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4:00 PM
?
 
@AnubhavGoel Well, do the Hamiltonian and the position operator commute or not?
 
Thinking about it
That definition of ctcs I use would prevent both ctcs and imprisonned curves, I think
But then again imprisonned curves are rare enough that I don't need to worry about it
 
I am blank on these matters.
 
@0celo7 I'm tired of this crap
 
4:25 PM
@SirCumference hmm?
 
@0celo7 Truth vs. modeling
What does that make math?
@AnubhavGoel Hey Smithy, can you do me a quick favor?
Check over this code
 
Wait
Why did Krasnikov bother putting up a fancy argument that the tunnel leads to no CTCs
It's a 2D metric on $R^2$
It should be conformal to flat space
 
Oh crap
@AnubhavGoel Sorry, wrong person, wrong room
 
Also I wonder what the Krasnikov tunnel would look like under realistic circumstances
If you assume discontinuous metric transitions, the SET is... $T_{tt} = [32\pi (1+k^2)]^{-1}$
 
Worst question I've ever seen
 
4:34 PM
Oh wait no
Hm
All the energy is concentrated in the wall of the tunnel
What could form a reasonable approximation of negative energy around a tube of vacuum
I think oscillating metal plates generate negative energy around them
But I'm not sure of the energy distribution
Let's see
 
I can see why he was downvoted
He forgot the $ around his equation
quite gauche
Dynamic Casimirn effect is indeed of negative energy
On the other hand
there is this HUGE METAL PLATE right next to it
It might complicate things somewhat
 
...what crazy endeavour have you embarked upon now, @Slereah?
 
I don't knooow
 
This question
And answer
 
4:43 PM
I'm trying to think up a way to make a realistic attempt at the stress energy tensor of the Krasnikov tunnel
I'm thinking something like oscillating metal walls
But
The big problem is
The energy from the metal walls is much higher than the negative energy from the dynamic Casimir effect
So I'm not quite sure how this would turn out, as a metric
 
@Slereah why?
 
Well the Krasnikov tunnel is a very simple metric
Much simpler than wormholes or Alcubierre metrics
 
Also, if you know the metric, don't you know the stress energy tensor by the Einstein equations?
Or are you trying to come up with a physical configuration that would produce that stress-energy?
 
Well yes, but in real life, you can't just have a tube of exotic matter
I guess the closest I can think of is like
Two metal plates very close to each other
Then slowly separating and vibrating
Might be interesting to calculate the metric of this configuration
How do you approximate metal plates in GR, perfect fluid?
$T_{plate} = (\Pi(x - d) + \Pi (x + d)) \text{diag}(\rho, p)$
Or something
 
@SirCumference Truth.
 
4:53 PM
@0celo7 Dammit!!!
 
Mathematics is the only truth.
Why are you mad?
 
*Allah
 
I'm surrounded by math purists
 
You're surrounded by reasonable people.
 
Oh no
I get this feeling
I have to do
ADM formalism
 
4:54 PM
@0celo7 What can math tell you about the real world, if you ignore physics?
 
I believe so, anyway
 
@Slereah I read "ACM formalism" and thought "Oh, great, what have I done now?"
 
That's when I give you the work and take all the credit
 
@ACuriousMind it's a formalism when you answer the question that was asked but don't answer the real question
 
No that's the Timaeus formalism
Or
I guess I could try domain walls
2+1D spacetime with two vibrating domain walls
 
user116211
5:04 PM
@Slereah Timaeus!!
 
user116211
@3075: o/
 
hi
 
My guess would be that if it leads to some metric similar to Krasnikov
It will be a very paltry light cone opening
 
@SirCumference Not much, but that's not my point.
 
Damn, there's a $C^\infty$ function that's nowhere analytic. I'll never Taylor expand again
 
5:09 PM
Which one is it?
 
What about just
Gluing together an infinity of bump functions
A bump function train
The bump train
that is what the fabius function seems to be really
 
What do you mean? The trick is that it's nowhere analytic, the usual bump functions are usually only non-analytic at the points where the derivatives vanish
 
Oh
So only non-analytic at the edge?
 
