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servantofWiser
servantofWiser
4:06 PM
Hello everyone :)
I'll start over from here again...
The thing is I give weight to OT as equal to this teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.c… and ....both almost 99.9% comply to Islam, except for NT - teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.c…... So was just curious as to how the apostles are viewed by u, and how much weight is given to them... and how do you justify it.. I got that. :)
Now I would like to lay my conditions on the above line given by solely me... which is obviously balderdash... :)
1. The lines from OT must be from a true prophet (I'm sorry if someone claimed to be prophet and gave out lines...)
2. The lines must be authentic and should not have got modified or changed or fabricated or fake.
The conditions must be ...the 2nd point only..
1. The lines must be authentic and should not have got modified or changed or fabricated or fake.
 
Caleb
Caleb
@servantofWiser Of of course if you through out most of the OT on the grounds that it doesn't agree with your prophet and only keep the parts that do, then it will agree. But then it wouldn't be the OT.
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
If things are beyond our control, I can't help...I'm sorry :)
And to be frank, I would love to talk about OT later, and first about http://www.teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com/, because I haven't covered much of OT.
 
Caleb
Caleb
@servantofWiser Likewise if you're just going to throw out whatever bits you don't like and claim they are modified, then you are not talking about the OT. Either you're going to agree to use the extant text as a basis for discussion or you're talking about imaginary documents that we can't actually both read and discuss.
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
the thing is I haven't read much of OT & I'm sorry for saying OT lines 99.9 % with Islam, but as I said ryt now I'm not fit to talk about that... :)
about this teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com welcome...
 
Caleb
Caleb
Dude you've given the link. I've seen it. Have you actually read the New Testament? All of it not just the fragments that site quotes?
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
4:18 PM
OOps sorry.... I'm interested in only this teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com Mr dude... :)
religion is not of the disciples. It is of Jesus Christ and the The Father.... :)
Love it ask if Jews agree Jesus(Messiah) is the anticipated savior of theirs?
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
4:50 PM
you mean this page @curiousdannii http://www.teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com/, it is because the next couple of pages filter the NT and give me the words which I'm highly concerned about, the words of jesus and the words of The Father, because religion is not of the disciples. It is of Jesus Christ and The Father.... :)
The very same page which u showed me is enough to prove that.... the people who were so so and so close to Jesus had difficulty understanding the tricky words of his (Mat 16:11-12)... I hope now u get that why I would love to focus on just the words of Jesus only.. :)
 
Caleb
Caleb
5:09 PM
@servantofWiser Then you are not interested in honest debate, all you want to do is promote and agenda. If you wanted to talk about just the things Jesus said we could do that, but we need to work with ALL the things Jesus said, not your carefully curated collection of sayings that you find acceptable.
@servantofWiser You just made that up. Jesus specifically tasked the disciples with telling others what he taught them.
And the disciples know full well it wasn't about them personally, they went out and declared what they knew about Jesus, that he was God and Lord and that all men must believe in him to be saved.
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
5:32 PM
@Caleb yeah, the disciples did their part well. They preached peace. But a little bit more than that.... their inferences of the situations tooo... That is a little bit concerning...
If all they did is just recorded the words of Jesus and reproduced it exactly.... then it would be wonderful and left to the reader to decide to infer things about the situation that would be cool.
Religious Things will never be clear and it is not so easy .... The reader has to work hard strive to find the hidden meaning of those tricky words... "Seek ye shall find"...
the way things are perceived differ... and hence the religions..
 
Caleb
Caleb
5:53 PM
@servantofWiser No they didn't preach peace, they preached a savior who died and was raised and that we could be reconciled to God only throgh him. And they didn't make that up or interpret it, Jesus said that stuff inehis own words many times. And very directly. There was nothing hidden or tricky about it.
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses thei…
 
Caleb
Caleb
@servantofWiser no. That's not why there is "religions".
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
Mat 10:34-39
is that so Mr @Caleb ?
I ask u now Mr @Caleb then why do people fail to recognize this very basic thing . the thing which was emphasized by Jesus in a very simple way(not at all tricky)...
One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Mat 22:35-40
why do people love Jesus more than his father then he himself said love the father beyond all... with full love.... ??????
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
6:20 PM
and this is the main reason why I didn't hesitate to give an obviously balderdash statement that words of Jesus(teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com) comply with Islam... quran.com/3/48-54... 99.9%
 
Caleb
Caleb
@servantofWiser Your question is both a logical fallacy and based on incorrect premises. You presume that people don't recognize that (for the most part that's something Christians do recognize) and you present a false dilemma between two things that are the same.
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
are you a christian @Caleb?
 
