/dev/chat

A: How to find all the available packages (and executables) that can fulfill an "alternative"?

@FaheemMitha How close does my answer come to answering your original question?

1

Virtual packages and the Debian alternatives system (which is where binaries come into play) are related but not the same. For packages, you can use apt-cache to find which (real) packages "provide" it: $ apt-cache showpkg awk Package: awk Versions: Reverse Depends: base-files,awk base-fi...

If it's close, I'll delete and move to your post, since OP there has a vendetta against dupes. :D

Thank you. BTW, as you pointed out in your comment, my question is a duplicate. I would gladly delete my question, but for that I'd need you to delete your answer first. (Ironic that a question that is, essentially, about redundancy among programs would itself be eliminated for being a redundant question.) — kjo 1 hour ago

1:25 PM

@muru Not very, but feel free to move it if you want.

As I noted in my recent comment, I'm not aware of any clean way to do this easily, and the Debian packaging system does not seem to have a good way builtin.

apt-cache showpkg vi
N: Unable to locate package vi

That was my original example.

This presumably works because awk is a virtual package, but vi is not a package at all.

But they both exist within the alternatives system.

1:44 PM

@FaheemMitha Yep. And I don't think it can be done unless the Provides field is re-purposed, or a new field is added. As it stands, alternatives are created using maintainer scripts, and so the rest of the packaging system is blissfully unaware of them. :/

Not moving, then.

@muru Indeed.

@muru I think it would be reasonable to move it. It answers part of the question.

The poster seems unhappy. But I'm not sure what we can do to make him happier.

Dinner time. Adios.

A: Print only unique lines from file not the duplicates

3:48 PM

@terdon: Would you mind deleting comments in this answer

3

That's the job for uniq: $ LC_ALL=C uniq -u file grapes lime peach If you want other tools, like perl: perl -nle '$h{$_}++; END {print for grep { $h{$_} == 1 } %h}' <file

I made the chat room but comments were not removed

terdon

4:10 PM

@cuonglm done

@terdon: Thanks. And feel free to show your opinion, I know you're Perl guy :)

4:39 PM

@cuonglm That's kind of a horrible nickname to give someone. :-)

5:09 PM

@FaheemMitha: You mean "Perl guy" :|

@cuonglm I do.

@FaheemMitha: Sorry for my bad English :D

I mean a person who use Perl

@cuonglm Your English is fine.

@cuonglm Yes, I know what you meant. It wasn't a commentary on your English.

7:14 PM

@muru that edit issue over SO is just ridiculous

7:33 PM

@Braiam agreed. I don't know how many times Gilles or Stephane have done corrective edits to various posts, or how often I have done similar edits on AU. I'm actually surprised that not one reviewer agreed.

@muru is kind of a cargo-cult that formed in later years

Is it always like that? :/ I haven't yet had many occasions to make substantial edits there. I guess I'll stick to formatting/grammar edits

8:08 PM

What edit issue are you talking about?

For unix.stackexchange.com/q/261078/4671, since the host is Windows, is it on topic here?

8:25 PM

@FaheemMitha If its's a problem with the guest, I suppose so. If its a problem with the host, probably not.

Hmm I don't know if linux-headers-* is necessary before installing a linux kernel...

but I can't install it anyway.

@derobert So, it's only on or off topic retrospectively? :-)

@FaheemMitha hah, yeah... Bloody quantum-ontopicness.

@Dinir Still hacking away at the wireless thing?

@Faheem Yes. I am trying to search anything I should want to before installing new kernel.

8:32 PM

@Dinir The 4.4. kernel?

Does apt-get install pkgname not work?

I didn't tested it. @Faheem But I don't sure if it's okay to install it without installing corresponding header first...

@JennyD Is it just me, or do you find the background music in SG not so background? Some of the time I can barely hear the dialog.

Funny thing I've found with the script you gave was that iwlist scan shows all the wi-fi signals near the machine properly.

@derobert are you using postfix with postgresql?

by the script I mean this: raw.githubusercontent.com/UbuntuForums/wireless-info/master/…

8:34 PM

@Braiam no

I'm using exim

@Dinir You could install them together. But you don't need the headers unless you are compiling modules.

and system users, not db ones

(though I've used exim with postgresql virtual users before.)

oh... bummer, I'm trying to decide if I bite the bullet with postgresql to set up virtual users now or wait until I really need it

What is this virtual users thing?

@Braiam there is much to be said for not adding unneeded complexity

8:37 PM

@FaheemMitha mails that go to users that don't actually have accounts on the system

at least with Exim, it's a fair bit more complexity depending on what else you're doing (e.g., do you have per-user filtering with sieve? Per-user spamassassin settings? Do you now need a redis instance as well for bayes? Etc.)

anyway, I'm getting lunch

bbl

@Braiam Oh. Is that useful?

