2016 Science Fiction & Fantasy Moderator Election

1:45 PM

I'm tempted to nominate myself just because of having a primary. Can't we request one with just one nomination short? — SQB 1 min ago

Mike Edenfield

how many people would we eliminate in the primary if the goal is to get down to 10?

Ixrec

I'd kinda prefer we not waste time on a primary tbh

SQB

2

A: How many moderator positions are open?

There are presently 10 candidates standing for 2 vacant moderator positions Given that the addition of one more candidate would allow us to move to a primary (and a further 4 days for the wider community to become involved in the election process) I hope at least one more candidate will choose...

But I take the election too serious to run only to have a primary.

But I feel some time between nominations and election would be a good thing.

rand al'thor

I don't really understand the point of having a primary.

Ixrec

I'm not sure 4 days of getting "the wider community" to vote on who the worst candidate is would be all that constructive

(of course if we had more like 20 candidates then it'd be useful ofc)

SQB

1:54 PM

Not for the primary itself, but for the extra time it gives.

rand al'thor

Say Arvin G Borkar or Mithrandir gets eliminated from the running. How would that change anything in the real election?

Loong

@SQB it would not give extra time.

The last 8 days are either divided between the Primary and the Election, or just are the Election as a whole.

SQB

@Loong Ah, I didn't know that.

Mike Edenfield

Jan 20 at 20:23, by Mike Edenfield

if the election skips the primary phase and goes right to phase 3 does it end earlier?

SQB

Okay, that wraps up the discussion then.

Mike Edenfield

1:55 PM

Jan 20 at 20:27, by Loong

@MikeEdenfield no, see here: http://meta.stackexchange.com/a/171322/271002

Ixrec

the MSE FAQ post about election proceedings doesn't mention that detail

rand al'thor

@Ixrec I think it's mentioned somewhere on the election page itself.

Mike Edenfield

the election page has an "end date".

rand al'thor

I was aware of that fact before seeing the MSE FAQ post.

Ixrec

election begins
tomorrow
election ends
in 9 days

I guess it sort of does

Mike Edenfield

1:56 PM

the end date being posted before they know if there's a primary or not; if anything, skipping the primary would make the election end earlier than the posted date.

@randal'thor I think it would be an interesting milestone for us to have finally grown to the point where we need a primary -- we've never had one.

but mechanically, no, there's no point.

rand al'thor

We already have more candidates than ever before, don't we?

Mike Edenfield

yes, by 1.

our three prior elections had 9, 7, and 8 candidates.

rand al'thor

And there's no obvious winner (which I think there was last year?)

Mike Edenfield

maybe they should tweak the primary rules to say, e.g. if there are more than 12 candidates the primary narrows it down to 8.

rand al'thor

That would make more sense.

Mike Edenfield

2:04 PM

that way, its not like we can go "one over" the limit and have the issue that one person's being singled out as "worst"

rand al'thor

It would be worse if everyone really wanted the job though. Arvin or Mithrandir probably wouldn't mind being weeded out (Mithrandir even started his nomination with "I won't win")

Ixrec

being "first" in the primary doesn't count for anything, right?

Loong

@MikeEdenfield If you want to, you can find the "worst" candidate in the results even without a primary: opavote.com/results/6319710861787136/0

Ixrec

yeah, but having an entire phase of the election which does nothing but eliminate that "worst" candidate is a bit different

Mike Edenfield

@Loong true, but 1. those are harder to find, and 2. that doesn't actually "rank" the candidates, it just stops when it gets 2 right?

Loong

2:11 PM

@MikeEdenfield yes, sure

Mike Edenfield

anyway, it's an idea, no harm in suggesting it

Loong

Hm, last year, a candidate needed at least 169 votes to be directly elected in the first round.

Mike Edenfield

I didn't think that many people voted ahaha

we have better turnout that the US presidential elections

maybe those elections should last 4 days

rand al'thor

Didn't we have about 500 voters last year?

Yep, 505.

@Loong How is that threshold calculated? I thought it was a fixed number (maybe decided on beforehand by SE staff), but it changes from one round to the next.

Loong

2:31 PM

@randal'thor The threshold is reduced when some votes are exhausted because some voters did not indicate a next preference.

rand al'thor

Ah, I see.

Where does the original number come from?

Loong

@randal'thor opavote.com/methods#single-transferable-vote

rand al'thor

Thanks! [goes to read]

Loong

Droop quota

The Droop quota is the quota most commonly used in elections held under the single transferable vote (STV) system. It is also sometimes used in elections held under the largest remainder method of party-list proportional representation (list PR). In an STV election the quota is the minimum number of votes a candidate must receive in order to be elected. Any votes a candidate receives above the quota are transferred to another candidate. The Droop quota was devised in 1868 by the English lawyer and mathematician Henry Richmond Droop (1831–1884) as a replacement for the earlier Hare quota. Today...

