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user55340
12:41 AM
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@MichaelT poor cat
you can just see it planning on getting its owner back for that
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
sweet. type inference has passed through to code generation successfully (and then promptly blew up).
 
user20683
@Telastyn Se Habla Kaboom?
 
user55340
@ratchetfreak Indeed. Though alternate interpretation... (different cat...) everything2.com/title/…
 
Duga
Duga
1:13 AM
Hi Jonah. Welcome to StackOverflow! According to the community guidelines, questions that are not directly related to specific programming problems should be posted on Programmers StackExchange: programmers.stackexchange.com. Best of luck in finding a Hackathon near you. Go RoR! — Dimitry_N just now
 
user55340
0
Q: A teenager looking to join a local hackathon

Jonah WeinbaumRealistically, how could a 15 year old who only know Ruby/Rails get into a hackathon considering he is not part of any school and the only major hackathon near me is mhacks in Ann Arbor, it is teams of four, and being a young liability no team would likely accept a teenager who only knows rails, ...

ruby-on-rails
 
user55340
thanks, sorry about that — Jonah Weinbaum 1 min ago
 
user55340
0
Q: A teenager looking to join a hackathon

Jonah WeinbaumRealistically, how could a 15 year old who only know Ruby/Rails get into a hackathon considering he is not part of any school and the only major hackathon near me is mhacks in Ann Arbor, it is teams of four, and being a young liability no team would likely accept a teenager who only knows rails, ...

ruby-on-rails
 
user55340
I'm sorry that you got some bad advice on Stack Overflow from someone who wasn't aware of the scope of the site. The help center describes what types of questions are appropriate here - those of design and architecture (not general "ask a programmer" type questions). Questions of education and 'what to learn' are off topic here because they are too particular to a specific person and we'd really need to get to know you to be able to answer it well. — MichaelT 15 secs ago
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
Unhandled Exception: System.BadImageFormatException: An attempt was made to load
a program with an incorrect format. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007000B)
at _.entrypoint => Void()
:[
I like how Reflection.Emit totally lets you just screw the pooch. I understand that individual calls don't know much about their kin/context, it's just kinda peculiar after working in high level languages for so long.
 
user114359
1:57 AM
I thought Jon Skeet knows everything about C#?
 
user114359
70
Q: What makes the Visual Studio debugger stop evaluating a ToString override?

Jon SkeetEnvironment: Visual Studio 2015 RTM. (I haven't tried older versions.) Recently, I've been debugging some of my Noda Time code, and I've noticed that when I've got a local variable of type NodaTime.Instant (one of the central struct types in Noda Time), the "Locals" and "Watch" windows don't app...

c# debugging visual-studio-2015
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
2:09 AM
woo, generic inference works.
 
 
4 hours later…
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
5:51 AM
@Snowman Microsoft doesn't test their code... they release it to the public so that Jon Skeet can test it.
 
 
2 hours later…
Duga
Duga
7:36 AM
You'd be better off posting this to programmers.stackexchange.com — Matt 57 secs ago
 
Duga
Duga
7:55 AM
Thanks a lot @Matt and Adam Houldsworth . I was actually looking at this question which suggests that recommendations questions are not welcomed in SO. And it seems as per this answer that as Matt said, the question belongs more to programmers.stackexchange as opposed to SO. I will give it another try. — Eyad 32 secs ago
 
 
3 hours later…
Duga
Duga
11:16 AM
This is offtopic: Suggestions should be migrated to programmers.stackexchange.com — Thorsten S. 53 secs ago
 
Duga
Duga
11:32 AM
You might have better luck on programmers.stackexchange.com as this is not a specific programming question — cabellicar123 1 min ago
@ThorstenS. yes, I flagged it as too broad. It needs some work regardless before we know which site it belongs at. If it ends up as a design review or whiteboard-ish issue that is not a poll or discussion then Programmers: if it is "this is the code we tried and it does not work" then SO. — Snowman 5 secs ago
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
11:54 AM
Announcing StackExchange.Precompilation
Samo Prelog on July 21, 2015
Do you have an ASP.NET MVC 5 project and hate how slow aspnet_compiler.exe is? Do you feel you're missing out on all the meta-programming goodies DNX brings to the table? We have a solution for you. Enter StackExchange.Precompilation.
 
