The Sphinx's Lair

7:00 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe @Gilles takes a more conservative stance and would prefer to see challenges banned?

@Gilles - I wrote that before seeing your latest post. Why is an overwhelming proportion of challenges bad??

Gilles

I had this problem on Science Fiction & Fantasy. I wanted to save recommendation requests, because they're useful. But quasi-systematically, when someone posted a recommendation request, it was awful: far too open-ended.

rand al'thor

Surely recommendation requests are 'opinion-based, VTC, end of story'?

Gilles

Eventually [literature.se] tried recommendations, and there it was only a little better: there were a few very good ones, but most were mediocre at best

@randal'thor No, not necessarily

AJ Henderson

Shog's a pretty level headed fellow. I think he was more demonstrating the level of frustration the situation causes and how unproductive the vitriol was. I would be lying if I said I didn't share many of his feelings. I see the underlying potential if we can work to first deal with the vitriol and then move forward, but the big thing was to show the very real frustration at the self-defeating issues

Gilles

@randal'thor I see little value in challenges as such, because they have no lasting value: once solved, they're no longer challenges

sure, you can make a collection of questions that are challenges, but what's the point of a questions and answers site if you're going to ignore the answers?

bobbee

7:03 PM

@Emrakul hello

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor yeah, I would personally agree a few of the lines could have stayed, but I think it was more a message to either participate nicely or don't participate because even uninvolved parties are getting pissed at the behavior

which is why I didn't comment at the time that there were a few valid points for discussion buried in the deleted posts

rand al'thor

@Gilles People have published books of puzzles with answers at the back! New users coming to the site can enjoy struggling with the challenge themselves, with the answer there if they need it.

2

Gilles

Add to that the very low quality of challenge questions and answers

It's improved a bit from the spaghetti days

rand al'thor

@AJHenderson I wish someone had saved a copy of Oblongamous's so-called 'rant' so that it could be re-posted. It really wasn't offensive to begin with!

Gilles

And now people are working on quality guidelines on meta

rand al'thor

7:05 PM

@Gilles - What are you saying? Challenge questions and answers are necessarily low-quality? That's what it sounds like.

bobbee

@randal'thor It's funny because I posted an answer on meta that was saying everything you are talking about right now :D

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor you can have good subjective support there

it is a hard line to define and walk and is more something the community learns to feel than define

Gilles

@randal'thor No, I'm saying that a majority of the ones that are today on the site are low-quality

rand al'thor

@bobbee - Where?

@Gilles Examples?

AJ Henderson

but that's why that concesus is so critical, otherwise you have exactly what Puzzling has now, completely schizophrenic close votes

bobbee

7:06 PM

@randal'thor it was like one month ago I guess. I will search for it

Gilles

@randal'thor most of the spaghetti questions (“guess what number I'm thinking of”) are alive and kicking

rand al'thor

@Gilles If you say it's the majority today, you should be able to pick several off the front page that you think are low-quality

none or almost none of the spaghetti questions have been active for weeks

AJ Henderson

the close vote issues is a symptom, not the problem, the problem is lack of defined quality or atleast useful guidelines towards quality

bobbee

0

A: How do we improve the quality of content produced on Puzzling.SE?

@Gilles @Emrakul @d'alar'cop Well, there is a big problem behind all these discussions. Obviously, most of the time we are talking about question that have been answered long time ago or were never in need of an answer. So just to make clear: Are there too many riddles? - Yes. Many riddles are...

@randal'thor it was long long time ago but I saw this all coming I guess

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor some parts of it were

Gilles

7:08 PM

top question on the front page:

11

Q: A sentence with the same opposite twice?

You have to use two words that are each their own opposite in the same sentence. The means that each of the two words in used twice, with the meanings in context being opposite to each other. This sentence must be a grammatically-correct English sentence. The goal is to make it short. The accepte...

AJ Henderson

I agreed with about 4 or 5 lines (and yes, I did read the whole thing)

rand al'thor

I agree a lot of the spaghetti questions were low-quality (and I admit I posted a few), and a lot of warspyking's many many questions too (sorry warspy!), but ...

