Not a bar, but plays one on TV - 2016-04-11

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12:29 AM

my dad can be a bit like that too

though I suspect less so in my case

his way of teaching me how to do something mechanical,... mostly involves doing it in front of me and expecting I am now close to expert at it

though to be fair there is also "repeat what I just did" afterwards in many cases

my main problem with learning that kind of thing stems more from needing to do it myself quite a few times before I actually "learn" what I am supposed to do

and often, frustratingly, I need a less artificial environment than "I need to learn this" practice

and by that I mean that I need to be able to do it without someone who knows how showing me first, and get it right anyway, before I can say I learned it

I do better with a list of steps to read though

I am good at learning by reading and then immediately doing

but I still need to do the thing repeatedly over time to remember it

1:05 AM

My dad's not really interested in teaching, he just wants to do it himself, and it's something he really likes to do. He's always working on the computer of someone in our extended social network (family, friends, coworkers).

mm my dad is stuck between those two things

but I guess at least I still got half of the teaching bit XD

But as I would like to learn a little more about it, I hope I can at least watch this time.

1 hour later…

2:29 AM

welp. I just bumped into a freind from back in Elementary school, and also learned that the third guy from our old trio is married now

I feel older than I probably should from that experience XD

Oh man. xD

2:52 AM

and it isn't horrible news or anything, I was just surprised to hear this thing

XD

3:03 AM

@trogdor Yeah. I get that feeling. xD I ran into an old friend from high school who's younger than me and she was married with twins and was just like, "... WOAH."

yeah, this guy is younger than me too

I didn't hear anything about kids though XD

which probably means he has none yet

I realize that I'm the abnormal one, but still. It is strange to think about. :P

3:19 AM

well, part of it for me is that he didn't seem the marring type at the time I knew him

keeping in mind, he was a kid

the biggest shock is that this person I used to know relatively well has definitely changed a lot

and of course the reminder of time having passed

and I suppose a lot of people do end up getting married by my age or even a bit younger

For me, it's both the passage of time and the large gulf between our experiences. Sometimes I consider the fact that at my age, my mother was married, living in her own house, and had two children, and I just marvel. That sort of thing is so far out of my reach that it seems impossible. Yet it's more than possible. xD

4:02 AM

-1

Q: Where is it stated that you can gain spells as favored class option?

This question Human Favored Class: Sorcerer on here brought something up that I never heard before. After reading it I checked the SRD again and found nothing there. In essence it states that as favored class option you can choose bonus spells instead of just +1 skillpoint or +1 hit point. I n...

pathfinder rules-as-written

4:28 AM

my parents were a bit older yet than I currently am

before marriage and kids I mean

not exceptionally older than I am now in the grand scheme of things, but still a few years yet at any rate

Some of my high school classmates had kids a year or two after leaving HS. I didn't meet my wife until 5 years after HS. Got engaged a year after that, married a year after that, and had our daughter a year after that.

And some of my old friends are still single.

not tat everyone who is married did do this, but I have not exactly been looking for anyone in that regard

not even for something with less commitment than Marriage

it probably doesn't help that it would probably take someone who I liked showing interest in me first,...... XD

I am not a forward person by any means

it probably doesn't "help" that I seriously don't mind not having someone in my life in that way

"" those are because it does help in one way but certainly not in a "finding somebody" way XD

@trogdor Yeah I know what you mean. Half my girlfriends I met online, the other half (including my wife) through common interests & social groups.

I partly wonder how people in the past, and even now, sometimes or relatively often, got married at such young ages

though I do realize there were some arranged marriages, and that none of those people are/were,... me

or even very similar to me XD

4:45 AM

It also depends on the society and the part of the society. Common people in medieval Europe often got married older than we tend to think, for example.

yeah

I guess we think of what the habits of the elite were

more so than everyone else

Yep.

because they were actually in the spotlight

5:19 AM

@doppelgreener in my personal experience, 4 male friends stitch, 0 female friends do. Fuun stuff

I was watching an episode of QI last night, where they were looking at gender stereotypes. They mentioned that there's a stereotype of women cooking & sewing, but that most of the world-class chefs & clothing designers are men.

