English Language Learners - 2015-03-08 (page 2 of 3)

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2:00 PM

Thanks...then I am not any more with AMD

Umm... actually what I was trying to say was AMD graphics cards aren't bad at all. :-)

Just don't use their CPUs. :P

well I was not planning to use AMD GPU, though.

I see. :-)

I was more interested with there CPU, because they were cheap and there specifications seemed good

When it comes to cheap, Intel is cheaper. G3285 is a good example.

2:02 PM

ohh that AM A4 was built on 32nm process :-)

Yeesss!

in 2010 22nm was already being tested

G3285 seems to be not available in indian online store...let's search a bit more

@snailboat By the way, what made you bring up that subject? Another teach-Japanese website?

@DamkerngT. Intel core i5 consumes 85 watts, whereas AMD a4 take only 65 watt....i thought those advanced ones eats less power.

2:20 PM

@Man_From_India Ah, you have to try it. These Intel CPUs come with their own gears.

When you do nothing much, they will shift themselves to a lower gear automatically, and thus consume much less energy.

85 watts is something like the max.

ahh i see

yes the max is generally written

Oh, I think I misremember the CPU model. It's G3258. I'm sorry!

:-) no problem

let's check

This is neat..i am going for this one...

Yay!

it says dual core...what is the actual difference between core 2 duo and dual core :-)

2:25 PM

By the way, to give you an idea of Intel power consumption. My PC (the one I'm using) is running on Core i7 3770. Its TDP is 77W. Its typical power consumption is 62.56W. But on my typical use (which is mostly browsing, just with 1500 tabs :-), the number of Watts on Wall is only about 40W.

i7 TDP is 77watt :O

@Man_From_India Hmm... I've forgotten about that already. I know they're different, but the difference doesn't matter anymore I think. (The recent 2-core CPUs are basically the same.)

great...yes I have checked...there are power issues with most AMD cpus

@Man_From_India It's a 3rd gen i7.

nothing is more advanced than yours till date :-)

i mean CPU

2:28 PM

I think Intel's announced their 5th gen recently.

(Which made me wonder what happened to AMD!)

evn there performances not as good as Intel...that is what google says

nods

apart from their heavy power consumptions

does ARM has CPUs for desktop?

If you consider tablets desktop, I'd say a lot. :-)

Hello, @tchrist!

Hi.

I'm not happy.

Where are the mods?

2:32 PM

Oh, why?

no i meant desktop PC :-)

I think J.R. was here a few hours ago.

Hi @tchrist

Some idiot has reversed all my edits to fix a bunch of incorrect uses of "differences among" to read the correct "differences between".

On ELL?

2:33 PM

Yes.

:O

I don’t think we should leave ungrammatical titles in questions. It is a bad thing for learners to be given incorrect models, so I routinely edit to correct wrong grammar, especially in titles.

I believe you can flag and mention that to our mod (J.R.).

I did so.

u can leave a msg here also using @

and his name

2:34 PM

I noticed he was around earlier.

But that was like late last night.

Ahh... Now I know which question you're talking about.

There are many.

which one?

These.

Oh, that's handy. Thanks!

2:37 PM

thanks

And it gets worse:

@tchrist Why don't you stop, Mr Prescriptivist. Or should we all edit out our personal pet unapproved usages? — δοῦλος 2 mins ago

I believe you could use a meta post (if you'd like).

So, now we have name-calling.

nods

I believe that is considered a violation of the terms of service, and I have flagged it as inappropriate.

2:39 PM

:O

My only motivation here is to help learners with good models to learn from. I don’t want to argue with anyone.

don't know why the correct use is being edited :O

"2 mins ago" -- That means you can ping him.

I certainly will not ping the idiot.

that is good idea

2:40 PM

I haven't looked through all of the edits, but I agree with all the edits I've seen so far.

well i meant to ping him and discuss the matter there only :-)

I see. I hope J.R. will sort this out soon.

@Man_From_India Probably because he is suffering from a delusion that between is prohibited on sets greater than two.

It is not true today, nor has it ever been true in the past.

7

A: “between” vs. “among”

Prescriptivist Poppycock You should in this instance trust your own ear, not your friend’s opinion that there is a rule that says you are wrong. There isn’t, and you aren’t. Between has never been restricted to two items alone. In the citations below, this non-rule your friend alludes to is var...

