The Rec Center - 2015-09-13

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Hardware Recommendations Meta

3:28 AM

0

Q: Are answers recommending unreleased, unannounced hardware allowed?

Prompted by this answer to What's a good life-proof Android phone?: The upcoming Moto X Force is the phone that sound like the perfect fit(its not revealed or released yet!) Watch out! These are just leaks and rumors so nothing final yet! [...rumored specs...] So if you can wai...

discussion answer-quality answers

3 hours later…

Hardware Recommendations Meta

6:15 AM

0

Q: Questions/answers with legal issues

What do we want to do about questions where answers might fall afoul of legal or regulatory issues? For example, this question asks for a 3-watt Wifi adapter. In most countries, a 3W EIRP radio is far more powerful than you can use without a license. Wifi is probably the area where this is goi...

discussion legal

5 hours later…

Hardware Recommendations Meta

10:48 AM

-1

Q: Should answers that given future products as a recommendation be allowed?

It would help answering if there was a guideline as to whether an unreleased/unrevealed piece of hardware should be allowed as a recommendation in general or when a question is asked e.g I need a product that does this within X months. These future products don't have an exact specification, an...

11:48 AM

Well it's quiet around here. At least I can talk to @HardwareRecommendationsMeta.

Hardware Recommendations Meta

12:43 PM

0

Q: Site name Computer Vs Building materials

I may be completely missing something on my mobile view but should there be a mention of PC in the site title? Or could have new people asking about hammers and nails. Again apologies if I'm missing it on my phone.

Hardware Recommendations Meta

1:36 PM

0

Q: Are questions related to hosting requirements on topic?

I've thrown up a question related to a dedicated server that will be hosted (most likely) by a third party. The idea behind this question is to upgrade from a VPS to another piece of hardware. Is a question asking for such hardware on topic? I am asking because this hardware will likely never be...

discussion scope

2 hours later…

3:28 PM

@ArtOfCode I don't have any clue what you're talking about with "legal authority", that doesn't make any sense to me

@JohnB The SE TOS are a legal agreement between Stack Exchange, Inc, and each of its users individually. When enforcing such a legal document, you must have authority to act on behalf of the aggrieved party - and since we're not party to the agreement between Stack Exchange, Inc, and the user in question, we don't have that authority.

So every time you come across spam on a site you elevate that to a CM?

@JohnB No, because spam is also against the community rules (such as those in the help center) - which are the things that give users and mods their authority.

See this answer - if it's about TOS noncompliance, we elevate the issue to a CM.

underage users are a special case

that is based on law. It's not illegal to talk about doing illegal things

@JohnB I haven't even mentioned underage users. Check TL - Arthur Fischer has just linked a useful post on mod authority to enforce TOS.

3:36 PM

That question does not apply to all of the TOS, it's about a specific aspect

so I'm not sure of the relevance

@JohnB Ah, but the answers have been generalised. "Mods don't enforce the terms of service."

you're conveniently truncating that quote

> Moderators don't enforce the terms of service, we enforce the rules of the community and a few global rules from SE

illegal content is absolutely a global rule from SE

That only serves to strengthen my point.

@JohnB Is the content itself actually illegal, though?

@HDE226868 what content?

3:37 PM

It's a part of the TOS; it's not a "rule from SE" in the sense that they ask us to delete this. We report it.

@JohnB The content of a given post that discusses such an illegal product.

@HDE226868 we're talking in hypothetics here, not a specific example

@JohnB I know that; I was referring to a generalized case on any question on main.

I don't mean to be dismissive of your point but we're more talking about whether or not it's the community responsibility to remove it, not whether or not it's illegal. So for the sake of discussion, yes it's illegal

@JohnB Ah, thanks. I had mixed up some of the chat messages with meta comments.

3:41 PM

no problem

@HDE226868 Your opinion? Given some content that's either illegal or against the TOS, do you delete right off, or elevate to a CM?

@ArtOfCode regardless of whether or not it's the community or moderator's place to personally delete it, that point doesn't even matter. Ultimately, SE does not want that content on their site

if we flag it for CM intervention or have a moderator delete it doesn't matter. In the end, it's against the TOS.

@JohnB And if they don't want it, they're responsible for getting rid of it, or delegating that task. They have not explicitly delegated the task of deleting illegal content to mods or users, so we leave it to them.

and you expect them to browse the site and ready every post?

No - that's why we elevate issues to them. We can inform, but we don't act on these cases.

