The Whiteboard

12:14 AM

hi I have a general question about an iphone app

How would I get certain pages from wikipedia/information and display and manipulate them in an iphone app. Would I have to design an API and implement it on my server or perhaps used the wikimedia API and pull within the app. What would be a good starting point for the architecture?

Robert Harvey

@workandcreate Start here: mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page

You should also read this: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6366/…

Simon André Forsberg

12:40 AM

Okay, programmers! I've updated @Duga's filter a bit. There should be less false-negatives and less false-positives now. Let me know if you notice any improvements.

I gotta say, it's really not easy to make a good filter for your site.

Robert Harvey

Duga Duga Duga Uhh!

Let there be drums... NOW!

(obscure Tubes reference)

user41796

1:16 AM

@SimonAndréForsberg We're not trying to be difficult, we promise. :-)

Duga

@GlenH7 I don't believe you!

Simon André Forsberg

@GlenH7 I don't believe you!

and apparently neither does @Duga ;)

user41796

"Sorry" :-)

Simon André Forsberg

would be so much easier if this site was still called "Not Programming Related" ;)

easier for me and @Duga, that is.

user41796

There are some who keep trying to get the site name changed

Simon André Forsberg

1:20 AM

Count me in for that! :)

user15026

@GlenH7 I can kinda see where that might be nice

user15026

But then what do you call it?

user41796

@AshleyNunn That has also been endlessly debated

user15026

@GlenH7 I can imagine

Simon André Forsberg

TTGTB as we say in The 2nd Monitor ("Time to go to bed" as we say elsewhere). Goodnight, Programmers and @Duga!

Duga

1:27 AM

@SimonAndréForsberg Goodnight!

user41796

It even came up again recently on meta. To my knowledge, SE has said "no way" to a site name change.

user41796

@SimonAndréForsberg goodnight

user15026

@GlenH7 I guess that makes sense, but your name is so vague :(

user41796

"I didn't pick it." :-)

user15026

Yeah, I know :)

user41796

1:33 AM

It's ... I dunno. Another name would perhaps be better and would perhaps make it easier to spot the difference from SO. OTOH, I don't think it would stop the help vampires at all. And it wouldn't stop the errant recommendations from other sites.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 I suspect a lot of the things you're claiming less readable/more confusing comes partially from just unfamiliarity - if you had worked in such a style for a while you'd find it at least as readable as your preferred way. This is why I always encourage people to learn new paradigms, I thought Haskell was an underpowered Python until I forced myself to learn it regardless of my initial thoughts looking at it.

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, because at the core, name change or no, there's no concise way (that I have seen yet) to describe how you are not SO's toilet bowl thankyou very much

user41796

Nope, not really. So why go through all of the pain of a site rename if we can't fix the core issue?

user41796

And they already decided everyone got to keep their precious reps from the NPR days, so what's the point? "Oh, you're a 40k user on the new programming site that's been around for 2 weeks? How'd that happen again?"

Jimmy Hoffa

If nothing else, it balances your perspective to experience both sides of the coin on stuff like that

user15026

1:37 AM

@GlenH7 laughs

Simon André Forsberg

10:25 AM

You may get more help at programmers stack exchange programmers.stackexchange.com — Tom Redfern 1 hour ago

Should be migrated to programmers.stackexchange. See: programmers.stackexchange.com/search?q=big-o — Alex 1 hour ago

Duga

12:35 PM

@deceze this question is a very bad fit for Programmers, see meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6483/… Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 1 min ago

durron597

1:43 PM

@RobertHarvey Good luck!

user41796

2:51 PM

#Hacking SE

user41796

0

Q: Should a 404 result reveal the post title?

I ran across some odd behaviour today. When manually entering a StackExchange URL into the address bar1, if you pick a post number that has been deleted then you still see the old post title along with the 404. For example, I entered: http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/34 and the reso...

durron597

3:21 PM

Hey @GlenH7 How long do you think a decent candidate should take on all four parts of my fizzbuzz chained interview question? Link for reference:

Feb 16 at 23:07, by durron597

4. write a function boolean check(String result, int number) that returns true if the given result is correct, and false if it's not. Your program should use the same decision code for both the looping behavior and the checking behavior

user41796

@durron597 I simply time limit that portion to 10 - 15 minutes, depending upon level of the candidate

user41796

For a wet-behind-the-ears-just-outta-college-new-to-interviewing, I might be more forgiving due to the perceived pressures from the interview process

durron597

@GlenH7 Part 4 or parts 1-4

user41796

For a senior candidate? 5 - 10. And if they look weird and don't realize they need a loop for the basic solution then we're done. :-)

user41796

@durron597 All of it

user41796

3:24 PM

Including my questions asking about "what happens when ..."

