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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 23:00

12:00 AM
there is a separate review area for the meta site
i think
i went to the meta and clicked review and there were only close vote, reopen votes an suggested edits so i guessed it was a separate one
 
ah yes
 
12:14 AM
by the way i'm sortof annoyed that after you get above 1000 rep you don't get 2 rep for editing
it's so annoying i have 1198 and it's so close to 1200 but i can't help it...
 
heh
ask a question, accept an answer :P
 
well, that still takes longer that editing.
 
12:26 AM
@proudhaskeller regarding "what an interesting rule". have you seen the GIF I added after your comment? I think the shapes it settles into is even more interesting (and that it settles into shapes at all while there are still dynamics in the interior)
I've also found some other interesting ones. e.g. [23456,345]has some bands that widen, split, widen, merge, widen, split, widen, split... and this for a very irregular band shape. I think it might be interesting to study this in isolation:
 
in The Bridge, 16 mins ago, by Doorknob
Hey, not that many people will care, but... the Nethack dev team just confirmed that there will be a next version of Nethack. This is the first time they've said anything for almost 11 years (that wasn't just a minor thing about porting to a different platform or something)! :D :D :D
^ I don't think anybody in here plays Nethack, but maybe some of you do :P
 
@Doorknob why is the arqade chat room called the bridge?
because their logo/icon is a spaceship?
 
because of the logo, I guess
 
lllllaaaame
 
12:46 AM
@MartinBüttner I did see the gif
 
Does the name of this chat have any meaning?
 
@August maybe? it sounds cool anyways
 
@August The Nineteenth Hole is a common bar/restaurant name at or affiliated with a golf course. There also happen to be 19 bytes in the title.
 
@algorithmshark Ah, cool.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:13 AM
-1
Q: matplotlib animations: How to animate point colors?

Soham ChowdhuryI have some existing code, copied almost verbatim from a tutorial blog post. It's a simulation of particle collisions in a box. I'd like each particle to change color in a sort of heatmap-like way: it becomes redder/warmer when it collides with another particle and cooler when it doesn't during t...

Can any one of you help?
 
 
4 hours later…
6:38 AM
@August For the history of the chat name: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/1005/…
 
 
3 hours later…
9:28 AM
argh, people suggesting edits to question which involve golfing them, I never know what to do, and in this case there is a lot of golfable stuff in the 'golfed' code
 
10:12 AM
 
@MartinBüttner thanks, I usually just skip everything, I didn't realise there was policy on this matter
 
I usually write a corresponding reject reason to inform the editor, along the lines of "Golfing improvements should be suggested in comments for the answerer to review."
 
sounds good
 
10:45 AM
today is the day Timtech wanted us to graduate:
23
Q: Let's commit to graduate

TimtechIt's already been 1,082 days in beta, and I'd like to see our site graduating sometime in the near future. James Khoury proposed aiming for the 1,337th day since beta started, and I like that idea, especially since it's only in 255 days. I'd suggest increasing the voting going around so our us...

 
11:44 AM
@MartinBüttner I use the GIMP, but I've seen gifsicle recommended.
 
@PeterTaylor yeah, I tried a Windows port of gifsicle and that didn't work
can't be bothered to get GIMP now, but thanks! :)
 
11:57 AM
the programming language proposal just reached the commitment phase:
6
Programming Language Theory

Proposed Q&A site for people who wish to influence and foster interest, in the development of new programming languages. For programming language theory enthusiasts and computer science students who wish to learn more about the subject or have their doubts elucidated.

Currently in commitment.

 
12:57 PM
I'm not sure I understand the proposal. What type of questions are there that wouldn't be accepted in one of the other programming or compsci stacks?
 
@MartinBüttner That's pretty sweet. I don't care who uses the block of dirt in their art lol
 
@Geobits well overlap is usually not a problem if the topic could use a dedicated site to gather some expertise
 
@Martin I get that some overlap is fine, but it seems like the entire site would be overlap with 2-3 others. I'm just not sure I see the need. Then again, maybe I'm not the target audience.
 
1:20 PM
I want to go post on Parenting meta: Should we ban people younger than 25 from answering questions? Wtf do they know about parenting?
 
