The Whiteboard

4:03 PM

Questions that ask "where do I start" are typically too broad and are not a good fit for this site. People have their own method for approaching the problem and because of this there cannot be a correct answer. Give a good read over Where to Start, then address your post. — DavidG 37 secs ago

enderland

On the contrary, I think proposing a hyperbole of a scenario and the concerns it presents then well-defines what happens in much more "real" scenarios. I firmly believe learning from absolutes is more revealing than learning by simple "what ifs". As did several other users, I learned something and did so by attracting attention to a question that would otherwise have been neglected. — Qix 34 secs ago

sigh

@Rachel I have no desire to start an edit war on a question which basically is a single sentence, "how many characters are still available in UTF-8?" question dressed up to be a commentary about an alien invasion and other irrelevant text... — enderland 5 secs ago

Rachel

Hello :)

@GlenH7 @enderland I don't mind a difference of opinion, but figured I'd stop by chat in case you wanted to discuss whatever without having to use comment threads :)

otherwise if you're good, figured I'd just say Hi

Ampt

@AshleyNunn just finished the second book. (I still have the epilogue left)

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

so many questions left unanswered

@Rachel hello! We seem to be seeing a lot of you lately :)

Rachel

@Ampt work is boring me to tears :)

enderland

it's not a battle I care about fighting @Rachel. the question is completely a clickbait question which has 3/4 of its text irrelevant

Rachel

4:16 PM

and the reopen experiment and realization that I can re-cast expired reopen votes has me a little more active on the site than I normally am... figure this site has few enough edit-and-reopeners so I'd join in

Ampt

@enderland I think you know why

@JimmyHoffa honestly, not a huge fan of either

Rachel

@enderland thats fine. I just see nothing wrong with using an interesting subject to make a dull explanation more interesting. Jon Skeet uses fruit, Eric Lippart uses animals, and apparently Qix uses Aliens :)

@Rachel: You are welcome! Jon Skeet usually uses bowls, fruit, apples and bananas when answering this question; I usually use cages, animals, giraffes and tigers, which is more exciting. A paddock full of giraffes cannot be used as an animal cage because you could put a tiger into it, which would eat the giraffes. Which raises the question: would a tiger actually try to eat a giraffe? Giraffes kick pretty hard. — Eric Lippert Sep 11 '14 at 16:46

Ampt

Frack, there was an awesome gif of a giraffe curb stomping a lion on reddit the other day too.

you could almost see the regret in the lionness' face as the hoof came down on her mid-jump

Rachel

@Ampt I saw that gif...

Ampt

@Rachel Pretend I just linked it here

Rachel

4:21 PM

that lion got ... can I say fucked up on here? :)

I'm usually a reddit browser on slow work days

Ampt

You can swear all you want - the curmudgeons usually frown on flashy gifs or giant pictures, but swear words and scotch are kind of our thing

Rachel

haha ok, and yeah I'm not a huge fan of giant images

right now, it could be a work-related conversation, but giant flashy gifs are definitely not

Ampt

most of us have this open on a second monitor at work, and while I can get away with having nyancat playing 24/7 on my desk, others, not so much.

Rachel

(I used to use DBA chat a lot when I was in charge of a MS SQL database at my last job)

If I'm at home I can get away with it... but I'm in the office today :)

its so quiet with this being a short week and half my team on vacation

Ampt

ha, same here. I'm the only one in my row

and everyone else has off tomorrow, so I'm gonna work from home :D

Jimmy Hoffa

4:25 PM

@Rachel have you tried openly weeping at your desk? I've heard that's a thing people do sometimes, maybe it would make work more fun? :D

enderland

enderland is working 1/2 days today and tomorrow from home

Ampt

@enderland "Working"

Rachel

I'll be home the rest of the week, but we've been asked to come into the office more so today was my one day this week

enderland

@Ampt I actually feel crappy today, I probably could have called it a sick day. meh

user15026

@ampt yeah, book 2 leaves you with a lot of questions. Book 3 does an excellent job of wrapping it all up though. :)

Ampt

4:43 PM

@AshleyNunn Ok, one question I have though - when Becks and Shaun are in the garden - is he implying what I think he's implying?

about his sister and him?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt whoa whoa whoa, delete that shit

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa Spoilers?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt no, just troubling implications. It's not even 10 on a Tuesday for cris'sake

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa It's a book ya prude

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt yak

Ampt

4:50 PM

@JimmyHoffa besides, it's very ambiguous as it is - which is why I questioned it in the first place

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt I'm going with - they had a nice cuppa and exchanged christmas gifts

Ampt

honestly it feels a little bit like retconning - never even touched that subject in the first book, despite numerous opportunities to do so.

user15026

@ampt yes, he is.

user15026

(bonus points for catching that, before the proper reveal)

Ampt

@AshleyNunn am I wrong about feeling like it wasn't a part of the first book in any way shape or form?

