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user20683
12:07 AM
@Caters it's a programming exercise, not wikipedia. Put enough detail that someone visiting will feel like they learned something but don't waste too much time on the content unless it's for a client.
 
user20683
Besides, there's nothing saying you can't update it later
 
user114359
12:41 AM
@RobertHarvey sure, but why 400 of those all of a sudden? It was not a late answer two days ago.
 
user15026
@Snowman They changed the late answer rep threshold from 10 to 50
 
1:03 AM
@Telastyn NM is SO. MUCH. FUN. :D
 
@enderland a few k xp short
 
1:21 AM
@Telastyn it feels like a sniper rifle compared to the NY - the range upgrades give it 17km and you can get a spotter plane to like 19
 
I have about an hour left to play if you're up for some
 
I'm off now
 
enjoy
 
I'm going to love playing it, all that practice I got in the Wyo and NY is really useful
Gotta love citadeling people at like 17km, stupid clevelands... ;)
 
1:37 AM
I think this might be better over on programmers.stackexchange, but it could be off-topic there too. — Ken Y-N 45 secs ago
 
user114359
@AshleyNunn thank you, that explains it.
 
user41796
1:49 AM
@WorldEngineer Yeah, I was really struggling on what to decide to do with that particular question. Interesting but also just ... je ne sais quoi.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 I tend to lean toward preserving relics but that's the humanities in me :P
 
user41796
It may be my delete vote on there. At least one of the answers was just garbage. But the reply from Borland was cool. And the top voted answer was fairly informative.
 
user41796
That one ought to age well. And locking it makes sense.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 generally I try to treat stuff that "celebrities" answer with a little more care
 
4:11 AM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it belongs on programmers.stackexchange.comAdelphia 13 secs ago
 
 
5 hours later…
9:33 AM
Have you done any code or are you strictly looking for advise? If so this might sit better in programmers.stackexchange.comGlitch100 40 secs ago
 
 
2 hours later…
11:26 AM
@durron597 Still no word from Google yet, how long did it take for you to get the results?
Oh, and funny enough, I was approached yesterday and was offered a promotion to Technical Architect
Bust my buttons... if I don't get into Google then my programming will decrease to a mere hobby where it was once my profession
> "Let me get this straight, you want me to sit in an ivory tower and do nothing and answer to no one, draw up UML diagrams that nobody will read or look at, and you want to give me more money?" - In My Head
 
@Adelphia Programmers has the same "primarily opinion-based" close reason, same as here. This question would be downvoted and closed at Programmers. Please read: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow, also the Programmers on-topic pageSnowman 49 secs ago
 
12:28 PM
@maple_shaft I'd be happier writing less code at work. That means I won't be drained and I'd perhaps want to write more code at home, where I get to choose the technologies and platforms I use and not someone else.
I want to learn Android development, for example. But I just don't want to sit in front of an IDE at home after doing it at work. On weeks that I don't code much at work, I'm more likely to read about coding and do coding at home.
 
@ThomasOwens I suppose it could be a good thing. One thing that concerns me is that in my zeal to prepare for the Google interview, I have zero motivation to look at or deal with code now
what if I go there and get burnt out?
i have a lot to think about
I played with Android development a bit. It was such a well defined ecosystem that I felt that I struggled to even get a simple app running
it seemed to me that that there was a big learning curve, but once you crossed it you could crank out complex apps with crazy productivity
 
12:45 PM
@maple_shaft My friends at Google don't appear to be burnt out. But it could be a team-by-team thing. I've heard that at Microsoft, Apple, and Amazon. Different teams are radically different.
 
@ThomasOwens different offices especially
 
@maple_shaft aren't you basically burning out in your current job regardless?
 
@JimmyHoffa Probably. But I do know of two people who went to Apple and had radically different experiences at the same site.
At a large company with multiple sites, I think it's safe to say that every unique site will be different.
 
