last day (15 days later) » 

7:51 PM
7
Q: Disallowing religious observations

KilisiThere is a country contemplating banning Islam from being practiced on it's shores. If this happens would it be wise for locally owned businesses to inquire into the religions of their overseas employees? And to deter their overseas managers from hiring these people? Overseas employees are all in...

 
I would go the latter. That way potential employees can make an informed decision, rather than you taking what is a discriminatory approach, which will reflect badly on your organisation.
 
Options two seems to be similar to the current state of affairs in Saudi Arabia - so that sort of works in real life.
 
I was thinking the same, but it might open up a can of employment discrimination worms if a Muslim didn't get the job and decided to complain based on religion. The other way it's under the radar, the overseas manager is the one that knows the criteria and has to deal with it somehow. I'm still thinking this through though. Overseas employees are all in Western countries, NZ, Australia, USA.
 
To clarify: the problem is that you'd be discriminating on religion in country A where that's illegal because you need to send people to country B?
 
@Lilienthal basically yes, sounds pretty bad when stripped to it's basics, but I'm interested in a pragmatic solution.
 
7:51 PM
What country is that? Please tell me so I can never go there or buy products from there. Im not religious btw.
 
Offer training elsewhere, and the problem evaporates. Fix the problem you can fix.
 
@keshlam it's a possibility, but cost would probably be prohibitive.
 
Is there a reason you're not mentioning the country or is it to avoid people focusing too much on the particular laws instead of the general problem?
 
@Lilienthal yes there's a reason, I go there a fair bit, there is also a law about saying anything detrimental about that country on the internet. And yes again, focus on the general issue, not the country.
 
Since the country isn't named, and reputable new sources say there is actually no country in the world that bans Muslim religious practices carried out in private by visitors, I suspect this is a storm in a teacup.
 
7:51 PM
@DJClayworth It's not law yet, and may never be, but I assure you it is being looked at very seriously
 
If it's not law yet then this question is mostly hypothetical and isn't a real problem you face. It's a problem you might face in the future. Further, you use terminology that suggests you don't understand the law fully (islam vs muslim?), and we can hardly be expected to provide good advice with so little information. If you cannot quote the law as it will be implemented, then at best all you're going to be able to obtain here is wild speculation. This question should be closed until sufficient information about an actual passed law is available.
 
Islam, Muslim, I don't know or care what the difference is to tell the truth, and yes it's hypothetical, don't see how that makes a difference though. Feel free to vote to close.
 
Why would laws in a foreign country affect hiring practices outside of that country? Besides the law simply bars practicing the religion, not believing in the teaching. So long as no religion is being practiced at work then their beliefs should have no bearing on their employabiliy
 
Lol, would that be Samoa by any chance?
 
I'd suggest retitling and rephrasing the question to something like "Hiring without discriminating when employees need to respect religious restrictions" or something similar (can't think of a better wording right now). I can see where the close votes came from but this is answerable as long as it's better defined.
 
7:51 PM
@Lilienthal I'll rethink the wording maybe tomorrow.... I'm pretty sure I worked out an answer anyway, which was actually fundamentally different to the existing ones and my own first ideas on the matter, but very simple and doable and bypassed the religion issue altogether.
 
@Kilisi That's fair. I think you could change this to drop the illegal aspect and instead focus on how to hire employees who'll have to train/work in a location that discriminates against their personal beliefs (religion, personal liberties, equality, ...) when that kind of discrimination is illegal in the hiring country. I see obvious parallels with hiring gay employees for certain countries or hiring women to work in Saudi Arabia.
 
The answer is to discriminate by other criteria which would in effect selectively stop Muslims applying, while at the same time being perfectly reasonable and understandable. Thereby bypassing the whole religion issue. Many criteria could be used, the first that spring to mind is to specify in the job description that a knowledge of the language and customs of XYX would be advantageous, but I can think of a few others (needs some tweaking of course but definitely doable). Appreciate everyone's input, your answers gave me the insight I wanted,
 
If this actually happens, you'll want to learn and understand the laws of this country (after the ban). Most likely there will be guidance as to what you are and are not allowed to do. If I were the business owner, I'd either close up shop or train my employees so as not to run afoul of the law as practiced (sometimes the written law and the practiced law end up being different). Good luck - tough situation to be in.
 
"The answer is to discriminate by other criteria..." No, it's not. China already bans Christian symbols and has many laws against Christianity and other religions, but as an employer it's not your job to discriminate against Christians. If China really doesn't want your Christian employees basing their judgement on their social media history, they'll deny them their visa. And if your Christian employees really want to flout the Chinese laws in public when they're in China, they're the ones who will get fined, or arrested, not your company.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:29 PM
Not the company? Do you really believe it would not impact on the company? It would be an international incident, and it would get messy and expensive really quickly, no one would win.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:37 PM
@JoeStrazzere I think realistically it's only the Western countries employment laws that would need to be thought about. Because if you don't employ Muslims then problem solved. Practical application of the law there by the police is not a worry either, practical application by the village boys is a different matter, they're a volatile bunch.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:54 PM
@Nobilis no offence, but can you remove your comment please
 

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