Other religions also believe in a heavenly power. Want to challenge that too?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. Is your question something like this one? I don't see how that has anything to do with "how is Judaism true"

You might want to have a look at this page, and this other page from our help center, before asking more questions.

@scimonster, I want u to give me Torah sources that say why there is animal scarfice in other religions besides Judaism, and how Judaism is true even though other religions had animal scarfices

@user8730 I don't see how other religions having animal sacrifice impacts the truth in Judaism. You might want to edit your question to show how those two ideas are linked.

@user8730 Why would Jewish sources make comment about WHY other religions do what they do? Jewish sources don't have to explain why other religions have prayer, or holidays, do they?

@danno do u get my point now

Now I see where you're going with this. I hope you don't mind that I edited your question; if it's not what you intended, feel free to edit further, yourself. I have voted to reopen.

I think Rav Hirsch discusses this question, but I'm not sure where. If I find anything I'll let you know :)

@user8730 I understand your assertion but I don't see any factual basis for it, nor even any causal question -- assume other "religions" existed an had animal sacrifice -- why would that change a divine decree for Jews to sacrifice animals or grain? If you want to analyze scholarly treatises on the history of Judaism then you should say so.

"...He did not command us to give up and to discontinue all these manners of service; for to obey such a commandment it would have been contrary to the nature of man, who generally cleaves to that to which he is used... For this reason God allowed these kinds of service to continue; He transferred to His service that which had formerly served as a worship of created beings, and of things imaginary and unreal, and commanded us to serve Him in the same manner."

@fred that means Judaism did copy from another religion

@user8730 According to the Rambam... sort of. Yes, in the sense that they were familiar with this type of worship because it was common in the surrounding cultures. However, the original source in the Bible for offering sacrifices still traces to monotheistic worship, for example Genesis 4:3,4 and many later instances throughout the Book of Genesis (involving Noach, Avraham, Yitzchak, Ya'akov, etc.).

@fred if even sort of how is Judaism true then cause G-d is beyond anything we can think of, so why would he allow us to give him scarfice since he is beyond anything we can think of

@user8730 We can't expect to ever fully fathom the reasons why the Almighty does or commands anything the way he does (Isaiah 55:9). Still, we can attempt to partially understand reasons (see Hil T'mura 4:13), and the Rambam attempts just that in Moreh N'vuchim cited above. You may be interested in reading what he writes there in full. Note, though, that this is just the Rambam's opinion. The Ramban (Leviticus 1:9) trenchantly disagrees that Jewish sacrifice derives from other cultures.

@fred why did only Ramban comment on scarfice why not Rashi

@user8730 Rashi lived before the Rambam, so he couldn't respond to the Rambam. But he did comment extensively on sacrifices, such as on Leviticus 1:2, where he says that monotheistic sacrifices trace back to Adam.

@fred show me all the commentary Rashi did on scarfice

@user8730 If only I was a computer, that could immediately generate such an extensive list of all such comments by Rashi on Tanach, the Talmud, and in his other writings. Alas, I am not. Here's a link to a translation of Rashi's commentary on Leviticus, though. Enjoy studying!

@user8730 Also, you might like this article that discusses this disagreement between the Rambam and the Ramban.

@fred, k but what about the Hebrew language evolving, if Judaism is true why would the language need to evolve

@user8730 Why not? Any good language should adapt as the need to communicate changes. Anyway, though that's not really pertinent to this question about sacrifices, you may be interested in the following questions about Hebrew language: Here, here, here, here, and here.

@fred hebrew was given to the Jews by G-d, so how could something given by G-d need to evolve cause everything give by G-d directly will last forever

@user8730 "everything give by G-d directly will last forever". Says who? Anyway, Hebrew still lasts, and people still study Hebrew in its biblical, mishnaic, and modern forms. Despite the existence of different forms, it's still the same language; linguists generally consider different forms the same language if they are mutually intelligible, and, except for adoption of loanwords that someone from long ago wouldn't understand, they are.

@fred I heard scientist say that the torah was written by four different people cause the first part of the torah is linguistly different then the other parts of the torah

@user8730 You're talking about the documentary hypothesis, which is kind of dubious, and the evidence marshaled in support of is not compelling as such. (Related on Mi Yodeya: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/38773 and judaism.stackexchange.com/q/27379 and this answer).