Out of curiosity, at what age do you think people start having kids? You live in Texas, right? :P
 
Or even better, when a question gets closed, it should say "This question has been closed. You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr."
 
Hardee's
 
16. But they are shitty parents until 25 at least.
Because only an irresponsible person would have kids at 16.
I admit that I know one person who had a child at 19. He and his wife are responsible people, but they are the exception to the rule.
But I mostly want to post it just to see how people react
 
So we should probably change the age for other sites to higher than 13. I mean, they're probably not experts (as in "expert answers") until far past then, right?
 
1:26 PM
I bet almost everyone posting on that site is under 40
 
But yes, the reactions would be fun :D
At under 40, I'm willing to say I'm a decent parent ;)
 
I'm sure you are
But I think there's a difference between being a good parent and teaching others to be a good parent
Being a grandparent puts you through that experience
 
Those who can, do. Those who can't....
 
More crap on Board and Card Games gets that will never get closed: boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/19101/6692
"Recommend a game for [...]"
Omg I love the one answer though. Ultimate Werewolf. Has anyone here played before?
 
I run into this far too often:
 
1:31 PM
I have been wondering for ages what the correct term was. "Vote down"
 
I thought it was "backhand".
 
Does backhanding someone "reduce their cumulative tally"?
 
Of dignity? Yes.
 
I'm using "reduce the cumulative tally" from now on.
Don't care how long it takes to type
My friends and I got so bored of saying "I'm bored" during our freshman year that we came up with "lacking diversions"
 
How about "attempt to prevent subsequent users from posting an answer" for voting to close?
Or obviously atpsufpaa for short.
 
1:35 PM
Needs some refining
4-5 words would be nice
"attempt to prevent" probably has a single word
"posting and answer" probably does too
 
Refined Acronyms Can't Indicate Some Meanings
 
Impede future respondents?
 
"impede future user interaction" hits the 4-word mark.
 
You can comment and reopen closed questions though
I also like subsequent better
impede subsequent something
 
agree, subsequent > future
solution development?
 
1:40 PM
How is it that I can create secure web pages that pull data from sql and display it in a pretty table, but I can't delete this damn check box in Excel?
 
Because Excel is the devil.
 
I can't even right click on it to get it's properties.
 
Well, maybe not "The Devil", but a minor demon at the very least.
 
Shiny new picture for Mr. Chowdhury
Ridiculous that I had to read that. If you ever build a control that isn't deleted by the delete key, you deserve a swift kick in the balls.
2
 
@Rainbolt me?
 
1:53 PM
@SohamChowdhury Yes.
 
I don't get it.
Oh, my profile pic, you mean.
I thought it was somehow related to the link.
 
Nonono. You don't deserve a swift kick in the balls (probably)
I just noticed you had a new avatar, and then I went on ranting about my work problems :)
 
All my controls are deletable with the delete key.
Sometimes they anticipate your pressing it and delete themselves.
 
Can I delete controls by sheer force of will?
I have meetings for like five hours. Such a nice break from programming. You guys have a nice day!
 
2:32 PM
Haha check out this revision history: boardgames.stackexchange.com/posts/19100/revisions
 
gone now :/
 
I think most of us don't have the ability to see deleted posts on BCG.
 
Oh I see.
Real hex spells at realspellcasting.com

Their witches had cast a couple of spells for me and I got full results within 3 months from these witches spell castings.
(It was on a Magic: the Gathering question)
And this awesome English on SO:
String result
//Assignation to result
Assignation - noun - an appointment to meet someone in secret, typically one made by lovers.
 
Poe's Law is a bitch sometimes. snopes.com/politics/religion/harrypotter.asp
 
This: Do you want your little ones to read books; and they want to read the Harry Potter Books; but you do not want them to turn into witches? Well-this is the story for you!
 
2:46 PM
My son was able to levitate things after simply watching the first HP movie. It's scary how fast the influence of wizardry sets in.
 
I finished the last book in 2007, and I've been using wingardium leviosa to bring me my drink from the other side of the room ever since.
 
I did too, but my wand broke. Now I'm afraid to use it for most things. Should probably go see if Ollivander's is up and running.
 
