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Thomas Klimpel
Thomas Klimpel
12:26 AM
I don't understand why you don't like the no-cloning theorem. It's just a mathematical theorem about unitary transformations of a tensor product, and certainly true as a mathematical theorem.
 
 
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vzn
vzn
2:00 AM
its called a theorem but was formulated by physicists. its very similar in spirit/ conclusion to the von neuman proof against hidden variables, noticed you cited that one yourself as an example of a "mathematical mistake" or "erroneous proof". which to me is a bit off. what is mistaken are the interpretations of that proof.
my emotion (although not negligible) is not really a factor here. no cloning thm has a logical gap. its scientifically inaccurate.
there is some ulterior motivation. there are many physical systems where lack of knowledge/ measurement "contributes" to the randomness. improved knowledge/ measurement control leads to decreased randomness. this is the essence of large swathes of engineering. you yourself have experienced it 1sthand on your job.
the church-turing thesis is not called a "theorem" and comp scientists are very careful/ upfront about that. if it were the "no-cloning thesis", would have no objections.
actually, would "wager" a guess that decreasing/ controlling randomness is your job!
 
 
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vzn
vzn
5:09 AM
a favorite line of empirical research revisited with new results/ records also via off-the-shelf SAT solvers, Optimal-Depth Sorting Networks Bundala et al
 
 
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Thomas Klimpel
Thomas Klimpel
8:33 AM
I still don't understand. The no-cloning theorem is not a meta-theorem (like Cox's theorem, the no-free-lunch theorem or von Neumann's theorem on "no hidden variables"). It's just a normal "workhorse" theorem of the theory.
 
 
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Mary Star
Mary Star
2:20 PM
Hello!!! Is there someone that can clarify something at NP-problems??
 
 
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vzn
vzn
4:19 PM
TK, you said your undergrad degree was in math right?
did you do a masters thesis?
have not heard of von neumanns thm on LHVs referred to as a "meta thm".
> By 1932, when the Hungarian-American mathematician John von Neumann claimed to have proven that the probabilistic wave equation in quantum mechanics could have no “hidden variables” (that is, missing components, such as de Broglie’s particle with its well-defined trajectory), pilot-wave theory was so poorly regarded that most physicists believed von Neumann’s proof without even reading a translation.
> More than 30 years would pass before von Neumann’s proof was shown to be false, but by then the damage was done.
huh. who exactly showed it to be "false"? how?
did you read the wikipedia entry on quantum cloning? why are there groups claiming to have done it experimentally if it is impossible theoretically?
lets see, no cloning "proved" in ~1982. so we're at ~3decades. maybe a similar revision is due? :\
Cognitive dissonance
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values. Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which...
 
Thomas Klimpel
Thomas Klimpel
4:44 PM
Nice article: “The more things we understand and can provide a physical rationale for, the more difficult it will be to defend the ‘quantum mechanics is magic’ perspective.”
Neumaier certainly also tries to fight the ‘quantum mechanics is magic’ perspective, even so his optical models don't even have hidden variables.
von Neumann's theorem can be seen as a normal theorem in probability theory, but with respect to quantum mechanics, it is a meta-theorem. It is not formulated in the language of QM, but makes statements about (the language of) QM.
As a theorem in probability theory, it proves that the deterministic system has fewer symmetries than the probabilistic one. The observables are expectation values for the probabilistic theory, and hence satisfy the superposition principle even in case that the observables don't commute. For any underlying deterministic system generating these probabilities, the observables cannot satisfy the superposition principle if they don't commute.
But this is basically something expected, i.e. any hidden variable theory is supposed to break some symmetry of the quantum system, which will only be recovered in the averaged sense. One of the strong points of probability theory is exactly that it can generate additional symmetries, and being linear is one of mathematicians favorite symmetries.
 
 
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Thomas Klimpel
Thomas Klimpel
8:59 PM
@vzn The old Germain system only had a Diplom. A Diplom was comparable to a master, i.e. the next academic grade would have been a Doktor (PhD).
And the equivalent to the master thesis was called "Diplomarbeit"...
I did it in "applied geometry", and applied geometry is still part of my daily job.
@vzn It's a short article, and it answers your question: "Though perfect quantum cloning is not possible, it is possible to perform imperfect cloning, where the copies have a non-unit fidelity. A universal cloning machine can have a fidelity as high as 5/6."
 
vzn
vzn
9:49 PM
why do they assert perfect cloning is not possible? what physical law restricts the fidelity to 5/6? isnt this itself inconsistent with the claims of the no cloning theorem? which says absolutely nothing about fidelity up to c some "magic constant"...
did the "old Germain" system switch at some time? around when?
have you ever read any kuhn?
Paradigm shift
A paradigm shift (or revolutionary science) is, according to Thomas Kuhn, in his influential book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms, within the ruling theory of science. It is in contrast to his idea of normal science. According to Kuhn, "A paradigm is what members of a scientific community, and they alone, share" (The Essential Tension, 1977). Unlike a normal scientist, Kuhn held, "a student in the humanities has constantly before him a number of competing and incommensurable solutions to these problems, solutions that he must ultimately...
to my vision, we are on the verge of a genuine kuhnian shift right at the moment. but such shifts can take very long to carry out, nearly decades almost. eg as with qm starting around 1905 with einsteins paper and not widely accepted until further experiments and nobel prizes awarded decades later.
the "strange experiments" such as experimental cloning are like tips of icebergs. or rather, multiple tips of a single iceberg. a very large one.
the wolchover article signals some major kuhnian shifting going on.
so far you have no comment on anderson/ brady ideas cited by wolchover & myself in my blog. take a look! its pivotal. & am surprised that neumaier does not seem to cite them. nor t'hooft. afaik.
its nice to see t'hooft engaging with neumaier on that theoretical physics thread. "small world/ (cyber)synchronicity"
there is an eerie similarity/ correspondence between anderson/ brady ideas & neumaier.
re wolchover
> Some enthusiasts think the fluid approach could indeed be the key to resolving the long-standing conflict between quantum mechanics and Einstein’s theory of gravity, which clash at infinitesimal scales.
that has long been my own hypothesis/ conjecture
 
Thomas Klimpel
Thomas Klimpel
10:04 PM
Yes, the "old German" system switched according to the Bologna process to an ECTS-Credits based Bachelor-Master system. The Bologna process only said that the switch has to happen before 2010, but I guess most universities had already switched before 2008. But some students might have started with Diploma in 2008, a diploma takes around 6 Years, so the last Diploma students should finish their degree soon...
We are on a Kuhnian shift, but more related to Kurzweil's singularity and increasing trust in the usefulness of computers than related to any fundamental reinterpretation of physics.
 
vzn
vzn
10:27 PM
 
 
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vzn
vzn
11:47 PM
re your thesis, what kind of applied geometry? is it online anywhere? would look at it if it were
 
Thomas Klimpel
Thomas Klimpel
But that's not really the thesis. This is an earlier project, which I will translate to english at some point.
Do you have your thesis online?
 

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