I think so? Of course, I cannot say what kind of bump function you had in mind
 
5:12 PM
Well any I suppose
Can the Fabius function be defined as any other known function
 
Well, it's true that no bump function is analytic , but "nowhere analytic" means that the Taylor series never converges to the right value no matter at what point you take it, no matter how close you are
 
Quite odd
the question is, to what does the fabius function - some close analytic version of it converge
I mean it doesn't seem like that crazy a function
 
I have no clue
 
The wiki article is quite brief
Also they give a differential equation for it
I wonder what happens if you try to solve it with a Taylor series
Lessee
$f'(x) = 2f(2x)$
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind But it looks so smooth!
 
user54412
5:17 PM
Actually I guess it is smooth
 
@ChrisWhite Well, it is smooth - just not analytic
Goes to show that "analytic" is not really a property we intuitively understand
 
user54412
And this goes to show that "analytic" is not a property one can see in a curve.
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind Stop echoing my future self :p
 
So $$\sum a_n n x^{n-1} = \sum 2 a_n 2^n x^n$$
 
@ChrisWhite Hey, I've got this time machine and now you tell me to stop using it?!
 
5:19 PM
That would be... $$a_{n+1} n = 2^{n+1} a_n$$
$$a_{n+1} = \frac{2^{n+1}}{n} a_n$$
Hm
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind No, I told you tomorrow to stop using it. Now look what you've done.
 
I guess it doesn't converge to 0
I'm guessing that it's pretty hard to make something of the form $D(f(x)) = f(2x)$ be analytic
 
@ChrisWhite Oh no, the time janitors will get mad at me. Again.
 
user54412
@Slereah $f(x) = 0$
 
hush you
 
5:23 PM
So anyone here an expert on degenerate matter?
 
I know a lot of degenerate matters
If you know what I mean
 
user54412
There are some degenerates hanging around here, to be sure ;)
 
Uh, no I don't
Or not in the physics sense
In a partially degenerate gas, will all the fermions still occupy the lowest energy levels up to the Fermi energy?
 
@ACuriousMind hmm
what is its Taylor series
 
It has none
You butts
That's why it is not analytic
 
5:31 PM
> the Hopf fibration $S^3(1)\to S^2(1/2)$...
What are the $1$ and $1/2$ there
@ACuriousMind ?
 
Uh. That's not standard notation, whoever writes that should tell you
I would guess these are the radii of the spheres?
 
I know it's not standard, hence why I'm asking.
@ACuriousMind The Hopf fibration has to do with the radii?
 
@0celo7 no
 
@ACuriousMind So why would you say that?
 
But I have no idea what other number I should associate to a sphere
 
5:34 PM
ic
(that was my first guess too)
@ACuriousMind Was browsing a book for something, found:
 
@0celo7 It's the radius, if you set the radius of the $S^3$ to 1 you get radius 1/2 as that of the image
You could have checked that yourself :P
 
@ACuriousMind No, because I have no clue what that means.
 
...you don't know what it means for a sphere to have a radius???
 
How do I check the radius of that thing?
@ACuriousMind No.
 
@0celo7 If you set $\lvert z\rvert^2+\lvert w\rvert^2 = 1$, compute what $\lvert H_1(z,w)\rvert^2 + \lvert H_2(z,w)\rvert^2$ is.
 
5:44 PM
@ACuriousMind Ah yes, that makes sense :)
Riemannian geometry is the worst.
:(
Why can't people use good notation
 
He should write it in Penrose notation
wait
Dynamic casimir effect has negative energy but it also emits light
so the middle would not be empty
grumble grumble
Still might be a worthwhile thing to investigate
I wonder what's the lowest you could sink the energy density in a realistic setting
let's see
"We have found that the energy density at the center becomes negative when $\omega_p a > 100$"
100 what
Hm, let's see
The lowest limit for a perfect conductor is $\frac{\pi^2}{720 a^4}$
But
In a realistic setting
The energy will only dip into negative territory if the plasma frequency * the separation of the plates is... 100?
I guess that means $\omega a = 100 c$
So we need the material with the highest plasma frequency
Apparently the plasma frequency is related to $\epsilon$
So the material with the lowest permissivity
Well apparently superconductors, but I'm not quite sure they really have a conductivity of infinity
Man I don't know how to read those material science papers
Apparently in exact form it is $a > 1.3\mu m \frac{14.8 eV}{\omega_p}$
14.8 is the plasma frequency of aluminum, apparently
So I guess a realistic estimate is around the order of the micrometer
So... $\frac{\hbar c \pi^2}{720 10^{-9}}$
About $10^{-12} J/m^3 $
Pretty low
 