André
André
12:39 PM
Happy coffee day
 
Duga
Duga
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange Blog: Announcing StackExchange.Precompilation
posted on July 23, 2015 by Samo Prelog

One of the main guidelines at Stack Exchange is that we are open by default. So, I'm excited to announce that we're open-sourcing StackExchange.Precompilation, a tool to help you bring faster pre-compile times and Roslyn (DNX inspired) goodies to your old ASP.NET MVC 5 project.

 
user114359
@André I thought only days that end in "y" were coffee day... oh wait...
 
enderland
enderland
 
user114359
> According to a groundbreaking new study by the Department of Labor, working—the physical act of engaging in a productive job-related activity—may greatly increase the amount of work accomplished during the workday, especially when compared with the more common practices of wasting time and not working.
 
André
André
12:48 PM
@Snowman I actually thought about that for a while.. "But don't they always end with y? Oh wait..."
 
user114359
I am Irish. I only drink whiskey on days that end in "y"
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
1:56 PM
@StackExchange is it bad that this blog post 404s?
 
user114359
 
enderland
enderland
2:30 PM
speaking of fail, I just scheduled a meeting for yesterday
turns out... ITS THURSDAY
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
speaking of fail, my PSX emulator suddenly can't save/load with memory cards anymore, so I'm stuck with save states
 
Duga
Duga
eh... it really is opinion based, although I agree that a discussion on the pros and cons would add value (at least for me personally). Sadly, that's not what SO is for, and I guess not what programmers.se is for either. Not sure where would be a good place... in chat maybe? — DrewJordan 45 secs ago
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Announcing StackExchange.Precompilation
Samo Prelog on July 23, 2015
Do you have an ASP.NET MVC 5 project and hate how slow aspnet_compiler.exe is? Do you feel you're missing out on all the meta-programming goodies DNX brings to the table? We have a solution for you. Enter StackExchange.Precompilation.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
3:12 PM
on the other hand...I don't take damage anymore?
good thing I'm not playing this game for the challenge
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
3:31 PM
oh I died
this is confusing
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:23 PM
Happy coffee day
gah, been sitting here coding for a solid 4 hours - think the blood is starting to pool... caffeine, make the blood move! I have more codes to make...
2
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:35 PM
...maybe I'll just take a little nap right here...
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
should we send a care package?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ixrec will it come with some of those fake I'm-not-sleeping glasses? I think I need a pair
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:57 PM
gah, hard to tell if I'm on the center of a key, or going to slip off the edge and fatfinger two keys with my pinky now that it's healed but the pad is numb
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa Could be worse, you could be a dead teamster.
 
enderland
enderland
5:15 PM
@durron597 it's only low 80s here... going for a run over lunch outside today... somehow, complaining seems like it'd be a good way to get perspective from you ;)
 
durron597
durron597
5:45 PM
@enderland I was in such pain after my tuesday run that i'm taking a few days off. I'll run again tomorrow.
I played tennis last night and my legs were like lead weights.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Snowman true. I much prefer being an ex-teamster, I came far too close to being a dead one for my own comfort...
 
psr
psr
5:57 PM
@JimmyHoffa When those guys say they've heard enough about Haskell, it's time to lay off.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@psr yeah, they used to know a thing or two about laziness, but they all got too eager after a while and I had to start keeping that shit to myself...
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa - By the way, I've got mercury.js integrated with our existing angular.js app. Our 1000 question data entry form with all the business logic has gone from an initial render time of 30 seconds (latest version of angular plus some speed tweaks) to 2 seconds.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@psr cool. How was the integration? Trouble tying it into angular?
to be fair, v1 is a bit shite. To be extra fair, v2 is the epitome of second system effect - "in the works" permanently...
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa I was able to make the browserified file into an angular service. I had to change it a bit - it used to set up the initial state, turn those into observable objects, and set up an observer so that it re-rendered when they changed. Now we call the render manually on events and use unadorned JSON data for the state. Which is better in some ways anyway. The event handlers are in the angular controller.
(The observable business came from me starting with a copied sample app, not out of any conviction on my part).
I'm curious how Angular2 will turn out. It seems to owe a lot to react (as does mercury).
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
6:12 PM
@psr cool, so tied in not too terribly then
 
