The 2nd Monitor - 2015-08-29 (page 3 of 3)

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10:03 PM

@edharned OP is clearly asking help me figure out why some ancestors have a large index than the node, which indicates that the code isn't working as intended (which makes it off-topic for Code Review), and has a specific issue. The problem with this question is that it needs a MCVE. — Mat's Mug 13 secs ago

hi!

how's it going

Greetings

10:17 PM

@Hosch250 That blog does make some assumptions I'm not too comfortable with though. But in general, it's a good read.

→ 41 messages moved to Nothing

nice move, and yes, pun intended

> The jobs that I interview candidates for have an unusual set of requirements.

Might be relevant to the assumptions that are being made.

I'm not finished reading yet.

@nhgrif Partly.

> Then I pick something that looks vaguely interesting and fairly recent on the candidate’s resume, and ask them to give me first the “elevator pitch” — a few sentences describing the project and why it was important or interesting — and then to describe the problem they had to solve in more detail.

What's wrong with that?

10:28 PM

The reason one is looking for a new job is usually because he either wants to broaden his horizon, got fed up with the old job or whatever.

If that project was a total loss, it could side-track the conversation easily.

That might be an assumption on your part.

It's what has happened before when I have conversations about such projects, though those weren't interviewers.

And I'd argue that as a computer programmer, you should probably take interviews even when you aren't explicitly looking for a new job.

That's certainly true.

Perhaps the case I'm talking about is too specific, but it does happen often enough I think.

And certainly, if you're applying to say, Microsoft, surely it's not a "this is my last resort--I'm applying here because I'm fed up with my current job"

10:30 PM

Stuff goes wrong.

And perhaps more importantly, maybe he doesn't want to hire people who wait until they're fed up with their current job before they start looking?

Perhaps he wants people who get recruited away from their current job before they get fed up

> As is often pointed out, astronomy is not the science of building telescopes.

heh

I could take my own situation for example. I got fed up with my last employer and went looking for the next. I found one, (I'll start in October), so all went well. But I'm glad they skipped over that part of my resumé (it wasn't something they were interested in, domain-wise).

That's not a problem with the interview style described in this blog article.

I couldn't defend that project if my life depended on it.

That's a problem with your resume if you have stuff on it that you don't want to talk about in an interview.

10:33 PM

Even if you are sick of it, presumably you could intelligently discuss what you did on it?

^ that

No, it's a problem I would encounter if I would be the interviewee in the process proposed.

@Hosch250 Yea, but not with enthusiasm like I could for the rest of the projects.

No, you should not under any circumstances, put something on your resume that you don't want to talk about in an interview.

@nhgrif Around here, a gap on your resumé is considered worse.

There's zero reason to unless you're looking for your first job...

I submit a 1-page resume.

10:34 PM

1-page is the recommendation here.

Captain Obvious

0

Q: Enter words and use letters to get Scrabble score

My program is complete and runs and gives me the output I expect. For example, if I enter "HELLO" I should get 8. I would like to know if there any improvements that can be made. #include "stdafx.h" #include <iostream> #include <cctype> #include <string> using namespace std; int gameScore(s...

Same here, but they'll always want the most recent one as well.

And I don't emphasize a time line of sorts necessarily, but more the most relevant stuff to whatever I'm applying to

I need to write a resume, then ask someone to review it on resume review.

So basically, the project will drop from my resumé for the next job, probably. But it could've been a problem for this series.

10:36 PM

And here's the thing Mast, no one wants to hire someone who can do nothing but complain about their current job.

@Hosch250 Has that been proposed on Area 51 yet?

@Mast I don't think so.

It will never survive, though.

@nhgrif I don't want to complain about it, which is why I'm glad we skipped that part. But if they ask, I'll have to tell them something.

@Hosch250 Definitely.

I'd probably tell them what languages where involved, a very abstract design and tell them I couldn't get into specifics. But for an interview, that may not be good enough.

And you can think of no way at all of describing what you did on the project without it negatively impacting your chances of getting the job you're applying for?

You're focusing on the wrong things.

@nhgrif I'm not good at hiding my hesitation. It would show.

10:38 PM

Mast, briefly, what's the problem with the job you don't want to talk about?

Management?

Evening

Like project management?

Poor team members?

The whole project should never have started in hindsight.

That's irrelevant, and that's outside the scope of a programmer's job...

And that wouldn't/shouldn't even come up.