Sure it's taboo, but I can get past that, but the whole lead up to that conversation was just... idk, not there at all?

also the reveal about what would have happened had he not pulled the trigger

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

also also, odds that there's going to be some spooky dooky supernatural explanation that Georgia is actually an angel protecting shaun and not actually a figment of his imagination: 10:1

Rachel

5:00 PM

what books are you talking about?

Ampt

@Rachel Newsflesh series

pretty good all in all

enderland

@Ampt I think the takewaway is jimmy doesn't read. :)

user15026

@ampt it was kinda if you think about how they were always together and stuff kinds

Rachel

hrm I might have to look into it

I read a lot ...

Elizabeth

5:19 PM

@MichaelT Does this mean it IS a best practice to encrypt all your data? And of course like you said the URIs. Since I plan on using php to hash all data that is inputted in and requested.

@MichaelT Like preventing injections, xxs and authentication access only?

Ampt

@AshleyNunn IDK it was very fraternal the whole book, then all of a sudden BAM

And because of the perspective of the books, it's almost like they were in denial about it

also, his reaction about people "Normally getting that look on their face" when he sees her reaction means that other people knew at one point or another

Elizabeth

@MichaelT But why and when might there be a situation where somebody wants to make their database directly and publicly accessible?

Ampt

which was totally not even hinted at in the first book

I think I'm more upset because it's not consistent with the first book than anything else lol

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron is no longer allowed on SE is he?

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Likely not during work hours

Ampt

5:28 PM

:(

that's no fun

Kind off the same with @MichaelT being limited to his phone.

user41796

Stupid jobs killing off our chat room fun

enderland

> kill -9 job

whatsisname

(removed)

user55340

@GlenH7 Vacation this week.

user55340

But that also means "doing all those things that involve not being at work" like "get insurance juggled correctly" and "move water softener and freezer to basement"

user41796

5:33 PM

details, details

user55340

@Elizabeth Traffic to and from databases are rarely encrypted. And the login is always there.

user55340

Also having a publicly accessible database means you lose a lot of the optimizations that a server can do like connection pools and prepared statement caching (for those connections)

user55340

The other thing with a publicly accessible database is that its like having the data structure itself public - you can't change it.

user55340

You want to ~~refactor~~ normalize a table? Too bad. Sure you can do some things with views, but that just means you've got all of these backwards commutable views which are a nightmare to maintain.

user55340

@Ampt There are times when I'll get in on a conversation with chat, but I don't want to leave those web sockets to chat.somesite.com open for any length of time.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:38 PM

> Vacation week todo list:
> ---install 10'x10'x3' killing bay---
> sprinkle fake snow on gingerbread zombie apocalypse house
> ---reconstruct entire set of 1981 olympic long jump---
> fake injury in reconstructed olympic set
> imagine being worf from Star Wars
> ---chase raccoons out of dormant housing unit---
> chase raccoons back into dormant housing unit to keep squatters out
> invent diagonal shower stall
> ---create shed out of legos---
> fly shed away with 1:1 lego huey replica
> -MichaelT

user41796

@gnat - I wouldn't bother participating in the rollback war. Just flag for moderator intervention and let them fix it

Elizabeth

@MichaelT Maybe I am misunderstanding the definition of publicly accessible database ... because I can find no reason or situation where and why any developer would want to make their database publicly accessible. Since even me as a novice knows that is dangerous.

enderland

worf from star wars? blasphemous

user55340

(back to databases) - the thing to do is figure out what queries you need, and put a rest (or soap, or whatever you prefer) service in front of that and then limit the access through the database to the rest service itself.

user55340

@Elizabeth Because it means that you don't need to design that intermediate service. It lets them cut a lot of corners. Corners that will come back to bite them hard.

