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4:00 PM
Threads look very nice on an uniprocessor machine.
 
@CodesInChaos well, it IS multithreading. it just hides the complexity, which could be worse.
 
@Flyk Someone needs to make that a thing.
 
@ThomasPornin mmm, memory barriers
 
The widespread (ab)use of threads is the main reason why modern servers have 4 or 8 cores, instead of 200.
 
@AviD I haven't run into any specific issues with async/await in my apps. Use it with discretion, but that applies to any multi-threading model, of course.
 
4:00 PM
@ThomasPornin yeah, but programmers dont care about hardware!
it's a software problem!
 
@AviD If you use tasks for IO, all user code can run on a single thread.
 
@TerryChia ... in javascript
 
@AviD That's implied.
 
So it's tempting to think that you get the benefits of async IO without the complexity of multi threading.
 
@CodesInChaos except that is not ensured.
 
4:02 PM
@AviD hm?
 
@CodesInChaos you cannot be sure you will be on the same thread when you continue
 
@Flyk unbreakable simply because no one know what the fuck is going on
 
@AviD So, I guess that is the one class of problems I've seen...Devs overusing it, or thinking that because it's easy to spin up an Async task they don't have to be careful about the amount of work they're doing in an async function, and killing the app by say, touching all the files in a system because it's easier than figuring out which specific files need updating. So it does make it slightly easier to abuse background threads.
 
@AviD If you use the right synchronization context you can be sure. I think the contexts WinForms and WPF use on their UI threads work like this.
 
@Xander Redis workers ALL THE THINGS!
 
4:03 PM
@TerryChia webscale.
 
@CodesInChaos again, comes back to "managing carefully"
and if you are doing that, you dont need to worry about being on the same thread.
@CodesInChaos yeah, that is a special case.
@Xander oh sure. thanks.
 
I think you need to just drop what you're doing and use jQuery
 
though you dont always have a choice - if you are consuming an async API, you're pretty much stuck dealing with async one way or another
 
@Flyk jQuery is so 2000. You need to be using IO.JS, React.JS, MongoDB and Redis now.
 
you know when a product has a 1100 page manual, there's something not right
 
4:05 PM
even if you try to contain it to point of use.
 
@AviD It's one of the biggest benefits of async-await. You can do async IO, but keep access to your data to a single thread.
 
@TerryChia shrug
@RоryMcCune could just be a really complicated product
 
@CodesInChaos oh wait, I just got what you're saying. I'm pretty sure the async wont be running in the UI thread, but in a separate one.
by default
 
@Flyk sure but I don't think that it's likely something with a manual that long will ever be well implemented. too complex
 
@Flyk which would be not right, in itself
 
4:08 PM
@RоryMcCune it could be a manual for an overall solution built out of multiple products
 
anyone have a good article on why crypto should be open source?
 
@Flyk could be could be in fact it's Oracle iStore
 
doesn't have to be a single super complex application
 
@Ohnana you don't need an article, you just need a picture of @ThomasPornin with the caption "the bear said so"
 
I'm sure a technical Windows manual would be longer than 1100 pages if you documented every service and library
 
4:09 PM
@AviD if you call await on the UI thread, you'll be back on the UI thread once the await completes, unless you use await task.ConfigureAwait(false);
 
@RоryMcCune I would get a t shirt of that.
 
In cryptography, Kerckhoffs's principle (also called Kerckhoffs's desiderata, Kerckhoffs's assumption, axiom, or law) was stated by Auguste Kerckhoffs in the 19th century: A cryptosystem should be secure even if everything about the system, except the key, is public knowledge. Kerckhoffs's principle was reformulated (or perhaps independently formulated) by Claude Shannon as "the enemy knows the system", i.e., "one ought to design systems under the assumption that the enemy will immediately gain full familiarity with them". In that form, it is called Shannon's maxim. In contrast to "security through...
 
and I'm pretty sure the Gentoo stage 1 install guide was around that
 
@AviD YAS. Thank you so much
 
@CodesInChaos right, exactly. But when the task is running, it is running on a different thread.
 