(in an interview)

Many things went wrong. Expectations mainly, from all stakeholders and project members.

10:42 PM

Do you want to work for a company where that problem will be repeated?

No.

But at least I know what I should've done different now.

@EthanBierlein Greetings

If you can't find a way to talk about that in an interview in a way that doesn't make you come off negatively, then you're effectively doomed to eventually work for a company that repeats those mistakes.

Just as the company is using interviews to narrow down their pool of potential candidates, you should use interviews to narrow down the pool of company's whose offers you'd accept.

I should ask my interviewer to write a FizzBuzz.

Ship 10 resumes and know that by the time you're done with resumes, you'll have narrowed your list down to 5 of those. And of those 5, some will offer to you, some won't.

10:44 PM

To make sure I'll be working with people who are reasonable competent.

@Hosch250 Whoever interviews you will either be capable of writing FizzBuzz (it's trivial) or won't be a programmer.

You're not guaranteed to be interviewed by a programmer.

Interviews definitely go both ways, yea, but the interviewer usually leads at least part of the interview.

Sort of.

@nhgrif I'm usually interviewed by two people, a manager who'll be my supervisor if I accept and an engineer with years experience at the company.

You don't have to lead the interview to find out information or to possibly eliminate it.

You can eliminate it without even realizing you eliminated it.

10:48 PM

@nhgrif Sorry, I wandered off for a bit. I know a number of programming languages and have been programming since the late 1970s.

@Edward Mostly embedded languages or did you touch other domains as well?

"At my previous job, we spent an hour a day in meetings. That always bothered me. I didn't like spending that much time in meetings." And now, without asking that company about how much time they spend in meetings, you have probably eliminated any company that spends that meetings (or more) by virtue of the fact that your statement made them eliminate you from their list of candidates.

@Edward I'd start by writing a Java program, then search the web for specific problems, then put it on CR.

@Mast Yes, a large number of domains in that time. Everything from commercial antivirus code to BIOS development to database work.

Which specifically though? (Relevant to you learning Java)

10:50 PM

Oracle database work?

I'm most fluent with C, C++, Python, assembly languages (various), Perl. I know a couple others, but don't do much with them any more, like BASIC, FORTRAN, Forth, Erlang and Lisp and Java.

@Hosch250 No, the last serious db work I did was with dBASE, so that gives you some idea about timeframe...

I see.

I mean, I'd think C++ is probably the closest to Java.

@nhgrif Well actually, Java circa 2005 is probably even closer.

Python and C++ both look a little like it.

Probably, seeing as Java is built as a pure OO C++ originally (well, sort of).

10:54 PM

@Edward Yeah, that's true enough I guess.

@Hosch250 Reads more like C# though.

You mean C# reads like Java?

@Mast C# is based on Java.

Things really started with C.

C# is Microsoft's response to being sued by Sun Microsystems for the things Microsoft was doing to Java.

@nhgrif I'll take that into consideration. It seems so simple. I'll definitely need more interview experience, which is a matter of evaluating and more practice.

10:55 PM

Then C++ was built as an improvement of C.

@Hosch250 Ah, I never knew which was first.

Java is almost 10 years older than C#.

C++ and Objective-C are each about 10 years older than Java.

Java was designed because people were sick of C users writing C++ in a procedural style, so they built Java to be a pure OO language.

Well, I knew Java was old, but is old Java comparable to new Java?

Yes.

10:56 PM

Then Microsoft was modifying Java, or something, got sued, and C# is the result.

Next up - F# (which looks like Python's and .NET's illegitimate child).

I've always liked C# but not Java

@Hosch250 C# is not the result of MS-Java.

No, C# is the result of the lawsuit.

I call bullshit

But, C# was built because MS liked Java, but wanted to do things their own way.

And Oracle said No.

11:00 PM

22

A: What is the history of the creation of C#?

Semicolons are mathematically proven to make your language at least 9% sexier.

@Hosch250 I think F# is more like Haskell and .NET's illegitimate child.

Oracle has nothing to do with it @Hosch250

Oops, Sun.

Didn't Sun and Oracle merge?

10

A: What is the history of the creation of C#?

Microsoft was using Java: they had their own JVM and supported it in Internet Explorer, but they wanted Java to interoperate with existing C++/VB code bases, and extended Java to provide that. Sun didn't like that, because it didn't want to see "Microsoft Java" applications that wouldn't run on ...