(they were quoting a famous feminist who made the observation)

@Asteria Sure, I was wondering if there was any strong connection to traditional gender roles.

@Adeptus it's a fair point, I can't name a female designer off the top of my head, but plenty of male ones come to mind. Same for chefs. Marco Pierre White, damn I love that man

@Adeptus Yeah. There are a number of reasons for this (I imagine they discussed them in the show).

And often these roles are a lot less traditional than we think.

eg, Secretaries and typists were almost exclusively male professions until two world wars in a row left a man-shaped vacuum in the jobs industry that got filled by women and established a new paradigm.

While Rosie the Riveter got pushed off the lot when the men came back from the war, Tammy the Typist did not.

5:32 AM

...I can't find Tammy the Typist and am disappointed.

I wish.

@BESW I would have liked her to stick around.

And in 1961 the stereotypical computer operator was a woman.

(Albeit a lonely woman who couldn't get a date on Valentines day and spent it with her computer instead. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.)

@BESW I won't dispute that, but the fact that women and only women, and practically all of them, were expected to do it,....

user image

5:41 AM

@BESW As a modern day computer monkey, that is also of the female species, I find a small joy in this fact

@Adeptus My mother gets pushback at work for her reluctance to use the cloud.... because she understands the security risks of her workplace's chosen cloud tools better than the folks who chose them.

This article may be an interesting read in this context; it makes the point that work done by women is generally not as valued as work done by men, regardless of what it is. Women may do cooking and sewing in the home, but for it to recognized as art...

That's very relephant.

yeah,.. that is a large part of my point

I also just don't think I would like sewing very much myself

Heh. I detest handstitching, but I don't mind machine sewing. I wish I had a place for my machine so I could practice more.

5:59 AM

@Pixie this is such a well done article and the first I've read that tackles the wage gap issue in a way that says "no it's not about them doing different jobs" and it's great to have something like this to refer to now.

I think part of it has to do with a disparity of more men being employers

there are certainly women who are employers, but I would think maybe not as many as men in the same role yet

@doppelgreener I've seen some other discussion about the concepts floating around too. Probably can't track them down right now, but maybe I'll come across them again sometime.

so a man with men and women working for him, whether consciously and intentionally or not, might often end up not paying women as much as men, even though they deserve the same pay grades

There are several different explanations that the original papers might address, but the article doesn't. Such as whether the influx of new workers in a field doesn't drive wages down simply due to extra supply available, or whether the wages were stagnating or going down before such "influx" and some of the previously employed men moved to a different occupation as a result, thus freeing up positions for anyone who'd take them, even at a lower pay than before.

Correlation, not causation, etc, etc. Also, this line is quite bad: "Computer programming, for instance, used to be a relatively menial role done by women. But when male programmers began to outnumber female ones, the job began paying more and gained prestige."It disregards the simple fact that programming became an insanely demanded profession because everything uses computers now.

I'd also argue with "menial" in that line.

6:10 AM

One of the articles linked there is interesting. It talks of pay gap within same positions being significantly caused by willingness to work long and set hours, which caregiving women may not possess.

But I think that while it'd be nice to see those extra statistics, it'd be very unlikely that so many different professions had unrelated factors produce almost the exact same result every time.

It is by no means a perfect article; it's still an NY Times digestion. But yeah, the fact that it was observed so many times gives it some weight for me.

I do think the said article is lacking information

I'm very wary of the "common sense" approach to most things. It's common sense that Sun rotates around the Earth, it's very observable.

even the best one would be, not saying this is the best one but the point still remains

mm

common sense can be very wrong

but that does not by any means make it always wrong

I am personally wary of assumptions

6:15 AM

@Magician Regarding the "more supply" thing:

> The same thing happened when women in large numbers became designers (wages fell 34 percentage points), housekeepers (wages fell 21 percentage points) and biologists (wages fell 18 percentage points). The reverse was true when a job attracted more men. Computer programming, for instance, used to be a relatively menial role done by women. But when male programmers began to outnumber female ones, the job began paying more and gained prestige.