4:12 PM
I'm going to abuse a business opportunity and completely take over the market for @ThomasPornin tshirts
taking orders now
 
@Flyk hahahahahaha shuddup and take my money
 
€10 per shirt
 
kickstarter it
@Flyk how much in money?
 
euros is money
 
raz
@AviD That is awesome
 
4:12 PM
@AviD 10000 Greek Drachma
 
40 billion yen
 
@AviD ~11 USD
 
@AviD Most of the async tasks I need are IO, so they don't run much user code on a different thread.
 
@Flyk money, cmon, dollas, money do you speak it
say euro again, I dare you
 
@AviD I do speak it, my finances are done in euro
SAY WHAT AGAIN
 
raz
4:13 PM
@AviD euro
 
I DARE YOU, I DOUBLE DARE YOU
 
raz
@Flyk ahahaha
 
@raz is that new for you?
 
hmm, 1 euro is 0.7 sterling
 
raz
@AviD Yeah I lived a sheltered life in my infosec career.
 
4:14 PM
@CodesInChaos ah okay I see what you're saying
 
and 1 sterling is 1.5 USD
currency conversions are confusing to me
 
do they still call it "sterling"?
well, other than Archer of course.
 
raz
@Flyk Euro's no country I ever heard of?!
 
I thought it was just "pounds" now.
 
USD < Sterling > Euro ??
 
4:15 PM
my first tshrit is going to be a play on "Only you can save mankind" by Terry Pratchet
 
@AviD "British Pound sterling"
 
my second shirt is going to say "Roll your own? <bear roaring> Just... no."
 
@Ohnana yes
 
I use pounds for weight so sterling is the currency to prevent confusing people
 
@AviD pounds sterling to differentiate between other people's pounds
 
4:15 PM
@Ohnana heh excellent
 
I purchase my weed in pounds
 
raz
@Flyk Joint made of 0's and 1's?
 
@RоryMcCune though I use kilo almost exclusively
 
@Ohnana by the numbers you gave, 1 EUR ~= 1.05 USD... assuming I can arithmetic.
 
@raz oooOOoooo
 
4:16 PM
@AviD Tons should be more appropriate for yo momma.
 
@Tinned_Tuna sounds about right
 
raz
@Flyk With a bear smokin' it?
 
@TerryChia tonnes, if anything.
 
raz
ahahahaha
 
you Imperialistic scum.
 
4:16 PM
@Tinned_Tuna 1.14
 
@raz would you like to be hired as a tshirt designer?
I shall pay you €27000 a year
also you will be a games developer, sleeve art designer, and janitor
 
raz
@Flyk Ok... but I don't do Windows
 
@Flyk wait wait, @Simon has a monopoly on janitorial duties.
 
Sleeve art? Sounds like a tattoo artist.
 
@raz that's cool, we are after android
 
raz
4:18 PM
@Flyk Fantastic I already develop Android apps
 
@AviD doesn't meet the minimum requirements to be employed by me
IQ must be greater than or equal to 130
Simon's is .37
 
@Flyk as a janitor?
I think you mean 70.
 
@AviD yes
no
I require my janitor to build and program robots to do all the janitorial work
how can you program an intelligence if you don't know what intelligence is
 
well, I have the 4th highest IQ ever registered - 197.
Einstein had 160.
 
If one claims intelligence can be programmed, then he is not an intelligent individual.
 
4:20 PM
@AviD riiiiiiiiiight.
 
@AviD the law of the internets: instantly shave 50 points off any IQ thrown around in an argument
 
@AviD if @RoryAlsop had said that, I would have had to consider my response for much longer
 
@AviD wait a minute that's a pop culture reference
 
@Flyk uhhh it was a quote
 
4:21 PM
@Ohnana yyyeeeeessss, good for you
 
shrug
 
@Ohnana you get a gold star.
 
oh man this guy is a pathological liar
and a really bad bullshitter
 
oh yeah
and clueless about infosec or tech in general
 
that explain's @AviD's interest
 
4:23 PM
@Ohnana you should watch Scorpion
make sure you've had a good few drinks first.
 
is it good?
 