Hey

Want to know how magical Swift is?

Yes

11:04 PM

swift-is-magic is barely a year old. It is already listed as an influence on a programming language.

rust implemented Swift's if let

Huh.

@Mat'sMug I'm so tempted to flag it NAA...

github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/160

@nhgrif I was expecting a fairy tale.

I wonder what programmers would think if I started calling C Sharp C Pound or C Hash.

11:06 PM

Like Eric and his packet gnomes.

swift-is-actual-magic swift-isnt-a-fairy-tale

3

esolangs.org/wiki/Magic

user image

Magic, ..., is a language where you summon spirits, which are objects with a list of instructions, to do your bidding, with spells which are the recipes of the spirits.

History teaches us to be wary of internet histories of programming languages.

11:08 PM

> enchant fizzbuzz if (= (% n 15) 0) and (print "FizzBuzz") (skip 3)

@Hosch250 They'd banish you to the horrid land of eternal VB6 programming.

So, nevermind how horrendous if (= (% n 15) 0) is... (skip 3) because we're still on the fence about whether or not GOTO is acceptable.

GOTO is better than (skip 3)

Because my GOTO doesn't break every time I put a new line of code between where I'm going from and where I'm going to... and I don't have to manually count lines.

2

Who uses skip 3?

"Magic" language.

@nhgrif You sound like an assembly language programmer, and I mean that it a good way.

11:11 PM

He's right ^^

I thought you were talking about Assembly at first.

But even Assembly has labels.

Oh, by the way...

@Mat'sMug Got my c# bronze badge. ;)

enchant fizzbuzz if (= (% n 15) 0) and (print "FizzBuzz") (skip 3)

oops

Cybersecurity Expert Gary Miliefsky

cyber security awareness month?

Wut...

11:13 PM

That video is from like October or November

I would never wish to see a skip n in place of a GOTO...that sounds like a horrible idea.

October 1, 2014

I only use that in tis-100 because JRO ACC is really freaking handy.

@nhgrif Users are stupid, but that security expert is really looks like he's trying to scare people instead of bringing valuable information.

Yeah. That video is absurd.

But his tip at the end suggests that an app that is less than 100kb is automatically safe.

11:16 PM

@nhgrif I had a phone interview for another job yesterday...

@Mast Unfortunately, that's a common flaw I've observed with certain "security experts."

Maybe people need to be scared.

5

@Edward Definitely.

That ^^

So... at work, we're going to organize a "hackathon" (as we call them) in which the challenge is to develop an app that is less than 100kb and is flashlight malware.

11:17 PM

I've heard a good scare is a relaxing as a vacation. Maybe it is a conspiracy to keep people from having their vacations.

@nhgrif Now that's a great way of teambuilding.

(I totally don't buy that, though.)

We regularly do "hackathons"

Last one we did, we were going to take on a project that required technologies that few people we had were familiar with

so the challenge was to build something with that

I think the point of this one will be to expose some real information about what is and isn't possible or reasonable with mobile apps.

Good method of inventorying what knowledge is available.

Yes, and also a way for people to collaborate in a fun way.

11:20 PM

@Hosch250 it's "sharp", as in "C sharp" or "D flat", in musical terms. c#-is-music

2

@Hosch250 Simply scaring people is easy and useless. Motivating and informing is harder but actually useful.

@Mat'sMug Like I don't know that.

@Mat'sMug Starred for c#-is-music.

@Mat'sMug That's it. Next project I'll write in D flat.

2

Jeroen Vannevel

dlang.org

get crackin'

11:21 PM

D != D flat

D Flat is what the trolls call C#.

@Hosch250 s/Linux people/trolls

3

You could use the real D flat language: thenextlanguage.net/introducing-db

lol

@Edward Won't load for me.

Oh wait, just loaded.

11:25 PM

More details on this fascinating new technology: codeproject.com/Articles/13639/Db-The-Future-Is-Coming

I don't like it because it's written as Db when in strictly ASCII text...which reminds me of Database.

Jeroen Vannevel

if (something)
}
  // do something
{

lol

@JeroenVannevel Should the parenthesis not be reversed as well?

@Edward I didn't know that existed.

Jeroen Vannevel

straight copy-paste from the official docs

11:26 PM

@JeroenVannevel That's awful.

ciao, all

This is awesome.

@Edward Release date: Apr 01, 2012

Took me way too long to notice that...

