."
 
acl
yes that is the one I was looking for
 
acl
I thumped through my copy and missed it :)
 
11:30 PM
Oh how I miss Douglas Adams.
 
@Heike Even before that I read an SF short story about a planet where the president was elected from those that least wanted it (for a year). Might be Brown, but I forgot.
 
@halirutan yes, he's one of those icons who died far too young
@SjoerdCdeVries Dan Brown?
 
acl
there is also the approach of selecting someone and giving them infinite power for a fixed amount of time
 
Frederic
 
acl
then executing them
keeps excesses in check
(no motivation)
 
11:32 PM
@acl like in ancient greece?
 
@Heike Frederic Brown, famous for his dark, twisted, humorous short stories
 
@SjoerdCdeVries I don't think I've ever read anything by him
Should look him up then
 
acl
@Heike I don't know if this was common anywhere in ancient greece (could be that i simply don't know it)
which period?
 
From Wikipedia:
The "Deep Thought" episode in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams appears to be a parody of his [Fredric Browns] short story "Answer".
 
@MrWizard haha, I was referring to the fact that you used to (perhaps in your early days) leave comments like "I'm not voting for you, and I'm letting you know because only moderators can see who voted for each post..." :)
 
11:40 PM
If anyone is still awake, why does Trace[f[1 + 1], f] return nothing?
While Trace[f[1 + 1], Plus] does return something?
Do you understand the second arg of Trace? Trace[f[1 + 1], _f] won't give me anything either.
 
let me see
In[910]:= Trace[f[1+1],f]
Out[910]= {f[2],1}
 
@acl I'm not very familiar with the history of greece but I thought that in Athens those who were in the council were often severely punished for not doing their job.
 
I give up ... I'm going to use Cases[Trace[f[1 + 1]], _f, Infinity]
@Sjoerd ... weird ...
 
In[911]:= Trace[f[1+1],Plus]
Out[911]= {{1+1,2}}
 
@Szabolcs Trace[f[1 + 1], f, TraceOriginal -> True] gives output
 
acl
11:44 PM
@Heike neither am I to be honest. but from what little I remember from school yes, they seem to have gotten severely punished for not being perceived to do their job
 
Thanks!
 
acl
by execution, ostracization etc
 
yes, that's what I remember
 
acl
but, why does Trace[f[1 + 1], f[_]] return nothing while Trace[f[1 + 1] + 1, f[_] + _] does?
 
In[915]:= ClearAll[f]
In[916]:= Trace[f[1+1],f]
Out[916]= {}
 
acl
11:48 PM
@Heike (aside: the impression I got from reading up on that is that it ended up being used as a political tool)
 
@acl Maybe because there is nothing to evaluate when calling f
 
acl
well, i have trouble modelling what is going on
 
I hate ClusterIntegration` ...
 
In general, form in Trace[expr,form] is compared both with each complete expression that is evaluated, and with the tag associated with any transformation rule used in the evaluation.
 
Anyone here familiar with PBS?
 
11:53 PM
form must be evaluated, but can you say f is evaluated when it doesn't exist
?
Public Broadcasting System?
 
Portable Batch System
 
I'm afraid that's new to me
 
You lucky soul!
Maybe I should just go to bed ...
 
same here.
 
me too
 
11:55 PM
I had a very tiring weeknd. Saw 7 movies
 
:D
 
Most of them very boring and slow
International Film Festival of Rotterdam
I walked out of one of them
 
oeh, fun. I haven't been there for years.
 
Hi @Arnoud !
 
this was my second year
 
11:56 PM
I used to go to the volkskrant day
 
Hmmm, didn't notice such an event
 
I think it's the last day of the festival
or used to at least
 
@Artes Did you see my comment on your answer here? --> mathematica.stackexchange.com/a/708/12 Do you know if those functions have settable timeouts?
 
I see
Last year I went for three or four days
Some very remarkable movies then. Not so now
 
Pity. I saw some of the most memorable films during that festival.
 
11:59 PM
I had a great laugh about Ace Attorney, a movie based on a game I have on my iPhone for my son.
 
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