user41796

For any particular piece, I'll give maybe 5 minutes including my questions where I'll see if they can spot logic errors

durron597

My boss was unhappy that the four parts combined took more than an hour with Monday's candidate

user41796

Wait, wut?

enderland

enderland lurks

user41796

An HOUR?

enderland

3:25 PM

:)

durron597

I know

We're not going to hire the guy

I'm not good at cutting people off I guess ;)

user41796

I mean, I understand feeling pressured and choking up. But ....

user41796

At about the 3 - 5 minute mark, I may start giving hints

user41796

Just to help break things loose for them so they can get started

durron597

this was not a senior person, this candidate was still in undergrad (may 2015 graduation)

user41796

3:26 PM

Someone sitting there and staring at the code doesn't do anyone any good

durron597

It wasn't sitting there and staring

enderland

I suppose I could probably do better than that ;)

durron597

he spent a lot of time with a piece of paper and pen factorizing numbers by hand

user41796

@durron597 I would have cut that off after a few minutes

durron597

"so what happens on 45?" "what happens on 100?"

user41796

3:27 PM

And simply said "I'm not looking for a clever solution"

user41796

I did have one guy try to create patterns based upon range that he was then going to do something with. It fell apart pretty quickly

durron597

hm. any other ways to shorten time? like, i saw him writing code that was obviously wrong but I let him finish before pointing it out

user41796

@durron597 That one I let them string themselves out with

user55340

Allow you to be google... or a good calculator.

user41796

but I'll set a time limit of 3 - 5 minutes that I'm willing to be patient

user55340

3:30 PM

I'm fairly sure you can factor 120 rather quickly (or have that on hand)

user41796

And I'll say "Okay, let's see what you've got at this point."

enderland

Asking questions which imply suggestions can be good too

Something like, "what if you tried to do something like X instead?"

user41796

^^^ Agreed

user55340

Btw... today is ~~saturday~~ wait, its friday, a friday I don't have to work.

durron597

Hm. maybe I shouldn't have let him work in Eclipse, with the idea that I don't really need to see the program compile and run

though he started writing code like this at first

user55340

3:31 PM

Notepad++ would also work... or Atom... the idea being syntax highligting helps write code, but otherwise unnecessary.

user41796

I'm more worried about logic than I am about compiled code & syntax

durron597

public class Problem {
  for(int i = 0; i < 100; i++) {

  }
}

enderland

Whiteboards are good too

Ampt

@durron597 that's... concerning

user55340

They could write it in pseudocode or basic... or perl. The key part is you seeing how they attack the problem.

Robert Harvey

3:32 PM

@enderland Yeah, for UML.

enderland

Even for pseudo code though

Ampt

And for booze

and monadic composition

Robert Harvey

Not for coding. Not if you've ever used a keyboard.

Ampt

wait, what?

durron597

I don't want my interview to be a handwriting test

Mine is crap but that doesn't mean I'm a bad programmer

user55340

3:33 PM

You need magnetic Blocky tiles!

durron597

@MichaelT s/Blocky/Scrabble/ Synchronized on a triple word score

enderland

I think I finally get the s/x/y stuff. lol

user55340

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland Sxyz = xz(yz)

user41796

@durron597 I tend not to care so much about that part

durron597

3:34 PM

@enderland folkstalk.com/2012/01/sed-command-in-unix-examples.html

@GlenH7 Yeah but I can type pseudo code (or real code) way faster and clearer than I can handwrite it.

enderland

@durron597 it works like that in Vim too

@durron597 the point isn't to actually produce code necessarily but to talk through the "can you code/think that way" process which a whiteboard helps with

user41796

@durron597 Just sharing my perspective. There are many equally valid paths.

durron597

@enderland Sed was first developed in 1973. VIM was first developed in 1991

user41796

vi was written in '76

durron597

Only @GlenH7 was already a l33t hacker in 1973

user55340

3:37 PM

ed is the one true editor.

user41796

@durron597 Nope, sorry

user41796

Definitely wasn't l33t at that point

durron597

@GlenH7 You were 57 years old. You weren't l33t by 57?

user41796

Nah, I had to get into my 70's before that really happened

durron597

@GlenH7 Ah.

enderland

3:39 PM

wait what

durron597

GlenH7, Midwest, US

26k 9 58 123

licensing design c# java architecture gpl c++

enderland

how old is @GlenH7 lol

user41796

Beat me to it

enderland

har har har

Midwest US is where it's at though

user41796

Yep

user41796

3:40 PM

The key to longevity....

durron597

@enderland It's pretty close to Eastern, US and the rocky mountains right?