I read all seven books thinking Hermione was pronounced "HERR - MOYN"
Despite it being spelled out in the first book
When I read, there's like a little voice inside my head that starts up after a few pages. And that little voice was being heavily impeded by "HERR-MY-OH-KNEE"
 
>Hagrid laughed wisely. "Evolution is a fairytale. You don't really believe that, do you?"

"Yes, I do!" Aunt Petunia screeched.

"Well then prove it!"

Aunt Petunia could only stare at him; and her big mouth hung open dumbly. Here she thought she was so educated; and always demanded that Christians prove what they believed in; but she couldn't even prove her own religion. It was then that Harry knew who the smart one here was!
 
@Geobits Have you ever read the Bible? It's actually better than reading a lot of the garbage most Christians write. I really enjoyed reading it.
Back to meetings :-/
 
2:58 PM
Yea, I've read it a few times. It's not a bad book, all in all. Some good moral stories (others seem questionable in a modern light) and parables. Literal interpretations make me sad, though.
Wow. Best description of Dumbledore ever:
> He was dressed respectably in sturdy, manly jeans and a red, white; and blue plaid shirt over which a few virile tresses were visible; and a pair of admirable, brown cowboy boots.
 
@Geobits is that really from the books?
 
ouch.
 
The author has a very strange view on semicolon usage, in addition to whatever else may be going on.
 
that's painful even if we ignore the gross abuse of the term "prove"
 
3:05 PM
Oh, well the first one was Chapter 1, where Hagrid saves Harry from the evil Aunt Petunia, career woman and reader of Dawkins.
 
oh, sorry, missed the second one completely
 
It's like a train wreck. I can't look away.
 
did the boiler explode? must be a steam locomotive if it's about Harry Potter
 
Not yet. Hopefully soon.
 
I recommend this picture of a wolf if you need a visual distraction wolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/wcs_9_5_14AD-1024x680.jpg his name is Aidan
 
3:09 PM
That's not nearly as distracting as seeing Ronald a Slytherin (standin for Catholic it seems) and Draco a Ravenclaw (no idea what they're supposed to be).
But a nice pic anyway. I had a half-wolf who looked just like that but basically all white.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:12 PM
I accidentally nuked my zsh config. All of it.
 
4:24 PM
@SohamChowdhury When I delete things, instead of actually deleting them like I commanded my computer to do, my files are automatically compressed and stored inside of a little trash can.
 
Ask your rm to marry me, right now.
 
Was any consensus ever made about this question : meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/2044/… ?
I know its a non-issue and its due to the fact that PPCG is not a "ask your issue and get it resolved" site
But still, if we want to get it out of the beta tag, we need 15 questions per day
 
Serious question: What benefit is there to graduating the site from beta?
 
dunno
 
@Optimizer If a consensus is ever made about "How do we attract more questions", then that's basically the same as saying "We have reached a point where we can no longer improve."
 
4:31 PM
@MartinBüttner I don't believe I've made any significant contribution to any of the domino problems or solutions.
@VisualMelon did I improve your domino solution? I don't remember doing so
 
@Sparr I don't recall your doing so, which one?
 
@Rainbolt I disagree about that statement. attracting more questions is an open ended question, but the particular question that I linked is more about getting more so that we graduate out of beta
 
@VisualMelon no idea. @MartinBüttner asked me, and I don't remember doing so.
 
@Optimizer Where does it say anything about beta in that question? I might have missed it, but...
 
@Optimizer SE admins have chimed in to say that there are no strict criteria for getting out of beta, and that meeting the known numerical criteria will almost certainly not be enough.
 
4:33 PM
@Sparr oh, yes, you provided the compressed gif
 
@VisualMelon oh, that!
 
errr, not compressed
what is the right word?
 
compressed is a right word
optimized also works
 
well, you changed what it did...
optimized probably fits better
 
de-duplicating data, with metadata to reproduce it, is a form of lossless compression
 
4:34 PM
@Geobits @Rainbolt Ah, okay the question does not say that. but my POV is that only.
@Sparr so meeting 15 questions /day is not enough ?
 
@Optimizer Why worry about getting out of beta when you admitted you don't know if it has any benefits?
 