Napoleon Wilson

Above all, the most important thing about a primary is that it makes the awfully long election period much more exciting by splitting it into two periods with varied voting mechanics. I think you all underestimate how boring it is to sit there for 8 days and wait for something to happen. Two times 4 days with a milestone between is way more exciting! ;-)

Mike Edenfield

2:47 PM

then maybe there should always be a primary.

x% of the candidates move on up to a maximum of 10

you can change your vote up to the last minute right? so people who vote before I post my Q&A answers can go back and unvote for me? :)

Napoleon Wilson

@MikeEdenfield Um, they can, but probably won't. ;-P Seriously, in the one election I actively nominated the bulk of voting has been done before a majority of candidates even answered those questions (let alone some of them never bothered to do so). The sad truth is that most voters probably won't give a crap about those questions.

But preparing your answers beforehand and answering as fast as possible surely won't hurt.

Mike Edenfield

that sucks.

I have them all written.

SQB

@NapoleonWilson And that is why I'd like to see some time between nominations and election; let's call it "campaign".

Not to be confused with the time after winning an election, called "champagne".

Napoleon Wilson

@SQB But as clarified, the time won't change from a primary at all.

rand al'thor

@NapoleonWilson Last year I think I changed my decision on who to vote for after seeing people's answers to those questions.

Mike Edenfield

2:55 PM

except for @phantom42's question. leave it to him to ask the really hard one

rand al'thor

Or maybe I didn't actually change it, but I definitely took those answers into serious consideration.

Napoleon Wilson

@randal'thor Yeah, I never said there aren't considerate voters who really care about the election. But they're the minority.

SQB

@NapoleonWilson Yes, so a primary is not the answer.

Loong

33

Q: Make moderator election questionnaire mandatory

Note: Before I even begin, I want to stress that this is for the next election, not the current one. I can understand why candidates may want to opt out of the moderator election chat room - for some people chat is just not their thing, and it is not an official moderator duty IIRC. But I c...

Napoleon Wilson

I also waited until the last moment of primary with all my votes, giving people a chance to answer the questionaire.

rand al'thor

2:56 PM

@MikeEdenfield Are we even sure yet which questions will be chosen?

phantom42

@MikeEdenfield what'd i do now? the one about getting policies noticed?

SQB

@phantom42 Which was a question I was trying to formulate as well, so thank you for asking it.

Napoleon Wilson

@randal'thor You can make a good guess by their votes. They'll just chose the 8 top-voted questions.

rand al'thor

@NapoleonWilson And there's two in equal 8th place. Does that mean a CM will cast a tiebreaker vote?

Napoleon Wilson

@randal'thor Oh, that would be great. Think about the impartiality, kids! ;-)

rand al'thor

2:59 PM

Well, the tie has to be broken somehow.

When do the questions get chosen? At the end of the nomination period?

Napoleon Wilson

@randal'thor When the nomination period is over they'll create a meta question with all the questions to be answered in answers.

rand al'thor

So anyone who wants to break the tie just has to wait until 19:59 on Monday and vote on one of those two equal-8th answers :-P

Loong

@NapoleonWilson "We reserve some editorial control in the selection of the questions and may opt not to select a question that is tangential or irrelevant to moderation or the election."

Napoleon Wilson

@Loong Ah, makes sense.

Mike Edenfield

yeah I've written answers to the top 10, plus the 2 that are guaranteed to be there.

@phantom42 you asked a question that I've literally been thinking about for months without a good answer.

rand al'thor

3:05 PM

I just need to convince Cotter Mike's supporters to vote for me over Denys M-alex-ster and vice versa, take the last few votes from Jason Slynt, and I'm in.

Mike Edenfield

I'm already predicting an early Jason Baker win

Mithrandir

...I won't. Don't vote for me.

rand al'thor

"The rest was arrowheads. A torrent of arrowheads, a flood of arrowheads, enough to drown the last few stones and shells, and all the copper pennies too."

Mike Edenfield

bonus of nominating myself first: I got in before the trend of explaining why not to vote for me.

4

Mithrandir

( I am most certainly not using reverse psychology.)

phantom42

3:08 PM

@MikeEdenfield yeah, i have too. so far, i think that the closing of old versions as dupes, and a mention in the help section is our best bet, but it's still not going to be enough. the issue with conflicting decisions when they're not super specific is still a tough one

like gilles very broad definition of scope versus some of the more specific answers

rand al'thor

bonus of nominating myself last: I'm top of the list on the nomination page!