enderland
enderland
6:24 PM
@durron597 I only made it about 2.75 miles or so.. :(
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland what pace?
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 pretty crappy, probably 10.25 min/miles?
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland yeah my 4 miles on tuesday was like 11:36s
maybe a little faster
 
enderland
enderland
I've been doing about 10 min miles roughly give or take
but Tuesday on the treadmill, even though I was super tired, I set the treadmill at 9min miles and ran about 3 of them
so I think I'm .... tired from that
 
user114359
I remember being able to run 6 minute miles
 
user114359
6:29 PM
Now I would run 6 hour miles
 
durron597
durron597
Want to join me and enderland in no longer meeting the stereotype of the out-of-shape programmer?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I was out of shape long before I was a programmer
 
enderland
enderland
@Ixrec perfect, in a bit you can then say you were a programmer long before you were in shape!
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:07 PM
pace really doesn't matter as much as everyone gives it credit for; the science behind it from what I've read says you burn X amount of calories based on the weight carried times the distance - and the pace has a minimal effect on your energy requirements for that. I'm sure increased pace helps, but not nearly as much as people think
 
durron597
durron597
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
unfortunately - if you lose weight, you have to increase your distance continuously to match the lower energy requirement of making your body run.
 
durron597
durron597
@JimmyHoffa I know that if I run one mile in 8 minutes I'm wiped, but I can run four 4 in an 11 minute pace.
I don't care what the science says, that is what's true about my body.
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa depends on why you are running, I'm running more for the cardio/mental health elements (though I guess maintaining/losing weight would be nice, too)
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@durron597 do we really need more than 20 downvotes?
 
durron597
durron597
7:09 PM
@Ixrec no, that was the joke
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@durron597 science is interesting in how well it accounts for things. How do you feel 3 minutes after your 8 minute mile? Probably pretty similar to how you feel after finishing a single 11 minute mile.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
oh you were joking
that looked identical to all the times you meant it
 
durron597
durron597
@Ixrec what can I say, I'm good at deadpanning. in a sanitized text-only environment
 
user20683
@durron597 he's got an hour and half
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa case1: dead and/or on the ground wiped out, case 2: lightly elevated heartrate/breathing heavy
 
user41796
7:13 PM
@JimmyHoffa kinda yes, kinda no. Pace affects overall exertion level which has a close to linear effect of calories expended
 
user41796
In other words, it takes more energy to make a body move faster
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
for some reason I've never been able to run a mile period, my body just cannot seem to handle running that long at any speed
 
user20683
@Ixrec built like a mountain man?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
but I have above average endurance when it comes to hiking and climbing, and I'm healthy in every other respect
 
enderland
enderland
@Ixrec when I first started running my goal was to run 15 minutes, and I only was "able" to do it by doing something like 2 min light jogging, 30 seconds walking
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:15 PM
@enderland that's pretty much what I did in PE class every single day
 
user41796
@Ixrec That gets into the relationship between fast twitch and slow twitch fibers
 
user20683
and tolerance for lactic acid
 
user41796
Or at least that's the theory claimed to back that phenomenon. But you're not alone in that case
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
what does "mountain man" and "slow/fast twitch fibers" mean in this context?
 