@user8730 It seems like you have a lot of questions about the origins of the Torah. I suggest that, for any given question you have, you look to see if it has already been asked and answered. If it hasn't, ask it. Don't be discouraged that some of your questions have already been put on hold - after appropriate editing, they can be reopened (such as this one, which is on its way to being reopened). For the best results, try to conform to judaism.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic and judaism.stackexchange.com/help/dont-ask .

@user8730 Also, keep in mind that Mi Yodeya does not offer rabbinic advice. I would encourage you to find a rabbi who is knowledgeable about these topics and speak with him face to face.

@fred why did Judaism have to start in the middleeast why couldn't it have started in China, Southeast Asian, India, Australia, etc

@user8730 It had to start somewhere. As to whether there was prior significance to the Land of Israel (spoiler: the answer is yes, at least according to multiple sources), and what that significance was, I think that is a wonderful question to ask.

@fred please do tell me the reason the land of Israel is significant cause it is in a desert area wouldn't land be better in China cause it's in a tropical area or Southeast Asia cause it's also in a tropical area

@user8730 there's this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_Stone

@user8730 I don't know why climate would necessarily be the determining criterion (or why the tropics would be preferable), but note that Israel has quite a variety of climates for such a small area, and parts of Israel have just about the most mild climate you can find anywhere in the world. China, which is a huge country, also has quite a variety of climates, including desert.

@fred cause during the summer Israel lacks rain but China never lacks rain

@user8730 Depending on the type of crops you want to grow, persistent rainfall in the summer may not be a good thing. Rain is blessed when it falls in its appropriate time (see Deut. 11:14).

@fred still China has lush foliage, and they invented paper

@user8730 Every land and every people has its charms.

@user8730 Rather than continue this back and forth in the comment section, you might want to ask your questions in the questions section of this site, as you have already done with some of your questions. Alternatively, you might be interested in Mi Yodeya's chat room.

@fred China was a power country that has vast land where Israel is weak and has very little land

@user8730 The Jews were not supposed to be such a large nation (Deut. 4:27, 7:7), and the land is supposed to be an appropriate fit to their numbers (K'subos 112a on Jeremiah 3:19; see also Deut. 7:22).

@fred also China is an exotic place but Israel isn't

@Fred You need 20 rep to talk in chat, but room owners may be able to lift that restriction (I think)

@Shokhet Oh, right. I don't think I'm a room owner here (am I?).

@Fred You're an owner, but so is 8730

Hi!

@Shokhet Gotcha. No problem then.

@Shokhet Hi

@Fred :)

@Fred If you want to continue the discussion here, you should probably ping him, so that he'll see it in his inbox, next time he logs in.

@Shokhet I already suggested asking questions as questions. And I'm not sure what to make of the exotic China comment.

@Fred I saw that. I don't know what that means, either.

@Shokhet I think it was meant as a joke, but I guess it could have been meant as a serious argument: Premise 1: China is inherently more exotic than Israel. Premise 2: A more exotic land is a definitively superior land. Conclusion: China is definitively superior to Israel.

@Fred Could be, though obviously "exotic" depends on your point of view; I don't know any Chinese, personally, but I can't imagine that they would consider China to be exotic; Israel would probably be very exotic to the Chinese.

@Shokhet They are busy wondering why God gave them such a humid and boring land, instead of the mild and exotic land of Israel.

@Fred "They" = the Chinese? .....could be :)

.....IAE, I have to run now; maariv is about to start. TZT!

@Shokhet TZT. :)

By the way, @Fred, I have to say you did a great job answering all the comment/questions. I didn't check if any of them have been asked yet, but it's a pity 8730 didn't ask them as questions.

When a mod moves comments to chat all participants become room owners, so you can talk in here even if you don't have enough rep to use chat otherwise. So @user8730 you can talk in here; @Fred @Shokhet please be aware that he hasn't used SE chat before.

@MonicaCellio Got it; thanks.

@fred when mosiach comes it says everybody in the whole world will believe in Hashem, but what uncontacted tribes in the Amazon rainforest for example, how will they believe in HaShem since they aren't known to the rest of mankind

@user8730 I'm confused by this string of questions. Are you just trying to pick a fight or are you actually trying to ask a question to get an answer?