But what about this? :O

ell.stackexchange.com/posts/47119/revisions

this is dealing with two :-D

no idea

That one is ungrammatical.

2:44 PM

Mr. δοῦλος is American. What's he doing saying "amongst", anyway? ;)

Just among you and me, the person who undid my good works doesn’t know what him not talking about.

true...but why it's corrected to amongst in the first place? :O

he does write good answers, but I don't know what happened. May be he just made a mistake there.

> OED: In all senses, *between* has been, from its earliest appearance, extended to more than two. In OE. and ME. it was so extended in sense 1, in which *among* is now considered better.
It is still the only word available to express the relation of a thing to many surrounding things severally and individually, among expressing a relation to them collectively and vaguely: we should not say ‘the space lying among the three points,’ or ‘a treaty among three powers,’ or ‘the choice lies among the three candidates in the select list,’ or ‘to insert a needle among the closed petals of a flower.’

2

@Man_From_India He broke all my fixes.

I can only hope that those who know more than me will correct me if I am wrong, for I am certain that those who know less than me will correct me if I am right.

A between vs. among question on ELL made me think hard once.

Here is how my brain works when I hear between and among. Between is about two things. This doesn't mean that there must be only two things in total. When there are more than two things, the between will make me think of each of the relations between all those things as a relation between each pair of them. On the other hand, among is about more than two things, and it makes me think of more complex relationships, where I can't think of the relation between each pair of those things clearly. — Damkerng T. Jun 18 '14 at 9:35

(Just to remind myself.)

So it started about 15 hours ago.

> Fill the blank with the most appropriate ~~among~~ of the options

2:51 PM

This is bizarre. I wonder what bee has gotten into his bonnet.

Yeah.

I think both among and of is possible. But I think it's better to write the most appropriate option (from the followings)

Among doesn’t really work there. It means something else.

true...

And there was one come amongst us who knew the correct answer.

2:53 PM

δοῦλος has indeed written some excellent answers, and he's been a serious, consistent contributor since last September.

we need one from a bunch...

@BenKovitz i do agree

Well, so much for that then.

I fixed all the amongs that struck me as nonnative or hypercorrectionist errors.

He has now undone all that.

Moreover, he has not left a check-in message on his edit. He just does them with no record of justification.

That is not good.

So it’s really just vandalism.

His account got hijacked, perhaps?

Or he’s on crack.

I'm looking at this: ell.stackexchange.com/users/6951/… Bizarre.

It's gotta be drugs.

3:00 PM

It was Saturday night. Some people who are sane during the rest of the week are more apt to drug themselves into madness on Saturday nights.

All those "Rollback to Revision X" messages you see there in his edit log are nearly always a sign of reckless and community-unfriendly behavior.

At least when they are a rapid-fire fusillade of rollbacks with neither comment nor reason. That is the sign of someone bent on some sort of crusade. It is not conducive to a healthy community environment.

He has occasionally done some strange things like this before. For a little while, he was on a kick to delete questions that asked what something meant, since what someone meant is "subjective" and therefore off-topic.

I wonder if your flag was the reason @J.R. came in here a few hours ago.

No, my flag was raised 2 minutes before I came here.

Ahh

However, he does have the Precognitive badge.

So perhaps that was going to have been it. :)

3:05 PM

Hehe!

As much as I like the community authorship of Wikipedia, something wonderful about SE is that we don't have to agree.

@BenKovitz That is quite an interesting datapoint.

Then again, when it comes to edits, I guess we sort of do.

3:16 PM

Ahh... I've just noticed that most edits (or all?) were made to questions. That could make the difference.

I can't remember our policy on editing the OP's questions. I'm not even sure we have one.

Stack Exchange has a networkwide policy on edits.

What's the policy? Do you know the URL for it?

I’ll find it.

ell.stackexchange.com/help/editing

Back when I was still quite active (on answering anything), iirc someone had mentioned that we should leave the OP's question as is. Editing some questions is mostly just guesswork.

> Common reasons for edits include:

To fix grammar and spelling mistakes

3:19 PM

@tchrist Thanks.

I didn’t look much into answers, just questions with incorrect usage.

Yes. I know that. I think lately the quality of English of our members has been improved. Some of our questions were much harder to guess (what the OP was asking about).