Gilles

the meta-tag open-ended is a big warning sign

what is it with some users' obsession with meta-tags here?

rand al'thor

@AJHenderson I didn't agree with all of it either, but enough to be able to star the majority of it

Gilles

um, ok, the question isn't so bad

AJ Henderson

7:09 PM

@Gilles that was why I suggested that answers should require more than just the solution, but rather either enhance the problem with suggested hints for it, or explain the way the answer works.

Gilles

it needs a title that's more than a jumble of words though

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor sorry, I meant I agreed with deleting about 4 or 5 lines

there were also 4 or 5 lines of it that I thought raised points that need discussion too though

rand al'thor

@Gilles "isn't so bad" is just what I was thinking!

admittedly titles can be a problem here

I actually think most riddles aren't really titleable

bobbee

(very often the title would be the solution)

rand al'thor

exactly!

I was just about to say that in a more long-winded way :-)

your succintness is admirable sir

Geobits

7:12 PM

I agree that titles here are hard, but I don't think the fix is "tagline riddle #4", which I've seen a bit of here.

rand al'thor

maybe not, though I don't think I've seen a better solution in general

user61230

Titling is indicative of a broader problem.

rand al'thor

I've always managed to title my riddles without using 'catchphrases' like Oblongamous and Avigrail/Bobbee, but not always very well

Geobits

I don't know that there has to be a general solution. Riddle posers should be able to come up with something for a title IMO.

user61230

Riddles uniquely have no defining characteristic besides their text.

rand al'thor

7:13 PM

@Emrakul Maybe this is another thing that could be tweaked out of the standard SE line?

Geobits

The 'general' solutions I've seen (using first line, etc) work well for some and not others.

bobbee

I sometimes included a hint in the headline which seems to be a way

Geobits

I like those with hints.

user61230

@randal'thor What do you mean?

Gilles

I'm surprised we don't have a tag like language or english

rand al'thor

7:14 PM

I mean, if you can have a whole site of opinion-based questions (as @Gilles pointed out), why not a site with lots of titleless or undescriptively titles questions?

Gilles

word-problem means somehing different

rand al'thor

people who like riddles will look at them all anyway

Gilles

@randal'thor actually Software Recommendations is NOT for opinion-based questions

AJ Henderson

@Gilles you know, I don't necessarily think meta-tags are always bad. They certainly need to be approached with a great deal of caution but sometimes sub-categorical filtering can be beneficial as long as it is tightly constrained and limited

Gilles

Software Recommendations has the second-toughest moderation of SE, after Skeptics (which requires serious references in every answer)

user61230

7:15 PM

@randal'thor There are no sites dedicated to opinion-based questions.

AJ Henderson

we have one meta-tag we use for removing content that some people don't want to see as a compromise on Sound Design and it has worked pretty well for us

rand al'thor

@Gilles That makes sense! @Emrakul Sorry, my mistake. Let me come up with a real precedent.

user61230

Some sites go with opinion answers supported by facts and references, but there are no strictly opinion-based sites.

user61230

No worries!

AJ Henderson

though that situation was a bit different as the questions were ok from a general perspective we just had a large contingent of experienced users that saw them as noise

Geobits

7:16 PM

@Emrakul Parenting is pretty damn close to purely subjective IMO...

bobbee

+1

AJ Henderson

I'd still be a bit worried about making things too noisy for a new user

Geobits

But I'd hate for Puzzling to end up like that :o

user61230

@Geobits They still follow Back It Up.

user61230

....at least most of the time. Sometimes. I think?

Geobits

7:16 PM

They say they do, but the actual content I've seen there doesn't follow it so closely.

rand al'thor

PPCG breaks a lot of mainstream-SE rules, right? (I know basically nothing about PPCG, but...) And Robert Cartaino's famous answer has made clear that Puzzling is allowed to break some mainstream-SE rules.

@Emrakul Maybe they need more mods on Parenting.SE. Volunteers? :-)

Hands up - who's a parent here?

user61230

That's fair, but also, that is a quality issue. The goal for them is Back It Up - whether it happens that way is little different.

