@Undo The penultimate board state

@Emrakul Thanks :)

And with that, the floor is open for post-mortem discussion

As Turkey, what can I do to not just get wrecked? What dumb mistakes did I make? This was my first game, so I'm assuming I made a bunch.

First, a confession to @Doorknob: this was not a mis-order on my part

@MorganThrapp You were Turkey ;)

So that would be my first dumb mistake :D

I think you did pretty well for your first game. Probably should have advocated a bit more strongly for your interests early on, when you only got a single neutral SC.

Yeah, that makes sense.

The opening I chose is strongly anti-Turkey, so it's reasonable to raise your hackles and make some demands

And also to use it as a bargaining chip with Russia, "hey, look at this guy over here, let's leave the black sea alone and shut him down"

@Air Ah, see, I didn't realize that.

@Emrakul They weren't. :P

Yeah, we did eventually talk a bit.

@MorganThrapp As a new player there can be a tendency to see the neutral SCs at the start of the game as truly neutral—they are anything but. They may not be formally owned by any power but they provide positions from which to attack or defend

But it took a turn or two.

And how Austria and Italy behave toward each other, with respect to Vienna and Trieste, is a huge signal for whether they've been talking and what they've decided - at least openly

Good to know.

So when I not only left Trieste in Spring 1901 but also "risked" losing it in the Fall, that's a good sign that I had some kind of agreement with Italy that made my order of F Alb-Gre both less risky and less altruistic than I implied in my messages with you

Gotcha.

It certainly was still a risk because in 1901 there are no guarantees and Italy might well have taken Trieste.

Cool, let me know once it's up and I'll play another round.

@Emrakul I was reasonably confident in my assessment of Doorknob's play style from Game I - but I don't know that I would have ever offered you the same opportunity :)

I'm in!

@Emrakul Maybe so, though if we know who the other 6 are, disguising ourselves in our communications will be a real challenge!

I was unreasonably proud of my convoluted machinations in this game

Let's try to survive with more than one supply center this time ;P

The way that @MorganThrapp and I shut Russia out of the south was just beautiful

Actually I can be glad that I did survive this game, haha

@ProgramFOX If Italy had managed to recall his navy quickly enough to keep me from reaching 18 centers, you'd have even scored points as a participant in a draw :)

@Emrakul I think your biggest mistake this game might have been that fleet build at the end of 1904

Though I can't be sure, of course, not being privy to all your negotiations - your having only 2 armies was what made me feel safe going into Munich

Ahh. Maybe you didn't realize how closely Italy and I were cooperating.

I knew that if we gave you another year it'd be too late.

It's actually kind of comical how long Italy and I were haggling over Smyrna... we were planning to swap it for some other SC so he could consolidate his navy for almost 3 years straight

@Emrakul Take which, Smyrna?

Yeah, it would have been a pretty costly stab to just get one SC and not even be able to destroy the defending unit

Especially considering how valuable the Italian good will is for Austria, and vice versa!

Spring 1905 orders are a good picture of how paranoid I was at that time, though, since I knew you were working on him

I basically told him look, I wasn't sure if you were about to stab me or not, but now I've got you by the balls and there's nothing you can do about it. So you have the luxury of not having to think about how to defend, because the position's indefensible, and next turn my orders will prove this wasn't a stab. Or that it was. So don't sweat it, let's take Munich.

And I left Con open, so I could say look, if this was me attacking you, why the hell would I not take Smyrna at the same time and really seal the deal?

Yeah, not sure if that's only for survivors or for everyone. @MorganThrapp can you send messages in the interface?

I just closed the tab. Link?

@Air That game was pretty intense. :D

Let me take a moment to catch up on the chat log...

@MorganThrapp webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=174561

Seems like I can.

Yup. I don't know if messaging was disabled for eliminated countries before the game ended. It might have been so, and then opened back up afterward for just this sort of post-mortem

@Air Ha, I didn't even suspect that at the time, I don't think

:D

@Doorknob The entire point of that was that I could only retreat to Rumania so it put me in position to support an attack on Sevastopol without Russia having any idea

@Emrakul At that point (if you're referring to what I think you are), I think I was still hoping for a draw with Austria. And... well obviously I kept doing that for a little too long :P

Honstly, if Italy had just kept one more unit close to home, I probably would have settled for the draw.

But I was studying the map after Spring 1907 and thinking:

Heh, funny story... I was trying to get some friends at school to play Diplomacy, so I sent them a picture of the board state (it was around 1906? or so) and told them about what was going on. Knowing hardly anything about the game, one of my friends immediately said "Betray Austria!" as a joke. And now...

Hmm, I probably should have picked up on the implications of 2, at least; seems blindingly obvious in retrospect :P

@Doorknob Ohhh, I was worried that you saw it, trust me :)

I agree with @Emrakul - and that's how I like to argue for DMZs in-game as well

Cultivating an alliance is like cultivating a garden, if you wait for the weeds to pop up before you deal with them, you'll always be one step behind. Instead of asking your ally to resist temptation, you should avoid tempting circumstances to begin with - and get your ally's cooperation in doing so

In a game like this, with two experienced players and five inexperienced players, getting the upper hand is to a large degree just about understanding the game better, not having to devote as much energy to immediate tactics so you can spend more time thinking about implications

Oh, yeah, Air commented on my Spring 1906 order to London... :D Germany and I had indeed planned a convoy there, but I'm pretty sure it was an unintentional mis-order

Time to reach out to those who've expressed interest in the past, then, 'cause I'm definitely sitting this one out.

Isn't there a board games SE now? (Answering my own question: of course there is)

Is that autocorrect or an unfamiliar idiom?

Right, right. Yeah, luck of the draw of who's in there at the moment.