Db gives you access to generic Hash, Pot, Coke, Crystal, and other useful collections. These are cheaper implementations than those found in C#, reducing (if not actually eliminating) memory requirements, and in fact, the new generics actually accelerate the performance of your application. All the generics are handled in the StreetCorner.Pharmacy namespace.

Another benefit to the new generics is that they automatically spawn additional threads. The programmer should be careful that these other threads do not result in schizophrenic or psychotic behavior of the application. However, used in moderation, they can definitely enhance your end-user experience.

source

Q: Is this an unreasonably long function name? "CellContainingStringInRange"

I feel like this user learns nothing between each C++ question they post.

11:36 PM

@Zak Language? In C#, that's average.

VBA

Some people just don't @EthanBierlein.

For example, in each question, they always have using namespace std;.

And #include "stdafx.h" without the need for it.

No. It's not unreasonably long @Zak, but it's a noun. Method names should be verbs.

well, it means my code can read "set range = CellContainingStringInRange (searchRange, searchString)"

11:38 PM

And brr system("PAUSE");.

"FindCellContainingStringInRange" doesn't feel like it reads as well

@EthanBierlein I don't think I've seen it this bad with a user before.

Are such users worth a meta or do we just repeat ourselves and farm free points?

Maybe just point out that you've given them the same advice before?

and THEN if they don't change, well, I dunno :)

@Mast I mean sure, free points are nice, but I'm getting tired of elaborating about what I described above.

or you could just link your previous answer where appropriate?

11:41 PM

I might just start downvoting the posts if I don't see any change.

@EthanBierlein I'm in the process of writing standard answers for certain issues which are very extensive.

Nice.

That'll be very useful.

Actually, if nobody minds, I'm going to write a meta post on this.

Oh darn...

@Mast I keep using #include <iostream> and using namespce std because my professor requires them in the program codes that are turned in. — Duck 1 min ago

#Doomed

Is there a problem or not? This really is not the place to be asking "does my code lool right". There is another site for that codereview.stackexchange.com — Blakes Seven 21 secs ago

@Duck Show these answers to your professer an explain why these things are bad practice. — Ethan Bierlein 1 min ago

@Duck Just because this is a beginning course doesn't mean it's fine to get into bad habits. — Ethan Bierlein 14 secs ago

11:46 PM

@EthanBierlein Feel free to make it a meta.

do we have a wiki?

This is a situation which should have been discussed there at least once.

I se wiki referenced in meta sometimes but I've no idea what or where it is

@Zak Community wiki's.

588

Q: What are "Community Wiki" posts?

Some questions and answers are marked Community Wiki and are owned by a Community Wiki user. Why have Community Wiki posts? How do Community Wiki posts work? How does a post become a Community Wiki post? How can the Community Wiki status be removed from a post? Return to FAQ Index

support faq community-wiki posts

aka "CW"

11:48 PM

RTF

M

@Mat'sMug No, Read The FAQ

No M necessary

lol yeah yeah

ah, okay. I thought it meant an actual wiki and I was confused because I couldn't find a button for it anywhere :)

>I'm confused now: I was under the impression that wireless was done via carrier pigeons. Has this task been outsourced to fairies now?

11:52 PM

What are people's opinions on auto?

Did I break markdown again...

@EthanBierlein Most people like it, I don't.

@Mast I agree with you

It reduces code clarity.

In some cases.

@EthanBierlein The advantage of C++ in my opinion is you always know what you get.

There's no magic involved.

No assumptions.

No implicit type casting.

You all throw that overboard when you start auto-ing.

If I wanted an auto I'd write Python

2

Question, did any "generic-<language> improvements" a la meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/1644/… ever get put up?

BEcause if not, I'd like to revive the idea

@Zak We already did, couple of minutes ago.

@Mat'sMug is against, so we'll just have to buy Simon's protection and make it happen.

Captain Obvious

11:57 PM

0

Q: Full C Snake game ( but very slow )

Hello guys I today I managed to finish my C approach on legendary Snake game. You move by wasd. I would like to hear your oppinion and maybe ideas, how to improve frame rate, because now it sort of flickers ( but it is playable ). #include <conio.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <ctime> #include <...

@EthanBierlein Would it have helped if all her questions were tagged beginner?

@Zak We could make it a CR project on GitHub or something.

Create a folder for every language and a file for every common problem.

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