@tchrist nods -- I agree with any edits to the questions, once it's done (like the OP's already received a good answer or the OP's accepted an answer).

I also believe that most OPs will feel grateful for any kinds of edits.

I know I do feel that way.

17

Q: What to do when another user reverts my edits?

On May 15 I flagged this post for a moderator because my edits kept being reversed for what I deem a bad reason: apparently my change of "syso" to "System.out.println" was considered an invalid code change. Here's why I believe my edit was perfectly fine: syso is a shortcut for System.out.prin...

discussion edits

35

A: What to do when another user reverts my edits?

You did the right thing by flagging. The post was later fixed to include your changes. The flag was declined for such a wildly wrong reason that I can only assume that it was a mis-click, which is rare, but it does happen. Sorry about the confusion it caused.

It would be counterproductive of me to rollback his rollbacks.

nods

Also, I didn't want to deluge JR with flags, so flagged only the one rollback instance as being indicative of a broader issue, and the one name-calling comment as being out of bounds.

3:25 PM

While a question is still live, I've been torn on cleaning up the grammar. I certainly believe that seeing good models, over and over, is crucial to learning the language. And when I've been learning other languages, I've always been very grateful for anyone who corrects my writing or speech. But while writing an answer, I like having a feel for the questioner's level of mastery.

1 hour later…

4:42 PM

> Her comments echo that heard from Kremlin critics since the killing such as activist Alexei Navalny, who accused "the country's political leadership" of ordering a hit on Nemtsov.
http://ell.stackexchange.com/q/52264/3281

"that heard from Kremlin critics"?

> Basic: Her comments echo what we heard from Kremlin critics since the killing ...
Shorten: Her comments echo that from Kremlin critics since the killing ...
Hmm...: Her comments echo that heard from Kremlin critics since the killing ...

@tchrist Someone rolled back 45 of your edits?!?!?

Egads. The proper way to handle it, I think, would be to hash it out here or in meta first.

@J.R. I found it extreme.

Perhaps he was driven mad by the incipient Flock-Clucking Day that is now upon us. :)

If it was fall, I might agree with you.

As it is, he did all that on a 23-hour day, which makes it all the more mysterious to me.

Clucking flocks have been known to drive farmers mad.

And their cows madder.

But honestly, it all seemed rather mad to me, so I punted it up to other hands.

Had you made three or four corrections he didn't agree with, fine, roll them back, then you guys fight it out. But 45? At least come to a consensus before you undo one person's efforts.

4:56 PM

Shog has something somewhere about assuming good intentions.

And it is not like this fellow actually edited anything that I could see: he simply blindly rolled it all back with neither query, comment, nor complaint.

Yes. I'm flummoxed, but I'll tell you my idea: I'm going to roll back half of them to your edits, and leave half of them as they are now. Then I'm going to open an ELL question about the correct use of "among" vs "between".

Is there not one already?

There probably is, but I don't know if that question will resolve this dispute.

If I think it can, I might put a bounty on it.

I'm thinking that the reason all the non-native speakers use "Among your brother, your sister, and me, we’ll figure out what to do” is because they’re following the myth. I in that position would be looking at the ground between them all. :)

Otherwise, I might open a new one with a unique slant.

4:59 PM

My somewhat underloved and overwritten ELU response about this should have put that all to rest. I would have hoped.

I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that you know of the answer I’m referring to.

7

A: “between” vs. “among”

Prescriptivist Poppycock You should in this instance trust your own ear, not your friend’s opinion that there is a rule that says you are wrong. There isn’t, and you aren’t. Between has never been restricted to two items alone. In the citations below, this non-rule your friend alludes to is var...

:)

I notice you had linked to it earlier, but hadn't gone and read it yet.

But that is in some regards separate from the issue of a user on a 45-edit rollback jihad.

@J.R. It is other than brief. :)

@tchrist - As is much of your best work ;^)

I rather like the OED’s list of prohibited examples:

> [W]e should not say ‘the space lying among the three points,’ or ‘a treaty among three powers,’ or ‘the choice lies among the three candidates in the select list,’ or ‘to insert a needle among the closed petals of a flower.’

Virtually all the amongst I fixed were of that nature.

5:05 PM

Hi guys!

hi guys, may I ask a little question?

You cannot choose among three candidates in a list. You must choose between them.

2

Hi!

Lots of the the amongs I munged were of that sort.