I may also be guilty of making them, but I hate it when people assume something about me with very little or no data or evidence to back it up

especially if it is wrong, which it usually is under those conditions

@Magician oh wait you saw that one

@doppelgreener Yeah, and that particular bit of data is clearly explainable without gender bias.

Hm. The study itself is behind a paywall. I wonder if it's on arxiv.

That's the problem with "soft" sciences in general, I suppose. You can't prove anything. And society does change, so any observations from a decade ago may not even apply.

6:18 AM

Explainable via the "common sense" that the jobs pay more because of an increased focus on computers in society. Which, sure, makes a lot of sense... but do you see my point?

It doesn't seem to be...

well, I think there is at least one larger factor that greatly influences women being paid less in general

if nothing else, the sheer number of cases in which it happens would seem to at least suggest it

prove? certainly not, but you can't always prove everything that is true

@trogdor well the issue with that is there's a lot of counterpoints that can be made, like "yeah but they pick lower paying jobs". It's stuff you need data to get anywhere constructive with.

@Pixie I'm not saying it's necessarily the correct and only explanation. But it's a likely one. While it's absolutely a common sense reasoning, the difference, I think, is in trying to look at multiple explanations and determine the more probable one. Which, with our lack of knowledge in the field, is going to be a crapshoot. But, given what little I know, and whatever biases I may have, I think computers being everywhere played a larger roles in programming being valuable than sexism.

@doppelgreener I do understand that

but I refuse to believe, really, that every single case of women being paid less has nothing to do with a certain amount of sexism in some form

6:24 AM

Basically the article is saying "The previous non-gender-prejudice explanations for the wage gap are increasingly disprovable or irrelevant, and nothing else unrelated to gender prejudice has yet been found which reasonably explains the continued existence of the wage gap across so many fields."

I am not trying to say EVERY case does involve that

Whoops no I misread.

Just like no one's saying it's never sexism, either.

Bah

You people and your deletions.

Ha-haaaa!

@Magician I was not trying to say you were

6:27 AM

Anyways. While this seems to be a civil discussion, this isn't really an rpg topic. Move it to NAB?..

← 69 messages moved from RPG General Chat

seems appropriate

@Magician ... and neither was I? Each of these fields will have unique circumstances, and "some weight" =/= "the only possible explanation for any of this." The article is fast and loose in summing things up, as a piece like this is going to tend to be, but it introduces and provides support for an angle that has previously been pretty overlooked. As @doppelgreener says, the concept of gender bias in wage gap is often explained away by saying, "Well, women just pick lower-paying jobs."

user image

a little more than acceptable I think XD

6:34 AM

The difficulty in discussing wage gap, is in how you define it. The article I linked (linked from the OP), attributes the difference in pay within the same occupation to willingness to work overtime and inflexible hours.

> The gender gap in pay would be considerably reduced and might vanish altogether if firms did not have an incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours.

Which isn't so much a sexism issue, as a corporate culture issue. I.e. men happen to be more willing to work long shifts at set times, and businesses are built around that working model. It'd be nice to change that, I wholly agree.

So to hopefully neaten things out: the present discourse acknowledges LOTS of possible causes for the wage gap. One of the many possible causes is: women get paid less because of sexism. Another is: various typically female employment needs preclude income equality (and is that a problem or isn't it). The difficulty is extracting how much which factors affect things.

I think it would be worth acknowledging that the article picked out one profession that transitioned to male domination and higher wages simultaneously, and there's plenty of plausible causes for that which have nothing to do with sexism. Again, that's a matter of finding out how much different factors affect things.

That's been proposed as a possible explanation, yes. Though, of course, when getting into the idea that men "happen to be more willing to work long shifts at set times," it's also important to consider the possibility of cultural attitudes and expectations toward men and women shifting that willingness.

That things just "happen to be" so is quite an assumption. Childcare is a big factor in whether someone can work long hours or not, and the cultural ball is firmly placed in the woman's court for childcare even today.