6:40 PM
Though I suppose superconductors could do better
Not sure how close you can get two superconductors and still get a Casimir effect
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind any extended interest in this key/ pivotal subj? have some ideas lately & want to build on them (with others/ experts). hey lets start a new chat room with @slereah on that. =D
@Slereah awesome graph whered you get it? :P
 
vzn
@Slereah solitons are a vast/ deep subj, do you have the attn span for that? :P
 
Man I'm already off solitons!
Who knows
 
vzn
@Slereah do you like em enough to sustain a chat room? cmon man they deserve it & itll be engaging/ fun. =D maybe even more than a lecture on CTCs :P
 
6:53 PM
Well I probably don't know enough to sustain a chat room on the topic
 
vzn
@Slereah you can sustain a chat room just based on your knowledge of cartoons :P ... seriously, am thinking of a low-traffic/ longrunning room/ dialogue. it only takes 1 msg/ line every 14 days to sustain the room.
why are you interested in quantum connections to solitons? have seen you mention something like it a few times, not sure what you are looking for exactly, but it sounds very close to something have been looking into myself for many yrs...
 
Well it's a thing I have
I'm not fond of approximations in physics
I like exact solutions
 
vzn
@Slereah but what does that have to do with quantizing?
 
Well you can use them for exact solutions of interacting quantum fields
 
vzn
@Slereah ok, trying to understand that, not too familiar, wonder if anyone else has sketched out the basic connection etc
 
6:58 PM
Sure
It's been a field of study since the 60's
 
vzn
@Slereah does it go under a name? sine-gordon something?
 
@vzn I don't see the point of a "chat room" for that.
 
Well look for a QFT book with "soliton" in the title
And you'll be gold
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind the idea is a longrunning/ active research topic/ program
to try to better delineate/ answer "big open questions" some of which youve posed yourself
 
@vzn I'm not even sure what "this key/pivotal subject" is. Instantons and other topological features have been researched for decades, there is a large body of technical literature on them.
 
7:01 PM
quite so yes
 
lol
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind you & slereah seem to be talking about how to connect quantization with solitons. seems to be a very deep subj worthy of further exploration in detail, have been thinking about something like/ looking into it for yrs
 
I love the talking past each other here.
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind think there is something new/ big to be found in area & unification possibilities etc
@Danu part of research is trying to find common ground/ language for disparate but nevertheless underlying-connected phenomena & it can certainly be a (huge) struggle
 
I think that you guys are not talking about the same thing when you say "soliton"
 
vzn
7:04 PM
@Danu so lets discuss that in the new room =D
 
So why don't you first state what a soliton is, to you?
@vzn No, I'd rather not.
 
Soliton is love
Soliton is life
 
@vzn "Connect quantization with solitions" is rather vague. Again, the importance of solitons/instantons/topological configurations in both classical and quantum field theory has been explored for decades in the technical literature and is a subject of ongoing study.
 
Solitons are just particle-like solutions of non-linear equations
 
vzn
@Danu it has a fairly strict mathematical form wrt differential eqns. what is particularly interesting to me is that its not really highly dependent on # of dimensions.
 
7:06 PM
That you continually imply this is something "new" or "unexplored" just tells me that you don't actually have any concrete idea what you are talking about.
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind understand solitons etc are highly explored for decades, think there is a missing link that hasnt been explored.
 
which one
 
@vzn Missing link between what
 
I mean there's plenty of research to do on solitons
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind thats part of the topic for more discussion in another room =D
 
7:07 PM
But there's plenty of research to do on rocks, too
 
vzn
if you guys think theres nothing (new) left to say about solitons, then why dont you shut up about them in here then? :P
 
@vzn See, this vagueness lures exactly nobody into a "long-term" debate - if you want me to bite and spend further time discussing the subject with you, then give me something to chew on.
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind how about meditate on slereahs awesome visualization for awhile as a zen physics koan...? =D
 