Not sure if I can ask your Q, but go ahead.

5:06 PM

@Ilan Apart from that one? :)

yep

Gimme a minute, Reviewing back at chemistry....

Well, you didn’t need permission to ask the first, so it probably follows that you need none for the second. )

I'll ask, if you can plz answer :)

I should describe some "transportation modes" using synonyms: can I replace "transported by water" to "delivered by ferries and alike"??

First of all, it should be replace something with another thing. Not to.

Buying something cheap from China can be very tricky...

5:13 PM

> Delivered by ferries and the like

@DamkerngT. and secondly?

I was thinking about two or three things more. tchrist already mentioned one.

@tchrist thanks! I understand that in general my substitution is ok

@J.R. :O And then these guys don't believe me when I say that sometimes relationships other than learning and helping are present here.

Your phrase "transported by water" made me think, hard!

5:14 PM

OK, not here, back at ELL.

??

@DamkerngT. I've taken it from this google.com/…

I'm not sure. By might work. I think I'd go with via.

ok

we say "by train"

I've thought "by water is ok too

"We travel by train." That's a common phrase.

Looks like I'm not really familiar with goods transportation. :-)

tough topic

5:19 PM

> One if by land, two if by sea.

hm

Ah, by sea is common (enough that I've heard it). What about by water?

they gave "water"

the topic is UK transportation so only rivers could be used

and seas less

"the Mekong is still an essential means of transportation"

is "means" plural?

No, this means is singular.

Look it up: macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/means

thanks

5:23 PM

Welcome!

5:36 PM

@DamkerngT. how can I understand the diffs between USAGE, USING and USE

First, try your dictionaries. Second, try ELU. (I remember there is a question on that one.)

ok

@DamkerngT. No.

First, try ELU, you SE traitor robot!

:P

Hehe!

Dictionaries should be tried, and, if found guilty, sentenced to long terms.

5:40 PM

Oh, no! Poor them!

hh

I have to admit. I'm gonna give up the idea of buying a $50 product at $17 from China.

Mr Dictionary, the jury has returned and I’m afraid I have good news and bad news for you.
Ok, then give me the good news first; the bad news might kill me.
Ok then: the good news is that you’ve been given a life sentence.
My goodness! Then what in heaven’s name is the bad news?
You’ll be out in two weeks.

@DamkerngT. Why?

Genghis attacking or something?

@MARamezani It's just too complicated.

5:46 PM

Well, not more complicated than English usage. Heh.

@tchrist Isn't the bad news the good news and the good news the bad news!

Depends how you look at it. :)

@DamkerngT. They're in chemical equilibrium.

@MARamezani I was able to find a $43 deal, but still it's not as safe as the $50 one.

What is safe, mind me?

5:49 PM

Anything can happen when you buy stuff from China. It's not the first time I order anything from there.

@MARamezani Try buying a Micro SD Card from China, and you will know how safe it is. ;-)

Oh, trolls.

;)

6:35 PM

If I get to write down all the quotes you guys make from CGEL and OED I'll be able to make whole books outta it. ;)

@MARamezani And Quirk et al. (0:

Hi shooting star!

Good evening, Mendeleyev (0:

Well, this is what comes to a [filthy] Iranian mind!

@MARamezani What's filthy in "shooting star"?

6:43 PM

No, I meant the making a whole book outta quotes thingie.

ah (0:

1

Q: how can I change the imperative into passive form?

I have to turn this imperative sentence into passive form- Be punctual or they will eliminate you. I think the right one is- You are suggested to be punctual or you will be eliminated by them. But the 1st portion of my answer doesn't satisfy the basic rules of voice-change of imperative sente...

There's a problem with this I can't find....

I'd trusted my English senses, rather than "grammarifying" everything....

And I think "be punctual!" just can't be voiced in a passive form.

His version: "You are suggested to be punctual or you will be eliminated by them" - seems okay to me.

From the pragmatic standpoint, that is.

It may be flawed from some grammar standpoint.

If that's the case, but I think you don't "passivify" or "passify" or do something like that to an imperative clause.

maybe..

6:47 PM

...that has an intransitive verb. (be)

7:15 PM

@MARamezani

Hi!

Remember the stupid messages you posted?

Snail vehicle got rid of them.

FYI, I wanna start learning python.