durron597
durron597
I wonder how much the effort in overcoming air friction affects the energy needed to run faster
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:16 PM
I know what lactic acid is
 
durron597
durron597
I wonder if pro marathon runners try to draft like cyclists do
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 minimal at running speeds we're talking about
 
user20683
@Ixrec mountain man is an endomorph
 
user20683
 
user20683
ectomorphs don't need to be hella tall, this one is though
 
user20683
7:18 PM
endomorph = muscles under fat even when fit. Massive core, can hit like a truck
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer quite true - ectos exist throughout the height range.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
weird how I've never heard of any of this
 
enderland
enderland
A lot of health/diet information is basically "scientific" old wives tales...
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> Figuring out how many calories you burn when running is, on a simple level, a fairly straightforward calculation. Most experts (and lots of studies) suggest that a person of average weight burns about 100 calories in a mile of running. That number goes up slightly if you weigh more or if you’re a less efficient runner—both of which require that you use more energy to cover the same distance. On the contrary, that number of calories doesn’t go up if you run faster.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa That's contrary to what I've seen / heard.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:21 PM
exertion likely exercises your cardiovascular system more, strengthening it and training it to operate more efficiently which is good for your overall ability to burn calories etc
 
user20683
@enderland hence why we look at Health.SE with squinted eyes
 
user20683
that reminds me
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 it's something I've read everywhere I've ever looked into it
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa this assumes your running speed is fungible and something you can just slide up/down without affecting your mileage, though
 
user41796
I just realized the difference. I'm talking in terms of calories burned per hour whereas that article is focusing on calories burned per mile
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:22 PM
@enderland no, this assumes nothing but states a few things.
 
user41796
A faster run will notch up more miles in the hour and therefore more calories burned for the hour
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 that's all I've been talking about. If you have the time, don't worry about your pace is my point. 10-11 minute miles - do a few and you're still burning a lot of calories. People so often are setting pace goals which really aren't the point
 
user55340
@WorldEngineer there is a game with those as traits.
 
user55340
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa okay, yeah, I'd agree with that. It only becomes an issue if you're crunched for time
 
user55340
7:24 PM
This one is annoying.
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa it depends on their goals, though
 
user55340
Alektorophobia
Alektorophobia is a specific phobia, the fear of chickens and other fowls such as roosters. Alektorophobia may also include eggs and dead chickens (although typically does not include cooked chickens). Suggested rationales for this fear include a general fear of birds, past trauma related to an attack or aggressive behavior by chickens, and feelings triggered by the daily habits and behaviors of chickens. == Prevalence == Both genetic and environmental factors are often responsible for the presence of a phobia. Some phobias have been associated with a fearful first encounter with the phobic object...
 
enderland
enderland
If the goal is losing weight, then yeah just getting 'er done is what matters, but if you want to be in better shape it's likely running faster will cause this more quickly [while not hating your life doing other activities which get you there faster]
 
user41796
@enderland Nah, you want intervals for that. :-)
 
user20683
kettlebells if you want to get stronger
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:25 PM
@GlenH7 sure, but really - are people doing 3-6 8 minute miles instead of 10 minute miles to save those extra 6-12 minutes they'd spend running if they slowed down? If you get up a couple few miles and are just dying - slow down instead of stopping. Go longer. Really that 8 minute mile doesn't save you that much time unless you're running like 20 miles..
you'd have to be really crunched for time not to be able to afford the cost of a 10 minute mile vs an 8 minute mile... and the comfort and ability it gives people to go greater distance thus burning more calories really it's a bit of a no-brainer if calorie burning is your purpose.
 
user20683
 
user41796
yeah, can't argue with that
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer you've read? How good is it?
 
user20683
this if you want to be stretchy but wouldn't be caught dead in a yoga studio
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer tensegrity FTW! ahh castaneda was an awesome con man
 
user55340
7:28 PM
s/studio/pants/
 
user20683
@GlenH7 it's full of infomercial stuff in the back but he's solid as far as I can tell
 
user20683
@MichaelT no one wants to be caught in pants
 
user20683
did you not see the sign on the door?
 
user55340
I'm at work. No options.
 
enderland
enderland
WFH ftw?
 
user20683
7:29 PM
@MichaelT Is a kilt outside the dress code?
 
user55340
I would believe so.
 
user20683
@MichaelT it is, ironically enough, not outside mine. It'd need to be like slack material and down to the knee but that aside...
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer this needs to happen - specifically a a slack kilt...
that's hilarious
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa yeah...I don't wear shorts
 
user20683
let alone kilts
 
user20683
7:35 PM
besides, my legs would blind people
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
You need a tan.
 