It'd be interesting to see studies similar to the ones mentioned in that article, but focused on countries with more aggressive and gender-neutral post-natal leave laws.

That would be interesting.

I wonder if there are any on France..? IIRC, they have a pretty good leave situation, but that could be error on my part.

@Pixie Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that "happen to be" was due to some biological inclination.

6:52 AM

It just seems a bit simplistic to say it's more corporate culture than sexism when sexism, or at least societal factors that pressure men and women to behave in different ways (and lead to assumptions about their behavior regardless of the reality), may well be wrapped up in that corporate culture.

No more simplistic than saying it's sexism rather than corporate culture. I'm much more interested in finding out an issue is due to a specific problem like inflexible work hours or childcare social norms. Those give us something to do, a thing to try and change. If the issue is sexism, the only solution is "don't be sexist". Which, well, we already try to do.

But I didn't say it's sexism rather than corporate culture.

Just acknowledging that sexism may be a factor in a situation doesn't mean that we're not also looking for workable solutions.

I never denied sexism may play a part either.

We are a sexually dimorphic tribalistic species. I suspect we'll always have us-vs-them conflicts and prejudices.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't strive against them, of course.

Additionally, not all people try not to be sexist, and not all people understand what forms sexism can take. Someone may make the assumption that they are not sexist, thus they don't think about behavior that inadvertently is.

Thinking and talking about sexism and trying to examine where it is present (in corporate culture, in social norms, in ideas that we have been taught to understand as definite without even realizing it) can help combat this. That's why I think it is important to talk about it. It's part of change.

Not an alternative to finding something to change.

7:14 AM

While I agree in general terms, I suspect we'd differ on a lot of specifics. Which I hope is fine with you. One of the most disturbing trends I've observed in online discourse over the last few years was radicalization of issues, with people picking their tribes and lumping everyone who disagrees in different, obviously evil tribes, then hating them unquestioningly. Or maybe I've just become more observant of such behavior.

It's a complex situation, but posting the article was never intended as presenting a hard truth but a point of interest in the context of an observation about what is and isn't considered women's work, and who is and isn't in prestigious positions. It bears out with other studies and articles I've read (I've done my own reading about wage gaps within professions, their relation to childcare, etc.) as well as my own personal experiences.

@Magician Of course. There are things about the discussion that have bothered me somewhat, but there's no tribe-picking or hatred going on on my end (to the point that this comment seems to be coming out of left field..?).

It's more of a precautionary statement, as I've seen such discussions very quickly turn sour.

And I'd rather simply not discuss the topic if it were to go that way.

It's a bit frustrating when I've been 100% civil and when there is a rather disproportionate assumption that having an interest and a stake in social justice means that you hate everyone who doesn't agree with you. The language is... a bit evocative of that, and there wasn't really any reason for it.

I understand that things can get nasty, but they haven't, and they won't.

7:29 AM

In which case I apologise. Chalk it up to my own tribalism.

For the record, I feared I'd be considered a Bad Person for voicing disagreement. Every now and then, some topic would come up in the chat that everyone immediately agrees on, and I find highly questionable. And whether the fear is founded or not, I do not wish to go against the commonly accepted point of view. This is one of the reasons for me becoming less active here. How's that for an inclusive space.

It's fine to disagree and to ask questions.

Just do it respectfully, and be aware that these topics affect some of our lives quite keenly.

@Magician I for one would like you to know that if I were to happen to disagree with you that it shouldn't be taken as anything more than that

but if I do say something to give you that impression, I apologize, and I ask that you point it out to me on such occasions

7:45 AM

The main thing that bothered me during this conversation was feeling dismissed at times. I simply said that the thoroughness of the study and its observations gave it some weight and got a response about the sun revolving around the earth. Describing your own assumption as different because you had "[looked] at multiple explanations and determine the more probable one" felt as if others had not also done so. I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but...