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 chokes

midwest is a name, not a description

something that confuses every child in Colorado after they learn the placement of their state in the nation

enderland

Everyone has different perspectives on what the "midwest" is, too

durron597

@JimmyHoffa You'll be a lot better off when you realize that 90% of what I say is a joke

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland eh, I would say there's 2 concentric perspectives. Some call it the area everyone agrees is the midwest, some call the states surrounding that as well the midwest

user55340

3:47 PM

Jimmy Hoffa

nebraska ??? Eff that.

Telastyn

if it won't be flooded in 50 years, it's the midwest.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn I am not in the midwest!

Telastyn

:D

AMaan Rizwan

Hello everyone!

user41796

3:48 PM

@durron597 That percentage seems low, you must be joking again. :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

Hi Doctor Nick!

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Where would you categorize NE then?

AMaan Rizwan

Why my perfectly compiled program doesn't work on other machine? #JAVA-EE

Ampt

Perfectly compiled - LOL

if you think your program is perfect, I've got a bridge to sell you

user55340

"doesn't work" is rather vague.

Jimmy Hoffa

3:50 PM

@GlenH7 That whole left vertical line of states is not midwest - the culture is totally different, those are the middle of the country - I mean really, you're going to say a bunch of impoverished hair spray drinking tribal law abiding independent nations are the same culture as Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin?

AMaan Rizwan

I mean, it was compiling fine and was working as well but then I shifted to another computer. Nightmare starts there, not compiling itself without any error. Maybe computer problem.

user55340

What other machine? typically Java EE works within application servers. Does it work within JBoss and Tomcat and Jetty on your machine?

Telastyn

your question? your main has no body.

Jimmy Hoffa

and Nebraska/KS are...similarish to midwest, but still... I'll give you missouri, indiana, iowa

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Michigan isn't even the same WITHIN the state. Grand Rapids is very different from Detroit is very different from Mackinaw

user55340

3:51 PM

You likely have some local configuration in the machine - libs provided by one app server not another, or a different version of the app server, or a different app server...

Jimmy Hoffa

seriously, who considers the dakotas a part of the midwest?

Telastyn

new yorkers.

durron597

@Telastyn s/york/yawk/

Jimmy Hoffa

haha yeah as if anybody outside of NY gives a shit what they think

AMaan Rizwan

Now on the other machine

public static void main(String args[])

Not able to compile and it is showing ; expected at the end of public static statement.

Ampt

3:53 PM

@JimmyHoffa s/outside of NY/anywhere/

durron597

@JimmyHoffa No one INSIDE New York gives a shit what New Yorkers think

user55340

main() typically isn't part of a Java EE program.

durron597

@Ampt ding ding ding

Ampt

am I a 1337 vi hacker now?

Jimmy Hoffa

I've luckily never been inside of new york so I can't vouch for what people think inside of it

Ampt

3:54 PM

@JimmyHoffa I would imagine there's a lot of places outside of NY that you haven't been to as well but that doesn't stop you from discerning what they think!

user55340

Are you working with the same version of Java? Are you working within an IDE? If so, have you set up the IDE correctly? Can you write hello world in that IDE?

Ampt

Check and mate

durron597

@Ampt He's been to Midwest, US though

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 I have! I was raised right west of the middle, U S A!

AMaan Rizwan

Yes, everything is fine. My question is migrated to Stackoverflow from programming.stackexchange. Oops

Ampt

3:55 PM

So somewhere just left of the S?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt just a few pixels

user55340

Its an IDE / tooling problem - not a design problem.

AMaan Rizwan

Thanks MichealIT. My question got several down votes but got the right answer eventually.

I guess stackoverall and stackexchange is not for minor doubts. Thanks again!

enderland

@AMaanRizwan ?

