English Language Learners

I think I heard something like this: "k w oh|uh (r) k|t m ai r|l"

Anonymous

12:28 AM

It sounds so funny :-)

And I couldn't decipher it!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ah, the (r) because it's BrE and so it wouldn't be pronounced anyway? :-)

Oh, indeed! But it sounds a lot like an "l".

Let me listen to it again...

Anonymous

I've heard that the hardest distinction to hear in English for many learners is the voicing contrast on unreleased stops in syllable codas

user116848

hello both!

Anonymous

12:30 AM

Hello!

user116848

How are you both?

@Arrowfar Hi!

I'm okay! How are you going?

Anonymous

I just realized I monopthongize I've

user116848

My favorite series "Person of Interest" is on air again for fourth season. Yay!!!

Anonymous

Yay!

12:31 AM

Hooray!

Anonymous

I haven't actually seen that show, but I heard good things about it

user116848

I am so happy! :D

user116848

I love that show!

@snailboat Probably true. Look at my confusion, I heard k|t, and g never crossed my mind!

Anonymous

I bet a native speaker would hear quackmire as quagmire anyway.

12:32 AM

LOL

Anonymous

I mean, I'm a native speaker myself, but it's hard to make good introspective judgments about phonology.

user116848

Oh, you are using this symbol: "♫". Cool!

Anonymous

It's usually easier to determine by observing another speaker :-)

Anonymous

@Arrowfar ♫〜

user116848

I got the idea too the other day! :D

user116848

12:33 AM

hehe

Anonymous

I type it with Japanese input. I type onpu, which means "musical note" (literally "sound sign")

user116848

I like this symbol. I got them from the char chart in Windows 7

Anonymous

When I type onpu, I get multiple choices: ♫ and ♬ and even ♪

Anonymous

♪ is cute

They're all cute!

user116848

12:35 AM

Yep!

Anonymous

Even ♩? :-)

I like the white-headed one even more. :)

(Does it exist?)

user116848

I got the idea from one of tchrist's comments on some SE, where in the end of his comment he wrote like he is singing "Little Indian boys..." song with these symbols. It looked great. So the got the idea from there! :D

user116848

I can't find his comment though! :D

user116848

Windows 7 Character map has all these symbols :p

12:40 AM

I remember I could read notes. I think I can't do it now. :)

user116848

Can we search for comments in any SE sites?

user116848

I mean main site comments

I think you can search the way you can do it here.

Sometimes Google is more effective.

user116848

I can't find the comment :(

in English Language & Usage, Sep 20 at 0:20, by tchrist

And a 1, and a 2, and 1, 2, 3: “♫ ⅰ little, ⅱ little, ⅲ little Indians, ⅳ little, ⅴ little, ⅵ little Indians, ⅶ little, ⅷ little, ⅸ little Indians, ⅹ little Indian boys! ♫” — tchrist 3 mins ago

I think you were looking for that one. :)

user116848

12:47 AM

@DamkerngT. Yes!! :DD

user116848

You are the Man!

user116848

@DamkerngT. How did you find it?

user116848

Please enlighten me! :D

Hehe -- I just tried your hint. I searched for "little indian" in ELU chat room.

user116848

Then how come I couldn't find it?

user116848

12:49 AM

It's okay!

user116848

So, you searched in the chat room search. I was searching on the main site search.

user116848

@DamkerngT. @snailboat Why did you guys stop talking? I mean pronunciation talk that you were having

user116848

Busy??

user116848

:(

user116848

OK See ya both!

user116848

12:59 AM

Bye!

user116848

:D

@Arrowfar Um... Probably because there is nothing much left to talk about?

See you around!

Anonymous

I'm studying

3:48 AM

well, guys are you talking about me? A little Indian boy :-)

6:52 AM

Q: Using prepositions with 'student'

11:44 AM

1

Recently, I asked a question on stack exchange music, and I was wondering wether I should us the word for,to or of. For example, I am a student to drums. I am a student of drums. I am a student for drums. Which one of those is correct? Should I use another sentence structure? Any h...

I think "a student of drums" and "a student of the drums" are both acceptable, but I like "a student of drumming" better.

@DamkerngT. how to indicate in writing that a word which is very unfamiliar?

Hmm... Doesn't "very unfamiliar" work?

A few ones that are close, but not quite, are probably "rare" or "unusual".

