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7:48 AM
@MattChan I'm just arguing that if you target layman even just a bit, you'll get swamped by questions from them, which then makes it impossible to draw the actual experts (which is our current situation).
On the other hand, if you focus on just the experts, the laymen will probably have the good quality information they'll (eventually) need.
Besides, for people who consider walking around to be exercise, the answer to getting more fit is very simple - "start doing something, anything".
the same for people with absolutely no activity
And finally, I think there would be real value in having a Stackexchange site for those same experts, because it's usually very hard to find correct information on the internet and the SE model is excellent for identifying the people who know their stuff compared to those who don't (which is harder on a random forum or blog, if not impossible sometimes).
 
 
5 hours later…
user11126
12:43 PM
@VPeric walking isn't such a bad exercise, for years it was the only thing i did (because i didn't know how to do anything else when I was younger)
 
user11126
also a good way to get out and explore and find my way around the city and such
 
user11126
i'm starting to understand Jeff's point of view a little more now and the battle over nutrition too
 
user11126
i guess we all just have a different definition of what "fitness" is (or what we think "fitness" should be)
 
2:19 PM
@MattChan Well, sure, but I see it only as a step to something.. more.
I wouldn't want to settle at "walking" for my desired level of fitness.
 
user11126
@VPeric i hear you on that one
 
user11126
but for some other people, that may be all they want and i think we'll just have to let them be
 
/me shrugs.
 
user11126
it's similar to what i've observed in martial arts, some people don't want to be super-hardcore and get really into it
 
user11126
there's a huge cultural aspect and background for martial arts, but for some people, they don't "care" for it
 
user11126
2:27 PM
they just want to do something to stay active and keep moving
 
user11126
i don't mean "not care" as in they're being dismissive, but i mean it in the way that they're only looking for something specific that works for them
 
Actually, I don't mind people who want to do "simple" exercises or stop somewhere (I don't want to squat 3x my bodyweight either)
And we've had questions like that.
"How to get fit for a programmer?" or something like that
I actually think Jeff is confusing issues there.
We are moving to drop Nutrition, we don't want to limit the site to the "hardcore".
When he says, "Which means I need to lead a healthy lifestyle that involves some form of exercise and eating reasonably well." -- I don't like the "eating reasonably well" part.
Because eating reasonably well means "Eat lots of protein, vegetables, lower the carbs and try to be varied."
It doesn't mean "Which nut is the healthiest nut?" nor "Is melted cheese better than unmelted cheese?"
And as long as those questions are.. oh, a quarter of all of our questions, we won't be able to draw the kind of people we'd want.
(for my definition of people we want, of course)
 
user11126
i'm in the same camp as you
 
Well, we'll see what happens. I wonder when Ivo is getting back.
 
user11126
do you think that maybe we (not me and you specifically, but the site in general) are being elitist or coming off as such?
 
user11126
2:44 PM
i think the question of who we're trying to target is what caused the confusion in the first place
 
@MattChan Perhaps we are coming of as elitist.
But I think that's because our audience (on Meta) are people like... well, Jeff.
 
user11126
for a while, the problem has been "we don't have any experts" and my impression was that that was the problem that should be addressed first
 
Let me compare Jeff to my father for a second here, as I imagine they are/were in a similar position (except my father is probably older): they both want to avoid "dying prematurely" and so want to pay attention to their diet and start exercising. For a few years my father was absolutely convinced walking around half an hour a day was adequate exercise, until I made him do some pull-ups with me... fast forward a few years, he's asking me what kind of program to follow to do a muscle-up (!!)
Ok, maybe that wasn't really relevant, but I just felt so proud! :D
 
user11126
Just for the record, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of being "elitist" here. I don't want to speak for anyone else or put words into other people's mouths. I'm just trying to understand a different perspective.
 
@MattChan Yeah, attracting more actual experts should be an important goal. On the other hand, I feel that we can't do that if we have all those nutrition questions, and we can't do that unless we change the scope of the site.. which, I guess, we can't do because we aren't sure we have enough experts.
If Jeff is seriously considering closing the site (as he mentioned in a comment somewhere), then he should at least give us (the vocal minority of users) the possibility to define it as we want and see if that works instead.
 
user11126
2:58 PM
for me personally, i enjoy reading the information here to satisfy my intellectual pursuit
 
+1
 
user11126
and i get disappointed when i see questions that appear to lack any "depth" because they aren't superficially relevant to me at all
 
Yeah.
 
user11126
but you have to ask, do you do this for yourself (or others like you) or for the site in general? and i think that's where the meta question of defining the audience is coming from
 
Ok, I think I see your point now.
 
user11126
3:03 PM
it's too bad there aren't more people on meta, i know Ivo has mentioned the lack of discussion on it many times in the past
 
@MattChan Ok, I think I see your point here.
 
user11126
just my personal opinion...
 
user11126
jeff's answer had me questioning some things philosophically.... and what's frustrating is that i don't know how "fix" this problem in my head
 
user11126
i'm just rambling and nerd-raging
 
3:32 PM
@MattChan Yeah, but it's even worse when we get swamped by people not from the site, IMHO. In fact, now that I think about it, I don't think people should get the bonus 100 rep on Meta, so they can't actually vote on Meta if they don't use the site.
@MattChan Oh sure, but Jeff is just talking about the kind of site he'd want to use, we all do that.
 

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