user55340

5:40 PM

You don't need to think about what you will actually need, and you decidedly ignore that you'll need to scale up the database at some point. You just say "there's a database there, and here's this arbitrary query that I want to run on it"

user41796

Aaaaand thanks to this little fiasco, I've decided to leave Stack Exchange for good after spending almost a quarter of my entire life on here. Hope shit turns around! Peace. — Qix 1 min ago

user41796

^^^ And that, folks, is why we don't like fun around here. Not to mention the revision history

user55340

Giving access to the database allows you to lop off a lot of thought of design. And if you're after "quick to market android game", well... stick MySQL up on a cloud and wrap the connection classes into your app and pretend everything will be ok.

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: hunt ninja turtles -MichaelT

user55340

Key point: practical questions.

user41796

5:43 PM

@JimmyHoffa ninja turtle soup?

Thomas Owens

What the hell is going on with that Unicode question?

user41796

@MichaelT I'm a bit annoyed at his rolling back the edits I made to remove the sensationalism

user55340

A 16 year old (1/4 of live at 4 years) wants to ask a question about aliens.

user41796

@MichaelT You said it more nicely than I did

user55340

If it was a straight forward question about "how many glyphs are available for a hypothetical language in unicode" - that would be something answerable and reasonable.

user55340

5:45 PM

Its a question about an alien invasion that the OP kept reverting the question to.

user41796

Versions 6 and 8 turned it into that. Quite a bit more boring to ask about though

Thomas Owens

I guess I don't see why any edits were necessary.

Underneath, it's still a good question.

Who cares about the wrapper?

user55340

It indeed can be a good question.

user55340

17

Q: Would UTF-8 be able to support the inclusion of a vast alien language with millions of new characters?

In the event an alien invasion occurred and we were forced to support their languages in all of our existing computer systems, is UTF-8 designed in a way to allow for their possibly vast amount of characters? (Of course, we do not know if aliens actually have languages, if or how they communicat...

user55340

There is no design question there.

user55340

5:46 PM

There's a world building question there.

Thomas Owens

Why do you need to edit out "alien language"?

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: ~~make transformers~~ -MichaelT

user55340

Because I really don't want to be encouraging questions about alien programming languages too.

Thomas Owens

Aside from wording...it's still the same question.

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: make transformers self aware -MichaelT

Thomas Owens

5:46 PM

@MichaelT No one is encouraging anything of the sort.

user55340

> Get answers to practical, detailed questions

user55340

> Focus on questions about an actual problem you have faced. Include details about what you have tried and exactly what you are trying to do.

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/tour

user55340

The thing is there is a practical and answerable question there.

user55340

However, the wrapper is decidedly not a practical question that you actually have.

Thomas Owens

5:47 PM

Maybe the idea of an alien language isn't practical, but the idea of adding may glyphs to unicode is.

user55340

Attempts to make it into that question resulted in an edit war with the OP.

Thomas Owens

The wrapper isn't a question. And everyone can see through that.

The OP is not the one who is wrong here.

user55340

The wrapper isn't a practical question that we actually face.

Thomas Owens

Do any of the edits change how the question would be answered?

user55340

I am concerned that when such absurd hypotheticals are acceptable here, the types of questions we get will be world building rather than design.

Thomas Owens

5:49 PM

Again: Assume that both forms of the question were asked at the same time. Would they get different answers?

No, they wouldn't. Therefore, there's no real need to edit.

user55340

Then what is the problem with removing the absurd hypotheitcal tangent that isn't core to the actual question?

Aaron Hall

So how do you get to be a good software architect? Like Matrix persona quality? :)

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with it. But alone, it's not a good edit.

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: ~~invent time machine, go back and ask both questions at same time~~ -MichaelT

> Todo: nachos -MichaelT

user55340

@AaronHall Make lots of mistakes and learn from them.

Aaron Hall

5:50 PM

no, there's gotta be a better way :)

Thomas Owens

I would consider that edit to be a trivial edit.

Jimmy Hoffa

@AaronHall what does that mean - "Matrix" persona quality?

@AaronHall one tact is always to learn from other people's mistakes as well as your own.

Aaron Hall

You know, the "Architect" guy in the room with the monitors

user55340

> In the event an alien invasion occurred and we were forced to support their languages in all of our existing computer systems, is UTF-8 designed in a way to allow for their possibly vast amount of characters?