user20683
@RobertHarvey I am half-Welsh
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer I didn't mean you wearing one - I meant a slack kilt. It just needs to be a thing.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
It shows a lot of balls to wear a kilt.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Friend of mine routinely does so
 
user55340
7:41 PM
Especially if worn without undergarments.
 
user41796
@MichaelT which is the traditional way
 
user20683
 
Simon André Forsberg
Simon André Forsberg
@RobertHarvey I thought the puns would stop when rolfl stepped down as a mod.
Or was there no pun intended?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@SimonAndréForsberg It's an old Jimmy Carr joke.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer it's not a kilt unless it's patterned plaid. That's just a dress skirt.
 
user41796
7:42 PM
@JimmyHoffa Commando dress skirt
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
So in this application, there are classes that implement several interfaces. Because those interfaces are explicitly implemented, each interface is serving as a sort of "view" into the class. But each interface also appears to be a "role," of sorts. Doesn't that violate SRP?
 
user41796
I wonder if there's an intentional play on the phrase "going commando" there
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 I don't call my pants Commando pants just because of my wearing technique, that is a dress skirt no matter what's under it.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@MichaelT ^^
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey only if it makes more since. Right now it's just violating decency.
 
enderland
enderland
7:44 PM
You could all just not wear skirts kilts and not worry about this subject... right?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
room topic changed to The Whiteboard: General Discussion for programmers.stackexchange.com Pants optional when telecommuting. [coffee-day] [facedesk] [good-booze] [grog-nerds] [horror-stories] [monads] [my-code-is-compiling] [parsing-errors] [the-other-monitor]
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa facedesk is @AshleyNunn 's current tech support job
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@JimmyHoffa The only way all these interfaces make sense is if you treat it as "interface-based programming," which turns out to be an actual thing. Once you drink that kool-aid, a lot of things like IoC and TDD start to make sense.
There has to be a purpose, otherwise all of those empty interfaces would just be needless ceremony.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey It's all about the contract
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey IoC does make sense...
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
7:47 PM
If it's done properly, the interfaces will document the architecture.
 
user20683
@RobertHarvey the key being propriety
 
user20683
though I'm mostly making stuff up. I really should work in sales or something
 
user20683
the store manager apparently did say in a managers meeting that I was one of the best natural salesmen she'd ever seen. It's a pity I'm lousy at selling me.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I was talking to my roomate about her car, because she didn't pull it far enough into the garage and the garage door carved a nice deep scratch into her back bumper. She said, "This car was supposed to be temporary, and I don't even like gray. He was a really good salesman."
Funny thing is, she also works in sales.
She would probably call herself a "Technical Consultant."
 
enderland
enderland
heh I bought a road bike yesterday from Craigslist and got the person to drop the price $50 from what it was listed at just by asking what she wanted for it
 
user41796
7:51 PM
@RobertHarvey I have studied sales solely so I can understand the techniques that are used against me.
 
enderland
enderland
I felt bad enough for her that I didn't even bother to try to negotiate more with her
and then she gave me $10 off since I just had $20s and 2 fives...
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Sounds like she just wanted to get rid of it anyway.
 
user20683
I once had a lady try the goo-goo eyes on me to get a discount. It didn't work.
 
user15026
@WorldEngineer Yeah, you don't strike me as someone susceptible to that whatsoever.
 
enderland
enderland
@RobertHarvey yeah, she was pretty obviously not comfortable in a negotiate/buy environment... or maybe she was messing with me wanting to trick me into not negotiating (??)
 
user41796
7:54 PM
@WorldEngineer Worst I ever had to deal with was someone demanding an exorbitant discount when they were only purchasing a few hundred dollars worth of merchandise at a place where you could blow past a grand without even blinking.
 
user41796
"Let me get my manager for you, sir."
 