Ampt

@RobertHarvey ignore @MichaelT. Go work at valve and give me the half life 3

Please

I promise I'll split whatever we make 50/50

AMaan Rizwan

4:01 PM

@enderland - Sorry to bother you, but does our reputation go down if question gets down voted?. Let me know if you get time. :)

Ampt

@AMaanRizwan yes it does

enderland

389

A: How does "Reputation" work?

What does Reputation do? As a registered user, your reputation on the site is a part of your identity on the site. It reflects, to an extent, your familiarity with the site, the amount of subject matter expertise you have and the level of respect your peers have for you. It can generally only be...

user55340

though it can't go below 1.

Ampt

@AMaanRizwan the reason you were downvoted is because it appears you put very little effort into solving this question yourself

AMaan Rizwan

One more question - How can I close my question if I got the answer. I green ticked one answer as well. Is it closed now?

Ampt

4:02 PM

people feel resented when they feel that you don't take their time seriously

@AMaanRizwan yes, just choose the answer as correct and let it go

user55340

I will point out that the quesiton you asked here, in chat, doesn't match the actual problem you had - it wasn't working perfectly on one computer. Or, if it was, you miscopied it when moving between machines

AMaan Rizwan

Oh, I will keep that in mind for future questions. Thanks for your time. :)

Ampt

yeah, that program would fail in any java environment

unless some previous standard allows the skipping of ;

user55340

@AMaanRizwan I would strongly recommend using (and learning) an IDE (eclipse, netbeans) so that it can help spot these errors before you have to ask about them.

Robert Harvey

Note to self: new users don't know how the basic SE mechanisms like closing and accepting work. Some don't even know about comments, or that little red box at the top that tells you someone responded to your post.

enderland

4:05 PM

@RobertHarvey lots of longer term users too, frankly

SE is no where near as obvious in how to use its features as it is to us "we spent way too long here" folks

user55340

@RobertHarvey How often do you see 10k users using ` to format code blocks?

durron597

@Ampt Just do this: eurogamer.net/articles/…

Ampt

@enderland I like to think I spend just enough time to lose my mind

durron597

@Ampt ... inside of a blue sock

user55340

(side bit - SO 10kish link stackoverflow.com/questions/28632957 - note the (now deleted) answer... VBS and sed for a question tagged java?!)

Robert Harvey

4:09 PM

loopwheels.com

user55340

Americans Try Midwest Food For The First Time

►

user41796

Oh, did we ever come up with the correct name for the states that are in the midwest but @JimmyHoffa says aren't in the midwest?

user55340

"flyover"?

durron597

@MichaelT Note to self. If I want to get lots of upvotes, don't post enough information to really understand what's going on, just put lots of screenshots of Oracle Mission Control

2

A: What causes this performance drop?

Your hypothesis is correct, it is a thread synchronization issue. From the API Documentation for EventHandlerGroup<T>.then (Emphasis mine) Set up batch handlers to consume events from the ring buffer. These handlers will only process events after every EventProcessor in this group has proces...

user55340

(1:49 is the wisconsin beer cheese soup)

Robert Harvey

4:14 PM

@MichaelT "It looks like it should already be in my stomach..." LOL

user41796

@MichaelT Soooo good.

Ampt

dude, thats one of the tenants of SE: he who appears to put the most effort into his answer receives the most upvotes, unless such an answer which is both witty and short enters the fray, in which he who understands the question, but is too lazy to read the long answer, will upvote the shorter answer

Simon André Forsberg

in Duga's Playground, 1 hour ago, by Duga

Your question is not on-topic for stack overflow, stack overflow is meant for programming issue, like code that gives you a headache. programmers.stackexchange.com is the place to ask question about software engineering advice and conceptual designs. — rckoenes 32 secs ago

(assisting @Duga)

Ampt

honestly that's not wrong

well... it's borderline in my opinion

he's not blatantly telling him to post here

just what we're about

durron597

> Whilst the Torah clearly tells you not to add or subtract, it does tell you to be fruitful and multiply

13

Q: What does Judaism think of math?