@enderland I am burnt out because of stupid people running the show and me desperately trying to keep the plane from crashing with only one wing and two working engines
 
@maple_shaft so it sounds like Google might be better since it'd be likely to burn you out in a better way, if it does? :)
 
1:00 PM
@maple_shaft and for some goddamn reason, somebody put one of those engines in the cockpit!
Happy Coffee Day
 
At least in my new role I am afforded an ivory tower so i can watch the zombie apocalypse from safety above, with 20 years of stockpiled canned goods to help me last
 
@enderland plus there's the whole "You can work anywhere you want" afterwards
 
@JimmyHoffa I am enjoying a fine French roast before my onslaught of confused meetings
 
^-- I tried to figure out what a French Roast was, but this is all that came to mind
 
@JimmyHoffa ha! icuwutudidthere.jpg
 
1:05 PM
@JimmyHoffa yeah, probably a lot easier to get remote jobs too if you have Google on your resume
since if I remember right @maple_shaft can't relocate
 
1:18 PM
@enderland thats right
 
The Hunt for Red October has left Netflix. :(
 
Stack Exchange will be sorry for passing me up for an interview
:)
 
I suspect this would be better suited to Programmers - it's pretty high-level, and by no means unique to Python and/or ZMQ. — jonrsharpe 54 secs ago
 
user55340
@maple_shaft I wish I could draw the picture we had on a whiteboard about the direction of a project. It involved a plane crashing into a mountain and the project managers ordering the dev team to dig a tunnel through the mountain so the plane would fly through it.
 
1:35 PM
I'm looking at you, @enderland. LET OUR ANSWERS RUMBLE.
 
@ThomasOwens lol I just noticed that your answer is a copy similar to mine :P
 
I didn't refresh to see your answer.
 
:)
Maybe it'll hit HNQ
 
I still don't know what PCI has to do with anything, though.
But then again, I'm not a PCI expert.
 
I suspect this is a "we're doing a project relating to PCI and want to version it like we are, but heard about semantic versioning and think we should do it HALP ME" question rather than anything to do with PCI
sad, this still isn't migrated - stackoverflow.com/q/32871379/1048539
 
1:43 PM
@enderland Have the flags been handled?
 
@ThomasOwens oh, still pneding
 
I just threw my flag on it, too.
 
Email and database connectors are switched in factory implementation. Also i think this quetion would be best answered in programmers.stackexchange.comArthur Rizzo 19 secs ago
 
I should have clarified on my PCI comment. The issue is that audits and their cost influence when the major and minor components change, not necessarily a true new feature. For example, if a feature related to payments is introduced, we bump the minor number for PCI. But if we add a brand new feature related to something in the gui, it doesn't. Only the patch changes. So in this case we don't really get a say in the matter as developers since someone else makes those decisions. — void.pointer 1 min ago
what am I missing about this?
 
^^^ WTF
 
2:07 PM
@durron597 borrowed from C# for example Dictionary<TKey, TValue>.TryGetValue(TKey, out TValue)
oh you mean the return value
 
@ratchetfreak Look at the red rectangles
yeah
 
seems like someone came along and changed the return success; into return success?o:null;
 
@ratchetfreak the thing is, some of the try methods do return a boolean, and others don't.
Honestly these classes are dynamically generated via reflection, so I almost wonder if they're polluting the heap and it really does return a boolean.
 
user55340
@enderland there might be a pci requirement or interpretation of one "you need to audit for all major and minor library changes" and trying to use semver def of major and minor to be the same as pci def and reduce audits by saying "this is a patch"
 
user55340
Create a new version number beyond the bottom dot, and say "everything is a patch or internal - nothing is major or minor - we don't need audits"
 
user114359
2:20 PM
@MichaelT I'm not sure what the whole conversation is here, but I have never been a part of a PCI audit. I have done certifications due to changes in the messaging between systems though.
 
user114359
And I have several years experience in retail and payment systems
 
user55340
It's avoiding internal audits.
 
user55340
Not pci audits.
 
user55340
@enderland Yes basically. MAJOR(PCI).MINOR(PCI).FEATURE.HOTFIX+BUILD. We're basically only allowed to change the 3rd and 4th component without getting PCI (and subsequently the PCI overlords at the company) involved. To me it feels like this is a bit contrived, I am not sure they are justified in the way they manage the version number, but I do not know enough about PCI and audit process to say otherwise. — void.pointer 6 mins ago
 
user114359
Ah, yeah, a company can audit whatever they want to CYA
 
user55340
2:23 PM
This question really is "how do I number so that my internal auditors won't raise an eyebrow until it's too late"
 
user114359
@MichaelT Version numbers... how do I explain ${something} to ${someone}... good luck
 
user114359
Assuming I have done my own testing, I try to be as discreet as possible
 
user55340
How do I explain $something.1 to $someone.2.1
 
user55340
Honestly the title of the question is an xy problem.
 
user55340
To make it a better question, that is properly answerable- rip out all the pci stuff.
 
user55340
2:26 PM
Neither answer addresses the pci in house mess.
 