@Flyk so baaaad its funny
 
oh, if a show requires alcohol...
I love big bang theory
and ncis
and I have no time for anything else
 
ctually a decent show, but the tech and infosec is really NCIS level bullshit.
 
although when Continuum starts back up again for its final season I will be watching that
 
4:24 PM
they are past the GUI in Visual Basic.
 
I can't believe they cancelled it
what a bunch of assholes
 
raz
@AviD Every hacker can wirelessly download plane firmware via a flyover, don't know why he had to bring a car into it.
 
@raz cuz its SOOO COOOOOLLL
nuuuh
and really, the car was the only thing that bothered you with that??
 
@AviD I saw this one episode of NCIS where they had a laptop in a faraday cage and then suddenly ZOMG THE VIRUS IS ESCAPING DOWN THE POWER CORD
nearly wet myself
 
You get turned on by weird stuff.
 
4:26 PM
@Flyk PoE -- not even once
 
how about the whole premise (even ignoring the clueless genius part, or the over-stereotyped "I'm a hacker so I'm nasty")
 
raz
@Flyk When Gibbs shoots monitors to destroy computers, hard not to burst out laughing.
 
@raz yes
 
> "The bombs missed their target, so it MUST have been my software!"
 
or you get Abi and McGee typing on the same computer
because that works
"You hold every highscore in every MMO"
no you don't, not with a complexion like that
 
4:27 PM
@raz oh and what about the dual keyboard?
 
you've been outside at some point in the last year
 
damn @Flyk ninja'd me
 
raz
@Flyk I wish I could crack advanced encryption by writing nice GUI decryptors in minutes...
 
or... Numb3rs interpretation of IRC
oooooooooooh
 
@Flyk I can tell what CPU you have from your screensaver!
 
4:28 PM
now I need to youtube for laughter
@AviD "Is that a 12 core?"
er, yes, not sure how you could see through the case but good guess!
 
so yeah, if you like that type of stuff, Scorpion is packed with it.
other than that, and the jackassery, its actually halfway decent.
it is a fun show, at least.
 
I should take my relatively weak but still significantly better than current standards knowledge of IT and computers and go work in hollywood
I think the closest thing I've seen to sensible is trinity hacking power plants in the matrix by scanning for open ports with nmap
 
@Ohnana No, you need to use 200 - ClaimedIQ
 
@CodesInChaos whoo that's harsh
 
@AviD did Einstein really only have 160. On a Cassell B? Wow.
 
4:30 PM
@Ohnana Why? It leaves the average untouched.
 
@RoryAlsop that's pretty much the highest possible on standard tests.
 
@CodesInChaos true
 
I guess this is why the Serebriakoff tests were developed
They are much more useful for the top 1 to 2 percent
 
@RoryAlsop MENSA don't even score above something like 169 for adults
 
hey @Xander save me some work, if you happen to know - if I mark a method as async, and change nothing else (no await), how does that change the MSIL? if at all?
 
4:31 PM
@Flyk That's what I thought the top was, not 160
hence my confusion
 
not that I have any experience with these things /rolleyes
 
@RoryAlsop sooo look who's showing off his "experience" with "knowledge", Mr. Mensa.
 
@Flyk were you going to contribute an article on multithreaded regexp based crypto for the Mensa SecSIG then?
@AviD lol
 
GUYZ
sec.se == su
you're even!
717 rep
 
@AviD As you can see by me, Mensa is no indication of anything other than a score on the IQ test game
@Flyk Yay!
 
4:34 PM
@AviD I don't know off the top of my head.
 