(Of course, we do not know if aliens actually have languages, if or how they communicate, but for the sake of the argument, please just imagine they do.)

user55340

Is that a good summary and lead in for the question?

Jimmy Hoffa

5:51 PM

@AaronHall ...that's a fictional character.

Aaron Hall

Yes, learn from other people's mistakes, that's better.

user55340

> I'm more interested in if the glyphs far outgrew the current size limitations and required more bytes to represent a single glyph. In the event UTF-8 could not be expanded, does that prove that the single advantage over UTF-32 is simply size of lower characters?

whatsisname

you get to be a good architect by having spent a lot of time as a bad one first

Thomas Owens

Yes, it's click baity.

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: reanimate colonol sanders and teach him software architecture -MichaelT

user55340

5:52 PM

That is a good question, but the first three paragraphs to the question have no bearing on the question itself.

Elizabeth

@MichaelT Well, I certainly don't want to do this... it wouldn't be worth it to sacrifice security for launch speed. Anyhow, could you describe in plain english what rest api means or is. I studied quite a bit on it and did numerous research but for some reason can't get the full picture in my head. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

enderland

@Qix that seems fairly strongly to suggest that your question is unclear, doesn't it... perhaps since the first 3/4 paragraphs are only asking about this (and not the glyph aspect - if that's the key part of your question why is there so much fluff in the question detracting from that point?)... — enderland 2 hours ago

user55340

@ThomasOwens Then lets focus the question to the actual, practical question that someone would face in designing a set of glyphs for unicode.

enderland

Aaaaand thanks to this little fiasco, I've decided to leave Stack Exchange for good after spending almost a quarter of my entire life on here. Hope shit turns around! Peace. — Qix 12 mins ago

Thomas Owens

@enderland How old would you need to be to spend 1/4 of your life on SE?

enderland

5:54 PM

@ThomasOwens I was just pondering that bwahahaha

> Member for 5 years

at least 20 years old

user55340

@Elizabeth REST is an idea for how to send requests and get answers back. Its short for Representative State Transfer. It answers the question of "how do I send the state (of the database) over the wire to something on the other end."

user55340

A nice example of it: petstore.swagger.io

whatsisname

rage quit

amon

Using aliens as an example subject does not make a question about the expandability of Unicode off-topic. This edit war is pathetic.

user55340

@amon It makes it clickbaity with an awful summary when you look at the front page.

Elizabeth

5:55 PM

@MichaelT Also "Traffic to and from databases are rarely encrypted." why is this so? Wouldn't it be safer if I did?

user55340

user41796

@amon but removing the unnecessary fluff allows the community to focus on the actual question to be answered

whatsisname

@Elizabeth: depends on what your database contains, and it's moot if you do everything over https anyway

user55340

@Elizabeth Because databases are in house tools that don't need the protection from snooping the traffic.

amon

Meh, on Code Review it's an unofficial sport to choose the most click baity title that still covers the topic

The essence “millions of new characters” is still there.

user41796

5:56 PM

@ThomasOwens - the fluff is there purely to drive votes. And, apparently, a lot of comments around the alien aspect and not the UTF-8 aspect

Aaron Hall

So what's the best way to learn from other peoples' mistakes?

enderland

Aaron Hall

Yeah, I don't want to be that guy. I want to collect all of those guys' stories...

user55340

There are many interesting questions that can be asked there - if asked in a... not absurd way. Questions about how to design unicode glyphs for combined characters. Or address space. Or sorting.

Thomas Owens

@GlenH7 The use of fluff like that is common on other SE sites...and it works. It gets your question visible.

enderland

5:58 PM

@AaronHall be the submarine

@ThomasOwens there is relevant fluff, and there is irrelevant fluff

user55340

@ThomasOwens Do you want to have questions about alien programming languages and character sets be what people come here click on and say "this site is about..." ?

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT That's not going to happen.

user41796

@ThomasOwens and what's the point of putting it back after the question got the visibility and has begun to detract from the question?

user55340

We constantly have trouble with SO saying "this question is too soft, migrate it to P.SE"

Aaron Hall

This google search looks promising: "blog mistake software architecture"

user55340

5:59 PM

Its one thing to have soft questions... its another thing to say "ask questions about alien languages here"

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT No one is saying that...especially because this question is not about alien languages.

user55340

This question is closer to boat programming than the design questions that we should have.