7:35 PM

0

Q: Please proofread this sentence

Our society should care more about job opportunities, housing prices and salaries, and not pay so much attention to the little things like a politician mistakenly making bad comments about foreign brides.

At least the OP's explicit in asking for proofreading. I like honesty.

@MARamezani heh

Good evening, @DamkerngT.!

Good evening!

Good (evening+night)/2 !

It's about 23:00 here.

it's 00:45 here, the last cold day of March has begun

@CopperKettle So you're tricking StayFocused, somehow?

7:46 PM

@MARamezani No, there's 19 minutes left

Do you still need that?

Yes

But luckily I lost the urge to answer question at SE (0:

But the timer stops ticking when I switch to another tab, so I can chat a bit. (0:

I wish I had more time for reading them, not to mention answering them!

(0:

Hmm, I still haven't seen anything shiny after you've left.

(Sth shiny: good Q)

Make that "memorable Q".

8:15 PM

hello @MARamezani

Hello, I guess.

I had had a discussion with Chris on meta.

-2

Q: Top users, please **ask**!

I figured out 22 questions of 30 newest questions are asked by user less than 100 rep and there is gust 2 question asked by 1000> rep user.so, it is embarrassing. The questions are mostly asked by new users with low quality and most of them will be closed by you.I checked the question asked by to...

discussion user-accounts

take a look

@MARamezani

"Dash bashiva."

Why?

@MARamezani

That sorta thing isn't something you should discuss anywhere, let alone metas.

8:21 PM

It is not a reason.

@MARamezani That word "passify" is hilarious!

Oh hi Ben!

I wonder, why isn't it in dictionaries?

@MARamezani I'm going to start using it. It sounds just like "pacify"--which has a subtly related meaning. I'm not sure why, but I keep snickering about this.

Yay!

I'm not sure, but I'd guess that the usual word would be "passivize". Not that such a word would ever get much use.

Yup, I just checked. The standard word is "passivize".

But "passify" is much funnier!

8:24 PM

@BenKovitz "Passivize" reminds me of robot!

i.e.: Damkerng

Yeah, there's something boring about "passivize".

I confess to being baffled by non-native speakers’ collective obsession with passive voice. This is not something that native speakers virtually ever think about.

@MARamezani don't you want at least release my angry feeling.

The pun with "pacify" is soooooo right.

I can only attribute it to poor instruction.

8:25 PM

not angry,sad

@Majid Well, your reasoning isn't good enough.

@tchrist I'm pretty sure their obsession derives entirely from homework assignments and exams.

@tchrist Exactly. Some guy thought he was writing grammar and they fed it to these poor students....:(

@MARamezani he says me , he doesn't want to ask any question at all.

@tchrist ELL gets lots of questions about how to passify sentences that no one would ever have a need to passify.

8:27 PM

Not that I'm not a student. :)

@Majid "tells me".

@BenKovitz But why? I have studied “many” languages, and only one alone ever had any such exercises, and that language was not English. Can you guess which language it was?

@Majid You should start studying grammar and vocab. way more, now that you're a SE user.

@tchrist Latin?

Good guess.

And the right answer.

@tchrist Outta curiosity, which langs?

8:28 PM

:)

@MARamezani What are you talking about

Because Latin has morphological inflections for passive constructions.

English does not.

@Majid Let me read your meta post, one more time.

I never was forced to crank out passive sentences for any of Spanish, French, Portuguese, Catalan, Italian, or German. Only in Latin alone.

And certainly never in English.

NIIICCCCEEE!

8:30 PM

I blame either poor training materials or poor trainers.

Because I cannot otherwise account for it.

I always "favoriticize" multilingualism. OK this is getting overly "coined".

Hey, @tchrist, how'd you like to contribute five example questions here?

No native speaker has ever been quizzed on “What is the passive version of Mary is nice to me?” — never ever.

4

@BenKovitz Oh maybe. I feel like Latin betas have failed before.

@tchrist What do you think about "I'm being niced with Mary?" :)

Or rather, proposals for Latin sites.

8:34 PM

Yeah, it has to be bad teachers and bad teacher-training. I've read a little bit about English teaching in various countries, and it sounds like it's usually a disaster, and the exams are chosen to support the disastrous teaching. One learns to do artificial exercises and answer questions about English grammar, but not to communicate in English.

@BenKovitz That's exactly what's going on in Iran!