Part of my reaction may be that dialogues about sexism are dismissed out of hand so often, I'm just used to it.

it is certainly likely to be a contentious issue in many regards

I personally did not want to get in the middle of the conversation at a certain point for fear of making it worse

Again, I know things can get nasty. But I don't want people to be afraid to talk about things, and especially not to talk to me. If I get really angry about anything, I'm much more likely to just leave for a while myself. :P

but we don't want you to leave because of things we said :(

or I don't anyway, I am certain more people could say the same thing

anyway, 2 hour class incomming, be back later

Aww, no, that's not what I mean. I doubt that'll happen either. I just mean that it wouldn't come to a knock-down, drag-out fight even if I did manage to get that angry.

I don't like fights, myself. In fact, I'm really, reeeeally conflict-avoidant. The only reason I talk about this stuff at all is because it's important enough to me that I can push past that a little -- sometimes.

And it's not without risk. I've also immediately been labeled as a Bad Person. I've been literally called "the enemy" for just talking about things and having a different viewpoint. IRL, it's often completely impossible because there is so much risk.

8:49 AM

0

Q: Is the Ray of Sickness poison causing damage twice on a failed save?

The spell says: On a failed save, it is also poisoned until the end of your next turn. Does that mean the 2d8 poison damage reapply on the following turn, or is that just a statement meaning that the creature is poisoned for a while (but since there does not seem to be any other side effect...

dnd-5e spells rules-as-written

9:21 AM

@Pixie How's you PC shopping?

@eimyr It went pretty well! I'm fairly certain about what I'm getting. With a little more investigation, I'm not really spending anymore money this way.

Did you get teh tihng?

@eimyr It was awfully tempting because instant gratification, but this is what I'm aiming for (most of the parts, anyway).

I also discovered that I actually have 14" clearance to the TV, having found a more reliable tape measure, so I can go with a smaller Apevia case if I feel like it. Not much difference there.

Why not a Z97 mobo?

@eimyr I read around, and it seems for this parts, I don't really need one.

9:26 AM

I made a vow long ago never to skimp on mobos

Also, do you think swapping i5 4460 for i5 4590 is not worth the 15 bucks?

Lemme poke into that.

I know 4690K is currently 225 or so, but if you have no desire to overclock maybe even 4690 @210$ might be tempting?

(though at this point you might just have to go for a z97)

I'm getting the 4460 for $174. I had looked at 4590 earlier, and the gains didn't seem that significant.

@Pixie I made this: pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist

Add case, DVD drive and CPU cooler.

it is 10% above limit but contains a number of upgrades which you might find somewhat useful in building your own one.

(z97, 4690, R9 390 all in all)

Are you sure that's the correct link? I see one with a 4460, etc., and no GPU.

9:39 AM

Oh, and just a word, IMHO 1600MHz RAM is a bit dated and one should definitely look into 2400

correct one: pcpartpicker.com/p/sgYCBm

I'll think about those, thanks.

I guess the biggest difference is in the card - 130$ between them.

If you'd be happy with 380 even with a case it might just about fit the budget, perhaps?

Anyway, your choice. I picked the parts from that Polish pc building guide website I have shown you some time ago. They have cheaper options too.

For some reason, though, they still recommend 2x4GB and not 2x8. Dunno why. They do, however, push a choice between 970OC and R9 390 as vastly superior value-for-money wise.

I think we went with that particular RAM I had on there due to either the processor or the motherboard, I forget which now. I'm a little sleepy at present, but I will pore over it again tomorrow and weigh my options.

I have looked at the 390, and it is a great card, but I just don't think I can jump up quite that much. I'm pretty sure I'm good with a 380.

That's cool.

I think you might be right that H97 might have limited support of higher-clocked RAMs.

I had three bad mobos in my life.

First one fried my whole computer, second oneroutinely killed hard drives with its overheating southbridge, current one gave me endless problems with RAM compatibility and northbridge heat.

Ouch. D:

9:52 AM

Next time I'm buying ULTRA GAMER PROFESSIONAL MOBO 9000 FOR SCIENCE AND ROCKET SHIPS.

I can't say I blame you. xD

My GF understands.

We totally want to splurge awfully for a super cool PC and that's one reason why our current one is still the old one.

I am a little excited about having all new parts, nothing refurbished, none of the mysteries that you run into... hopefully.