Thomas Owens

Anyone who reads the question gets that.

amon

@MichaelT This site is about software development concepts. Including Unicode concepts. The question not about worldbuilding, but became popular for the same reason that many Worldbuilding.SE or Arqade.SE posts make it to the HNQ.

enderland

but that's the point. it's NOT ABOUT ALIEN LANGUAGES

user55340

6:00 PM

Then remove all the click bait fluff from it and make it a question about the amount of characters that one can produce with unicode.

Aaron Hall

Can we stop talking about aliens? - my own subject is much more interesting to me...

enderland

yet 3/4 the question is about alien invasions

Thomas Owens

@AaronHall You want to be an architect? How many monitors do you have?

amon

@enderland ITS ABOUT ETHICS IN GA… ah, forget it.

Aaron Hall

Two, but they're 23 inchers

enderland

6:01 PM

@amon ugh I said earlier I was not going to get into this discussion, too :P

2 hours ago, by enderland

it's not a battle I care about fighting @Rachel. the question is completely a clickbait question which has 3/4 of its text irrelevant

Thomas Owens

@AaronHall Double that. Both number and size.

user55340

Anyways... lunch and such.

Elizabeth

@MichaelT Right. This is how I see it. But isn't this a standard. Every developer uses this method / api to send requests and retrieve data.

Aaron Hall

I sense that's intended to be taken with a grain of salt.

Elizabeth

So when we say twitter api and facebook api ... it's just this restful api standard that every developer use with twitter's or facebook's data access restricted details implemented in ... so you could gain restricted access to their database?

Aaron Hall

6:06 PM

If it helps, I'm on my tablet too

user41796

@AaronHall So what were you trying to ask with "So what's the best way to learn from other peoples' mistakes?"

Aaron Hall

I dunno, I want to get better, but I tend to suffer from paralysis by analysis...

user41796

Code katas can be useful then

user41796

Think of them as the architect's version of project euler

whatsisname

@AaronHall: so do like I said, just start building some crap and see what works and what doesn't

practice makes perfect, there aren't any shortcuts to developing skill

Qix

6:10 PM

So I was going to just leave and leave it at that, but then I saw there was a discussion about my question and I felt responsible to at least explain the reasoning behind the "alien angle".

I learn to understand concepts often times by hyperbole. Crazy, edge case scenarios that completely encapsulate more "real world" scenarios in the event they exist. In my train of thought, if I can define what happens if we have to add an insurmountable number of characters to Unicode, that will likely allow me to understand a lot of "normal" or "real world" concepts surrounding the topic at hand.

And with that, I bid ye adieu.

whatsisname

@Qix: what's the point of pasting a big message in here if you are not going to read any responses?

user41796

@whatsisname So the rest of us can yawn in response.

user41796

Since I'm the curmudgeon here - it's nothing more than a self-entitled "I'm a special flower" type of rage quit. Qix already knew all the answers he wanted to hear and had zero interest in seeing the community's response. We're expected to wail and gnash our teeth and beg "please, don't go!"

amon

@Qix BTW, the answer to “how can I future-proof an UTF-8 aware parser” is “operate on code points (= uint32) or grapheme clusters internally, convert at system boundaries”.

user41796

Some time ago, MichaelT posted a link (probably from C2) on the ways people leave a community. This is just another variant of that.

user41796

6:15 PM

@Qix That's the best you can do for a rude flag?

Qix

Yep.

You're so caught up in the semantics of my question that you're willing to go so far as to call me out and discredit anything I have to say, just because.

Your attitude it what is wrong with Stack Exchange.

user41796

Thank you for confirming "Qix already knew all the answers he wanted to hear and had zero interest in seeing the community's response."

Aaron Hall

I kinda get frustrated with all the "process" on these sites too, but Qix, just let it go, man.

Qix

@GlenH7 You can assume all you want.

user41796

Don't need to assume when you're kind enough to confirm.

Qix

6:17 PM

@AaronHall SO has been a central part of my life for 5 years now.

I care about its community.

I seem to be a dying breed in doing so as well.

Hans Passant already left. Jeff Atwood jumped ship earlier than him.