3:45 PM

I don't make the same distinction between informing and acting as you do

Informing is acting. If it's clearly "Illegal Use", then it's a violation of SE TOS and should be removed

@ArtOfCode Here's an interesting meta post. The consensus there seems to be that unless the answer encourages blatantly illegal activity, nothing more than a comment is necessary. I agree with pretty much all of that.

noted

@HDE226868 I think that's a silly meta post to be honest. I would say no, don't flag it as offensive, yes, absolutely flag it for moderator attention and state that it violates the TOS

@JohnB And when I receive that flag, all I'm going to do is pass the information on to someone in the team and let them deal with it.

@JohnB It depends on how blatant it is. For example, there are grey areas, where a device meeting certain specs may be illegal in jurisdiction A but not jurisdiction B.

There are some cases where I would absolutely flag it (or report it to a CM, if I were a mod).

Right, I'm not talking about grey areas here. I'm more thinking of a user saying "Hey how can I get an illegally overpowered reverse polarity ray manipulator?"

3:53 PM

@JohnB If they're asking for something that is illegal and they clearly intend to do harm, then I would say action is needed.

Especially if they know it's illegal.

@HDE226868 That's really what I'm focusing on here. As I said in the comments, I'm willing to let the grey area stuff slide and give the benefit of the doubt

what the hell is a reverse polarity ray manipulator?

6

If you've gotta ask...

(that should answer your question, BTW - generally-speaking, questions should be moderated first by those who have at least some inkling of what they mean)

@JohnB I'd prefer to take it on a case-by-case basis, in an ideal world, but I'd also like to play it safe.

3:57 PM

@Shog9 ultimately, the question is whether or not something that shows clear illegal intent should be deleted on sight by those who have the power, or if it should be elevated for a CM to handle

@JohnB do you or anyone else have a reasonable argument for keeping it around?

That said, if you ask how to get a reverse polarity ray manipulator on Worldbuilding, you'll get answers and upvotes.

There are tons of grey areas here. Should a question about... uh, making herb butter... be removed from Seasoned Advice because that particular recipe might be illegal in NYC, even though it isn't in the locale of the asker or moderator?

@Shog9 other than moderators may or may not actually have the ability to enforce the SE Content Policy, not particularly. So maybe that's a better question. Do we?

There's no real clear cut MSE post on this, only specific cases

What about Hackintosh questions when the outcome is unclear?

@JohnB because it always comes down to the nuances of specific cases.

4:00 PM

@JohnB Legally, no. The question is more whether the team are fine with that, or whether they want to deal with cases themselves.

When in doubt, do right by your community first and don't worry about legal stuff. It is extremely rare that we have to involve mods in that, and when a situation arises we'll be sure to let you know. The more common behavior is the reverse: folks shooting themselves in the foot over legal concerns when there's no problem.

(example: folks shutting down questions on SO that maybe possibly indicate the author or answerer is violating Apple's NDA. No legal issues apply to ANYONE MODERATING or operating the site in those cases; it's just folks freaking out over nothing)

Arqade disallows questions on piracy. SE didn't mandate that; they decided they didn't want to be that site and disallowed them.

Okay, that's good to know

Super User disallows Hackintosh questions. They're not required to; heck, I wish they did, since that's the only way short of hell freezing over I'd use OS X. But they decided it was too fuzzy for them to want to deal with and knocked 'em down.

Do what your community wants and needs. The rest will sort itself out.

Thanks for the clarification

OK, that's good. I'll go update my answer on that, then.

4:06 PM

@Shog9 Thanks.

4:30 PM

It's interesting how we don't have one tag that is much more popular than the others. I like the mix and variety.

Hi peeps! :D

@HDE226868 For once :) I'm used to Worldbuilding's early stages and Open Source. Science-based, and licensing.

@Zizouz212 Afternoon.

Aya...

Stupid pings...

4:46 PM

@ArtOfCode cleaned up mine, thanks for the insightful discussion on it

@JohnB Ta. No worries :)

So, what's happened while I've been gone?

More questions

Lots more questions

I can tell :)

Lots of suggested edits that only I can review, so I'm "improving" them all so they get insta-approved.

4:48 PM

@ArtOfCode Ah, I haven't added anything, or answered. Need to get on that. I'm surprised I've got 60 rep already though :)

Yeah you should really start. I've been answering all I can.

Hey, should we be self-answering? I'm nervous it may be seen as spam...

Self answers are explicitly encouraged.

See: help center.