Napoleon Wilson

@randal'thor Until they random shuffle the whole thing for election, muahahaha!

Mike Edenfield

@phantom42 I have one interesting idea that I'm blatently stealing from @NapoleonWilson

rand al'thor

@MikeEdenfield And Richard picked me up on that one. But the 1200-character limit is SUCH a pain :-/

My nomination is 1199 characters, so hard to edit.

Mike Edenfield

mine's 1178 I think.

after I shortened my URLs

Napoleon Wilson

3:11 PM

@MikeEdenfield Which would be...?

Mike Edenfield

@NapoleonWilson you'll just have to wait for my Q&A answers cuz I don't wanna give @randal'thor any hints.

rand al'thor

@MikeEdenfield I put in URLs too, but ended up removing them altogether.

@MikeEdenfield [covers eyes]

Napoleon Wilson

@MikeEdenfield I see. But I don't really remember having ever done anything special to call policies into the community's mind at all. So I'm quite excited to see what you're referring to.

phantom42

Mike Edenfield

@NapoleonWilson I dunno if you did it specifically, I just first saw it on M&TV.

Mike Edenfield

4:05 PM

huh. what's the character limit on SE posts?

Napoleon Wilson

@MikeEdenfield From a recent discussion it apparently seems to be 30,000.

Ixrec

30k?

Mike Edenfield

oh, ok.

my Q&A responses are up to 12,000 characters.

Napoleon Wilson

@MikeEdenfield Including the quoted questions?

Mike Edenfield

yes.

Napoleon Wilson

4:08 PM

Sounds reasonable.

Jason Baker

5:06 PM

@Mithrandir I've been meaning to ask: you don't seem to think you'd be any good at moderating; why did you run?

Mithrandir

5:57 PM

@JasonBaker Tsk, tsk. Don't you understand making a joke?

Jason Baker

SSumner

I think it's interesting how the meta q&a responses basically tell you the results of the election. Most people on those seem to vote for the person, not the post

@JasonBaker awww I was going to star that

Jason Baker

Heh, sorry

How do you mean about the Q&A, though?

SSumner

Last year the votes seemed to indicate how people would vote in the actual election

Even though some people had similar "platforms", there would be differing responses (votes) to those answers

Jason Baker

I think that's fair on some level

I mean, you need to trust your moderators

Mithrandir

6:11 PM

@JasonBaker it's not that i think i'd make a BAD mod, i just think that some of the other candidates could do a better job.

Jason Baker

@Mithrandir Well, I can't criticize that point of view

Napoleon Wilson

@Mithrandir Let's say the joke's a bit stretched and might not make you look as good a candidate as it might have been intended to.

Mithrandir

@NapoleonWilson streeeetch Eh. I actually don't EXPECT to win, sooo....

Napoleon Wilson

Well, so much to that...

Mithrandir

:P

Based on the nomination thing, would you expect me to win?

Jason Baker

6:16 PM

Based on the one you wrote? No

Bluntly

Napoleon Wilson

@Mithrandir Well, no. But at least I would expect you expecting you to win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jason Baker

But outside candidates have won before

I remember reading about how Tim Post was an unlikely candidate, but still ended up winning

21

A: Why is there a primary election?

I was elected as an underdog in the 2011 election, in fact the first Stack Overflow election to utilize our built in moderator election system (other smaller sites had used it previously). I also didn't think I stood much of a chance of being elected, after all, I only had a small percentage of t...

Mithrandir

@NapoleonWilson If I don't expect to win, I don't have my hopes crushed.

Mike Edenfield

huh.

fun fact: alexwlchan is the only nominee with a gold tag badge.

Jason Baker

Hm

SQB

6:53 PM

How do our current mods score?

Jason Baker

Candidate score?

Ixrec

4

A: Finding out your Candidate Score

Here is the Query run for the current site mods. User Link Total CappedRep BadgeCount ModBadges EditingBadges ParticipationBadges ---------------- ----- --------- ---------- --------- ------------- ------------------- Kevin 36 20 16 5 5 ...

Jason Baker

4

A: Finding out your Candidate Score

Here is the Query run for the current site mods. User Link Total CappedRep BadgeCount ModBadges EditingBadges ParticipationBadges ---------------- ----- --------- ---------- --------- ------------- ------------------- Kevin 36 20 16 5 5 ...

Echo...

Napoleon Wilson

@SQB You can take a look at previous years' election pages for that.