All the greats are leaving and it seems as though nobody cares as to why

And the blatant meta-bullcrap that was exhibited today is a clear indicator something is wrong.

whatsisname

central part of your life and only 5k rep?

Qix

@whatsisname yes because rep is the only indicator of one's contribution to the network, great observation.

user15026

@ampt yeah, I kinda wished they had fleshed it out more in book 1, for sure. But I can see how it would happen. Also, I am really curious to see what you think of how they wrap everything up, and how your angel theory works out.

user41796

@whatsisname Don't forget his 520 edits and 2477votes cast on SO

user15026

@ampt I mean I know how your angel theory works out, but I am curious what you think of all that.

Qix

6:21 PM

Whatever, I'm done here. Have fun shit talking me when I leave.

Tired of this shit.

whatsisname

it might be for the best to find a new hobby

there's more to life than programming

Aaron Hall

Qix, maybe you could table the matter, put it on the backburner, and focus on other stuff that's more productive.

user41796

Irony is that I deleted two of his comments so they couldn't be flagged as rude in order to allow him to say his side of the story

amon

@whatsisname you mean like coding, developing, architecting, designing, or even shipping? Nah, that's just crazy

Ampt

@amon I just do the first and the last. everything else is optional

@AshleyNunn gah. Now I'll have to buy the next book on my way home

Jimmy Hoffa

6:25 PM

Based on SO's launch date... how old someone would have to be to have spent a quarter of their life on SE based on their join date

user41796

> Almost a quarter

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 you want me to put a random modifier in there or something? Bite me.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa What if he infects you?

user41796

Is that bite or byte?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt fair point - @GlenH7 bite @Ampt

enderland

6:27 PM

MEGABYTE

Ampt

@enderland ... it wasn't very effective

enderland

lol

user41796

@Ampt What if it was a TERAbyte?

Ampt

@GlenH7 A critical hit!

user41796

Punnery will get you everywhere

Ampt

6:30 PM

It's super effective!

Would UTF-8 be able to support the inclusion of a vast alien language? http://programmers.stackexchange.com/q/303438?atw=1 #unicode

Tweeted by StackProgrammer on November 24, 2015 at 4:21 PM

oh come ON

whatsisname

@JimmyHoffa: but you need to account how much time is actually spent in front of the screen

Elizabeth

I really don't want to get involved with this but seeing all this makes me uncomfortable. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here but there's no point on being rude. qix leaving a community that you said you've used for 5 years ... which you've most likely been helped and guided upon more than once ... in such a rude manner ... I just don't think that's right.

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname data.stackexchange.com/programmers/query/398039/…

Ampt

@Elizabeth it happens. People come and people go. One thing to remember is that the people in this chat room aren't a good representative sample of the main site, no matter how much that's inferred

whatsisname

lol

Ampt

6:37 PM

many people have tens of thousands of rep and never use chat at all

Some people get overly defensive of their question because they think it's "theirs"

no matter how much it belongs to the community once you post it.

user41796

I'll echo @Ampt's comments

Ampt

It's sad that people get turned off by that notion, but c'est la vie.

user41796

@Elizabeth It does happen, and it's a reflection of the broader world. There were a number of less-than-kind comments left by Qix on the main and meta posts that have since been removed as well.

Elizabeth

:P People really need to show more appreciation. I mean it's your choice to stay in a community ... if you chose to ... there must be something that made you support and be part of it. If you want to leave ... do so but respect others who wish to stay.

user41796

Agreed.

Elizabeth

6:44 PM

I guess it all comes down to personality. Everyone's different and we can't change them all.

user41796

Yes. I really wish I could find the C2 link that @MichaelT had mentioned some time ago. It was a great article that did a very good job in describing the different modalities people follow when leaving a community.

user55340

It's on meatball wiki

user55340

meatballwiki.org/wiki/GoodBye

user41796

That's the one, thanks!

user41796

You missed a textbook example of one of those.

user55340

6:47 PM

Meatball wiki was a fork of the community of c2 that wanted to focus on virtual communities.