@Optimizer correct
 
@Geobits its called wondering
 
@MartinBüttner I used gifsicle to optimize the domino gif. There are dozens of programs that can do so. The major improvement is making the frame dimensions smaller. A weak gif optimizer will see 2 adjacent pixels change and produce a frame and produce a frame that has N-2 transparent pixels and 2 new pixels. A good optimizer will actually change the frame size to 1x2 pixels with an offset.
 
Personally, I wonder why the site is still in beta, regardless of the metrics. SE uses strange criteria.
It's over 3 years old, has had relatively constant activity, and it's obviously its own thing (not significant overlap with other sites).
 
4:37 PM
I have 666 rep now. Next stop: 1337.
 
@Geobits We don't have any 20k users. That means that answer deletion would always require a moderator.
 
Don't we have 23K users ?
 
@Optimizer No, we don't. Howard has most rep here on PPCG, and he has 19.6k.
 
@ProgramFOX That doesn't seem like a big issue. Home Improvement, for example, has only a single 20k user who isn't also a mod.
 
4:39 PM
oh err
I read the sentence wrongly
and thought u did a grammatical mistake
:P
 
Ask Patents has nobody over 10k.
 
home improvements has 3 20K+ users
from that link
 
@Optimizer Lol, I understand what you mean :D
@Geobits Ask Patents is special.
 
@Optimizer Two of them are mods, so "delete without a mod" doesn't really apply to them if that's the reason.
 
36
Q: What is "Ask Patents" and why is it secret?

mindcorrosiveLooks like our SE overlords are about to launch a new Stack Exchange site - Ask Patents. I've been hinted at its existence by a user who committed to the (now closed) Software Law proposal on Area 51. Did I miss the memo or something? There's no site entry in Area51, and doubly suspicious ...

@Geobits ^
 
4:43 PM
Drupal Answers similarly has only one 20k+ non-mod.
If that's the justification for keeping it beta, then I assume it will graduate as soon as Howard hits 20k?
 
we should find all his answers and upvote them :P
 
@Geobits I have no idea. Perhaps 20k-rep users is not related, it was just a potential issue.
 
Or not. Again, I don't really see any benefit to graduating.
 
@Geobits Same here, but I thought you did because you asked that question :P
 
That was just curiosity. It doesn't matter to me at all. The only real difference I'd see is a new logo/layout and a couple lost privileges (as long as I can still VTC I'm fine).
 
4:48 PM
Indeed, so I'm happy that I got 3k before PPCG graduated.
 
5:04 PM
graduated?
 
@Sparr Didn't you hear? We're graduating on Oct 1.
2
 
@Sparr Well, it didn't, I had to use another verb conjugation.
 
Anyone remember the last weird email I got from FreeThCone@gmail.com? I just got another:
Thanks to your support, like a great phoenix, our brother has risen from the ashes of subjugation.  This marks the beginning of the the era of cone v2.0!  We are all so busy in our day to day lives.  The cone (Th Cone) is a reminder for us to stop, slow down and/or use caution and recognize the wonders around us.



Stand tall, Cone!  Stand strong...

Feedback from cone supporters:

The cone has Paul.
Paul has the cone.
 
@Geobits why all the talk now about requirements to get out of beta, then?
I don't really play the rep game. I just use the site, and rep happens
 
Yea, sorry. We're not graduating. I'm going to assume from now on that Oct 1 is the southern hemisphere's April Fool's Day.
 
5:13 PM
@Sparr I play the rep game. You know why? Because if I write a good answer, people are more likely to upvote it.
 
@Rainbolt that's not really what I meant
writing a good answer is normal usage
 
In what way would someone game the system for reputation that isn't considered normal usage?
 
Both terms are subjective, so...
 
@Rainbolt submitting a short/weak answer quickly, then editing better info in later, to get the FGITW benefit
 
What I consider normal usage might be rep gaming to others.
How's that (practically) different than golfing code down in edits?
 
5:19 PM
@Geobits you, presumably, didn't already know the better golfed solution when you submitted.
I guess, in general, if "get rep" is ever the reason you do something, that's meta.
I answer questions because I want people to have the answer to their questions.
 
@Sparr Who is getting tons of upvotes for a weak answer?
 