Geobits

I'm a parent, but the site horrifies me. Sorry.

user61230

@randal'thor PPCG isn't a site we can model ourselves after.

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor to repeat the CS mantra "naming is HARD"

Gilles

7:18 PM

@Emrakul @randal'thor Programmers started out to be that, and it quickly went south, and took years to reshape into something useful

rand al'thor

@Geobits I'm not, but after seeing 'what sort of app would be suitable for my 2-year-old' I never went back!

Gilles

So, first question on the front page: ok with an edit

now looking at the next one

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor searchability is the main problem there

Gilles

4

Q: Not the Jay you saw in "Clerks"

Hello everyone, my name is Jay I work for you 24 hours a day, but don't get me wrong I know not Silent Bob and got nothing to do with weed on the job. My kind can be you or you can be me if you know a body by its chemistry. We're not only human, but mostly a thing! We have many shapes, on the air...

riddle

it's a riddle, they're difficult to evaluate without having an answer

AJ Henderson

any large DB is going to be very limited if the first challenge is just finding it

rand al'thor

7:19 PM

@Emrakul Nobody's saying we should model ourselves on PPCG! Why do you guys get so defensive on that? I'm just saying PPCG has broken some of what are normally rules, and we've been told it's OK for Puzzling to do so too.

Gilles

a good riddle has to have an answer that fits, and should have no other answer

bobbee

@Gilles thank you

rand al'thor

@Gilles I know you don't like riddles, but let's try to be objective here, OK? :-)

user61230

Some of them, but that doesn't mean we can pick anything and break it.

user61230

We still have to follow most principles of Stack Exchange.

Geobits

7:21 PM

I like (and upvoted) the Jay riddle. I don't know how unique the answer is yet, but it looks like it was written carefully.

rand al'thor

@Emrakul Of course. I was just raising the possibility of bending the titles rule. Do you think that's absolutely out of the question?

bobbee

It's the spirit of riddles to be misinterpreted. Like going for a walk you want to enjoy walking.

AJ Henderson

@Emrakul some allow for purely opinion if supported with personal experience

rand al'thor

@Gilles And if you realise the single answer that fits is something offensive, don't post it or you'll get suspended! :-p

AJ Henderson

for example, "I like something this way, when I've done it, these were the advantages and these were the disadvantages"

user61230

7:22 PM

@AJHenderson Back It Up, yeah.

AJ Henderson

this way, someone can still make an informed decision from the answer, even if it is still purely opinion

but your opinion by itself has absolutely zero value

Gilles

I can't judge the riddle because I can't think of an answer right now. The answers are bad because they hide everything behind spoilers. How am I supposed to distinguish between the two answers?

Geobits

@randal'thor The 'titles rule' is a rule (I think) because without good titles the front page just looks like crap, and you can't search for anything easily. I don't see the point in letting it go just because titling is hard.

AJ Henderson

because it doesn't help someone else form their opinion

user61230

Blog - Stack Exchange: Good Subjective, Bad Subjective

Robert Cartaino on September 29, 2010

Stack Exchange is about questions with objective, factual answers. We’ve been crystal clear about this for as long as I can remember, even back to the earliest, pre-beta days of Stack Overflow. It’s right there in the standard Stack Exchange FAQ:

What kind of questions should I not ask here?

Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. This is not a discussion board, this is a place for questions that can be answered!

Thus, questions that are not answerable — discussions, debates, opinions — should be closed as subjective. It seems simple enough: Fact good; opinion and discussion bad. But why? …

Gilles

7:23 PM

next down is

8

Q: Murder of the President - Part 6

This is Part 6 of the Murder of the President brainteaser/riddle series. If you have not already, check out the answers for Murder of the President - Part 1 posted by Nit, Murder of the President - Part 2 and Murder of the President - Part 3 both posted by Joe Z., Murder of the President - Part 4...

brainteaser cryptograms mystery

yeah, these are always silly

rand al'thor

@Emrakul TL;DR at least for right now :-)

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor I am as of this past september :)

bobbee

(@randal'thor I'm so proud!) I don't like multi-part riddles, too!

user61230

@randal'thor Worth reading when you have time.