(Quick, upvote or downvote Flyk! to upset the OCD)
 
@RoryAlsop (on SU)
 
@Flyk well, obviously :-)
 
@RoryAlsop woah, don't mess with my OCD
I will be shaking in a corner by the end of the day mumbling nonsense about how all of my knifes aren't the same length
somebody explain http/2 to me
in small words, preferably two syllables or less
 
@Flyk the next version of the HTTP protocol
it focuses on being fast
 
4:39 PM
gee, I'm glad that you were so helpful, I'd not worked that part out
 
@Ohnana so does @Simon
 
right, based off SPDY
 
@Flyk you said small words
 
@Ohnana FAIL. "protocol" has 3 syllables.
 
yes, it's strange how sometimes people do exactly what I ask and the rest of the time they just assume I'm joking
talking about major security risks
 
4:42 PM
@AviD ah right. I split it into proto-col because I mash them together
 
what are your opinions on Hello Barbie?
 
@Flyk I was just taking the opportunity to be silly
 
whoa @RоryMcCune your superphish q is training, as expected.
damn shoulda thrown an answer on that
 
@AviD same, I had literally just read an article on it
 
> The number one request we hear from girls around the world is that they want to have a conversation with Barbie. Now, for the first time ever, Barbie can have a two-way conversation
 
4:45 PM
@Flyk what could possibly go wrong
 
@Flyk talking to other humans is overrated
 
@Ohnana humans are overrated
You humans, always assuming you're the only intelligent lifeform around.
Well guess what, the rest of us barely consider what you have to be "intelligence".
 
@AviD indeed, filthy humans
living in your own filth
 
@Flyk These humans are protected. LEAVE THEM ALONE.
 
sorry, the united galaxy protected planets treaty only covers planets that have not detonated nuclear weapons
 
raz
4:51 PM
@AviD Who?
 
Yooouu just wait. Wait and see. These humans, they're just starting out, but wait a while - they will spread out, for billions and billions of miles, for billions and billions of years, all over the universe.
@raz nice!
@raz I'm not sure if my first quote was from 11, but it should have been.
 
raz
@AviD Yeah I can't remember.
 
@Flyk what is this from?
 
@Ohnana my brain?
> An Indian bride has married a guest at her wedding after her groom-to-be had a seizure and collapsed.
what a bitch
 
@Flyk arranged marriage. apparently the families are supposed to disclose that
 
4:55 PM
> I've paid a lot for this meal, and I squeezed into this dress that I've been dieting for a month to fit in to. This wedding is happening.
 
@Ohnana arranged marriages are another argument entirely
that I'm not going to have
because it's just bad news
 
eff.org/deeplinks/2015/02/… <-- interesting superfish stats, on at least 44k machines (and likely an awful lot more)
 
@RоryMcCune SSL observatory FTW
 
@avid you should invite the guys who invented the superfish tech along to your next OWASP meeting, see if you can educate them! komodia.com/about
 
@RоryMcCune hahaha
oo or maybe get them to give a talk
"How we MitM'd the World - For the Chinese Military"
@RоryMcCune why komodia? home.superfish.com/#!about-us/c1eqi
 
5:06 PM
@AviD apparently the idea is that underlying it's komedia tech they're using
 
aww hell though we should probably have a talk about it, one way or the other. Imma gonn' get roped into doing it, I bet
 
@AviD also the password on the root ca key is "komodia"
 
@RоryMcCune "underlying tech" durp its not futuristic complicated stuff
@RоryMcCune noooooo!
really?
wow.
 
I am genuinely torn - are they more evil, or more incompetent?
@RоryMcCune you should collect all these links into your q.
 
5:08 PM
incompetence + clueless as to the consequences of their actions I think
 
be the central clearing house for quality info on this.
also make my next owasp talk easier.
 