> But realistically, it sounds like you are bypassing normal conventions just to avoid process overhead. That... strikes me as concerning.
yeah, that's what I just put in my answer edit lol
@MichaelT they are basically moving their version numbers back one and arbitrarily adding one, so that they move their audit point one back
 
user55340
Yep.
 
2:44 PM
@MichaelT Btw the only way I was able to fix my error from the other day, so far, seems to be changing my build process to use a bigjar instead of linking via manifest Class-Path:
I still have no idea what the problem is.
 
3:06 PM
0
Q: How to represent very specific business logic in classes containing the business logic?

Jeff JafferyBusinessModel: I have a ice cream shop and I designed classes to do my supplier based financials based on industry types(Lines of business). I sell ice creams of many types, which I buy from different suppliers, and at the end of the month I try to reconcile my account by line of business using c...

VICTORY!!
 
user41796
Whee! Free flag bait.
 
@GlenH7 lol @ThomasOwens I just flagged it as needing comment cleanup when I saw them disappear :P
 
user41796
Quick, go flag the Progs version before Thomas nukes them
 
@GlenH7 no that's what I mean, I flagged it and watched them immediately go away
 
@enderland There's no queue, but i'm certain that enough flags makes stuff go away without mod intervention
 
user41796
3:12 PM
@enderland Oh, perfect timing then
 
@durron597 I flagged the question though
 
sometimes when I'm going on a too chatty spree on SO that's happened.
 
user41796
@durron597 it's either 5 or 6 flags, I think
 
oh, lol. then perfect timing
 
@GlenH7 some keywords are one word deletes too
 
3:14 PM
@GlenH7 I have my first phone call talking about compensation with them at lunch today
any advice?
 
user41796
Make sure you know cost of living comparisons
 
user41796
Also make sure you know developer salaries for that locale
 
user41796
And have a list of things that aren't direct compensation but are valuable to you
 
@durron597 the word "interesting" is a great response that is a filler to make them offer you more money without even trying
 
user41796
i.e. it may be easier for them to give you an extra week of vacation as opposed to giving you $5k more
 
user41796
3:16 PM
And if you can make it sound natural, there's no harm in asking "is there anything left on the table that I ought to be asking for?"
 
user41796
Some companies are really good about leading with their best package. Others expect a round of negotiation. You can bypass things with the latter group by simply asking "what else should I be asking for from you?"
 
user41796
At this point, they want to get you to say "yes" to their offer. They've invested time & money getting to this point. So now they want to see the commitment complete.
 
it's not you vs them, either; it's you and them, trying to figure something that works for both of you (which sounds cheesy but it's a different frame of reference than adversarial negotiation)
 
user41796
^^^ This
 
Hm, glassdoor has "senior developer" at only 5k higher for seattle than for houston
 
user41796
 
You previously gave them a number already right @durron597 ?
 
@durron597 That makes sense. What do Microsoft, Amazon, and other companies in Seattle call that role?
 
user41796
@durron597 check a few sites in order to build a more accurate model. And definitely consider CoL sites for additional comparators
 
@enderland No I didn't
 
Does Microsoft even have a concept of "senior" anything? I thought it was just numbers, like I, II, III and so on.
 
3:21 PM
Ahhh, just a number in your head, I remember a convo about that and thought you put that on the application
 
@enderland Oh, you know what, you might be right actually.
I forgot about that.
 
Who knows if that number will ever get to the person making the offer, though :P
 
I actually put higher than I've been thinking recently on that form, lol
cnn money says seattle should be 28% more
 
user55340
Cost of living vs labor market.
 
user41796
So once you have those numbers, you can more easily make an argument for a higher salary. And it's okay to ask for a flat 5% or 10% increase over what you're currently making.
 
user55340
3:28 PM
May cost more, but with a larger labor market or higher desirability of living will drive the price down.
 