user20683
@GlenH7 yeah, our bulk discount starts at 50 copies
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 to be fair a lot of managers do have flexibility on pricing
 
user41796
@enderland True, but this was at a very large electronics retailer and he was buying low end product with less margin on it. The least he could have done was to buy something with a higher margin... :-)
 
enderland
enderland
Hah, we have one of those in my area, I frequently use it... whenever I want a new laptop, just to go play with all the new models and then not buy it there
 
durron597
durron597
7:58 PM
@enderland Is that the internal one or the external one
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 external
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland Did I ever tell you about the guy with a PhD who was working at the DoD who wanted to quit to work for us for nothing?
"I want to get into finance"
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
See, this is the kind of crap I don't even... 
public interface Qux
{
	public guid Foo { get; }
	public guid Bar { get; }
	public guid Baz { get; }
}

public interface PrettierNameThanQux: Qux
{
	public guid Foo { get; }
	public guid Bar { get; }
	public guid Baz { get; }
}

CallSomethingThatTakesQuxParameter(shouldBeQuxButIsReallyPrettierNameThanQux);
Bleaugh.
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 lol. "so you want us to give you free training?"
 
durron597
durron597
a guy with a phd making 90k at the DoD is going to be happy working for us for nothing? please.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
8:06 PM
What's the angle? He thinks he can learn how to get rich trading stocks?
 
durron597
durron597
@RobertHarvey who the hell knows
We didn't hire him. He was living in maryland. "I'll pay my own moving expenses"
It didn't add up. Something was fishy.
(he was originally from here)
 
enderland
enderland
90k with a phd, in maryland? that's why you don't go to do a doctorate to make money kids
 
durron597
durron597
he was pretty young
like 26 or 27
 
enderland
enderland
hmm
 
user20683
@enderland 90k for public PhD isn't bad
 
user20683
8:11 PM
that's what an associate professor would make at my alma mater
 
user20683
in the sciences anyway
 
user20683
liberal arts is like 60ish I think
 
user20683
if you want to know what a typical academic for a public school makes, you can always just go to a given state's website and look it up
 
user20683
it's all a matter of public record
 
enderland
enderland
@WorldEngineer yeah but maryland is pretty high CoL
I think most of us, except Thomas and Robert, live in pretty low cost of living locations
 
user20683
8:16 PM
 
user20683
Salary data for Baltimore
 
user20683
and basic living wage
 
user20683
it's about halfway between Atlanta and SF
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland O_o no it isn't
@enderland not I
 
user20683
 
enderland
enderland
8:18 PM
@JimmyHoffa 50k where I live salary is 56.5k in baltimore according to money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland which means you're pretty close.
 
enderland
enderland
guess Denver is about 10% more salary, too
maybe my frame of reference is hopelessly broken living in flyover country ;)
 
user20683
Starting salary for a Fog Creek engineer = 75k
 
user20683
last I checked anyway
 
user20683
probably more now
 
enderland
enderland
8:27 PM
does not compute. lol
 
user20683
@enderland in NYC
 
enderland
enderland
@WorldEngineer I know, so that's like $30k where I live (or something equally bad)
 
user20683
equivalent to 35k in Atlanta
 
user20683
@enderland aye
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer that's not enough to eat baked beans in NYC- it's $80k a can. Without canopener...
 
enderland
enderland
8:28 PM
@JimmyHoffa easy open?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland I think they just make Marc Gravell bite the top off
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa from the UK? that's impressive
 
enderland
enderland
It's funny to convert my current salary to NYC, lolz
speaking of crazy monies, Apple has 200 billion in cash equivalents right now
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland money stops meaning anything in real values above 10 billion. (Real values: Minus fees, costs, and deductions.)
Or put another way: if you could create a building out of $100s, every floor above ground level is just pointless.
 
user41796
8:48 PM
@JimmyHoffa You know this from first hand experience, I presume?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 you know how it is, you go to see a man about a horse, next thing you know, you're out one money building...
 