I'm kinda desperate for something better than 3 wonky, hot-running laptops, the best-running of which is now so old Minecraft and Second Life stopped supporting its integrated graphics and the worst of which I'm afraid to use at all.

(The worst is also the one with the best graphics card and processor, but by now it's pretty outdated.)

I'm not big on buying refurbs. It's alright for some, but I wouldn't buy anything with a battery 2nd hand. Including laptops

Oh yeah, the batteries are always toast before long, but I know to expect that.

9:56 AM

PC parts-wise... I'd be alright with a refurb processor. Less so with a mobo or graphics card

They usually don't guarantee 'em. The HP's battery is doing strange and mysterious things and it's time for a new one, but again, I knew that time would come.

basically, anything that is refurb because it had to be fixed is a no-go, anything that was returned because of customer error (as un-fixable) is A-OK.

You can pick up some nicer Wacom screen laptops refurbished for pretty good prices, so that's why I have the HP. It was supposed to just be for drawing. Then the Lenovo (which always had problems -- I will never touch Lenovo anything ever again) very suddenly heatsploded. So I went back to the HP, but it was having some probably Windows update-related hanging at startup, so I dug out the Toshiba... and when I upgraded to Windows 10 I couldn't play MC or SL anymore, so here we are.

The HP is having to bravely do occasional MC/SL duty.

I needed the HP to begin with because Wacom quit supporting my model of Intuos under Windows 8, but now it works again in Windows 10, so for drawing I often just use that... it's gotten so far from its purpose.

We bought my GF a lenovo recently (come to think of it, almost a year ago!)

It's a marvellous machine, for the price of 400£ it delivers. It can't handle much gaming (like NWN2 is about the high end) but it's great for everything else.

I wouldn't touch Toshiba with a 10 foot pole though.

@eimyr That's what I always hear! That for the price they're great... mine was $900, and that was a really good deal on it. I had issues from the start, and eventually it started literally falling apart.

10:07 AM

(I guess everyone has their own prejudices)

@Pixie Lenovo has one secret - you have to buy top of each line, otherwise it's shite.

It also had random hanging issues that started when I got it and lasted through formats and two new OS installations, so it had to be hardware, but we never could figure out what in fresh heck it actually was.

@eimyr Heh. Yeah, I've conversely had a great experience with Toshiba, but I think they really vary a lot.

I hate their touchpads, the plastic stuff, how they have good models with one AWFUL component that ruins the entire build etc.

This computer has lasted for so long. It is in great shape. Beside some weird discoloration on the left mouse button (why would you even make it out of a material that reacts to moisture like that..?), it is physically the best laptop I've ever had, and it just runs smoother than everything else.

It's just so old that even easier games like MC and SL say no.

Maybe you just rubbed the outer layer off?

(not really because it can't run them though...)

Yeah, there's that, but it has a red rust-like ring around that.

Happened pretty early on, too.

10:12 AM

huh

It's like I rubbed an oval of it off and then the bit of paint right around that spot turned rusty.

So yeah, I'm not happy about that. But it's like the sturdiest laptop I've ever touched otherwise.

Mostly plastic, but the hinge is as tight as the day I got it.

10:33 AM

I am thinking of eventually getting a new laptop too, but I kinda have to save up for one a bit

I don't make so much that I can afford to buy one when this one still works,... even though it overheats easily and isn't nearly strong enough to play most games I would want it to work with XD

0

Q: Does proficiency bonus also increase at 5th level for skills gained from character background?

I have created my first D&D5e character and have just achieved level 5. Race: Wood Elf Class: Fighter Background: Soldier Skills: Acrobatics and Survival from the fighter class, and Athletics and Intimidation from my background. When my character reaches 5th level my proficiency bonus increa...

dnd-5e rules-as-written skills fighter character-advancement

5 hours later…

3:36 PM

0

Q: Why is the deflection bonus always used in flat-footed AC?