@tchrist Yes, an old Latin proposal failed in the commitment stage. I hope this new one can make it. Because I have a lot of questions!!

@MARamezani renice +5 $(ps -U mary | awk '{print $1}')

@tchrist Well, if it was Dane I would've said: So what? Astronomy has failed once but is doing a ~~great~~ job.

@tchrist I know, right? :)

Pretty sure you're checking astronomy's stats....

Welcome @tchrist :-)

8:40 PM

Yay, @tchrist has joined the Latin Language proposal! Now there's no stopping us!

@BenKovitz I don’t know that network rep counts for proposals.

@tchrist I think it's supposed to, but the goodie is when it's higher than 200 or sth like that, not 50k!

@tchrist I mean that your knowledge and energy will make a huge difference.

Hold it there, should this Q be closed?

0

Q: casual and casually

The meanings of "casual" can be found easily, and it has several meanings. Because of this, it's quite difficult for me to make out the meaning of its adverb. For example: "Where do you work?" she asked **casually**. "What did he say about me?" She asked as **casually** as she could. They chatte...

meaning-in-context

I think closing will be too aggressive.

@tchrist Most of the questions so far have been pretty dull--generic stuff that anyone would ask about Latin in general, after learning a few basic facts about it. There's no shortage of specific, interesting questions to ask, though.

8:45 PM

@BenKovitz In fact, I feared to join you guys because my questions were...

...generic.

Just some research gets most of these done.

@MARamezani Sorry to scare you off!

@MARamezani But now you have a question: "What Latin word does 'passify' derive from?"

@BenKovitz Heh. You scared off a crow....

Unlike "passivize", "passify" comes only from Latin roots.

@BenKovitz Hah! How cool is that?!

That would be a wonderful question, because (a) it's bogus, and (b) it has a true answer!

Ack! Speaking of Latin, I need to write a paragraph or two explaining how hexameter works--for a grant proposal--to fund this Python thing I'm writing!

@CoolHandLouis Hi, Louis!

8:49 PM

Hi Cool-handed!

@BenKovitz No supines yet. No Greek connections. No subjunctives.

@tchrist Yeah, clearly word about the proposal hasn't yet penetrated some good circles of people.

@tchrist You're gonna revolt, I guess!

Well, until now.

Hi @F.E.

8:51 PM

user image

Bye guys! Off to sleep! (literally)

@tchrist I'm working with a classics professor on a project right now. I'm going to ask him to tell his students about the site, and spread the word. That should start something going.

@MARamezani ttyl!

@BenKovitz Evangelizing Evangeline?

> This is the forest primeval. The murmuring pines and the hemlocks,
Bearded with moss, and in garments green, indistinct in the twilight,
Stand like Druids of eld, with voices sad and prophetic,
Stand like harpers hoar, with beards that rest on their bosoms.
Loud from its rocky caverns, the deep-voiced neighboring ocean
Speaks, and in accents disconsolate answers the wail of the forest.
This is the forest primeval; but where are the hearts that beneath it
Leaped like the roe, when he hears in the woodland the voice of the huntsman?

@tchrist Someone's gotta do it. :)

It is . . . hard to do in English.

@tchrist Say, when you studied Latin, did you learn vowel quantity?

8:54 PM

Yes.

@tchrist Er, yeah, it's damn near impossible in English! It is truly amazing that anyone was able to accomplish it.

Longfellow was gifted.

Excellent! Did you learn to perform hexameter without shifting the stresses to match the ictus?

There are several problems with the entire idea of doing it in English, of which not the least is that the natural foot in English is iambic.

@BenKovitz I was never part of the χορός. :)

Oh well! I'm only a beginner in Latin, but I've been dabbling with the verse, seeing if I can hear and express the meter.

It appears that not many people do it. This classics professor tells me that it's quite hard to get his students to even try to perform it.

8:59 PM

Graecum est, non potest legi.

8

A: Could somebody translate this into modern English?

TL;DR: A 1990 translation is provided as the last citation at the bottom. You have it easy compared to those many of us who struggled to read that epic song of rage with words beginning thus: μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε πολλὰς δ᾽ ἰφθίμους ψυ...

I asked the professor to belt out a little hexameter, and he moved the stresses to fit the ictus. I think that's how he was taught.

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Transcript for

Mar '158

English Language Learners

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