durron597
durron597
 
user41796
Occupational hazard I haven't quite encountered, fortunately.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> is wrong, because you're trying to write into uninitialized memory. This in turn invokes undefined behaviour.
Iduno, if I'm being entirely honest, undefined behaviour is historically my favorite kind.. you just don't know what you're going to get, how fun! Besides, if people didn't want undefined behaviour, C and C++ would have died years ago. Clearly having no clue what their software will do is highly desirable to a large number of folks.
 
user20683
 
user20683
8:51 PM
thoughts on the above?
 
user20683
in the market for something vaguely current
 
durron597
durron597
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
that appears to be a wicked deal off hand - but I frankly can't claim first hand knowledge as it's been 3-4 years since I last shopped laptops
 
user20683
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer 8GB of SSD is kinda silly
 
user20683
8:53 PM
this is my alternative should they run out
 
user20683
@GlenH7 agreed
 
user41796
Not enough to hold much of the OS, so it's not really going to buy you all that much
 
user41796
I'd take a 7200 rpm drive instead
 
user20683
I figure add memory to the alt
 
durron597
durron597
@GlenH7 Stupid that we live in such a world that OSes are bigger than 8 GB
@GlenH7 Hell no
Do not put 7200 rpm drives in a laptop
All they do is make them hot and they don't gain you very much.
 
user41796
8:54 PM
@durron597 7200 rpm drive vs 5400 rpm drive & an 8 GB SSD. I'll go with the faster drive
 
user41796
Had an 7200 on my old work laptop and it worked well enough. Better than the hybrid that I've got now
 
durron597
durron597
@GlenH7 I'll go with the 5400 rpm drive and then go buy a steak dinner
 
user41796
@durron597 I'll venture a guess that the person purchasing the laptop isn't terribly interested in steak dinners. :-)
 
user20683
@GlenH7 I don't get a choice in the matter
 
enderland
enderland
what's your pricerange @WorldEngineer?
 
user20683
8:55 PM
@enderland 500 max
 
durron597
durron597
Laptop^ had a 7200 drive and I couldn't put it on my lap for more than an hour. Not much of a laptop. If I had it on a desk I had to put it on stuff to let air flow through.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer 4GB seems a bit light, but may be okay depending upon what you're wanting to do with it
 
user20683
@GlenH7 hence the memory upgrade
 
user20683
it's like 30 bucks for 4 more gigs
 
user20683
and then I just take it apart and install
 
user20683
8:56 PM
and done
 
user20683
saving money vs a true gfx card when I want to do gfx work
 
user20683
my current chipset is a GMA 945
 
durron597
durron597
 
user41796
I'd verify you can do that first. My understanding is that many laptops are moving to integrated RAM
 
user20683
so literally ANYTHING is an improvement
 
user20683
8:57 PM
@GlenH7 it lists multiple slots
 
user20683
and only one chip
 
user20683
I know Apple does that
 
user41796
would hope you'd be good to go then. :-)
 
user20683
@GlenH7 if there's one thing that silly little B.A. taught me, it's "Do your research"
 
user41796
quite true, quite true
 
durron597
durron597
9:00 PM
 
enderland
enderland
I'm lame and like macs... plz dont ban me from here!
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland this is my first ever time working on one - it's great! It's just like windows! ...because I installed windows on it. The end.
 
enderland
enderland
the hardware is my favorite part of my macbook pro, honestly, though I do like the OS a fair bit
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
actually it's not great - I've had numerous bizarro hardware issues since getting it. Got a new mouse and keyboard - plug them in - nope. They work on PC but not mac! Got fancy $200 thunderbolt hub - works great! For arbitrary number of minutes, then decides to just stop working. Starts working again! Eventually...when it feels like it...at totally random times...
It's quite fast though.
(those hardware issues occur both when I boot into OSX or Windows)
 
enderland
enderland
peripherals are a weak link unfortunately... I have a mouse with middle click button which was hard to get working
 
user20683
9:10 PM
 
durron597
durron597
I bought an ubuntu laptop. both microsoft and apple get $0, except i'm sure microsoft owned some of the patents on the hardware
@WorldEngineer What did you think of the two I linked
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 my current laptop is almost 5 years old, and works like a champ - but when it dies i'm going to have to make a big decision... :(
 
user20683
@durron597 first is insufficient, second one would be good but I'd have to pay sales tax on it
 
user20683
if I order from newegg, I don't because they are in CA IIRC
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland I don't understand why people stand by their macs - too many "weak link"s, the OS is decent but lots of software you might want and people just say "Oh well, yeah that isn't really there much..." and then toss on the fact that you're paying 30% more than you would for non-apple... I just don't get it. I spent $500 on a laptop 4 years ago, it still works great- even plays lots of games if not the newest ones...
 