I am looking for a rule-wise explanation of the logic as to why your deflection bonus (e.g. a shield) is counted in your flat-footed AC. From what I understand, being flat-footed means you didn't see the attack coming, and are unable to react to it, so only your passive armor counts (meaning the...

pathfinder rules-as-written armor-class surprise

5 hours later…

8:08 PM

0

Q: Is Reaper's Challenge really that broken? Did I get it wrong?

I'm DMing a 4e campaign and the PCs are level 19, now, but I have been having trouble with a power. Reaper's Challenge. My group's swordmage saves it through every adventure so he can use it on a Boss (solo or elite monster) effectively making it the easinest combat for the group. And worse, som...

dnd-4e rules-as-written powers daily-powers

8:26 PM

@trogdor What kind of games would you like to play? You might have some options, depending. I've looked into gaming in laptops a lot because it's so inconvenient for me to have a desktop.

oh, DoTa 2 is one of them

for that, I don't have like,.. any of the requirements met on this machine

oh, laptops are discussed, I'm here

I am thinking of getting Enter the Gungeon because it looks way better than The Binding of Isaac,.... and I played a ton of Isaac XD

but for Enter the Gungeon I don't think the requirements are going to be nearly as high

heck, even Hearthstone heats this thing up a bit too much XD

do you play any AAA games, Troggy?

I used to

at this point in time I don't have a machine that will run them, or at least not very well

8:32 PM

There are 3 main problems with gaming on laptops. Heat builds up inside easily and can't usually vent well, your options for building and customizing are rather limited, and even if you manage to get a dedicated graphics card on a laptop, new ones will be more expensive and harder to find than for a PC.

so you might want to, tech specs permitting

Preach it, Pixie.

I am pretty aware of the first two things

the third,.. isn't hard to understand XD

@trogdor laptops do not have "cards" like PCs do. Everything is blended together on a single piece of printed circuit, with many shared elements

It's doable, but if you want to play AAA games it means a much bigger investment up front and no way to upgrade later in most cases.

Because of that finding one with a part of that circuit board dedicated to graphics is expensive. Even more expensive if you want it to be a separate physical component and often you have to plug it in externally, like an external hard drive but with a video card

8:39 PM

Still worth doing if a laptop suits your needs the best, but it means compromises and getting less bang for your buck.

yep

portability comes at a price

Let me look up that game you mentioned.

Oh, Dota 2. I think for $300-500 you can get something that will run it reasonably on lower settings. $900 will get you one that plays it pretty well.

meanwhile at PC camp it'll be about 20% cheaper, display included

hmm

maybe I should be getting a PC then,...

either way, I am going to need to save up a bit for it

it's nice to be able to move a laptop, but having a stronger system is probably more important to me at this point

If you just want something cheap and temporary that will do better than what you've got, you could look into refurbs. The one I game on most right now cost me like $100, though I gotta replace the battery. When I get my PC I'll still have a cheap laptop as backup.

8:48 PM

and to be fair, this laptop is currently set up in a space that would be very well suited to a desktop

@Pixie I wouldn't mind that option either

If you have a good space, you can get a way better deal on a PC for games and then use what you saved to get a cheap laptop that's good for browsing/work/light games.

@trogdor if you don't need to move your setupvery much, that is

you could actually grab one of them tablets or something

My HP that I got for $100 or so is a Wacom screen convertible laptop/tablet with an i5, albeit an old one.

Later I can look up some decent refurbished machines like that if you want.

mk

I would appreciate that, but it also isn't something I can use just yet

so no rush or anything XD

2 hours later…

11:07 PM

@trogdor Sure. xD I just know how much of a pain it is to be left totally behind by games/have your comp turning into a toaster on you, so if I can help, I'll be happy to.

11:30 PM

that would be nice yes

it is an annoying thing to have happened XD

11:43 PM

and to be fair, not all AAA titles really intrigue me

but when one comes around that does I would actually like to,... be able to pick it up XD

11:54 PM

I mean, stuff like the Assasins Creed and Far Cry series' are not worth it in my opinion

they don't seem to think they should do enough new stuff with the newest versions of their games

plenty of other titles seem to have the same problem

but that is not to say nothing pops up that I wish my hunk of junk Laptop was a better machine for XD

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