@MichaelT You think Seattle has a larger labor market than Houston?
2014 estimate of houston metro area is 6.5 million, seattle is 3.6 million
 
user41796
The difference being "I believe I deserve ###" is an unsubstantiated claim. Whereas "I make #, and CoL difference is Y%, and labor market difference is Z%, and I'd like a flat increase of X% to help justify the move." is a substantiated claim
 
user55340
For tech workers? Yes.
 
user41796
Key being to always back your numbers
 
user41796
@MichaelT Houston has a lot of "silent tech" locked up in the energy sector that you don't hear about as much
 
3:30 PM
how do i look up the tech labor size?
 
user41796
Oil & Gas are major industries there
 
@durron597 use an RNG
 
senior software developer was a much lower number on glassdoor than senior software development engineer, fwiw
 
user41796
Bureau of Labor Mgmt ought to have numbers
 
user41796
@durron597 It's the engineer bit in the title
 
user41796
3:31 PM
engineer implies different level of responsibilities
 
user55340
@GlenH7 true. But 100 sysadmins are not 1000 developers.
 
user41796
@MichaelT There's a lot of proprietary software development
 
user41796
Buddy of mine when I was a consultant ditched the full time travel bit so he could develop full time down there.
 
user55340
Start taking the entire campuses of Microsoft, Amazon, the Google data centers, the hydro power for Columbia river and wind power if you want energy markets.
 
user55340
Intel is also from that area.
 
3:33 PM
You are talking about labor demand
That doesn't mean a darn thing about labor supply
It explains why Amazon is aggressively recruiting nationwide, it doesn't say anything about who's already there
 
user41796
Right - his point is that the NW has a high demand and lower supply. Houston has a high demand but likely also a high supply
 
user55340
There is enough supply to keep the demand there rather than other locales.
 
@durron597 there is also a difference between "great candidate supply" and "warm body supply"
 
I can't find information broken down by industry AND local
I can find industry, nationwide, and local employment rates, but not both together
 
user55340
You are competing with all the hipsters who will work for pbr just to be in hipsterville Seattle.
 
3:40 PM
@MichaelT I think of Amazon as a company that will pay more to get less crappy coders.
(of course, some bits of the AWS api is pretty awful)
 
user55340
There are people who would take a 5k pay cut just to work in Seattle and be part of the culture there. It is a nice place.
 
user114359
 
user55340
so go for an afternoon drive to the volcano mountains.
 
4:00 PM
This belongs on Stack Overflow.
 
@RobertHarvey boom
@RobertHarvey wait, what is going on?
> locked by Community♦ 19 secs ago
not migrated - just locked
 
It's migrated now.
Egads, migration takes a long time.
 
oh THAT was weird
 
user41796
Yeah, community is slacking on the job there
 
user114359
@enderland it is migrated, you probably caught it before it fully moved over.
 
user41796
4:02 PM
I caught it that way too
 
user41796
unusual
 
Locking happens first. Then a miracle occurs.
Miracles take time.
 
@Snowman I did, never seen that before
 
The redirect must be the very last thing that is added.
 
user114359
@enderland I have. Rare, but it is possible. Stupid race conditions, not even Stack Exchange is immune to concurrency issues.
 
user114359
4:05 PM
@durron597 you're from Texas, right?
 
user55340
@Snowman I blame caching.
 
user114359
Caching, everyone's favorite scapegoat
 
@Snowman I live in Texas, but I'm from New York
Hey btw, I got my junior guy here to post on Stack Exchange, but I think the answers he got are all crap. Any thoughts?
4
Q: Intuitive All On/Off GUI?

qwertyCurrently, I have a program that has many different modules (Audi A1, Audi R8, etc.) with 4 different states (RESET, Monitor, Closing, and On). I created a GUI for the user to change the states of each particular module. In addition to the slider, each module GUI also displays data (6 changing nu...

 
user114359
@durron597 I smoked some brisket overnight and I was just thinking how the best brisket I've had was from Texas. If I were you I'd stay there for the food!
 