Is it permissible according to halacha to do math? If so, are all kinds of math OK? This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.

purim-torah-in-jest

haha

user55340

4:17 PM

Ahh! Its purim again!

durron597

@MichaelT Not until March 4

user55340

(they've had some SE things in the past about Purim... since they can't get it coded in, the mods there close all the Purim questions each year at the appropriate time)

user55340

23

Q: Purim Torah policy - Allowed, but regulated

Generally, we expect all questions here to be written from the point-of-view of genuine curiosity, and we expect all answers to be genuine attempts to provide real information and analysis that directly addresses the question. However, the community has indicated that, if regulated carefully, Pu...

support faq featured policy purim-torah-policy

durron597

@MichaelT Ah, so it's pre-purim

user41796

@SimonAndréForsberg Duga still isn't firing on all cylinders? :-(

Ampt

4:23 PM

@GlenH7 you think that sound have been posted?

user41796

@Ampt should? Yes

user41796

It's a direct reference to the site and implied that they should re-ask here

user41796

I'd rather see those (and ignore if necessary) than not see them.

Ampt

hmm... that's fair I suppose

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT This is why I don't belong to an organized religion.

Good Lord... And I say that in all earnestness.

durron597

4:26 PM

20

A: Are Animal Crackers depicting non-kosher animals non-kosher?

Not because of its shape. The laws of kashrus are concerned (in the case of cookies) with the ingredients and processing of the food. The shape is [literally] immaterial to this set of concerns and therefore does not affect the status of the cookie as edible according to Jewish law or not. Also...

Robert Harvey

Oh, this just gets better.

Simon André Forsberg

@GlenH7 it feels like whenever I fix one thing, I get two new edge cases!

user55340

Hunted for it briefly, but couldn't find it. MiYoda was hoping for some automated locking/unlocking based on time (lunar calendar) of Purim questions at one time.

Robert Harvey

@SimonAndréForsberg Kinda like religion.

durron597

@RobertHarvey That one wasn't even a joke

Robert Harvey

4:26 PM

That's why it's funny.

Simon André Forsberg

@RobertHarvey Comparing improving software with religion? Hmm... How? What? Umm...

user55340

Judaic law is... complex. You think parsing C++ is hard... they've got thousands of years of edge cases documented that one should refer to.

durron597

Speaking of Animal Crackers, I once ate an elephant under strict rabbinical supervision. Why those Rabbis were in my house that night, I'll never know! — YDK May 9 '11 at 2:17

Robert Harvey

"I'll be here all week."

user55340

@RobertHarvey and sometimes, it does make its way into programming business logic (B&H doesn't allow web transactions for license keys on the sabbath)

user55340

4:29 PM

3

Q: What are the restrictions on electronic commerce during the sabbath?

On Photo.SE, mention was made of some software that had its software license fulfillment (one would think a completely automatic process) being restricted on Saturday: Someone at B&H ... has to press a button or something to make sure that you can't get it on Sabbath or a no-work-allowed hol...

halacha shabbat internet transactions commerce

@RobertHarvey I like that. That is a nice way of showing respect to Orthodox Jewish believers.

Robert Harvey

@SimonAndréForsberg At least they don't have to overhaul the technology to make it work. There's at least one manufacturer that has designed a "kosher" elevator. I think it uses a mechanical system of hoists and pulleys.

Telastyn

is there a "law" about how people need to comment on design documents regardless of their quality? seems like a tangent of bikeshedding

Robert Harvey

@Telastyn [context required]

user55340

4:43 PM

Theater mixes up 'Fifty Shades of Grey' and 'SpongeBob' usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/02/19/…

user55340

> MetroLux 14 theater in Loveland, Colo., accidentally showed the beginning of the R-rated film Fifty Shades of Grey to an audience of parents and children awaiting The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water on Monday morning.

Joe Jaramillo of Johnstown, Colo., took his granddaughter to the 11:45 a.m. showing of the SpongeBob movie and said that while only the very beginning of the R-rated film was shown in the mix-up, "it was the parents' reaction to it that was so funny."

"Some were moving pretty fast to get the kids out of the theater," Jaramillo said. "The family sitting behind me said …

Robert Harvey

Oh, dear. Civilization unravels again.

That's got to be quite a shock, though.

enderland

The real question is which is worse for children

Robert Harvey

You mean seeing the beginning of the film, or being hoisted away like there's a fire in the theater?

Oh, you mean SpongeBob. Definitely SpongeBob.

They'll be scarred for life, never able to look at a sponge in the same way again.

Telastyn

so pretty much every design doc I've written (that was actually read) has caused hours of discussion as people comment on (often trivial) parts of it.

I'm wondering if there is a pithy quote to describe this sort of thing.

user55340

4:47 PM

@Telastyn you should use comic sans.

Robert Harvey

@Telastyn Your ego?