@DamkerngT. no, like if you said some word for example encyclopedia, and if I don't understand it, I would as "en-cy--clopedia?"

Oh, I see. That works, I think.

"en- what?" would also work, right?

11:50 AM

That, too. Just repeating the word as a question also works.

A straightforward, simple question also works: "What is 'encyclopedia'?"

BTW, do you know that in 1976 2 boys went to a beach and saw lots of water!!!

Lots of water? As in the "ocean"?

Ocean definitely has more water.

@DamkerngT. that was a joke. You're supposed to laugh! :)

Oh! Hehe.

Do you know what is McDonalds?

or to be specific, do you know what does "M" in McDonalds stand for?

11:53 AM

A place selling a specific kind of food?

I'm afraid I do not!

Well,

Oh!

they're funny :)

:-)

there are only two kinds of people. do you know them? it's really easy

12:05 PM

Us and them?

nope!

alive & dead

Phew!

Hehe

and studies have also shown that neuroscience is literally the brain studying itself :-)

Oh, right! You can't be wrong about that!

this can't be called spamming the room right?

12:09 PM

Well, ... thinking about atomizing someone or something... :-)

that something or someone is me :-)

Prolly!

what's prolly?

Try saying "probably" very quickly. :)

great invention.. wait that's already on the net

12:12 PM

Yep. :)

12:35 PM

we're fading away to ghosts...

1:43 PM

@AmitJoki They say what we don't say.

A: Let's get critical: Sep 2014 Site Self-Evaluation

2:35 PM

0

Final Results What are the viewpoint and lexical aspects of the following two "stand"? Net Score: 23 (Excellent: 23, Satisfactory: 5, Needs Improvement: 0) loud explosions "in as many minutes around noon" - I don't understand Net Score: 15 (Excellent: 17, Satisfactory: 10, Needs Improve...

2:51 PM

@hey hey, you're right :-)

@DamkerngT. the four guys haven't been atomized and are returning to earth :) 2200ce.blogspot.com/2014/10/back-to-planet-earth.html

That's good news!

Oh, you changed the font!

I like the old font better.

@DamkerngT. yeah... I'm working on getting that as it was before..

I once read it from somewhere that Sans Serif fonts are supposed to be easier to read, somehow my brain usually thinks the opposite.

yeah, I too have heard the same @DamkerngT.

Oh, maybe that idea is one of their covert operations! (Whoever they are!)

2:59 PM

@DamkerngT. what?

I mean, they might just have tried to make us believe so!

@DamkerngT. understood :)

3:15 PM

font- changed back! BBL :)

Hooray!

Q: Can you vs. Do you think you can

3:41 PM

0

Is there a right or wrong way to ask someone to do something? The other day I said to my husband, "Do you think you can fax this paper for me?" He said that was insulting and I should say "Can you fax this paper for me?" Thoughts??

meaning word-choice word-usage meaning-in-context

Isn't the tone everything?

4:06 PM

Ya it totally depends on tone

or i think in first sentence "Do you think you can fax this paper for me?" if you try to speak you will realize "you can" sounds like you are challenging someone

"Can you fax this paper for me?" Is kind of request.

Hi!

Anyone there to help?

@user62015 As always, ask away. :)

I don't think that we can use "have" with "anyone" but I have read somewhere so I am pasting the sentence in a novel: "Anyone have the pilots in sight?"

from a novel*

Ahh... In this case, you really can't use "has" there.

Okay.

Please go ahead I am listening.

4:18 PM

You can think of it as a shorten form of "(Does) anyone have the pilots in sight?"

But I could not see "Does" there?

How could I guess it?

Hmm... by getting more used to the language, probably. :)

Okay. So we can say that it was a colloquial use?

Yes.

Fine. Making sense

I accept your answer.

Thanks.

4:20 PM

People drop words that can be understood in context all the time.

You're welcome!

But that doesn't mean we can drop anything any way we like to.

There are kind of unspoken rules.

Okay. Please go ahead.

I think I can't explain it as well as I want to.

@DamkerngT. Give a try

But for the cases similar to your example, I think we can say that auxiliary verbs can be dropped in simple questions.

Okay.

I understood.

4:23 PM

"You want this?" <-- "Do you want this?"

"He want that?" <-- "Does he want that?"