@durron597 hmmm maybe I'll write up an answer
 
4:16 PM
@enderland maybe I'll make a ux.se account to upvote you :)
 
@durron597 I don't feel like it's clear enough to really answer
 
@enderland feels a bit XY to me
 
@ratchetfreak he's asking, "I have specific criteria that my suggested solution doesn't fit" but doesn't clarify the specific criteria
 
The problem is I know the domain really well so it's hard to see what he's not including
 
"However, there isn't any feedback in the all-state-change slider if any of the modules fail to change states." Why would this fail? Can you clarify? — Paul Dessert 2 days ago
@PaulDessert In most cases modules will not fail to change states. However, as an edge case I would not want the user to think he/she turned all the modules on when in reality one module may have threw an exception. — qwerty 2 days ago
that seems like there is a reason why this is not possible, but I don't understand it from his question
I see no reason now to make the "master" slider trigger all sliders to move to "ON" and then if they don't, have them stop at whatever stage they are stopped at and turn red
 
4:24 PM
That's not a UI change, that's a design change
the UI directly reflects the state of the server, the server doesn't have a concept of "failed to change" state
 
that's the part which is missing from the questino
 
if you did it client side, you'd have to have some way to clear the error
 
it's not clear from the question why he can't do that
the way you get good UX design is documenting the user requirements first, and designing a solution based on them - this reads like "I want this solution, how do I fit user requirements to it?"
 
@enderland Yeah, we've basically done that
 
enderland should post on UX.SE more
Thats actually not a bad idea for me, if I want to keep doing UX related things
 
4:40 PM
@enderland I want to do fewer UX related things lol
well, maybe not
 
4:55 PM
"As a .NET developer, your role is to develop high quality, defect free code per the requirements provided to build world class software. "
ROFL
 
user55340
The regex question now on meta is not done any favors by its inflammatory language in the question body.
 
user55340
It verges on a rant against short regexen.
 
@MichaelT He edited it.
 
user55340
Current version still problematic.
 
user55340
> to agree that readability of code is far more important than short-syntaxed one-liners which work, but require a senior developer to interpret with any degree of accuracy - but that seems to be exactly the way regular expressions where designed. Was there a reason for this?
 
user55340
5:02 PM
> What advantage does the garbled syntax of a regular expression offer other than the shortest possible operation and logic syntax? What harm would meaningful operator / function naming have done to regular expressions?
 
@GlenH7 Oh you're such a troublemaker.
 
@durron597 Oh you're such a tease.
 
5:18 PM
@enderland que?
 
@durron597 curious what you meant by the "troublemaker" thing ;)
 
@enderland Oh, I didn't clarify because I didn't change the subject
 
ahh
 
user41796
For the record, I voted "primarily opinion based"
 
user41796
And IIRC that user has a storied history across SE. Threats of leaving the site are empty threats IMO.
 
user41796
5:29 PM
also note that the person asked their meta question before the question was closed
 
user114359
@GlenH7 at his rep level he can see the close votes coming in, and there was an auto-comment about "possible duplicate of..."
 
user41796
@MichaelT - does the user jTodd ring a bell?
 
user41796
Isn't he the one who insisted on asking overly broad questions and got offended when told those weren't a good fit for the site?
 
user41796
5:57 PM
Looks like I was right about jT0dd. But that user appears to be different than today's Jonathan Todd
 
user55340
@GlenH7 yep. It does.
 
user41796
Given the significant overlap of sites between the two profiles, I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't dual accounts for the same person.
 
argh, reqs doc to be written now. And test cases for each req. Blech.
 
user41796
Need. More. Coffee.
 
@GlenH7 yes. Crick in my back from sleeping funny, so I'm igoring my way around... perchance it's time to stagger across the street for my second cuppa..
hate when that happens, sleep funny and the next day I can't straighten my neck and am hunched over all day until I sleep it out again.
 
user114359
6:11 PM
@JimmyHoffa take some ibuprofen and wash it down with coffee, works for me when that happens.
 
user41796
Key part there being moar coffee
 
@Snowman already did; no go this time :/ Whatever. Igor needs his coffee, yess master.
 
6:31 PM
@durron597 how'd your lunchtime chat go?
 
6:41 PM
@durron597 why not put the slider above all the others with "All modules" and it can have next to it, it's specific statistics just like each other module has stuff next to it's modules. Then you can in real time see the toggles below that one moving to it. I'd pop a modal on failures that says each time a failure happens "Module Y errored to bla and bla die stabby bla" and perhaps move the "All" modules slider to a "failed" state or just blip it in red so it's clear it didn't complete.
 