Telastyn

pssh, it's not just my docs - though they're the ones I'm most familiar with

Robert Harvey

Is it really trivial stuff? There should be a review rule that if nobody can come up with anything substantial in the first 10 minutes, the meeting is adjourned and the review is immediately marked as completed.

durron597

Parkinson's law of triviality

Parkinson's law of triviality, also known as bikeshedding, bike-shed effect, or the bicycle-shed example, is C. Northcote Parkinson's 1957 argument that organizations give disproportionate weight to trivial issues. Parkinson observed and illustrated that a committee whose job is to approve plans for a nuclear power plant spent the majority of its time with pointless discussions on relatively trivial and unimportant but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what materials to use for the staff bike-shed, while neglecting the less-trivial proposed design of the nuclear power plant itself, which is far more...

Robert Harvey

Bikeshed score: 9. Meeting adjourned. Thanks, everyone. Coffee's on the table, if anyone wants some.

Thomas Owens

4:50 PM

0

Q: Which other UML diagrams can I use instead of a state transition diagram in a Systems Requirements Specification?

I'm currently writing a System Requirements Specification (SRS) but I'm stuck with the system features. I was wondering if I could use for example activity diagrams to describe the different modes.

uml srs

Robert Harvey

@ThomasOwens Nothing to see there.

durron597

@Telastyn I'm sure you can find some pithy comments here: chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=bikeshed&room=21

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey My comment is there.

Robert Harvey

@ThomasOwens Hey... What happened to my pithy, highly-informative comment?

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey I was there.

Robert Harvey

4:52 PM

@ThomasOwens It's a non-question. Time to wield teh cloze hammar.

Thomas Owens

It's almost a question. "How do I visually model {some aspect of requirements} in an SRS?" is a perfectly legitimate question. Maybe he can get there?

Robert Harvey

If he bothers to clarify his question.

Thomas Owens

I'm going to give him until I finish my lunch.

Then I'll close and leave a comment.

Robert Harvey

Pfft. Pansy.

It's a drive-by question. (seen 33 minutes ago). He probably thinks this is a forum.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Per yesterday's conversation, "significantly more information" = unsalvageable.

23 hours ago, by Robert Harvey

I'd call that unsalvageable.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:09 PM

We're doing "Scrum" with: No product owner, no backlog, no standups, no team collaboration, no scrumboard. But it's SCRUM! Haha the way people stretch definitions just to lie to themselves is hilarious

oh and no planning or retrospective meetings.

Telastyn

I think I worked there.

Duga

A generic "best practice" question like this might be better suited to programmers.stackexchange.com (but do read their Help Center and improve it before asking there). — jonrsharpe 1 min ago

Thomas Owens

I'm almost done with my new SRS template.

The template is 8 pages (including the company mandated cover page, approval page, revision log page, table of contents, and instructional/informative text). It's about 6 without the informative text, so two pages of headers to be filled out.

I am really verbose in my instructional text.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa It's SCRUM! It rolls down stairs, rolls over in pairs, rolls over your neighbor's dog!

Isaac Moses

@MichaelT I don't think we ever sought an automatic mechanism. The Purim Torah policy has always been implemented through communal adherence to the rules plus a pile of mod-closures at the end of the season.

@RobertHarvey AIUI, the prevailing design for a "Shabbat elevator" is driven by electric motors, like a conventional elevator, but has some modifications to remove passengers' active participation in its operation. Lots of detail. ... Summary that's good enough to give you the gist.

@MichaelT Canonical comparison: joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000053.html

user55340

5:31 PM

@IsaacMoses I'm sure I saw something at one point for an automatic process, but then again, memory can play tricks easily.

user41796

5:49 PM

@IsaacMoses I saw in the video that pressing a button is prohibited because it creates work from the electrical spark. Would a voice command fall under the same restriction?

Isaac Moses

8

Q: Voice-activated electronics on Shabbat

Does using a voice-activated device constitute a melacha? For example, Siri on an iphone or, a even a voice-activated light-switch. Does it make a difference if the computer doesn't take direct commands but instead understands what you want when you say "it's dark in here" (like a shabbat-goy)?

shabbat technology

user41796

< I think I just sniped myself />

user41796

@IsaacMoses ty

user41796

Clearly I'm not the first to think of it.... :-)

Isaac Moses

@GlenH7 np. Unfortunately, the answers there to date aren't super-high-quality. Bottom line is "yes."

user41796

5:53 PM

Yeah, I'm sniped. :-) Because now I'm thinking of a timer that only enables voice commands on Shabbat so it can slide in under the "do something different" exception. All other times fall under a different mode of operation...