Gilles

it's like a Sherlock Holmes story: what has happened is highly unlikely... I prefer Dirk Gently's take: discard the highly improbable and challenge the impossible

rand al'thor

7:24 PM

@Gilles - Why silly? I thought that looked really good! I would've offered a bounty on it if the OP hadn't first.

@AJHenderson Congratulations :-)

@Emrakul I'm sure it is!

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor this is the other half of why I jumped in here to try and help. I'm a mod on several sites that depart from some of the rules of SE

btw, sorry if I'm talking on a lag, but I am trying to make sure I read everything and respond as I work my way down

rand al'thor

@AJHenderson You're the fellow we need here then! :-)

Michael Myers

First you cut them both down and call an ambulance. Then arrest them both and have them questioned separately, telling each that I figured out the clues and know everything about them, and it will go easier if they just make a confession. — Bachrach44 Dec 16 at 5:41

Don't know why that isn't the accepted answer

rand al'thor

@MichaelMyers Well, it's not an answer but a comment :-p

AJ Henderson

@Gilles or atleast no other answer that works particularly well. If you can come up with a stretch to fit it, that's fine I think, but I also wouldn't vote for a stretch answer as it isn't really following the spirit of the riddle then

Michael Myers

7:29 PM

Sometimes the Gordian knot solution is the only reasonable one

bobbee

Should solcing a riddle include guessing and lateral thinking or should it be a sequence of little, obvious tasks leading you to towards the solution?

solving*

rand al'thor

@AJHenderson IMO a riddle which doesn't have a clear unique answer should be EDITED instead of VTCed. That would improve the quality of the site much more than it just disappearing.

@bobbee Either is OK, surely?

My approach is often to find the line I think will be easiest to crack, get something out of that, and see whether it fits the rest.

bobbee

@randal'thor Dont ask me, I just want people to think about it.

pacoverflow

@Emrakul It seems that the higher ups like Robert Cartaino are perhaps undecided about whether Puzzling can follow the same model as PPCG. At least he seemed open to the possibility.

Gilles

@AJHenderson Bah. That completely kills the fun aspect of puzzling. If there are twisted alternate answers I certainly want to twist them. If only the official answer counts, it's boring (and unfair).

Geobits

7:33 PM

@randal'thor I agree that in most cases edits are better than closes, but closing is (supposedly) meant to be a time for those edits. People get upset when their question gets closed, but they should think of it as a great time to edit it.

AJ Henderson

@randal'thor I will say in fairness to the mods here though, I made the same mistake at first when dealing with the SSD crowd that came over during the SD merge

I tried pushing too many rules on them and was told by CMs that it was ok to back off

Gilles

@pacoverflow A big difference between PPCG and Puzzling is that PPCG requires creative answers, Puzzling not

Geobits

Also, unless you know the single answer the OP had in mind, it's very hard to edit a riddle into shape without changing the intended answer.

rand al'thor

@Geobits OK. I didn't know a closed question could be edited! Perhaps I should have said 'deleted' instead of 'VTCed'.

Gilles

And PPCG does quality control on questions as well, with the sandbox and many meta threads devoted to building a good question. Puzzling doesn't have any of this

AJ Henderson

7:35 PM

@randal'thor VTC and editing aren't mutually exclusive either

Geobits

Oh sure. Deletion should be reserved for the bad of the bad.

AJ Henderson

but I concur

if you can improve something to make it fit, do so, always

pacoverflow

@Gilles Feel free to post your twisted alternate answers. If they fit, they should be upvoted. But the OP can accept whichever one he likes. Just like on SuperUser, if a user has a computer problem, there can be many things to try to fix the problem, but maybe only one actually solves the OP's problem.

Geobits

PPCG's pretty damn strict on question askers, to be honest.