SQB

A, nice. I was gonna say I'd run the SEDE after eating.

Thanks.

Keen

7:20 PM

@SQB Keep in mind that it'll tell you what our current scores are, not what our scores would have been back when we were elected.

SQB

@Keen That's exactly what I want, the current scores.

Keen

On top of that, being a moderator warps which badges you'll earn. There's less reason to raise flags when you're handling them, and have the power to handle most anything.

SQB

Not that I will hold those against you :)

@Keen I saw you're close to getting copy editor.

Eight more edits.

Keen

Which is weird, since I don't take the time to clean up many posts. I'm surprised I got this much progress towards the badge.

Loong

@Keen and mods cannot receive Deputy and Marshal badges

Napoleon Wilson

7:29 PM

@Loong Which is very bad, since they actually can flag stuff and even should do so now and then.

Keen

@Loong Really? Wow.

Loong

@Keen see: meta.stackexchange.com/a/146173/271002

Keen

No, I believe you, I just was surprised that SE took that step.

Ixrec

anyone know why that restriction is in place?

Ixrec

7:48 PM

seems unlikely someone trustworthy enough to get elected moderator would be the type to do stupid things just to get a badge

Jason Baker

Besides which, mods can still progress towards the badge

It just won't be awarded

Keen

That you earn the badge retroactively once you cease being a mod is the part that's especially weird to me. If you took the steps to earn the badge nefariously while you were a mod, then you'd end up with it either way.

Mithrandir

Another 10 helpful flags till i get my Deputy badge.

Mike Edenfield

@Keen consolation prize?

Mithrandir

...2 flags waiting for review still.

Ixrec

7:57 PM

I'd guess because it's not really feasible to implement that properly short of not allowing you to ever earn the badges if you ever become a mod?

though I have no idea how flag data is stored in the DB

and yeah it seems to miss any point it might have to ban the badges

Mithrandir

@Keen does handling a flag count as one towards the badge?

Keen

@Mithrandir No, you need a mod to clear the flag. The nefarious bit comes in because I bet a mod could raise a flag and then clear it.

That's why the badge description says 'Raise X helpful flags'. A mod determines if the flag was helpful or not when they clear it. If you spam a bunch of bad flags, you won't get progress towards the badge.

Mithrandir

@Keen yeah, i knew that

facepalm they're still pending...

Mike Edenfield

i did my part :)

Keen

@Mithrandir Hey, we're busy chatting, I can't clear flags now! :p

3

Mithrandir

8:05 PM

@Keen Touche.

Keen

FWIW, over the past month, the average flag handling time was just shy of 2 hours.

Mithrandir

O_O

Eeerrr... One is basically at 2 hours now.

Ixrec

are there hours where no mods are active?

Keen

@Ixrec Yeah, when we're all ~~recharging~~ sleeping.

Mithrandir

We still need one more candidate so that we can have the primary...

Keen

8:07 PM

So, whenever it's the middle of the night in both the US and UK.

Ixrec

I thought we didn't want a primary

Mithrandir

We do.

Jason Baker

It's not that we don't want one, it just wouldn't be terribly useful

Mike Edenfield

its not that we "want" one so much as it would be nice to be big enough to "need" one.

but having people run just to force one is silly

Keen

I'd want a primary if we suddenly got 5 more candidates. But just barely getting past the line so one person gets culled is pretty pointless.

2

Mithrandir

8:10 PM

I read a post on Meta that said that the primary was one of the most important parts...

Ixrec

I have a feeling even if we did have a primary there'd be 2-3 people tied for the bottom and I don't know how that would go

@Mithrandir for elections that have dozens of candidates, yes

Napoleon Wilson

5 hours ago, by Napoleon Wilson

Above all, the most important thing about a primary is that it makes the awfully long election period much more exciting by splitting it into two periods with varied voting mechanics. I think you all underestimate how boring it is to sit there for 8 days and wait for something to happen. Two times 4 days with a milestone between is way more exciting! ;-)

2

Mike Edenfield

gaming.stackexchange.com/election/2?tab=election

^-- that election confuses me.

it says "12 candidates" in all 3 phases. I count 11 in nomination and 8 in the primary and election phases.

Ixrec

I like how the candidate with the fewest primary votes has since become a mod

2

Mike Edenfield

that's why I started looking at it; that election was linked to a question on meta.se about changing the primary rules and when i looked at it the numbers didn't make any sense.

Keen

8:18 PM

@Ixrec You mean, he got a job.

@MikeEdenfield I wonder if someone withdrew, or was removed by SE.

Transcript for

2016 Science Fiction & Fantasy Modera…