Caleb
Caleb
Jesus himself (the same person you were quoting about the need to love the father) said with his own mouth "I and the father are one" and "he who has seen me has seen the father". Loving Jesus is not different or incomparable with loving the Father. In fact NOT loving him would be to NOT love the Father.
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
6:37 PM
OK. Fine. I agree with this completely.
But let me ask you a simple question. If a Christian has to make a decision.. if I ask him,,, whom do you love more, "The father or Jesus"? I'm interested in that answer.
 
Caleb
Caleb
@servantofWiser They are one in the same.
 
 
3 hours later…
curiousdannii
curiousdannii
9:09 PM
@servantofWiser It looks to me like 80% of the gospels are quoted there in full. It's not very "filtered" at all. Why not just read one of the gospels the whole way through and see all those quotes in their full context?
@servantofWiser Also, have you ever read the writings of the prophet Isaiah?
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
don't worry I'll try to manage with the contexts... I don't know what the definition of gospel is, as I already said, I'm focused only on the words of Jesus(pbuh) and the father only... So, this teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com would suffice my need... :)
@curiousdannii well, maybe I'm interested in Prophet Jesus(pbuh) more..... without showing concerns to the prophecies of Jesus' coming to this world. I don't have anything to do with that, cuz I completely agree he is the Messiah ...
 
curiousdannii
curiousdannii
@servantofWiser I thought you were a muslim
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
Oh yep I'm trying my level best to be a muslim... :)
I get that most of things which I'm talking might seem strange to you ... But, these all things are there even in Qur'an... but not NT minus teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com
 
curiousdannii
curiousdannii
@servantofWiser Then if you don't read the prophets you are disrespecting them!
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
first of all I'm in no place fit to approve that he (isiah) is a prophet... So, .............. I'm sorry, we'll talk about him later..
 
curiousdannii
curiousdannii
9:18 PM
@servantofWiser Islam teaches Isaiah is a prophet don't they?
Jesus quoted Isaiah all the time
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
excuse me where?
 
curiousdannii
curiousdannii
Anyway, I guess my concern is that you seem to think that you are able to determine that Jesus only inspired part of the NT. I know that Islam considers the entire NT to be a holy book, not just the direct quotes of Jesus
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
Isaiah
Isaiah (US /aɪˈzeɪ.ə/ or UK /aɪˈzaɪ.ə/; Hebrew: יְשַׁעְיָהוּ, Modern Yeshayahu, Tiberian Yəšạʻyā́hû ; Syriac: ܐܫܥܝܐ Eshaya; Greek: Ἠσαΐας, Ēsaïās; Arabic: إشعيا Ishiya; "Yah is salvation") was a prophet documented by the Biblical Book of Isaiah to have lived around the time of 8th-century BC Kingdom of Judah. The exact relationship between the Book of Isaiah and any such historical Isaiah is complicated. One widespread view sees parts of the first half of the book (chapters 1–39) as originating with the historical prophet, interspersed with prose commentaries written in the time of King Josiah...
follow the link
I'm extremely sorry to disappoint you... But Islam has strict rules that religion is that which is true from either God or messengers, but not extra part(inferences) added by the followers.. So, NT minus teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com is Islam compliant...
@curiousdannii
is Islam compliant
 
curiousdannii
curiousdannii
9:38 PM
@servantofWiser Most Christians believe that the entire Bible is strictly from God and his messengers, not inferences
That is a very basic Christian doctrine
So does Islam teach that parts of the NT are inferences? Does it specify which parts, or is it just your guess?
Do you personally ignore the Hadith just like you're ignoring the rest of the NT?
 
servantofWiser
servantofWiser
10:15 PM
hehehehe...... Hadith are recordings of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) from their disciples. There are seldom inferences in the hadith of the followers, but mostly what count is the words of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) more than the words of the followers..
am I ryt @BleedingFingers...?
 

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