AJ Henderson

unless it would materially detract from the author's intent

Gilles

7:35 PM

@Geobits Deletion is the normal outcome for a closed question, in principle, unless of course it gets reopened

but most sites don't really do this and let closed questions linger, partly because the tools for deletion by non-mods suck

Geobits

Right, but if the question gets improved that won't (or shouldn't) happen. If the OP gets their question closed and makes no attempt to fix it, then I don't see the point of keeping it. The time frame for the deletion script is pretty lenient IIRC.

AJ Henderson

@Gilles if they are particularly clever, I suppose that's fair, but there are plenty of riddles where the answers are really not staying true to the intent of the riddle

bobbee

@pacoverflow I think we had this issue with your latest riddle

AJ Henderson

but again, that's hard to define where the line is

it'll probably be more by people up/down voting with their opinions until a general standard emerges

Gilles

@AJHenderson An answer should fit the riddle, no more no less

the intent is unknowable and irrelevant

bobbee

7:38 PM

@AJHenderson I'd recommend, first of all(!), no deleting before talking to the creator of the riddle

rand al'thor

I've just found out even more about Shog9's bad practice. I'm going to start a campaign to indict, impeach, and/or forcibly remove him.

AJ Henderson

@bobbee well, in general, deleting should be pretty rare anyway, only if it is very bad, and even then, they always have the option to flag it for attention

rand al'thor

One of my favourite quotes: "Scum rises to the top."

pacoverflow

@bobbee Downvote it then.

Geobits

@bobbee I think in most cases questions aren't manually deleted, but just sucked up by the script. I believe it picks up old questions that are closed and not upvoted only.

Gilles

7:39 PM

@randal'thor You're going to buy SE? Because he's the boss there.

AJ Henderson

and as far as closing goes, people tend to take closing too seriously. Closing isn't a permanent state, it just means the question isn't currently well enough defined to have useful answers

Gilles

@randal'thor With this attitude, don't expect anyone from SE to take you seriously.

5

bobbee

@pacoverflow I liked the riddle I even posted two answers to it.

rand al'thor

I'm not going to participate any more when I'm this angry; I'll just end up abusing people.

also I've got stuff to do IRL

I'm off

see you later, all!

AJ Henderson

@Gilles there are some answers that clearly are cheaping out on it though, but I suppose there are an entire class of riddles that intend you to cheap out on the answer

but I'm not a big fan of that class of riddle either

bobbee

7:40 PM

@randal'thor get lost, rage kid!!! :D see you buddy

rand al'thor

just one thing @Gilles: I'm using the word 'impeach' in the US sense (remove a public official from office on grounds of misconduct). Shog9 may be high up in the SE organisation, but that doesn't mean his conduct is right, fair, or decent.

I just didn't want to let your remarks stand unchallenged

now I'm off

AJ Henderson

@Geobits there are a few other situations as well, but that's one of the main ones

Gilles

@randal'thor I know the meaning, and it doesn't apply here. You didn't elect him.

Anna Lear

@randal'thor In what sense are you using "lynch"?

3

bobbee

@AnnaLear kind of a joke here

don't take it too serious

Anna Lear

7:44 PM

"Don't take it too serious" seems to be the core problem around here these days.

4

bobbee

whatever

So what's the solution for now? About riddles and their intented answers? I'd be grateful if someone felt ready to sum up.

AJ Henderson

@bobbee that's just it, we don't have a solution from the discussion, just different ideas

bobbee

bummer

AJ Henderson

and really, the discussion needs to be further flushed out in Meta anyway

bobbee

I want to mention xnor here

AJ Henderson

7:47 PM

chat can be a useful place to work through our own thoughts, but until it is on meta, it isn't establishing concensus

a very small portion of the site's population is in chat

bobbee

He once posted a comment to one of my riddles and invited me to chat with him. So we had a nice chat about my riddle and its solution.

