@BESW Two days later and it finally dawns on me how I could possibly have composed that complaint on meta to not put the mods immediately on the defensive and compel them to dismiss everything.

Heh.

(But at this point I did also make a total mess of approaching it and I don't know how to undo that, really.)

and not necessarily

it does leave a wide option of how you take people out of a fight, but you don't automatically not kill people

So a nonlethal brawl.

Batman: Arkham Series comes to mind.

Yes, you knock the enemies out, but Batman's No Killing rule is in effect.

Though admittedly it's not an RPG.

@trogdor Wild Pixie fainted

You are such a good trainer that you simply made that Ratata faint... and then leave him there in the grass, ready to be eaten by the nearest Ekans

@SPArchaeologist true enough, pokemon

but pokemon doesn't make a big story deal out of it

they just don't want to say that you killed something because the game is aimed at kids

Is Pokemon an RPG though?

plus, in pokemon you still beat them up before they "faint"

@eimyr depends on your definition

some people would define it that way

@eimyr not less that most of the JRPG games. Rpg in games is a much different concept that boardgame RPG

Yeah, some people would say CoD Multiplayer is an RPG because it has skills and levels. I don't see it that way. I think that either interactive dialogue or ability to change the story to your liking is the core of the game.

Even Disgaea is sometime defined "Strategic RPG"

Please excuse me my lack of knowledge, but I'm allergic to JRPGs.

I start sweating, swelling and go red when I try to play JRPGs. Oh wait, that's arousal, not allergy...

If you are going for that definition, then only games like Baldur Gate or some of the old Ultima could match.

Either way, I avoid it.

I'm not even sure TeS fits in

Not necessarily! Modern RPGs like Witcher, Mass Effect would hold. Even though the dialogue changes only a little and you have a "prescribed" character, you can still influence the story.

← 25 messages moved from RPG General Chat

Yep, I wasn't going to be that rigid, what I meant is that, historically, the RPG console videogame genre was born in JRPG games, since those are the oldest (or mainly are). For many years, in a market where you couldn't really do story that would allow for branching, an Rpg was often just:

- a game with a story focus

-often in a fantasy setting

-where you had a party of characters

Yeah. Extra Credits explain the difference between WRPGs and JRPGs very well.

I think their conclusion was that JRPG focus on the complex story and interesting NPCs with a large degree of characterisation (and relationships between them) while WRPGs focus more on the player's character, his/her choices, influence etc.

Most of the WRPG are more recent, and actually have a totally different approach. They try to put you in a "you are there, your choices matter" open world approach.

@eimyr That was what I was to say.

But I find that the JRPGs influenced recent WRPGs... well, what you just said.

@eimyr the opposite is also true. See FF15

OMG SO IN SYNC!

No, thanks, I'll skip FF. I don't want a rash on my... joystick.

the demo showed an open world, that for the first time gave the felling of playing Skyrim with FF story and gameplay.

also, combat now is action oriented "Tales Of" style

another thing that seem to steer towards WRPG

if you want, give a look at a let's play

you will surely notice such changes

OH GOD. One thing I hate with a passion are Let's Plays...

sorry about being so judgemental and dismissive.

But damn, I'd actually prefer playing FF15 to watching someone do it, even if the player manages not to scream.

Don't worry. It's not that I really like watching someone playing... unless I am trying to see if the game is good before buying it.

Mods showcases are much more interesting

I only watch let's plays if I NEED to see how someone accomplishes a certain goal that I failed miserably to achieve - usually combat-related.

E.g. I would happily read walkthroughs, but sometimes I need to see how to kill that darn boss I've been at for an hour...

@eimyr well.... Do you happen to know "Shadow of Mordor"?

I do, never played it. It's on my "hack and slash when I'm bored" list - but I need to upgrade my PC before I try it.

A let's play was very usefull for deciding "should I buy this on ps3 or wait until I upgrade to ps4?"

5 minutes of frame rate dropping to 12-14 and sound/music noises and cut off were enough to decide

the frosting on the cake was the player noticing that the Nemesis system, the main point in the game, was butchered down on ps3

cool

So, um...

can you not-kill-people in a cRPG?

c stands for console Rpg?

computer

I wouldn't differentiate between console or PC ones, there's enough of that elsewhere.

uh yeah

Undertale is an example

it is the game I was talking about before with Ironheart

@eimyr Actually the main difference is that console folks are more into jrpg while the pc ones are into wrpg, but yes, no reason to differentiate.

Anyway, should be possible to do a Pacifist run in Nethack, but it is not like you talk the enemies in not-fighting. You are mostly avoiding them.

You can complete Planescape Torment without a single fight if you wish. But that's not to say it is not a game designed for conflict.

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PacifistRun

Ultima 4 was a prominent one, since sparing enemies yielded something - Compassion points

But yes, seem not many actually had that artistic direction Undertale seem to have.

I may even try it...

I find it an interesting game

and I definitely like a game that lets you kill your enemies but deliberately encourages you to do otherwise

I love how in Call of Duty, World at War the AI was so bugged, that by exploiting glitches you could have just ignored the enemies and run past them.

Well, I saw some of the tropes it should involve - in particular one that I won't name and that immediately got my eye. I like games that most people would consider strange.

See El Shadday or Continue?9876543210

@SPArchaeologist So, are you a fan of games by Shiny?