user20683
9:12 PM
@JimmyHoffa you are a techie and a gamer
 
user20683
Macs are not aimed at techies or gamers per se
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer and apple gives me technical troubles... Don't know how non-technical people deal with it
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa 3 years of apple care
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa I like the hardware, though the new keyboards are a step down imo, but when I bought it, no windows laptop had a trackpad even close - and I like good quality screens, and a "feels solid" machine, plus the keyboard is good
the new keyboards feel cheap to me, though
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@WorldEngineer so they just use support services more instead of buying a device that doesn't need support?
 
user20683
9:14 PM
@JimmyHoffa they'd still use tech support for windows
 
enderland
enderland
apple sells an experinece, part of htat (to some) is "if you have problems we will make the process of taking care of them easy!"
 
user20683
but it's OMG a mac so that makes everything okay
 
enderland
enderland
and I think for most people it is, they just pay a lot for it
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
(woohoo, classic flame wars will never die! youtube.com/watch?v=cvXZVJXIyqM )
VIM SUCKS!
 
user20683
Amiga is 30 today
 
user20683
9:15 PM
here's to the valiant losers in the computer wars
 
durron597
durron597
@WorldEngineer Are you ok with refurb?
 
user20683
@durron597 theoretically? I mean my current mac is used
 
user20683
refurb PCs scare me
 
user20683
a little
 
durron597
durron597
@WorldEngineer bit.ly/1OAHJBt
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
9:20 PM
@WorldEngineer I buy most all my hardware refurbed; only thing I won't is PSU/mobo
 
user20683
yeah, my failures are LCD crystal, Mobo, Mobo, HDD
 
durron597
durron597
@WorldEngineer How do those 5 look to you?
the display on my laptops always break first.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
O_o how do you get a laptop display to break? Run it over?
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa overheat it
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Is that like a problem from 10 years ago or something? That sounds nuts.. Unless I guess if it's some insane high quality screen?
 
durron597
durron597
9:24 PM
@JimmyHoffa I don't know, it just stops working
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I can never tell quality differences with audio/visual stuff so I'm always happy to have mid-grade screens and worthless audio (I'm deaf, seriously, mono is fine for me)
 
durron597
durron597
I probably carry it from the monitor half way more often than i should.
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa actually yes
 
user20683
mine was a pentium 4 behemoth
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa I had a roommate with a Dell laptop that had something start on fire inside of it that stopped the display from working, we figured it melted a bunch of cables connecting to the display
 
user15026
9:32 PM
@enderland Holy shit
 
user15026
And here I thought I was hard on things.
 
user15026
(My current best "I killed electronics" was somehow melting the entire control box for the lights in my last car so that they just stayed on forever and ever until they burned out (and my dad replaced the box). I still have the melted rainbow puddle of plastic and wires somewhere, because it amused me. In 30+ years of being a mechanic, my dad had never seen that happen, and didn't know it was possible.)
 
user55340
11:28 PM
I agree with this. The answer to such questions is basically the entire language specification plus the documentation to the core and standard libraries plus a set of definitions of all relevant CS terms that are needed to understand the specification, maybe a course in formal languages to be able to read the grammar from the spec, a course in formal logic to be able to even understand the syntax of the type system rules, let alone their meaning, and a whole smorgasbord of other things. — Jörg W Mittag 15 mins ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
11:41 PM
just got an nvidia shield tv in the mail the other day - didn't realize it was only released a month ago
no wonder I can't find shit about it
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
I have to pick up a new video card today
i hope replacing my video card will solve my starcraft 2 woes
 

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