AJ Henderson

even if we have representative populations from a lot of the schools of thought

pacoverflow

So riddles are on-topic according to consensus. But their titles could be better. And some of them might have multiple answers that fit. Of course that's no different from any other question that's too broad.

bobbee

Titles is no problem

AJ Henderson

I'd add that they should be well defined. They may support multiple answers, but there should be atleast one answer that when known is clearly correct

pacoverflow

7:50 PM

I agree with that.

bobbee

(Everybody who has no idea should pick the first line as headline for the time being)

AJ Henderson

@bobbee or maybe whatever the core question is

bobbee

+1

AJ Henderson

assuming it is descriptive enough to identify the riddle

bobbee

What if many answers fit? And some of the people around here dont like that?

pacoverflow

7:51 PM

I'm reminded of a comment someone made in a meta post where a riddle might generate multiple answers, and for some of them you might think "Hmm, that could be the answer". But when the intended answer is posted, then you should think "Yes, that MUST be the answer!"

bobbee

That's not always the case

AJ Henderson

I'd argue it should probably have a key answer that feels ideal or atleast a limited number of ideal answers. If not, it's probably getting a little bit too lateral thinking

bobbee

@pacoverflow could you bring in your "boobs" riddle, please

It's too subjective to define that imo

AJ Henderson

when you get to the point that there are infintely many answers and there isn't a good mechanism to evaluate between them, the whole rep and voting system breaks down

as much as it might be nice to have them, I really don't see how they work well with the system

pacoverflow

@bobbee I admit that wasn't my best riddle.

bobbee

7:53 PM

@pacoverflow it is a nice example and no bad riddle at all

AJ Henderson

just as a logistical issue

bobbee

I posted two answers to it and was absolutely sure one of them must be currect!

Both of them were wrong :D

I'm quite familiar with riddling so I understand why these things happen. How do we deal with that?

AJ Henderson

what post was it?

bobbee

@pacoverflow bring it on :D

While coding one can include "else{...}" and the job is done

but riddlers can't think of all possible answers

AJ Henderson

@bobbee right, but you can have atleast a slight idea of how constrained the problem is

bobbee

7:56 PM

3

A: Riddle Poem: "Within me you will find..."

My answer is: Within me you will find One of like heart and mind... As well as an entity With inverted geography. While I represent symmetry Mirrors can show another identity. But there will always be twins Who generate many grins.

AJ Henderson

atleast if you are decent at it

bobbee

That's why I try to make my riddles hard enough so either you get the answer or you will fail :p

pacoverflow

That one didn't have enough clues in it.

bobbee

xnor once said something like "once you have the correct answer you should know"

Which is a nice target but not possible imo

pacoverflow

One issue related to riddles in general (not talking about the one bobbee just mentioned) is that sometimes people will post answers that mostly fit, but don't fit EXACTLY, and then people will think the riddle is bad because it's too broad

Geobits

8:00 PM

^ That too

bobbee

True, you are disappointed when you are wrong. That's natural and people very often do that :/

AJ Henderson

@bobbee that one I would personally argue that neither really fits the riddle well

they are weak answers at best in my opinion

pacoverflow

And there was actually a meta post (i think) where people were hurt by the criticism of their answers, so the OP might not want to point out the flaws in the answers.

AJ Henderson

but the riddle itself I think is well defined

bobbee

@AJHenderson I'm glad to hear this

AJ Henderson

8:01 PM

but I would personally have downvoted the answers, though it does bring up another problem, with downvotes on answers costing rep, it could be VERY hard to gain positive rep on the site ;)

Geobits

Most of my downvotes here have been on answers. I've long since stopped caring about the 1 rep hit for that.

bobbee

Another issue is that people will stop answering riddles. To be honest, there is a lot of fun in reading wrong answers :D

But once the riddle is defined properly people will always know that their answer is wrong and never post it.

I learned a lot by receiving wrong answers to my riddles!

Geobits

I'd rather have a site filled with fun, unsolved challenges than one filled with wrong answers (for fun), but just my opinion.

AJ Henderson

@bobbee there is a big difference between thinking you know you have the right answer vs getting the right answer and going "ok, yeah, I was wrong"

bobbee

Some people around puzzling want riddles to clearly give you the feeling of having the right answer.

In any other case you should instantly know that you are wrong.

Please don't let this happen. Thank you.