@eimyr I loved the Earthworm Jim saga (well, the ending of the 3d game was a little meh, I mean, did they really have to call in a bad stereotype for "Female Jim" as the final boss??)

Have you played Messiah or Sacrifice?

had to visit Wikipedia to remember it but yes, I played Messiah

I was a great fan of Sacrifice when it was still relevant.

It never saw commercial success, but it was very fresh, unique and had a very distinctive look and feel

I played many games that weren't exactly "commercial success"

Most are really famous in a very small market or very unknown even to fans.

I think I may be one of the few (outside japan) knowing that a Wonder Project J 2 game existed.

@SPArchaeologist did you also like them before they were famous? :P

Yes. Actually, I don't know how far of a white flea I may be, I do know that most times the games I reference aren't exactly know.

but that may be just some games begin popular only to small genre fans groups.

See for example games like "The World Ends With You"

NEver heard of it.

But then again, I'm not into indie games very much.

I know that there are some masterpiece indies out there. The problem is that unless a game receives an insane amount of spotlight, awards and attention (Papers, please) I find it difficult to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones. I have a feeling this would require an undue amount of research.

And yes, I do confuse indies with non-mainstream small developer titles.

@eimyr It is not even indie! It was a pretty acclaimed game on the Nintendo DS

Then it goes into "confusion" basket.

no one knows that, and it was pretty unique. Two screen fighting system, with some sort of rhythm game felling having to control two characters at once in two parallel battles.

Actually, the music was pretty a theme in the game...

It is still pretty know among jrpg fans.

The main character also managed to be in Kingdom Hearts.

Should I buy a console to be able to participate in this discussion?

Not really, but I also have some confusion about what the discussion actually was :P

All started from noticing that Undertale is pretty unique as a computer game rpg in his way of discouraging kills

yeah

And I have an avatar similar to Flowey.

@SPArchaeologist is it snobby and inappropriate to dismiss a game based solely on fact that it has intentionally pixelated graphics?

No, or at least not in my personal view. To me, it is the story that matters (or the gameplay for no-story games like Mario)

It isn't the number of polygons, it is the arty style.

To me, graphical wise, Ni no Kuni is far superior to many "realistic-I-can-see-your-nose-hairs" games

also, pixels can work really well for some games.

I find it very hard to enjoy a deliberately pixelated game. I have nothing against huge pixels in Torment, but pixels the same size in Braid drive me up the wall.

I'm Scared! it is an indie games, and one who needs that style

why?

It is a sort of horror games that plays on the "The fourth wall is not going to save you" genre. It is meant to look as a silly horror game someone made and then developed some ways to haunt you in the real world.

the fact that spoiler adds to that.

I see.

I am thinking that it could have been done without pixels, but I understand why the decision was made.

Not really. Not only it was an indie game, the plot required it to look as a bad indie game

think of movies like The Ring and similar one.

Haunted videotape/game/record/object

hm

Alright then. Though admittedly when I looked at the screenshots it was more attractive to me than, say, Braid

Braid has less reasons for it to look retro others than "to look retro".

While this can be a requirement for some games (see Mario Maker, game specific mechanics are available only in that game graphics style. For example, Bowser behaves differently for each one of the games styles) for others is just a way to appeal retro games fans

It worked pretty well for games like Minecraft.

If Minecraf was realistic and not a bunch of blocks, probably it wouldn't have had the numbers it has

(Pedantic syntax note: use "less" for singular nouns and "fewer" for plural nouns.)

Thanks to block everyone can build something like he was playing lego.

I agree. Though in 3D I find pixels less aggravating.

I'm pretty sure that if Minecraft was 2D I would find it repulsive on the grounds of the graphics.

@eimyr Terraria?

I guess.

Terraria had the same reasons Minecraft has to go for a pixel style. You can still build there, and the pixel art make it easier to manage that.

And for some reason I played Minecraft but I've never been interested in Terraria.

What I meant is that sometime the art style actually is a part of the game. As much as Okami needed that sumie painting style, there are games that need to be presented with a pixel like retro graphics

I agree. These are conscious decisions, sometimes due to artistic style, sometimes due to ease of art creation or performance, sometimes because of experience pixelart is chosen.

I'm just saying that this decision takes a few points off my game rating. And I wonder if I'm being an elitist douche or not.

I also agree that sometimes, maybe even a whole too much times, the pixel style is there just because "retro is cool".

It's okay to just not like something.

@eimyr I only think you may need to actually just ask you if they needed that style for a reason. Not liking something is just fine, we are all supposed to be different after all. It is just for you that you should ask yourself if you do care of what you could miss that way.

@eimyr no comment

Cool.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll obsess over overthinking stuff.

But anyway, I have Papers, please on my bucket list of games.

@eimyr This sounds like a matter of preference, and that's fine. My own is that I much prefer polished 2D graphics to a lot of 3D graphics, especially less polished ones. It doesn't mean those other games are bad or that I won't play and enjoy them. It just means I have a certain aesthetic leaning and am naturally going to be drawn toward games that suit it.

It is, perhaps, elitist (or at least hasty) to conclude that a game is bad in other respects based on the type of art it uses, but it doesn't sound like you're doing that. It just sounds like you enjoy games more if they suit your aesthetic.

And speaking of indie games... [runs through Hatoful Boyfriend again]

hey @BESW

Hm?