@FaheemMitha depends on your use case

@Braiam What is an example use case?

small office mail server?

8:41 PM

@Faheem it seems while I try to install the kernel, apt-get removes these: task-desktop, task-xfce-desktop, xserver-xorg-input-all, xserver-xorg-input-vmmous. Should this be the reason I couldn't get back to the graphic interface after installing a kernel?

vmmouse

@Dinir Hmm. Does it only remove those?

Yes. I'll paste the terminal texts...

Suggested packages:
  linux-doc-4.4 debian-kernel-handbook
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  task-desktop task-xfce-desktop xserver-xorg-input-all
  xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  linux-image-4.4.0-trunk-amd64
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 4 to remove and 11 not upgraded.
Need to get 35.4 MB of archives.
After this operation, 174 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y

What does aptitude do, by way of comparison?

...I typed aptitude for first time after started using linux.

Removing those packages is harmless, I think. Unless you happen to be using XFCE, perhaps.

8:44 PM

I am using xfce...?

so it's harmful now...

@Dinir Is that a question or a statement?

@Faheem sorry, it's a statement with improper question mark!

I could install them again after installing the kernel and everything will be fine...?

and aptitude doesn't show 4.4 kernel, I think I should add repositories for experimental for aptitude as well.

Those are mostly meta-packages. I don't think that is an issue.

@Braiam I guess you're talking about meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/316503/… ? This attitude is part of why I don't hang around SO much. Why do they sacralize errors in answers so much?

@Faheem okay, I'll install the kernel then.

8:47 PM

It would nice if Anthony could give his opinion, but I guess he's at lunch.

@Gilles hahahaha, I'm using the "putting OP code in a pedestal" instead of "sacralize" on a new meta q I'm doing, but I think yours sound better, through some people would need their dictionaries

@Gilles I guess their thinking is that one should not make significant content changes to other people's posts. I can see both point of view here.

One pov would be - post your own answer if you want to make significant changes. However, if you just want to correct a point of detail, then posting an entire new answer isn't warranted.

@muru An alternative would be to add your proposed change as a comment. Then at least people would see it.

the problem with that philosophy is: how much of a change is too much?

Gonna reboot.

and lo and behold that has it own set of problems too meta.stackoverflow.com/q/315446/792066

8:52 PM

@Braiam does it fundamentally change the answer, or does it improve a minor point?

For example, if the question was “how do I restart Apache”, muru's edit would have been a fundamentally different answer.

@Braiam I usually only make edits that are grammar changes and typos.

@Gilles yes, that I would agree

But for this question, where restarting Apache is a side point, correcting the method that might not work in the next version to one that's worked on every Ubuntu version and will keep working in the foreseeable future is an improvement and is not a fundamental change to the answer.

which is mine and muru's point of view

and mine, I must have ranted dozens of times on MSO

I think over time my position has become less and less popular

8:56 PM

@muru Wow, you really have 1500 answers on AU? I'm impressed.

I miss Joel, his initial vision was that people would edit answers to improve them over time, but that hardly ever happens

I still think that adding it as a comment is a reasonable alternative.

@Gilles Well, the rewards system works against that.

It does not encourage collaboration.

and then when someone flags the comment and gets deleted mods say: all important information have to be on the Q/A themselves

which is a catch22

@Braiam I rarely have comments deleted.

And I don't usually see other comments deleted either.

I remember a guy that made his pet project posting secure PHP answers to popular but old questions

8:59 PM

@Braiam That's a hell of a hobby.

this one meta.stackoverflow.com/q/293930/792066

I got the sound issue... solved.

Still wi-fi are not seems working.

@Dinir Ok. Post an answer then. What did you do?

installing kernel 4.4 was only thing I did.

not touched any configuration after installing debian again.

@Dinir Oh. Well, post that, then.

9:02 PM

it's so device-specific...

@Dinir Well, your question is device-specific.

It might save some poor bastard days of hairpulling sometime in the next few months.

Post it. I'll upvote it.

Give details of what exactly you did, including what version you installed.

Is X working with 4.4 or not? I remember you had a problem before.

I have a problem about X not working when I install 4.3.0

But not with 4.4 I think. @Faheem

@FaheemMitha I would have added a comment, but I'd checked their profile and saw OP hadn't been around for over a year. So only a small chance of them applying the change.

@Dinir Ah, interesting. I wonder why that is.

And honestly, if this had been U&L or AU and someone posted a near-identical answer replacing service over /etc/init.d, I'd have told them to suggest an edit. :/

9:13 PM

@muru Well, other people would see it, though.

@muru Agreed. In this case, another answer would make no sense.

@Dinir Anyway, post an answer.

Does 4.4 appear to be running normally?

@Faheem Sure thing. I am currently writing the answer now.

So: my next immediate goal on Stack Exchange: get 3k on Stack Overflow, 2k on Super User.