I ask questions because I want to get them answered.
 
I'd argue that if it got tons of upvotes, it wasn't weak.
 
@Rainbolt the first submitter to almost any popularity contest. there was a meta post on the FGITW effect recently
 
@Rainbolt Some koth/popcons disagree with that.
 
5:20 PM
ditto koth
I frequently hear in here "I need to _____ because ____ rep"
 
Well, PPCG and its challenges are something of an exception to the typical Stack Exchange voting behavior
 
any statement of that form is rep gaming
 
@Sparr I need to get 125 plus some spare to go on a DV rampage at Parenting, but I generally don't hear too much about rep in here.
 
I'm not sure I've ever seen a statement of that form in here actually
 
Less than other stacks for sure.
 
5:22 PM
I've seen PLENTY of people here who are at X999 rep go take specific actions on the site to get X000
 
That's just for the pretty screenshots, though :D
 
Ok, but that's completely different
 
That's not gaming the system to actually gain rep for rep's sake.
 
rather than let their rep "naturally" jump to X009 as it's most likely to on its own
 
That has more to do with liking pretty numbers than a greed for rep. I've even seen someone ask for a downvote just to make a specific number appear
 
5:23 PM
@Geobits I didn't say just gain.
if I couldn't see my rep by default, I wouldn't turn it on
 
Right, but your example of FGITW have nothing to do with that totally different sort of gaming, so it's hard to compare the two.
 
I hate it when people say "have nothing to do" or "have nothing in common"
 
Do you have another phrase you prefer I use? It will mean the same.
 
what they have to do with each other is they are both actions being taken with the goal of manipulating rep
 
Let me put it in simpler terms for you then, so you can stop using the word "hate". One is motivated by greed. The other is motivated by a fascination with nice numbers.
 
5:25 PM
getting a precise amount of rep, or more rep than would be gotten through normal usage
 
The system is built on gamification for a reason. Rep as a motivator is absolutely normal usage.
 
rep as a motivator is a weak fix for a problem with Q&A sites
 
@Sparr When you ask and answer questions in this chat, do you include references, correct grammar, clarity, easy to Google terminology, and stuff like that?
 
you're asking why I'm not as thorough here as on SE questions? because here is ephemeral.
not because here is repless
 
Caveman terms please :(
 
5:28 PM
I give just as good answers on repless Q&A forums as I do on SE
 
Oh... "rep-less". I got it lol
 
I disagree that it's a weak fix. It's a smart use of psychology IMO. Unless you give some motivation (however meaningless in reality), there will be far fewer users volunteering their time.
Rep is something that has no actual value, and can be given away for free for all time by the network. There's no better solution if it works (and it obviously does).
 
@Sparr What exactly is "rep as a motivator" a weak fix for?
What was the original problem that was being fixed?
And how sure are you that rep was introduced to fix that problem?
I mean, I could say that band-aids are a weak fix for broken bones. That doesn't mean a lot to anyone.
 
I should probably see a doctor about my leg then.
 
I can appreciate Sparr's sentiment, I'd like to think that rep doesn't motivate me beyond it giving me sensible privileges, but it's pervasive nature makes everything feel superficial
 
5:37 PM
@Rainbolt it's a fix for not getting enough or high enough quality submissions. Jeff Atwood has written at length on the subject, and it was definitely intentional.
 
I think it was a fix for quantity of submissions, not quality. I don't see a direct connection between quality and extrinsic motivation.
In fact, everything I can find on the Internet says that extrinsic motivation decreases quality.
This is taken out of context: when a typical person is offered extrinsic motivation, the person doesn't suddenly split into two people. On Stack Overflow, the extrinsic motivation causes the number of people involved to grow larger.
So while extrinsic motivation may negatively effect a static group of people, that doesn't apply to a non-static groups.
Another one (they get more and more creepy the more I get):
“I, a cone wait here.
Where will I be perched today?
Orange majesty.”
 
5:55 PM
so, that's my view on rep motivation in general
but "more rep is good" is a relatively forgivable motivation
FGITW abuse is my only real complaint about people who prioritize rep in that way
 
My view is similar to charity: While someone may be motivated to donate money to charity for selfish reasons (taxes, etc), that doesn't decrease the value of giving. It may cause you to dislike the person, but the contribution isn't really affected.
 