@AviD good plan I'll add them in
 
@RоryMcCune yes, but their actual intent was also quite evil
unwanted ad injection
 
@AviD well ads are bad but if you're and ad company it's kind of your job I guess
 
@RоryMcCune "your job" doesnt mean its not evil
 
5:10 PM
@AviD ofc
 
injecting unwanted ads into other peoples personal connection is still evil, even if someone pays you for it
hmm, maybe I can shakedown the superphish / komodia guys for an owasp sponsorship.
as the EFF said "Lenovo has not just injected ads in a wildly inappropriate manner"
 
@AviD The user gets better ads, I get more money. It's win-win.
As far as I can tell, Komodia simply offers a TCP interception library. I don't see a problem with that, as long as it happens with the user's consent.
 
raz
5:28 PM
@CodesInChaos you think the Chinese care about user consent?
 
5:46 PM
@raz or indeed any government :)
@Flyk . . .
 
sometimes it just happens
sigh
 
raz
No! That was awesome
sigh real genesis is always discredited.
 
now even parodies are being censored.
today is a sad day for freedom of speech
 
raz
Sadly the Internet does not support freedom of speech.
 
guess I'll just have to conform to the Ministry of Truth's teachings.
♫ the following signal is a test
 
5:52 PM
@raz Well Phil Collins isn't that great
 
@raz so you're a fan of Mr Collins' work then I take it?
 
raz
@RоryMcCune I like Genesis
 
@CodesInChaos if I watch you in your home to see what food you like, you'll get better ads
 
if I slice you up into little pieces, I will better know what you've done with your life and will be able to serve you better ads
 
6:16 PM
@Simon That is possibly the oddest album cover I have seen. And I've seen some weird ass album covers
 
@AviD Hard disk malware - why bother! Lessons from 1 year of MitM-ing everyone!
 
@Nוnɛfוngɛrϛ new book?
 
@Ohnana I'm sure it could be both a conference talk on the lines Avi suggested as well as a book.
And for buzzfeed/linkedin: that ONE way you're always overcomplicating implants for your terrorists.
 
@Simon Also, I'm kinda a big fan.
 
@DavidFreitag <3 Geck-o
 
6:26 PM
That awkward moment when you realize the shirt you hastily grabbed without looking is stained badly, at work.
 
They'll give a raise thinking you're slowly becoming a hobo.
 
@Simon this guy's going places
 
6:42 PM
Hi
 
@RоryMcCune this sort of thing makes me scared when people start saying "internet of things". I don't want my fridge to try to sell me stuff based on knowing what's in it.
 
raz
@AndrewSmith Hi
 
@AndrewSmith Hello and welcome
 
oh, apparently one of my VPN providers is also a TOR exit node
 
raz
@Nוnɛfוngɛrϛ Yeah but once we figure out teleportation then the fridge can buy your food for you! And then it will happily show up without you needing to leave.
@Flyk I don't think that's uncommon.
 
6:48 PM
I wasn't aware
 
@raz yes but people like me will program these things. What'll end up happening is that the fridge will get stick in a loop buying milk. Not only will I lose the fridge, but it'll be at some shop somewhere trying to explain why the credit card can't pay for all the milk they have.
 
There's a lot of stuff you're unaware of.
 
raz
@Nוnɛfוngɛrϛ ahahahaha
@Flyk Just to let you know, this is what I think of every time I see your name:
 
@raz why?
 
@raz Hey, that's me on the far right!
Look how ugly I am.
 
6:52 PM
why is everybody so mean to me
 
raz
@Flyk the kid with his tongue stuck to the poll is named Flick
 
oh well
whatevs
 
@raz Somehow I believe that I've seen that scene but possibly 15 years ago.
I have a vague souvenir.
 
raz
@Simon A Christmas Story
It's on TBS 24/7 on Christmas day.
If they have that in your country.
 
Cheers, I'll check it out.
I don't think so.
We have Christmas Vacation on here every Christmas.
mad lulz
 
raz
6:54 PM
A Christmas Story is the best Christmas movie of all time, outside of Die Hard and Gremlins.
 
Die hard is the Christmas film
And all Bond films
 
Yes this ^
 

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