Robert Harvey

Four cores running at 4Ghz, 16 gigs of RAM, solid state drive, state-of-the-art motherboard, and it still takes 15 seconds to empty the recycle bin in Windows 8.

user41796

sniping reference explained

Isaac Moses

@GlenH7 There's an institute in Israel dedicated to coming up with inventions like that.

user41796

That's awesome. I really like the "Here's a defined set of restrictions. Find a way to enable things while honoring those restrictions."

user41796

Since I'm sniped - is there shortcut glossary to define the key terms I need to be aware of? (And also don't make a fool of myself if I ask a question)

Isaac Moses

5:59 PM

@GlenH7 Related

user41796

Off reading now....

Isaac Moses

@GlenH7 Mi Yodeya has a glossary in ongoing development, but it's far from comprehensive. You will not make a fool of yourself by asking a question. We get (and welcome) plenty of questions from the POV of little prior knowledge of Judaism. E.g.

user41796

That last one made me laugh

Isaac Moses

... in fact, if you post a question in terms that come natural to you, it's valuable, since other people who think of the same question in those terms will be more likely to find the content via Google.

@GlenH7 I cribbed it from above.

user41796

If I do, I won't try for a clickbait title on my first question. I'll give myself a few questions before working up to that level. :-)

Isaac Moses

6:06 PM

@GlenH7 Didn't stop this guy :)

user41796

I'd like to pretend I'm a bit more respectful than that. Definitely not wise enough to come up with one that could be answered that well.

Isaac Moses

@GlenH7 It can be very difficult to tell a priori, whether a simple-looking question is going to get awesome answers.

user41796

Yes. Very much true across all the sites.

Isaac Moses

@GlenH7 Incidentally, if you post a question soon, don't be surprised if it takes a while before it gets sufficient attention from the Mi Yodeya community. Jewish Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday, so most MY users in Israel and Europe are already AFK, and those in the US are going to be in a few hours.

Duga

@rckoenes Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 1 min ago

durron597

7:23 PM

@GlenH7 my Orthodox friends have timers that turn the lights off friday night and on saturday morning. The timer does "light a fire" but because it was not programmed during Shabbat, it is ok

Isaac Moses

@durron597 The main concern is what a Jewish person does on the Sabbath. There are rules related to what a person's stuff does then, but their point is to reinforce the rules that govern the person's behavior.

durron597

@IsaacMoses My dad told me that Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn get taxi rides for free from non-jewish cab drivers to shul on the sabbath all the time. I could never figure out if he was yanking my chain

Isaac Moses

@durron597 I suspect that either the was yanking your chain or he was watching them ride cabs to shul right before the sabbath

durron597

@IsaacMoses That's what I figured. But I wasn't sure

It's not against halakha to ride in someone else's car, though? As long as you don't pay them to do it. And the driver is not Jewish.

gnat

folks, could this question be improved sufficiently to reopen? Originally, it certainly looked too broad to me, but asker edited it to the point that I had to retract my votes down and close...

Ampt

7:37 PM

wait, you can't even turn a light on the Sabbath?

durron597

@Ampt Not if you're Orthodox. I'm a heathen Reform Jew though ;)

Isaac Moses

@durron597 There are significant issues, including switching light switches by opening/closing the doors. The practice is to avoid doing so except in case of duress, and then, to be careful not to do certain things, including opening and closing the doors.

18

Q: Why can't electricity be manipulated on Shabbat?

Why can't we use and change electricity on Shabbat and YomTov? By this I mean why can't we turn on and off lights...? I'v heard Rabbis say that its because you can't complete a circuit on Shabbat, and that's what you'd be doing by turning the light on and off..., another time I heard electrici...

shabbat halacha-theory melacha-creative-work electricity

Jimmy Hoffa

@IsaacMoses nonsense, there's electricity in your brain, you gonna stop thinking?

(sorry for the snark, making jokes of religious practices is really never a good idea)

Telastyn

meh. things like this are a helpful reminder why I hate religion.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa I am catholic and I eat steak on fridays during lent, I'm mocking my own religion.

user114359

7:43 PM

so, meh

Isaac Moses

@JimmyHoffa How and why using electric devices is prohibited is complicated (see link above) and the subject of disagreement. Suffice it to say that it's not dependent simply on the transmission of electrons from one molecule to another.