If you want to know what Judaism thinks about something (or at least what "Judaism-according-to-a-handful-of-web-literate-passionate-21st-century-Jews" thinks about something), then you're welcome to ask

If you're here to ask about the premise of Judaism according to those same handful of folks, also please ask

If you're just here to argue, you are not in the proper forum. There are other chat forums that encourage this type of thing, but this site is for questions that the person asking genuinely wants an answer to

(the chat section is totally fair game to pick a fight, but people might just ignore you if you're not interested in bilateral communication)

I am here to get my question answered

what is your question?

ps - to reply to a comment, you can click on the little arrow that appears on the right side when you hover your mouse over the comment.

What I wrote directly above

that serves two purposes. First, it keeps a conversation thread together for future readers

and second, it notifies the person you are responding to

@user8730 like this

Another way to notify the person is to start typing @ and then their username, but that does not keep the thread intact

@koppelman

try @charlesKoppelman

It should autocomplete

@CharlesKoppelman

.... at least it'll autocomplete for anyone who's been in the room lately

@user8730 perfect!

@user8730 so back to this.

@user8730 that's a legit question to ask on the main site. But it would be even stronger if you can cite the first bit

i wonder if it's already been asked. it seems quite likely

have you done any research on your own into this question?

(that would also be helpful and give you a much better response)

No, just was randomly searching on wiki and found out about uncontacted tribes and then later that about what will happen when moshiach comes

@CharlesKoppelman

@user8730 ok, so a "good question" here means that you've put some thought and effort into it already. People give you better and more well-thought-out answers when you show your work

@CharlesKoppelman that's what I did in my opinion

@user8730 Where did you do it?

@CharlesKoppelman didn't u read the question

@user8730 the one that's here in chat?

@CharlesKoppelman Yes!!!

@user8730 Indeed, I did. That's not really going to get any answers since it's not really in the main site.

I'm trying to help you get a good answer to your question using the main site. Not trying to answer your question myself.

@CharlesKoppelman but there is tons of people on the chat room

@user8730 Do what you'd like. Questions don't serve the same purpose there

@CharlesKoppelman could u take a crack at my question

@user8730 I don't know what you mean by "it says"

what is it?

wikipedia has no authority in Judaism

.... i mean... reality does. and wikipedia as a record of reality does, but wikipedia tends not to make claims regarding messiah

I meant about when moshiach comes...

@CharlesKoppelman

@user8730 ok, who says what?

@CharlesKoppelman Isiah

(to edit a recent chat post, you can just press the up arrow)

@user8730 Isaiah says what? And where?

@CharlesKoppelman that when moshiach comes all mankind will believe in Hashem

@user8730 Citation?

@user8730 I'm not as learned as you. I don't know the bible off the top of my head. But you know about this, so presumably you know where it is

@CharlesKoppelman Isaiah 2:17

@user8730 ok, so let's get that as a starting point. here's some commentary on that

I don't have the expert knowledge on this

but i bet the collective knowledge of this site does

@CharlesKoppelman I hope so

@user8730 so why don't you ask about it on the main site?

I can help you write the question in a way that's compelling if you want

@CharlesKoppelman seriously?

by the way, that doesn't explicitly say "all people"

@user8730 seriously help you? sure

i skimmed the messiah tag and the isaiah tag and didn't find that question asked at all

@CharlesKoppelman it's interpreted that way

@user8730 by whom?

(see? you already have done a lot of this work, it's just all in your head. the more that's explicit, the better the answers you'll get will be)

by commentator's

@CharlesKoppelman

@user8730 which commentators? where do they say it?

or if you don't know, then at least why do you think that commentators have interpreted that as such?

Rashi,Ramban @CharlesKoppelman

@user8730 Where?

....its confusing when you can cite a specific commentator's opinion on a specific verse but not where they said such

@CharlesKoppelman chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/…

@user8730 Can you get a little more specific, please?

That's the whole of Rashi on Tanakh

Rashi on that verse, as translated by Chabad there is:

chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15933#v=17

> "on that day: That is the Day of Judgment."

that's it.

@CharlesKoppelman books.google.com/…

@user8730 I am having a hard time finding the quotation you mean

can you pull it out?