The way you are dodging any serious questions is worrisome :P
 
vzn
dont want to debate exactly, want a dialogue... its not that big a deal is it? its what you guys do in here all day long for weeks/ months on end...
@Danu whats really at stake here? would you guys rather go play video games? :P
 
7:10 PM
I talk to myself a lot to be honest
 
vzn
definitely a very worrisome character :P
 
One thing I am pondering about solitons is
If I could use them on some acausal spacetime
There isn't a lot of work on interacting fields on CTCs
 
@vzn Yes. The point is as crazy as Slereah's talk may sometimes seem, he usually has some definite concrete model or goal he wants to achieve. That's sometimes interesting enough to actually discuss it - and the rest of the time just nobody picks up on it. You don't even give that - there's no concrete model, no proposal, not the slightest indication that you know what a "soliton" or "quantization" actually is.
 
The only real work on the topic is the billiard balls model
 
@vzn I don't play video games.
 
7:12 PM
That's not a good starting point for a debate, let alone a "research project"
 
vzn
shoulda known/ figured this would be a huge uphill battle if the resident room troll addict repeatedly suspended doesnt even want to create his own chat room :P
@ACuriousMind maybe you like "debate" but did not once use that word for the "endeavor"...
 
I am wondering if you could have non-unique soliton solutions on such spacetimes
But how, that is the question
 
vzn
@Danu uh, alcohol then? beer? :P
 
The simplest idea would be sine gordon on the torus
But that will only give me a restriction of the existing solutions
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind lets discuss slereahs model if thats sufficient for you. or even something you propose! am not asking almost any commitment. just an experiment... without a lot of preconditions
 
7:14 PM
Although I am curious what solutions are removed in such a model
MY GUESS IS
Solutions of soliton collisions that do not meet specific conditions are removed
As well as the usual removal of the wondrous space filling curve type business
 
@vzn Just an experiment in what? What does this experiment actually consist of? Why are you so adverse to give a precise statement about what you want to do?
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind the room can be sustained with a single msg in 2wks... too much effort? :P
@ACuriousMind have given several/ numerous statements. it cant be described unless tried, the description is in the engagement...
 
Something of the type of the Misner spacetime would be more interesting, though
 
@vzn Sorry, "just post whatever" is not really an interesting proposal. That's already what happens in this room.
 
Because you can have a soliton solution circling at $t = 0$
And then
 
7:17 PM
Y'all are insane
 
You can see what happens when it collides with other solitons
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind right. it would not be a lot different than this room, except another one =D
 
Although...
Could it really circle at $t = 0$
$t = 0$ is the Cauchy horizon, and the soliton is of non-0 width
 
@Slereah Is that possible? Some theories don't like to be put on periodic boundary conditions
 
vzn
man, persuading physicists of anything is @#$& hard :(
 
7:17 PM
What is this room? Can I just type questions in here and physics monkeys will answer them?
 
@ACuriousMind I'm not quite sure
 
::throws banana at @GavinN.::
 
vzn
@GavinN. monkeys indeed/ exactly :P
 
since solitons are not of compact support, I suspect that it might not work
I know there is a set of solutions for solitons on the cylinder spacetime
So there's that at least
 
vzn
shut down =(
 
7:19 PM
@GavinN. More seriously, it's a chat for users of physics.SE. You can ask questions about the site here, you can ask physics questions (but there's no guarantee someone will answer), or you can just talk about whatever you like.
 
@GavinN. I can send you my paypal details ;D
 
@BernardMeurer Took you a while to notice that :P
 
This one only has static solutions, though
So it's a bit boring
 
@Slereah "exact numerical calculation"...what?
 
7:21 PM
@GavinN. You call us monkeys again and you'll wake up with linux running on your dingdong
@ACuriousMind I'm a slow student :v
 
@BernardMeurer Why would you install Linux on his doorbell?
 
@ACuriousMind It's only his doorbell if he works in the sex trade
 
also
Apparently it's something like $\arctan(cn(x) cn(t))$
No snitching
 
What's $cn(x)$?
Some cosine integral stuff?
 
@BernardMeurer so where are you going to university?
 
7:25 PM
That's jacobi elliptic function stuff
 
@3075 Dunno
 
I'm not quite sure if that's a propagating type of soliton
it doesn't seem to be very $x - t$ in that form
 
@3075 I'm still overcoming my existencial crisis
I think my brain just turned 40
 
weird.
 