@Dinir Ok.

@muru A probably better goal: graduate. :-)

Are you still a student?

@muru I got both done :P

@FaheemMitha till June, anyway. :D That's slowly but steadily creeping along to the target.

@Braiam Sigh. None of the other privileges really compare to being able to directly apply edits.

9:16 PM

@muru Ok. How are things in Powai? Hey, we're neighbors! You should stop by and have lunch sometime. Do you IITians ever come to South Bombay?

@muru True. Wanting to do < 6 char edits and not being able to do so is massively frustrating.

@FaheemMitha usually when we get drunk and decide to roam. :) Since my home is in Kalyan, my roaming tends to be towards that area.

@muru So, away rather than towards? :-)

How do you like being in an IIT, anyway? Say on a scale of 0 to 10.

Yep. Though, looking at the time, a midnight snack would be more appropriate than lunch. :P

7 for Bombay, 8 for Guwahati.

@muru You've been at a different IIT before?

Graduated from IIT Guwahati, MTech here.

9:20 PM

@muru I see. Surprised you didn't leave India then.

That's what many of your colleagues do, as I'm sure you are aware.

Switching fields. I studied Mechanical Engineering there. Now doing CS. I doubted my ability to get a decent MS opportunity in CS outside with 6.x CPI.

@FaheemMitha yep. Many would consider doing an MTech from an IIT a step backwards.

@muru I see.

@muru Well, I don't think your institution is as important as what you do...

@muru What is 6.x CPI?

My grade. Depending on where you are, you might call it GPA

@FaheemMitha what should be and what is... That's the perception, anyway. :(

@muru Oh.

Or do you call it something else altogether? :D

9:29 PM

@muru Who, me? I don't call it anything. I don't think much about grades.

I think in the US they call it GPA, yes.

Grade Point Average. No doubt everyone has their own terminology.

@FaheemMitha based on meta.unix.stackexchange.com/a/2670/70524, I'd ballpark you at around 5-10 years older than me, so I'd hope you wouldn't need to think too much about grades. (Nor me, by that time.)

@muru I've never thought much about grades, really. Or as little as I could manage.

Let us banish the g-word from this device, then! :)

What do you do, nowadays?

@muru Not much, really.

Ah, the ideal life.

Goodnight, @Faheem!

10:15 PM

@Faheem Completed posting the answer. Now I can try solve the wi-fi problem.

@Dinir Upvoted.

10:32 PM

here we go meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/316546/…

10:54 PM

I removed iface wlan0 inet dhcp in /etc/network/interfaces and restarted NetworkManaer, and now Wi-Fi also works.

I can make answer to my question about wi-fi, but this time it would be less clearer compared to the answer about sound.

@Dinir /etc/network/interfacesshould work too.

@Dinir Well, any information is better than none.

Did you install some firmware too? Mention that if you did.

@Faheem yes, I think if I use wpa_supplicant, setting wlan0 on /etc/network/interfaces would helped.

@FaheemMitha I remember I have done 'installing firmware', 'installing backports' before installing the kernel.

Oh, this is the reply feature. I didn't know that...

@Dinir Did you remove the backport?

I encourage you to write an answer, but try to make it as complete and accurate as possible.

@FaheemMitha when I kept the change on interfaces I saw the message on the notification bar telling 'device not managed'. And I found this post. unix.stackexchange.com/questions/121356/…

@FaheemMitha I kept the backports. Maybe I can see if it still work by uninstalling the backports?

@Dinir Yes, that would be a good idea. Maybe first check what modules are being loaded. And make sure you know what backport was installed. In case you want to put it back.

@Dinir I'm not really a fan of NetworkManager.

11:10 PM

I was thinking about making a post on wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn, where people with specific computer tells about how to install debian on their computers.

@Dinir Yes, that's a good idea. You could do that too.

Since there is no post for 500S, and it was a decent notebook I could find for $800 in internet shopping mall, I believe the amount of the user for this computer will eventually rise.

@Dinir Sure.

@FaheemMitha At first I thought debian doesn't use NetworkManager at all and it's only for Ubuntu... I anyway wanted to use programs that comes with initial installation. Maybe, if it works, it's the safest bet for a beginner?

Any information would could help others is good.

@Dinir Debian doesn't use NetworkManager by default. The /etc/network/interfaces is more manual and less "magical".

That's how I generally prefer things. I don't like stuff that does things behind my back.

But (disclaimer) I've never used NetworkManager.

11:15 PM

@FaheemMitha I could agree with this. I think if I get more familiar with this OS I could eventually starts to use such programs over magical ones.

@FaheemMitha I don't know if it's default or not, but when I added 'Notification Area' item in Panel, suddenly a network notification appeared and it seems to be connected with NetworkManager.

Maybe it's default when I use Debian+xfce?