I still don't understand FGITW. If the first answer was bad, I don't understand how it got upvotes. If it got upvotes, then it wasn't bad.
There's some contradiction there that I can't process
 
@Rainbolt Simplisticly, more views = higher chance of upvotes.
Once it gets a couple votes up, it stays higher in the list, so it gets viewed more. Feedback ensues.
 
Well maybe the simplistic answer was the best one. (I know that I used the word simplistic in a different context)
A lot of people add complexity to an answer that was already pretty good
 
Definitely true in some cases, and not in others. It's not a simple "early/simple answers suck more" thing.
FGITW here on PPCG has different issues here than on SO or more "typical" QA sites anyway.
 
6:00 PM
I don't consider PPCG in nearly anything we talk about, unless it's directly related to PPCG.
 
That seems like an odd stance for the PPCG chatroom :P
 
Oh I just had an idea!
 
Your block of dirt needs a light bulb floating above it.
 
We should turn every challenge into a Jeopardy question. Instead of "The challenge is to do X in Y. Shortest answer wins." we should write "What is the shortest way to do X in Y?"
That way, we can tell everyone that we follow Stack Exchange standards in a weird roundabout way.
 
But... in Jeopardy the questions are answers. The question isn't a question at all.
 
6:03 PM
Right. Our questions are questions either. That's why I referenced Jeopardy...
 
But turning them Jeopardy style means our answers would be in the form of "What is the...?"
Which would be backward from SE, not more like it.
 
Ok fine screw Jeopardy since you won't let me have it that way.
 
@Rainbolt If everyone was required to either upvote or downvote every post they saw, AND downvotes didn't cost rep, then FGITW would be a lot less prevalent, because those early "not good" posts would get a lot more downvotes.
downvotes costing rep is another part of rep motivation that really bothers me
that cost is meant to fix abusive downvoting
but it gives a disincentive to legitimate downvoting
 
Do people actually take the -1 into consideration when downvoting? (serious question)
 
we ALREADY don't downvote enough, but people who see the -1 rep and stop doing it make it worse
 
6:05 PM
@Sparr I disagree. If everyone was required to up or downvote, then the early answers would get even more upvotes.
 
@Geobits someone with 101 rep does, even if they don't know it. they only get to downvote once.
 
It would simply exaggerate the current situation, not reverse it.
 
Well, 125, but I see your point.
 
Also, early answers stand alone. There's nothing to compare them to. SOME answer is better than NO answer.
 
Which really just counters the point you made 10 seconds ago?
 
6:06 PM
also, early votes come before "this answer doesn't work" comments
no, it doesn't counter my point
a randomly selected user is going to upvote 2 out of 10 answers.
ideally, that would be the best two, by some criteria
(different criteria by user is fine)
but the FGITW problem is that most users only can vote for earlier answers, so they only do vote for those
 
But your conclusion that, if forced to vote, users would be more likely to downvote, is not based on anything.
@Sparr Do you think the author that posted the answer knew it didn't work, but posted it anyway because of the rep system?
Or that, if the reputation system was abolished, people would more often double-check their code before posting it?
 
6:31 PM
Applescript cracks me up sometimes
I was looking around for different modes of rounding in various languages and found this
`as taught in school`
Rounds to the nearest integer; .5 cases are rounded away from zero. This matches the rules commonly taught in elementary mathematics classes.
 
@Rainbolt err, are we talking about an answer that didn't work? I've lost track
 
25 mins ago, by Rainbolt
@Sparr Do you think the author that posted the answer knew it didn't work, but posted it anyway because of the rep system?
And in the directly following comment from me, "double check" means "double check that it works"
Ugh. I lifted yesterday for the first time in a while, and I can hardly scratch my head right now.
 
6:47 PM
For me it's swimming. First time in a while results in near-useless shoulders.
 
@Geobits If your shoulders hurt a lot, you might be doing it wrong. Your shoulders move almost no water.
Unless you swim feet first, then I could see shoulders doing some work
My chest, stomach, and groin hurt the most.
 
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