@BernardMeurer I'm not sure anyone ever does ;P
 
7:26 PM
dude you can always transfer next year.
 
I guess I could just do it on the cylinder spacetime $t \sim t + l$
 
@ACuriousMind Yeah, maybe, I don't know
 
But then that's basically the same thing as a point particle
 
@3075 Yeah, that's what I'm holding onto, the possibility of transferring
 
You can't make it collide with itself
 
7:27 PM
@Slereah lol, the string theorists might disagree ;)
 
Unless the speed isn't high enough, but then that's just a solution which will not work
 
You could develop string theory with Sine-Gordon as a worldsheet theory!
See how far you get till someone shows it to be inconsistent
 
Nooo
 
@3075 So far it looks like I'm going to ULisbon
 
Perhaps the best solution would be to try solving it on a topologically trivial spacetime
Since that removes any business with periodic boundary conditions
But
Those spacetimes are at least 2+1D
 
7:30 PM
@BernardMeurer are you glad?
 
And solving nonlinear PDEs in 2+1D is hard
Already the IST works a lot less better
 
@3075 Not really, I'm rather disappointed
 
@Slereah That might be why only a small subset of physicists hunts for exact solutions...
 
Well they are hard to get by
Although
 
@3075 I'm afraid the Europeans will turn me into a dirty progressive :(
 
7:31 PM
Nonlinear theory is a field that has developped quite well recently
(By "recently" I mean "in the last 50 years")
 
oh.
 
@BernardMeurer :: evil progressive laughter::
(I don't even know what that means)
 
@ACuriousMind STAY AWAY
@ACuriousMind You're a progressive
 
If you told a 19th century man that you could solve exactly a non linear PDE he would have spit in your face
 
@BernardMeurer While I'm not sure what your exact notion of "progessive" is, I probably am :P
@Slereah To be fair, I think 19th century men might have spit in your face for a lot of reasons
 
7:35 PM
@ACuriousMind A progressive is the opposite of a conservative. The Green Party is progressive for example as opposed to CDU and AfD being conservatives
I generally categorize AfD as insane, but that's another story
 
It seems that, whenever a PDE gets too awful, Jacobi elliptic functions and arctangents spontaneously develop on its carcass
Like gremlins
 
@BernardMeurer Ah, the good old tradition of reducing politics to a one-dimensional spectrum. Yeah, I'm definitely in the corner opposite the CDU.
@Slereah Well, aren't they kinda defined as those solutions to ugly to give them in other terms?
So I'm not that surprised
 
Well not exactly
Elliptic functions also have like
Some geometric meaning
But yeah, you get a lot of them because their derivatives are almost all like
$f''(x) = af(x) + bf^3(x)$
 
@ACuriousMind Well I'm not saying that "All of politics orbits around the progressive vs conservative dichotomy" It's more like, of the many dimensions that encompass politics, one is that dichotomy, so I wouldn't say it's a reduction, it's more of a zoom on the frame
 
So it's kind of a jackpot for nonlinear PDEs
 
7:42 PM
@ACuriousMind Then you're a pesky progressive
Not that I like CDU, I just dislike them for other reasons
@ACuriousMind My german party of choice is Die PARTEI
They know their crap :p
 
They do indeed
 
You know I am wondering how generally you could apply the Backlund transform in QFT
It feels like something that should be important
Just being able to write particle-like solutions together
With an interaction-like term
IIRC it is also used in GR
I think I've seen it for a two black hole solution somewhere
 
@Slereah What is the non-example definition of a Bäcklund transform?
 
This seems to have a whole class of them
although it's all weird functions
$$u_{xxx} = F(u,u_x,u_t)$$
(Similar to the De Vries equation)
 
What's 1+2?
 
7:56 PM
@GavinN. Feel like getting banned lately?
 
Heyoooo
It is common in GR and QFT to write the number of dimension as n+1
To specify n spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension
To avoid ambiguities
2D could be interpreted as 1+1 or 2+1
 
@ACuriousMind why did you answer that???
 
@3075 Um, because I think Gavin was asking what Slereah meant by writing 1+2 dimensions and so I made a rather lame joke by answering the literal question? :P
 
k
 

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