I also heard that we should not use the helping word "will" when we are using if conditions. For example: If you come late your father will shout at you. But somewhere I also see some writers use: If you will come late your father will shout at you. I prefer one example what do you suggest?

I understood your point and I appreciate it a lot.

I've answered a similar question once on ELL.

Basically, it's non-standard.

Okay.

So, it's not recommended for non-native speakers.

> ell.stackexchange.com/questions/14279/…

So I should be struck with first one.

4:27 PM

Other answers in that question are great, too.

nods -- Yes.

Thanks for the link. I appreciate it.

Thanks. I will check the link. See you later you have been great.

Bye for now.

See you around!

You got be back....:)

Welcome back!

I have been reading "The Bridge Across Forever" I read a sentence which is a little bit odd as per my point of view but you can make me understand it: "we have sold nearly everything he owns to make the down payment!." But I think it should have been:"we have sold nearly everything he owned to make the down payment!."

As the property she was talking about that property was sold out.

And he had that property so It should have been he owned.

But your feedback on it would be appreciate.

appreciated*

4:42 PM

Your argument makes sense. I think this is a great question for the main site.

FWIW, I accept both versions.

Okay.

How is it right?

Okay. If you want me to post it on this website I can?

I think it's because of the present perfect tense. It somehow makes me think of the present and the past at the same time.

@user62015 Sure. I do think it's a great question.

Okay. I agree with you but I would opt which I have suggested.

Thanks.

My pleasure! I can't wait to see what others are gonna say about this "owns". :-)

Thanks.

I agree.

6:23 PM

@user62015 Both are correct. But I think @snailboat will explain you best.

Thanks.

Is there any news about ELL graduating?

Because I think is doing excellent work according to Area51.

I am asking because chemistry S.E. is graduating soon

Last I heard, we are in the queue.

user116848

6:39 PM

@DamkerngT. hi Damk.

user116848

I have a grammar question

user116848

> Last I heard, we are in the queue.

user116848

It looks good but if we say it like:

user116848

> Last I heard, we were in the queue.

user116848

Would it mean the same? It is that optional backshift here, right?

Anonymous

6:44 PM

@DamkerngT. "If you'll come late your father will shout at you" makes it the condition volitional, which is nonsensical in this example. Why would I want to be rewarded for deciding to come late by having my father shout at me?

Anonymous

So it's not something people would say, but I do think it's grammatical with a different meaning

Anonymous

It just doesn't make much sense

Anonymous

@user62015 Well, he still owns some stuff. It's not all gone yet :-)

Okay. It could be reasons.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar They both seem okay.

A: We have sold nearly everything he owns to make the down payment!

6:46 PM

It could be reason*

user116848

@snailboat I see, okay. Thanks! And hi snail :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, this is conversational deletion again: "Do you want this?" "~~Does~~ he want that?"

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. The problem, though, is that learners think will is used whenever something is in the future. So they use will here thinking it makes sense because it's a futurive use

Anonymous

But that's a misunderstanding of how will works

Anonymous

Will only has non-futurive meanings in that context

Anonymous

6:50 PM

Hello

user116848

I answered :-)

user116848

Here:

user116848

0

Yes, your version: "We have sold nearly everything he owned to make the down payment!" seems good. But I'd say that the first version with "owns" is not wrong either because we are saying the word "nearly" which means "not everything". So the first version is okay too in this case.

Anonymous

Seems fair

user116848

yay!

Anonymous

7:00 PM

People definitely say it both ways

Anonymous

I will upvote it later

user116848

Yeah sure. I didn't answer for the upvotes btw :-)

user116848

Just felt like helping :-)

user116848

Yes, I could have answered it here too. My bad!

Anonymous

Why are you apologizing?

7:04 PM

because he's a nice guy :)

user116848

Oh, this is me talking :-) Not apologizing :-)

Anonymous

Well, yes, but he didn't do anything wrong.

Anonymous

"My bad" is an apology

Anonymous

Hey, it's in dictionaries now! :-)

Anonymous

oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/my-bad

Anonymous

7:07 PM

collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/my-bad

user116848

I see :-)

would "me bad" be wrong?

Anonymous

In my dialect, yes.

@snailboat "If you will come late" sounds a bit odd, compared to "If you will follow me".

Anonymous

I don't know if anyone says "me bad". It sounds like a mixture of two different dialects to my ear.