@enderland good.
 
the all modules stats next to it could just be a listing of current stats/states
 
I didn't really try to negotiate for more because it was... pretty high already
it wasn't OMG high but it was substantial.
 
@durron597 find a new oportunity?
 
@JimmyHoffa op?
 
user41796
6:43 PM
@durron597 They may have done your homework for you
 
bleh keyboard fail today
 
@GlenH7 I mentioned that I figured out that my rent living close to the office would be about 35k-40k more per year and she was basically "I know, but there are places slightly less close that are much cheaper"
 
user41796
You're not the first to have done their homework before talking to them
 
@durron597 oh, is the Amazon thing moving forward?
 
@JimmyHoffa yeah
 
user41796
6:45 PM
It's a role / company I'd consider except for the fact I can't move for a while.
 
@durron597 awesome! Interview went well?
 
yesterday I got "we are going to make you and offer" and today was "here is what the offer is"
23 hours ago, by durron597
My worst interview of the day was so bad and I actually went back to my hotel and spent an hour writing up a decent answer to the question
They really liked that I did that, apparently ;)
 
ah yeah, I've done that
 
user41796
I would imagine so, yes. Very few candidates do that, and it can be a big differentiator
 
man I've had to do almost a dozen job interviews in the past 2 weeks and still have three more to do, except I'm on the hiring side of the table, and I am hiring for skills I don't really have
so it's been a stressful time
 
user41796
6:47 PM
@whatsisname That can be exceptionally difficult
 
@whatsisname yeesh. At least you're getting that many resumes. For whatever reason my current employer is sticking with a recruiter who is only giving us a tiny bit of resumes and they're all terrible.
 
My biggest concern about the offer is that it's extremely golden handcuffy
 
What's the skillset for? That would blow.
 
this job is for a non-profit I am a board member for, and we are hiring a new Executive Director
 
restricted stock offer is good, but only 5% vests in year one
 
6:48 PM
oh, that's a good bit different
 
fortunately I haven't had to do the interviews solo
 
user41796
@durron597 That's a good problem to have. Also means they're trying to hire for the long term
 
user41796
But very slow vesting rates mean they have had retention issues
 
signing bonus is substantial and is separate from relocation compensation but after that first paycheck i don't see much until like year 3
I think restricted stock vesting is like 5/15/40/40
 
@durron597 this is one of those things Amazon was cited for in all the people's job complaints about them - they use it as a carrot to hook people in so they can force them to do a ton of work
 
user55340
6:50 PM
That you are getting a non trivial set of options in a large company is a good thing.
 
they said most people don't last until it vests with any meaningfulness
 
@MichaelT it's not options, it's actual shares.
 
user55340
All the more applicable then.
 
@durron597 you'll have to pay back the signing and relo if you leave within N period also - get clarification on what that period is from them.
 
@JimmyHoffa yeah there are a lot of details that she didn't say on the phone.
 
user55340
6:51 PM
Back from boom days, I got 1k options. 10 years later, new hires were lucky to get 100.
 
@MichaelT options are basically just cash anyways, no one actually uses the options to get shares, they just cash the difference
 
@durron597 lots of details aren't a huge deal - but that is one I would definitely negotiate on if at all possible. It's more like razor-cuffs when leaving the job would mean you have to pay them thousands of dollars
 
@JimmyHoffa Yeah I definitely will look at that
@maple_shaft It took two calendar weeks for me to hear back from Google. Amazon was 3 business days, 5 real days
 
Be wary of the non-compete too, that's one I'm sure they won't budge on but be aware of it. There's been a lot of fracas in the valley about the non-competes between all the big companies meaning you'll have some serious problems moving on- gotta remember Amazon and many of those huge tech companies can claim to be in nearly every sector of the tech industry
 
@maple_shaft 20 years of stockpiled canned goods? You think you won't go down with the ship?
 
user55340
6:57 PM
Not enforceable in many states.
 
@MichaelT This
 
@MichaelT yes, but many is not all. Something worth pondering over.
 
I'm trying to think about how best to tell my boss.
 
user55340
"Bob, it's Friday... We need to talk"
 
@durron597 About leaving?
Just go Office Space on him.
 
user55340
6:59 PM
(Me to my boss^^)
 
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