Jimmy Hoffa

I know, I was just making light of something that's a touch silly.

Ampt

silly to you Mr. Hoffa

Isaac Moses

@JimmyHoffa Happy Purim Season

Jimmy Hoffa

Considering the industry of devices that allow people to utilize electricity without breaking the Shabbat, I suspect many participants in such a practice have to laugh a little inside when they buy those things

Isaac Moses

7:48 PM

17

Q: Why are Shabbat loopholes a good thing?

I'm not Jewish but do know that strict observance of religious laws is important in Judaism. I recently visited one of our suppliers in Israel and the hotel and office block had sabbath elevators. The younger techies I was working with thought it was ridiculous but it seemed that pious/observan...

shabbat halacha-theory

Thomas Owens

I wish Word could automatically number paragraphs.

enderland

latex ftw

Thomas Owens

I don't see how latex can help me get a DOCX file...

At least in any reasonable amount of time.

enderland

it can't

:(

I mean... there are hacks

none of which I've foudn to work well yet

Thomas Owens

It's really useful, I think, if you need to identify things that are on multiple lines.

user20683

7:57 PM

Isn't a DOCX file basically made of XML? Have you tried Regex? :P

Thomas Owens

I think it's a ZIP of XML files (and other things).

user114359

Using a regex on DOCX would work about the same as a regex on a complete strand of human DNA.

user20683

guides.lib.umich.edu/content.php?pid=245394&sid=2027738

user20683

@Snowman I am well aware :)

Thomas Owens

@WorldEngineer That's chaos in the TOC.

user20683

8:01 PM

that Automata class I took was at least good for that much

Thomas Owens

Especially since not every section has the same number of children. Some text is under a first level heading, others under a 4th level. So I can't say "only put text at level X into the TOC".

user20683

@ThomasOwens I think Hanselman did some tutorial on the use of style to do numbering and so with a table of contents

user20683

I remember watching the thing

Thomas Owens

Well, I know that it's not obvious.

And that's a problem.

user114359

@WorldEngineer the real joke is that human DNA is easier to understand than DOCX

user114359

8:03 PM

and I am not even a biologist

Isaac Moses

@JimmyHoffa Firmer ground for making fun of stuff is available for people who know something about that stuff. Absent that, you get lines like "So much for global warming! It was a record low last night! Also, why can't those scientists who think they know what happened to the climate for the past million years tell me the right number of inches of snow I'll get tomorrow?"

user20683

@IsaacMoses Is it permissible to clean the snow off one's roof so that it does not collapse even on Sabbath?

Isaac Moses

@WorldEngineer Looks likely: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4864/…

user20683

@IsaacMoses huh

EwokNightmares

if I destroy a pointer that points to a static variable in another source module, will that variable be able to be deleted?

user41796

8:15 PM

@EwokNightmares Will the target memory be freed? No. Because all you did was free the pointer to that target memory

user20683

9

Q: C++ freeing static variables

I would like my class to have a static pointer to a dynamically allocated region of memory. I understand how to initialize it - in my case I will initialize it when the first object needs it. However, I don't know when/where in the code to free it. I'd like to free it when the program terminat...

c++ memory static free destructor

user114359

8:35 PM

Needs four more votes: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/273899/…

Thomas Owens

The new Visio sucks.

@Snowman I think not.

I just want to make a functional block diagram.

That's it.

user114359

@ThomasOwens technically your vote counts as five ;-)

Thomas Owens

Boxes with text and arrows with text between the boxes with text. Is that really so much to ask?

user41796

@ThomasOwens I hate it too.

Thomas Owens

So, what can I use to make my block diagrams?

Dia isn't that helpful for this either.

user41796

8:50 PM

I suck it up and deal with visio

Telastyn

thankfully I still have 2010 everywhere

Thomas Owens

Eww. I can't figure out how to make it work.

I bet Rhaospdy would be better.

gnat

I'm not sure this is worth dignifying with a response, but you've got your analogy backwards. Close voting is like being asked to leave a formal dinner party because you showed up in sandals and a Hawaiian shirt, carrying a sixpack of Michelob and a boom box blaring Iron Maiden. — Josh Caswell 18 mins ago

off-site resource recommendations are explicitly off-topic per help center. See meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6483/… — gnat 25 mins ago

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