7:08 PM

which two?

@Arrowfar I just assumed, and I think I assumed correctly, that we're still in the queue. In this case, saying we were in the queue sounds a little weird to me, and will force me to think of it as a backshift.

Anonymous

Dialects that say "my bad" (chiefly American?) and dialects which use the possessive determiner "me" (chiefly Au/NZ/UK?)

so maybe Canadian?

Anonymous

Canadian English is not a mixture of US and UK English

orly?

Anonymous

7:11 PM

Rly.

please elaborate

Y

Anonymous

North American English is a continuum of dialects including US and Canadian English, which are not terribly distinct from one another

Anonymous

A lot of dialectal differences cross the US-CA border

Anonymous

Canadian raising, final eh, and so forth are quite common in the US

Anonymous

7:14 PM

There are small differences between US and CA English

Anonymous

Canadian Shift

The Canadian Shift is a linguistic vowel shift found in Canadian English. It was first described by Clarke, Elms and Youssef in 1995, based on impressionistic analysis. The shift involves the front lax vowels /æ/ (the short-a of trap), /ɛ/ (the short-e of dress), and /ɪ/ (the short-i of kit). It is triggered by the cot–caught merger: /ɒ/ (as in cot) and /ɔ/ (as in caught) merge as [ɒ], a low back rounded vowel. As each space opens up, the next vowel along moves into it. Thus, the short a /æ/ retracts from a near-low front position to a low central position, with a quality similar to the vowel heard...

Anonymous

But an American speaker can talk to a Canadian speaker and have no idea that they're talking to someone from Canada

Anonymous

The same is entirely untrue for an American speaker talking to someone from the UK

unless they are from Quebec

Anonymous

Quebec English is also not a mixture of US and UK English

Anonymous

7:18 PM

I suppose that misconception might have come about due to spelling

Anonymous

Canadian English spelling is distinctive, patterened after AmE spelling with some influences from BrE spelling

Anonymous

And there are a few bits of pronunciation that are from BrE

Anonymous

Like zed instead of zee for Z

I used to pronounce Z as "saed" because I couldn't pronounce "zee".

Anonymous

But I think people really exaggerate the differences between US English and Canadian English

7:20 PM

Oh, I have a little survey for all of us here: do you cross your 7?

Anonymous

When I talk to my friends from Canada or go to Canada, it doesn't really feel different from talking to Americans in the US

Anonymous

Oh! I used to do that when I was younger

But not anymore? What changed your mind?

Anonymous

Um, I didn't change my mind :-)

Anonymous

I just forgot about it, I suppose

7:22 PM

Oh!

Anonymous

Maybe I'll start crossing them again!

:-)

I considered it, but never started actually doing it :)

Ahh :)

Do you mind if I take your survey to the math room?

7:24 PM

That would be a great honor for me!

I remember that I used to cross my Z's too.

Anonymous

Me too

I still do.

so they don't look like a "2"

2z=y

2Z=2

Many of my 2's look quite curvy, sort of like a reversed S!

My current Z's are a bit sharp at corners.

Anonymous

Yeah, that's a good reason.

@IceBoy z = 1, y = 2

Anonymous

7:33 PM

When I was little, my 2s looked like Zs.

@DamkerngT. :D

Hee

I was shocked when I saw that most of European people I worked with wrote their 1s with a really long upward stroke (then a down stroke, like a 1 is supposed to be).

in English Language & Usage, 8 mins ago, by Andrew Leach

Me too. But not 7. 1 is either nude or seriffed top and bottom to differentiate from 7.

The naked ones!

A one without seriffing.

Anonymous

7:47 PM

@DamkerngT. My 1s are a vertical stroke from bottom to top

without a seriff^

nods

"1" is with, " | " without

When the up-seriff is long, the 1 will look really like a capital A without the last stroke.

It will also look a lot like 7.

Anonymous

8:08 PM

Serif has only one 'f'

Oops

Anonymous

Andrew Leach presumably doubled the 'f' because he verbed it and inflected it with -ed

Anonymous

Your seriffing is okay for the same reason

That explains why I felt weird spelling it with double f!

Anonymous

8:27 PM

Most people know the term sans serif from picking fonts on computers

Anonymous

I'm not sure everyone knows what a serif is, though

I believe that they are those cute tiny hands on those ends and corners of characters.