AJ Henderson

8:05 PM

@pacoverflow that I would argue is a cultural problem

Geobits

If I can get one or two "right" answers I don't see a problem. If there are seven wrong answers posted, I see an issue with the riddle.

AJ Henderson

people need to be ok with negative feedback if something doesn't work, the point is trying to pursue getting batter answers, which includes pointing out flaws

bobbee

@Geobits did you see my riddle with painting a picture as the answer?

AJ Henderson

granted, the way in which that is presented also matters a lot

pacoverflow

@AJHenderson Agreed

Geobits

8:07 PM

@bobbee Link? Not sure which one you mean?

AJ Henderson

@bobbee yeah, that isn't possible, but I think the other side (knowing, when given the correct answer, that it is in fact the correct answer) is achieveable

bobbee

To sum it up: there was a text saying that I want no written answer but a picture with the answer on it. In fact, I didn't want a picture at all because the text was hiding a message.

8

Q: Are you clever enough [6]?

Hint: Every second is a waste of time. Ok, as you might have expected I secretly implemented many hints for you. This time I want you to answer with this: a unique, selfmade picture with nothing else but the solution on it. Please use colors with contrast to the background color (for obvious r...

riddle word

@AJHenderson I agree that we should work towards that goal!

Back to my riddle. The preface includes a hint but it is encrypted. So once a user doesn't see the hint he will end up drawing a picture.

AJ Henderson

I do think there is some flexibility there too though

even if that is the stated goal

sometimes there are going to be one or two very good answers you didn't expect as the author

but if there are 7 or 8 or more, something needs to be fixed in the riddle

bobbee

Ok I think we can agree on this

That there is a limit somewhere

Geobits

Sure. We just can't set that limit in stone, since it's too subjective. People will all find that line on their own and that's okay.

bobbee

8:11 PM

@Geobits My preface generates wrong answers but on the other hand the riddle was one reasonable answer.

Will such mechanisms be forbidden?

Geobits

I don't think that's bad. If it's purposefully misdirecting, that's different than broadly applicable.

But that's just my opinion. I wouldn't try to make that a rule and force others to vote that way.

bobbee

But how about heaps of wrong answers?

AJ Henderson

@Geobits yeah, the best we can hope for is a generally agreed upon guideline to get people relatively in the same general area

Geobits

Heaps? It only has four, and one is correct. Only one has a picture (that I saw). That's not the heaps I'm talking about.

AJ Henderson

@bobbee lots of wrong answers is fine I think

as long as there aren't lots of arguably right answers that aren't simply ignoring parts of the problem

or making large stretches to work around them

bobbee

8:14 PM

I see your point and I agree

AJ Henderson

ok, it may be friday, but I suppose I should get some work done at some point and this is distracting me too much, so I'm gonna go now. Someone should probably try to write up some of this in either a meta post or an answer to one of the existing ones on quality

see what the broader community thinks

bobbee

Thank you for being reasonable

See you next time

bobbee

8:28 PM

@Oblongamous not suspended?

You meant cop I guess

Victor

8:59 PM

@bobbee Both were suspended.

I am with a deep feeling that this community is very unwelcome in SE and that trying to save it and make it work is fruitless.

No matter what we will try, we will always fail, because there is no way to make it work. It is "just a joke". A very unwelcome joke.

No matters if people are posting questions and answers. Voting and the community is growing. For me, it looks like that SE considers this community as a pile of useless junk. It is only a big joke.

We can try to chat a lot, to post a lot of questions and answers on meta. Try to define and redefine a lot of scoping, rules, guidelines, whatever. Nothing will change the fact that this community is unwelcome in SE.

We are fighting and struggling between us, with mutual aggressions and accusations. But all of that is useless. I am starting to create some conspiracy theories in my mind that this was in fact planned. I am very sad.

Puzzling Meta

11:10 PM

-1

Q: Game Over - You are dead

TL;DR: Just read the question title. I am with a deep feeling that this community is very unwelcome in SE and that trying to save it and make it work is fruitless. The moderators came and tried to fix it in a single act. The result was a disaster. Fix it? Who said it was broken? A now deleted ...

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