@ArtOfCode Yeah, but on a recommendation site? The help center is all generic...

@Zizouz212 Might be seen as a little weird, but not spam.

4:50 PM

@Zizouz212 Yeah, I wrote a meta question because of that.

Hi there, by the way!

@HDE226868 Must not've seen it? Mind if I ask the outcome?

This is actually a pretty active private. I'd expected a lot of activity to die off by now...

Not really... It's only been a few days

@Zizouz212 Here:

6

Q: How can we detect (and deal with) spam?

The premise of Hardware Recommendations is that Person A is looking for one or more product(s) that will satisfy certain criteria or complete a certain task. Persons B, C, D, etc. may write answers giving the details of products that can help Person A. The problem is that there is a bit of a hol...

discussion spam

Though I am slightly worried that these new 3-week private betas will see more sites be closed as people run out of questions to ask: we need public access to get more content.

4:51 PM

Seems like the consensus is that it's no big problem.

@ArtOfCode If they petter after a week or two, I wouldn't see the issue

@ArtOfCode That could be a problem.

You know what? I think I might see if people'll have me as mod here, too. I'd like the challenge, it's a different kind of site.

@HDE226868 Alright, because I have some questions with answers that I've thought of, but was nervous that I may be promoting a product.

@HDE226868 Aye, I'm tempted to make a meta post about it.

as in, meta SE

4:53 PM

@ArtOfCode I think it's been discussed before though

@Zizouz212 As long as they're different products. If you're promoting one, it'll be seen as spam after multiple answers.

@ArtOfCode Yes of course. I obviously can't make anything for life :)

Damn it. 36 questions about usbs

Nah, but none for my question :)

2 questions, coming right up :D

Here's one:

1 hour later…

6:27 PM

> I think third party hosted hardware should be on topic. I do not think third party providers should be on topic. Who controls the hardware is unimportant to us.

0

Q: Concern over the effects of 3-week private betas

In this post on Meta Hardware Recommendations (requires registration through A51 to see), Robert Cartaino tells us that the Stack Exchange team have decided to extend the private beta period to 3 weeks. To quote: We've extended the private betas to last about three weeks total. In actuality, ...

support beta-sites private-beta

6:49 PM

I've posted another question. I think this one tests the

> Electronically controlled "stuff", but it has to be more than a simple on/off switch.

bullet in my Meta answer about what's on topic.

Thoughts?

@Andy I want to say it's on-topic, but it really does depend if we're limiting to computer or related hardware.

Fair enough. I think it's on topic too, but I think a few questions testing the limits we've discussed on Meta are important too

1 hour later…

8:16 PM

I'm awfully bored... meta.law.stackexchange.com/a/277/909

@ArtOfCode I officially no longer like you...

@Zizouz212 :P

Well, I guess I'm bored. Give me something to do :)

Write a chat program, entirely in Java.

Lazy

If you want to make it really interesting (read: impossible), don't use java.lang.*

@Zizouz212 Also takes a long time. I did mine over 2 months.

8:22 PM

@ArtOfCode Oh that's fine. I don't believe I've ever really imported it anyway :P

@ArtOfCode I could probably do it in Python within a couple weeks, if I tried, and didn't get bored half way through :/

@Zizouz212 Ah, but you use it every time you use a String.

@Zizouz212 That's what they all say. "I could do that in a couple weeks"... I said that at the start of doing mine.

@ArtOfCode Except I don't use c# or java :)

@Zizouz212 It'll be just as hard in Python.

That's funny

Sure, you could make a barebones version that can send and receive streams in a couple weeks, and I did.

But making a nice UI for it, and implementing all the extra features that make it nice to use rather than simply technically possible to use takes a long time.

8:25 PM

Hey, I've got an API for it...

@Zizouz212 C# has an API for it, too.

@ArtOfCode That O

@Zizouz212 Um?

@ArtOfCode Except I wrote this :)

@Zizouz212 So use it. Use it to make the chat program, and that way you'll find all the nasty bugs in it.

8:31 PM

Ah, I'm bored. That's a Java API I wrote

8:56 PM

@Zizouz212 Start in on these notes.

@HDE226868 -_-

@HDE226868 Yeah. I definitely understand absolutely everything that paper says.

@ArtOfCode Seriously, if you start from the beginning it's simple.

@HDE226868 If you're astrophysics-minded, yes.

Try it. You'll like it.

8:59 PM

Anything that has a 15-page contents is too long for me.

1 word is too much

No

1-word-is-too-much

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