(I'm really just trying to help you ask this question in a great way that can get a good answer. I don't have the expertise to answer your question myself)

because a lot of the questions you've been asking have been reasonable, just not asked in a way to get good answers

@CharlesKoppelman books.google.com/…

would you mind just typing it up here?

isn't Tyndale a Christian commentator?

but anyway, what is the actual quote?

there's a lot on that page and quite frankly, i'm not going to read it all

@CharlesKoppelman it is alluded to in the Shema

@user8730 Where?

seriously - if you're trying to ask a very specific question, you should be specific in your source. if you're trying to ask a general question, that's totally fine, but at least explain where you got your assumptions from

@CharlesKoppelman abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread652643/pg1

can you put the quote here please?

I've never heard of abovetopsecret.com and I'm not entirely comfortable clicking on that link

@Fred In case you'd like to know, the question has been reopened.

@CharlesKoppelman The whole world will worship the One God of Israel. (Isaiah 2:17) [109][110]

@user8730 but you just saw Isaiah 2:17

that's not what it says

it says: And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

(actually, "וְשַׁח֙ גַּבְה֣וּת הָאָדָ֔ם וְשָׁפֵ֖ל ר֣וּם אֲנָשִׁ֑ים וְנִשְׂגַּ֧ב יְהוָ֛ה לְבַדּ֖וֹ בַּיּ֥וֹם הַהֽוּא׃")

(the english is the JPS 1917 translation)

@CharlesKoppelman The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance. (Zechariah 8:23

> Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’

That's Zech 8:23

@CharlesKoppelman not according to wiki that is

@user8730 sefaria.org/Zechariah.8.23

i'll find it on mechon-mamre, also

mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2308.htm#23

כֹּה-אָמַר, יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, בַּיָּמִים הָהֵמָּה, אֲשֶׁר יַחֲזִיקוּ עֲשָׂרָה אֲנָשִׁים מִכֹּל לְשֹׁנוֹת הַגּוֹיִם; וְהֶחֱזִיקוּ בִּכְנַף אִישׁ יְהוּדִי לֵאמֹר, נֵלְכָה עִמָּכֶם--כִּי שָׁמַעְנוּ, אֱלֹהִים עִמָּכֶם.

would you like me to find it on other bible translations?

@CharlesKoppelman still it alludes to all the world believing in Hashem

@user8730 ok, so you're welcome to ask a question on that

@CharlesKoppelman okay

@user8730 that's totally a good question if you cite your source. but please check if that's already been asked

@CharlesKoppelman I think it wasn't

it would make it an even better question if you first tried a google search on the jewish understanding of that verse viz. people that have never met a Jew

@CharlesKoppelman but this website is designed to cater to jews, am I wrong

@user8730 huh?

@user8730 I thought your question was about how people who had never met a Jew would respond in the way Zechariah prophesied

@CharlesKoppelman reread my question and u will understand

@CharlesKoppelman oh

@user8730 so it'd be great if you could do some of the legwork - it would give people a better starting point

@user8730 and technically this website caters to people who are interested in Judaism. not Jews

@CharlesKoppelman do u want to hop on and do some of the legwork with me

@user8730 no

@user8730 I have other things to do

@CharlesKoppelman just asking

@user8730 no problem

@CharlesKoppelman k

@CharlesKoppelman on a different subject is it halachaicly allowed for Tovia Singer, and other counter missionary to know the NT

um... just ps - you'll probably get better responses if you wait to ask after about 8pm UTC tomorrow

so... 4pm-ish EST

sorry, i guess that's about 9pm UTC. but it's kinda irrelevant. not very much traffic here on Shabbat

@user8730 why do you think it would be not allowed? (i'm specifically not answering your questions)

@CharlesKoppelman Shabbos doesn't end 4:00ish EST it Ends 5:00ish EST

yes. i know. but there are israelis and europeans here, too

but do what you'd like

@user8730 I haven't noted anything

is that a quote from somewhere?

@CharlesKoppelman yes

....where?

dinonline.org/2012/06/27/new-testament-in-hotel-room

@user8730 so the deal is that i am not a rabbi, and we generally don't learn halakha from either blogs or directly from the Rambam.

It's definitely a decent starting point in the conversation, but there's a lot more nuance in piskei halakha