Jimmy Hoffa

data.stackexchange.com/programmers/query/398046/… mic drop

Elizabeth

@Ampt No. I actually like these chatrooms. People are fairly nice to you if you aren't rude to them. Though I did encounter one sexist one in another chatroom but I blocked him. These chatroom allow more less strict questions ... so it's a bit more free than a post. Maybe if qix asked it here ... it might not have been so bad.

user41796

Mute can be a wonderful feature. :-)

user55340

If someone was being rude in that way here, you would likely be in a race to see if we would kick them out faster than you could block them.

user41796

His question was a decent one after you got rid of the fluff. The underlying issue is that he wasn't willing to let go of the fluff.

user55340

6:50 PM

And now we've got a silly Twitter post that misrepresents the site.

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: create meatballs in space, call them meatspaceballs -MichaelT

user55340

And network hot questions make a mess of the answers and comments.

user41796

Apropos of nothing, did Hans Passant stop participating in SO?

user55340

Everyone on the network was seeing a question about aliens and only the title before the click.

user55340

You must be very bored if you want to do this by hand. Just add the /showIncludes option. You'll now see why you cannot target .NET 3.0 with VS2013. And you'll see the reason why the compiler can't find the type, you didn't tell it to reference System.dll. — Hans Passant 4 mins ago

user55340

6:53 PM

No.

user41796

@MichaelT Yeah, I just pulled up his SO profile as well. Quite active.

user55340

Though I will point out he's an atwoodian too.

user41796

Meaning? (Haven't heard that term before)

enderland

he wants quality questions, not quantity

user55340

Invoking Atwood and Hans on such a question is... Odd.

user55340

6:54 PM

Had a discussion about that last night.

user41796

@enderland ty. I guess I'm an Atwoodian as well then

user41796

@MichaelT I thought it was a bit of a stretch with the comparison, but I let it go

user55340

yesterday, by MichaelT

The thing to consider is how P.SE has moved further in the Atwoodian direction.

user55340

Round there.

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: vandalize various dictionaries with the word atwoodian, not under 'A' -MichaelT

user41796

6:57 PM

@MichaelT I missed that bit since I was focused on answering Ampt's question

user55340

I'll add it to Wikipedia.

user41796

And then add a completely contrary definition to Urban Dictionary

user55340

The article has twenty-three citations, one of which is an obscure manuscript from the 1490's and the other twenty-two are arguments on LanguageLog.

user55340

Look up the talk page for that on Wikipedia.

user55340

@GlenH7 go back to the 3:46 message yesterday. Where @enderland comments on mso. That's where it started

Jimmy Hoffa

7:06 PM

> Todo: reformat timeline so all whiteboard messages occurred on a timestamp with a pattern -MichaelT

Elizabeth

@JimmyHoffa You're MichealT's personal Todo list. :D

user55340

Done.

user55340

Todo:

user55340

L. R. Ingersoll Physics Museum

The L.R. Ingersoll Physics Museum is located on the second floor of Chamberlin Hall on the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus. It is one of several museums on the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus that focus on hands-on exhibits and public outreach. The museum runs on donations and charges no admission. == History == The museum was established in 1918 by Professor Snow and the museum's namesake, Leonard Rose Ingersoll (1880-1958), who taught at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. L.R. Ingersoll began advocating for the museum in 1917 and it became the first museum in the United States...

whatsisname

7:36 PM

im back after a power failure

seems everyone used the hour to do some cleanup in their offices

gnat

@ThomasOwens this answer appears to be totally about alien languages. It mentions Unicode only to get into the long list of how aliens can communicate in the ways impossible to encode. That's what you get when you let questions to be abducted by aliens. "This site is not about f#cking roses"

whatsisname

and it looks like I'll be able to snag a third monitor

I took the bait on that answer to the alien question

Ixrec

8:14 PM

@gnat "Even worse is something like the language of bees." rofl

user41796

@MichaelT - check out the editor in this revision history

user41796

8:27 PM

@AshleyNunn - how did the hedgehog cookies turn out?

user15026

@GlenH7 Super delicious :D

Duga

8:52 PM

recommended reading: Open letter to students with homework problems "...If your question on Programmers.SE is just a copy paste of homework problem, expect it to be downvoted, closed, and deleted - potentially in quite short order." — 8bittree 17 secs ago

user41796

@AshleyNunn bueno! I forwarded along the recipe to a friend, and I'm hopeful I'll get a referral bonus!

Jimmy Hoffa

> Todo: Complete todo list -MichaelT

user15026

@GlenH7 Let me know how it goes :)

user41796

will do.

user55340

@GlenH7 yep. I've noticed that. ( link)

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